Topic: This is an honest idea I'm just throwing out there to de-de-decentralize crypto (Read 182 times)

So you are trying to de-centralize an already decentralized, trusted, and widely-used asset such as Bitcoin by having each person mint their own set of tokens. Why would these new tokens gain any traction or any value for that matter? Where is the demand? I don't want to buy Bob's Bob tokens if I have my own PmalekCoin. But if he is selling Bitcoin, I ight be interested in that.

I don't see it happening, sorry. If people aren't ready to be their own banks with Bitcoin, because they can't trust themselves from messing up, the solution is certainly not minting a new altcoin out of thin air. People first need to understand what Bitcoin offers and what possibilities you have compared to traditional banking. When they realize that, they will understand that there is no need for a newer de-de-decentralized Bitcoin.   

Bitcoin may or may not always be the favorite. I'm kind of on the side of making it irrelevant which crypto you're using which is more of where I'm coming from I just really clunked up and over-thought it on the way out...I overthink everything though, so...

I think we're on the same page about not wanting 320 million new trading pairs and/or order books.

In some ways I look back on this and I picture myself turning Bitcoin into a Spartacus-like event where a bunch of cryptos pop up pretending to be Bitcoin as it makes a valiant last stand and ETH never comes back from its suicide mission but DOGE...DOGE...

lol wut?

Anyway...I'll admit there are mistakes in this idea, but it's not about trying to test out coins. What I want is somewhere in the region of increasing the volume of trading between fiat and crypto which would probably increase the market cap of all cryptocurrencies. It would effect and/or challenge the dominance of Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, LUNA, etcetera. The dominance of Bitcoin and friends at this point in time has actually become a bad thing with 51% attackers and other whales and traders manipulating the price to reduce or eliminate the buying power of anyone dumb enough to buy after they did which for BTC was the last time it was about $28,000...So Bitcoin is too centralized at this point IMHO.

I don't want to limit people from doing anything - staying on topic, of course.

As far as the debit cards going to 320 million this is meant to be an option, in other words it is not meant to be a replacement for all the other options (and just because it would be new and different doesn't competitors wouldn't emerge). A million users in 4 years would be a lot IMHO, two million is a home run, 10 million is a grand slam, 100 million is hitting it out of the park. To clarify what I was trying to say earlier I feel that if executed properly this idea has the potential to become so popular that its scope grows beyond the scope it was intended for...which is probably nothing to worry about, but being able to scale to numbers like 320 million eventually is the type of thing my personal capability is sufficient to seek answers for not provide answers for lol so I will seek answers.

...maybe the most strategic answer and the biggest stab in the back to centralized banks would be to go to the schools and get them to teach our kids how to make their own cryptocurrency to the point where every kid who graduates high school has their own cryptocurrency and all the tools they need to bank with it domestically and internationally. We can use the power of the people to give the power back to the people. I can't stop picturing the utopia. Educate the masses and it will become so second nature that it's taken for granted...plus it could be a really cool parent/child project that develops over the lifespan along with the child kind of like a standardized project with mom & dad that every kid "has to" do...I'd be proud as heck of my kid if they programmed their own cryptocurrency.

Please do realize I am trying to engage this conversation from a brainstorming perspective. It's not a debate because I'm not personally attached to any of the ideas I'm bringing up I'm totally willing to get rid of and/or change any/all of it.

How do you "sell" something to users for free though,,, if users should have things for free, then they should not be sold. They should be like Bitcoin and all open source software since the nineties! Created, put out there, and allowed to be used and copied and remade.

There is no need to de-de-decentralize crypto when the template let out by Bitcoin is there to follow

so you make a topic about de-centralising.. about having each person on planet with their own coin.
and now at your first hurdle. you now want to re-invent central exchanges that choose which coins to add. and all people need to convert to fiat to interact.. um............ you sir have re-invented centralisation

a decentralisation solution is where users can have their own currency and then swap with each others independent currency.
but the flaws of this is that having so many currencies, then requires so many 'swap' orderbooks so that each person can evaluate their coins value against their neighbour, friends, families currency.

my response was not about adding 320million new coins to existing exchanges(centralised).. im talking about the admin of "exchanging"(swapping) between friends and family and neighbours and employers/employees via the admin of your idea's debit card solution. where your debit card system will need to have 320million^320,000,000 order books interconnecting different peoples individual coin so that people can swap value between each other at each others exchange rate(decentralisation)

a system limiting the amount of coins that can swap...... hmm call that more centralisation..

i now see you want to kill off 319,999,000 currencies before you even begun because you want to only manage say a thousand. and then want to kill off the decentralised straight swap between each other by making the last 1000 have to centrally exchange into fiat before then moving value between neighbours, family and friends.. thus.. making people just be playing with fiat all over again when buying stuff and sending value to each other

thus . you have just made your whole concept obsolete

..
if you could have a system where people could swap their individualised/personalised coin between each other direct. then you have decentralisation.. however if you are requiring people to drop their coin and just grab fiat to then move value between each other where the system encourages people dropping their coins so that there are only a few remaining coins and all require dropping their coin to grab fiat before even being able to spend value between each other. then you have centralisation..

..
here is one lesson.
there are already thousands of coins. some are even able to direct swap X coin for Y coin without needing fiat in the middle
heck even in 2012 i was swapping bitcoin for litecoin for namecoin for bitcoin without going through a fiat transfer in the middle.
so we have already played out a system a few steps ahead of what your WERE planning(in the title). even if your plan NOW sounds more centralised than whats actually already happened in the past

so if your aim is to see which coins last the test of time of resilience and commonality.. the answer has already been solved for you
bitcoin, litecoin, ethereum
and they have taken a step further by allowing people to swap value between the currencies direct without having to loop through fiat first. meaning no central fiat exchage
also ontop of that there are dozens of exchanges with different parings that dont flow through fiat first. thus more decentralised than your concept

Oh yeah, and another thing...because of the target audience, the amount of funds pulled out of mainstream cryptos like Bitcoin would be close to zero. These people are truck drivers with 401Ks the size of many peoples' student loan debts. All they have are traditional investments anyway. Do you really think their savings in their Jarbltater1 coin ever would have made it into BTC anyway? No, that money would have gone to a 401K, a new car, pizza, or sat in a 0.03% APR Chase PREMIUM savings account until they were 70...Let them have their Jarbltater1 savings, it's ok...unless Bitcoin is somehow about getting rich for nothing...just saying, I thought it was about freedom from centralized authority including but not limited to people who want to influence the price of fluid assets one way or the other with their intentions being good, bad, or indifferent making no difference to me.

It's about making every individual their own bank. It's about making it irrelevant which fiat currency you start and/or end with. It's about closing the wealth gap. This service idea aims to be another one, and an improvement upon, the many tools to help do the work it takes to make those ideals a reality. The shortest example I can think of for how I can see it working is this: you're trading crypto on a centralized exchange, you're using your debit card linked to your coins/tokens that you generated, you only have your USD stable coin to trade with, you want to buy a dip that's only on the GBP/BTC pair, as you click the buy button the service automatically trades your USD stable coin for USD which it then trades for GBP to finally complete the GBP for BTC trade...now...while I was writing this I kind of realized "who's going to facilitate the trading pair between real fiat currencies and these new coins? Where's the follow through?" The answer I came up with is both simple and complicated. Only fiat currencies that have actually been credited/debited into the account of the user can back the stable token they minted; as more fiat currencies are deposited, the equivalent USD value of the user's stable token is printed. One of the results is that if your account value is high enough for a purchase but you don't have enough of the relevant currency it is all aggregated together and exchanged for the fiat and/or crypto-currency the final trade is actually made in. Another result is that no user generated stable token will ever exist through this service which requires another side to be taken on a trading pair/order book because there isn't one, at least not for the stable coins, even if they get sent from one user to another...This all makes sense, trust me, because the stable tokens would only be able to exist as long as the fiat is backing them by being in the account, as soon as the fiat isn't in the account anymore - because that's what's really moving, not the user's stable token - the token gets burned. If you sent someone a USD backed Jarbltater2 token and their account was setup with a Euro backed JoeCoin token the service would facilitate the forex exchange and movement of the USD equivalent in Euros to their account and from their perspective they would have been sent Jarbltater2 token and received JoeCoin.

I kind of made this up as I went along...I'm sure you can tell...and it's a bit for me to chew on so I'm gonna give it a rest and reread this tomorrow.

This service would aim to replace the bank by being better, faster, safer, cheaper, and more convenient. People would still be able to manually deposit fiat and checks into their wallet by using the exact same systems as the current banks - maybe even renting office space in their branches in order to operate a booth or ATM - simply to add the process of converting that fiat to the user's personal crypto before their account is credited. So you go to a bank with the teller service or the Walmart with the ATM and put cash in, for example USD, or you use your phone to deposit a check and the same way you would get your fiat deposited you would get crypto deposited there's just an automated exchange process which is free, valuated at 1:1, and for all intents/purposes does not trigger a taxable event in addition to any taxes that would have been paid without this process. As far as withdrawing from an ATM it's the exact same thing; let's say for example I have 300 Jarbltater2 tokens which are valued at 1 peso each because I work in Mexico and get paid in pesos and this way I can setup direct deposit of peso into Jarbltater2 coin, in this example I went to America and needed to withdraw $4.29 to pay a cab which is 90 pesos so when I swipe my card connected to the account with the 300 Jarbltater2 coin it trades those for USD to pay the cab. This transaction could go through an ATM but either way the same process applies. So 90 Jarbltater2 coins come out of your account, get traded into $4.29 in exchange, then that $4.29 goes to the cab or comes out of the ATM. That's all it takes to withdraw cryptocurrency into your hands. Mining has served its purpose, is no longer necessary to the cause of Bitcoin's original intentions and now actually kind of hurts more than it helps. Everything will be proof of stake software clouds by time an idea like what I'm talking about becomes a reality anyway. Then again maybe I'm wrong and ETH2.0 never becomes a reality giving us the power to do what I'm talking about it because the more and more I write, the more and more I think about it...You're kind of right to bring up the mining issue because if I made my Jarbltater coins/tokens run on a POW algorithm it wouldn't matter which one it was if people didn't switch to mining those specific coins/tokens. So I guess that's my solution to getting all of the new coins processed is to run them all on ETH2.0 or another POS algorithm that doesn't require people to consciously elect to mine a specific coin running on the algorithm in order for that coin to be processed...

This is by no means a complete solution, meaning it is not in its final form and is open to change. The convenience and commonality is what I'm trying to address by trying to provide more options because I believe we won't find the best solution by trying to find the best solution. We will find it by allowing all the potential solutions to compete in a free market. In other words we'll never really know unless we see it through. In the end I think this will work for some people that other wise wouldn't have anything that worked for them so at the end of the day it's more people in crypto. Why it would be more common and convenient is part of my next point; the idea isn't to get 320 million new coins so that they DO interact with each other but so that they DON'T interact with each other. Just because the app supports you adding your coins/tokens to exchanges doesn't mean any exchange is going to actually put your coin/token on their exchange so they won't necessarily be added to any order books. As far as flooding the market with order pairs, the "thousands of coins with order books against thousands of other coins" part, the design and intent of the service and its systems would be specifically designed to influence that into happening as little as possible by limiting support of the app in creation of trading pairs; for example, your coins/tokens can only be traded against fiat currencies unless they're added to an exchange and that exchange specifically adds a different trading pair. So the order books that would have increased volume would be the fiat ones, like USD/USDT or USD/USDC etc...except it would be USD/Jarbltater2 and then later it would just be Jarbltater2/Euro at the same exchange rate as Jarbltater2 was backed with like Pesos...So even if I bought the Jarbltater2 with USD or anything else including but no limited to peso it would trade at the rate of 1 peso per Jarbltater2. I can see how it would be too confusing, I'm having a hard time understanding the idea myself let alone explain it effectively...Maybe I have too much humanist faith in me, idk, I'm just too much of an optimist because I'm envisioning a near future in which "you've got to buy USDT before you can trade on this exchange" turns into "did you make yourself a USD coin" or "did you make a peso coin so you can bank with pesos?"...like I said I think I'm miscommunicating it because it's not about making all these new crap cryptos to flood the market into oblivion with, it's about keeping crypto true to the intentions Bitcoin had when it was born - blurring the lines of international trade by undermining the ability of central banks to prevent us from sharing currency. I'm envisioning the day when the news stories are telling us about how there's so many peso coins, and so many ruble coins and dollar coins that no matter what anyone did people would be able to trade internationally without banks (because we've gone completely under and over their heads) and I'm picturing those news stories ending with, "...and what is everyone buying now that they can? Bitcoin." So this isn't about replacing anything either, just providing another option...Bitcoin will always be the OG...it'll be Grandpa Crypto and a point of common ground for all of humanity.

Maybe I'm trying to come up with an example of something that could do what Elon Musk & Paypal did for online shopping but for crypto.

I appreciate you challenging the flaws in this and I'm willing to adapt it to make it workable. I look forward to other criticisms because without them there is no way to improve upon the idea from its current form.

people use banks and fiat currency not because they dont trust themselves, but more so that its common and convenient

no one would trust a uncommon and inconvenient currency.
its why americans find it convenient and common to use dollars in their area rather than euros.

people just dont want to be messing around with 320million different currencies and trying to calculate if 20 Jarbltatercoins are worth the same as $20 or 20frankycoins

next people dont care about the technicals of which blockchain or app a currency is created using. they will just find one and i mean one that is convenient and common in their area that just gets on with the job of buying goods and services where they can easily see a common value of X currency is worth X minimum wage hours which then buys X/4 loaves of bread

also the administration set up of having a debit card that is then attached to 320million different market order books is a task that is not going to work well.
as is having 320million³²⁰ orderbooks swapping with each other

people just end up finding one common currency that they can all match to and then just stick with the common one.
yep there are thousands of altcoins but all of them match to bitcoin so majority just stick with bitcoin.
markets would not work if each altcoin had its own market exchange order book against the other thousand coins. and each of them thousand coins had orderbooks with the thousands of coins.

not only would it dilute the user participation per orderbook, but it would also just be too confusing.

there is a point where trying to go too decentralised, then becomes a point where it just no longer works.
decentralisation of bitcoin works because people do not need a central point of power to decide things for the masses(well thats the aim). but instead has a common power of the masses agreeing on the same thing.

I'd first like to start off by thanking you for reading my post. Second I want to say that everything I'm about to say needs to be able to be sold to end users for free somehow...ads, B2B revenue, grants, crowdfunding, etc. Third I'm saying this should be available to every single person that that everyone who gets into crypto should be able to do everything I'm about to say. Let's get started.

I'd like to discuss an idea I've been reimagining over and over again for a while. My motivation behind the idea is to provide a more attractive option to access crypto which may be appealing enough to people who haven't engaged with cryptocurrency yet, specifically those who refuse to leave centralized banks. First and foremost this type of person's concern is security and they trust themselves least of all which is why they want someone else holding onto their money so it is going to sound counter-intuitive when I say I want them to be able to make their own cryptocurrency with absolute security more easily, with more personalization, and more usability. With such a difficult audience being targeted I'd better have something up my sleeve to catch their attention...

So, to start, this service would be provided through an app that has a long list of features. The first feature is making your first cryptocurrency which will either run on an already existing blockchain the app supports or a blockchain the user generated. Ideally I'd setup the process so that they would mint a coin and two tokens. For example: a Jarbltater1 coin valuated by market cap & supply which is used for savings; a Jarbltater2 token valuated by a 1:1 trade value with the chosen fiat currency used for direct deposit, transactions, banking; and, a Jarbltater3 token valuated by a 1:x trade value with the chosen fiat currency which can be used for tax payments, burned to reduce supply of Jarbltater1 coin, or burned for governance votes. All of the coins/tokens generated by the users would be able to be listed on exchanges through the same app if they chose to do so.

Next, with that app and with their own cryptocurrencies, the user of this service would be issued a credit/debit card which upon swipe of the card sells at market the equivalent value of Jarbltater2 token for the fiat currency of whatever the card reader needs based on the region/settings. This would be a tool to allow anyone anywhere to "use USD" no matter what they have in their pocket wallet or crypto wallet.

So I feel this covers some things for some people like the usability and accessibility problems they see with crypto. It also solves their problem of thinking no matter when they could get into crypto it'll be too late or too risky. It solves that by giving them the option to keep their Jarbltater1 coin off any exchanges or even visible to others while also giving them the option to do the opposite. So it'll literally be 1:1 fiat savings as they put money into that unless they put it on an exchange, in which case the worst case scenario is that the government 51% attacks it by printing endless supplies of money into the market cap thereby making the user rich even if everyone who got into it afterwards lost money. I'm talking about the type of people who work 80 hours a week and want to protect their money from being lost while also having the safest, easiest, fastest, no nonsense, professional/trustworthy place to put their money.

Lastly and probably most importantly and complex is the taxes part because that has to basically be all automated for someone who, again, works 80 hours a week and even when they're not working have no time for taxes, money, politics, the government, anything, etc. So this is the most important part. It solves their question of what if pay even a penny more in taxes because of crypto because the way the service would work is they wouldn't make or lose even a fraction of a fiat currency unless they listed their coin on an exchange, in which case that tax responsibility is offloaded to that exchange which would be explained to them by the app but also automated so the app gets the forms from the exchange without them having to do anything and every year it's the same for them; fully automated and fully inclusive of all their transactions in the app. It might even need to be setup to aggregate all of the 1099-K forms into 1 so they can simply put that into the service they use to file instead of a bunch; or maybe even the app could go full on turbo tax and actually go through filing their taxes with them too...I know it's a bunch but that's where we are with that audience. They want easy. They want fast. They want guarantee on top of guarantee...and they are hard to convince.

I think this service can not only attract a difficult to attract audience, but, could become so attractive that it sets off a 2nd or 3rd (idek where we are at this point) crypto revolution evolving humanity in general's use of crypto from a few popular cryptos with thousands being used to literally hundreds of millions of different cryptos because everyone can just make there own...maybe even hundreds of millions of cryptos or even billions of different cryptos...I'm talking a different cryptocurrency for every man and woman who wants to make one...

Well, what does everyone think? Silly nonsense? Or a modest start to something that could become bigger? Maybe what Bitcoin needs for the true intentions it was born into the world with to not die?