They are manipulating the Bitcoin price throught ponzi-paper money scheme

metenjean

full member

Activity: 854

Merit: 140

This is the truth, when the physical market is being converted into future market, everyone can buy and sell their portfolio without being controlled by real physical market supply and demand. You just need to invest in the market with paper money and you don't even need to care whether there are stocks for gold or silver, everyone with huge amount of investment can control the market and in this case the government might be 1 of them.

Future market allows people to use margin and leverage to add more than they can chew, and you can do more with that kind of portfolio. You don't need to own bitcoin, you just need to own dollar and with leverage in future market, you can get 1:100 or even more leverage to short against everyone.

Quote from: Beerwizzard on March 18, 2018, 09:16:29 PM

In this case people had too many uranium on too high price, the dump was logical.

I don't think people can dump uranium anytime like they sold starbucks anywhere, uranium used mainly for nuclear power and we all know how many countries that used nuclear power. Its more like US government tried to control the market with futures market where they keep printing paper money and that is why US debt increasing more and more every year.

Hydrogen

legendary

Activity: 2562

Merit: 1441

Good post. I have to say I dislike this new age tendency where some are labeled "conspiracy theorists" for displaying independent thought and voicing their own opinions--attempting to think for themselves while those who blindly believe every untrue thing the media says are labeled "rational" for making zero effort to be skeptical of or question anything. Society is not headed in a good direction when blind faith in a church, religion or the mainstream media becomes a status quo precedent.

On a site note, some crypto currency exchanges charge no commission on buy or sell orders. There is speculation this enables price manipulation as it may empower traders to buy and sell their own holdings without the efficiency losses which may normally make this type of practice unfeasible in higher volume trading environments.

I think there is accuracy to notions of the media attacking bitcoin in order to drive the price down. The question is why. Do banks want to buy up a controlling interest in bitcoin. Do they end to defame and devalue it in order to indirectly destroy notions of concepts such as decentralization and limited supply? Whatever their end goal is remains unknown as far as I know.

audaciousbeing

hero member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 569

Even though times without number I try to undermine the effect of group of people in determining the price of bitcoin, its hard to wave this expository disclosure while others might make it seems like a conspiracy theory without any basis, it does not mean it should be subjected to thought provoking discussion as several happenings point to that direction.

When the CME started, there was noise all over about how its going to make the price soar, how its going to be acceptable by huge number of people, confidence and trust increasing etc. My own thought was just that, it would make bitcoin serve more as a ponzi because people would start pursuing the price that they bank their money on but unfortunately, instead of price increasing as being purported, it is the reverse we are seeing. This is even a fact that the controllers of the economy will always have their ways because they have the funds to make it happen.

Our consolation is that their plans are failing. It might take a while but it will surely fail.

EthanB

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 336

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 18, 2018, 08:44:17 PM

The powers that be are manipulating Bitcoin suppressing it's price since they can print as much fiat as needed to keep it down. Their goal is to frustrate potential buyers through this and get holders to dump, triggering avalanches through media FUD as well:

The hope: Bitcoin is different to any other asset they've had to deal with in the past. This is a war of epic proportions at play as we speak. Buy the dip, long term they can't win. Let them keep printing money, see what happens.

Before I got to the last couple sentences of your post I was going to talk about how long-term they are a playing a losing game. Year after year there is more unrest and distrust towards governments, especially larger globalist/corportocracy governments. Fiat currencies are becoming more and more noticeably artificial and insufficient. They can print money all they'd like and essentially inflate themselves out of usefulness. HODLers are not going to get scared now, they've just been through too much and most of them are actually informed. Media FUD will do nothing except for keep shaky legged investors away from early adoptions, which is fine by me.

BillyBobZorton

legendary

Activity: 1204

Merit: 1028

Quote from: Beerwizzard on March 19, 2018, 12:24:45 AM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 18, 2018, 09:51:50 PM

What are things measured against? fiat. Who has the money printers? the powers that be. Then by this basic premise, how isn't every manipulated and keep under control? they can issue futures at any rates, pump and dump at will... who cares? they print the money.

With Bitcoin, since everything is mathematically correct and open source and limited in amount, they can't win, only become bigger players by hoarding, and that is what they are doing, they are taking away people's coins and hoarding them.

First of all the money care value. So printing money can't be totaly uncontrolled or the currency will worth nothing like it happens in Venezuela. The amount of printed money and gov expences is a pretty clear process and it is hard to secretely manipulate it.
In case with Bitcoin futures they were settled in USD (what makes them look more like a gambling) and imho they were pretty unpopular. They did not created any FUD that may bring the price down. The market reaction on JP Morgan CEO's words was way stronger, in comparison with it the news about futures trading were nothing. There is no clear evidence that futures were aimed to dump Bitcoin.
Btw I also don't think that some government is buying BTC just to take it away from people. That sounds too stupid.

As a matter of fact there is a group dedicated to market manipulation called PPT:

The full definition from investopedia here:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/plunge-protection-team.asp

Do you really think that the powers that be are going to be playing fair against something that can challenge the status quo? time to stop being naive.

BillCoin

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 259

The main reason assets go down when they begin trading at futures exchanges is that it's much easier to start a short position whrn you are trading futures, so basically the selling demand goes up because of that and the assets price usually stabilize and go down even further.

People can short bitcoin against air, they don't really need to sell bitcoins in order to make a short position.

Usually CME futures burst bubbles and kills overvalued assets because the power of the seller increases.

squatz1

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1285

Flying Hellfish is a Commie

Quote from: Beerwizzard on March 18, 2018, 09:16:29 PM

Hmm, that's interesting but the whole thing looks more like a conspiracy theory. The price is determined by many factors that are not counted. Also those types of assets are too different from each other (well, maybe not the assets but the markets are different). For example the uranium price has been growing before 2007. Untill that year the amount of registered geolocations increased dramatically together with the amount of suppliers in the market. In this case people had too many uranium on too high price, the dump was logical.
The conditions of the market were also different in cases with gold and BTC but it doesen't seems like futures had a very significant impact.

Everything relating to why the price changes is going to be a conspiracy theory, people just simply want a reason on why their investment is losing money. Sometimes the more credible ones seem like fact to us, and sometimes they do CHANGE THE MARKET A LITTLE BIT, but none of these factors moves mountains.

The market goes up, and the market goes down. The media tries to sway decisions all the time, nothing new their. Cyclical market.....

Beerwizzard

full member

Activity: 924

Merit: 148

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 18, 2018, 09:51:50 PM

What are things measured against? fiat. Who has the money printers? the powers that be. Then by this basic premise, how isn't every manipulated and keep under control? they can issue futures at any rates, pump and dump at will... who cares? they print the money.

With Bitcoin, since everything is mathematically correct and open source and limited in amount, they can't win, only become bigger players by hoarding, and that is what they are doing, they are taking away people's coins and hoarding them.

First of all the money care value. So printing money can't be totaly uncontrolled or the currency will worth nothing like it happens in Venezuela. The amount of printed money and gov expences is a pretty clear process and it is hard to secretely manipulate it.
In case with Bitcoin futures they were settled in USD (what makes them look more like a gambling) and imho they were pretty unpopular. They did not created any FUD that may bring the price down. The market reaction on JP Morgan CEO's words was way stronger, in comparison with it the news about futures trading were nothing. There is no clear evidence that futures were aimed to dump Bitcoin.
Btw I also don't think that some government is buying BTC just to take it away from people. That sounds too stupid.

BillyBobZorton

legendary

Activity: 1204

Merit: 1028

Quote from: Beerwizzard on March 18, 2018, 09:16:29 PM

Hmm, that's interesting but the whole thing looks more like a conspiracy theory. The price is determined by many factors that are not counted. Also those types of assets are too different from each other (well, maybe not the assets but the markets are different). For example the uranium price has been growing before 2007. Untill that year the amount of registered geolocations increased dramatically together with the amount of suppliers in the market. In this case people had too many uranium on too high price, the dump was logical.
The conditions of the market were also different in cases with gold and BTC but it doesen't seems like futures had a very significant impact.

What are things measured against? fiat. Who has the money printers? the powers that be. Then by this basic premise, how isn't every manipulated and keep under control? they can issue futures at any rates, pump and dump at will... who cares? they print the money.

With Bitcoin, since everything is mathematically correct and open source and limited in amount, they can't win, only become bigger players by hoarding, and that is what they are doing, they are taking away people's coins and hoarding them.

Beerwizzard

full member

Activity: 924

Merit: 148

Hmm, that's interesting but the whole thing looks more like a conspiracy theory. The price is determined by many factors that are not counted. Also those types of assets are too different from each other (well, maybe not the assets but the markets are different). For example the uranium price has been growing before 2007. Untill that year the amount of registered geolocations increased dramatically together with the amount of suppliers in the market. In this case people had too many uranium on too high price, the dump was logical.
The conditions of the market were also different in cases with gold and BTC but it doesen't seems like futures had a very significant impact.

BillyBobZorton

legendary

Activity: 1204

Merit: 1028

Noticed how gold, silver and other assets like uranium started crashing right when the CME futures started?

Now compared to Bitcoin:

Remember this guy?

The powers that be are manipulating Bitcoin suppressing it's price since they can print as much fiat as needed to keep it down. The Futures is the Wall St goons section where they get them trying to control the market participants expectations. Their goal is to frustrate potential buyers through this and get holders to dump, triggering avalanches through media FUD as well:

The hope: Bitcoin is different to any other asset they've had to deal with in the past. This is a war of epic proportions at play as we speak. Buy the dip, long term they can't win. Let them keep printing money, see what happens.

Topic: They are manipulating the Bitcoin price throught ponzi-paper money scheme (Read 163 times)