Topic: This is bad: Russia 'abducts' Estonian officer after Obama says US will defend.. (Read 4561 times)

Made-up love story and forged passport used to back Lavrov's allegations against Lithuania


After Russian Minister of Foreign Affairs Sergey Lavrov made allegations that Polish and Lithuanian mercenaries were fighting in Ukraine, the Russian media took upon itself to find proof for the minister's claims.

Rubaltic.ru has unearthed a story from one month ago about Yakaterina Semyonova from Kharkiv, Ukraine, who was allegedly looking for her missing lover, Lithuanian captain Remigijus Šinkūnas. It was reported that Šinkūnas had come to Ukraine to teach in a Kharkiv military school; he allegedly met Yakaterina there but, twelve days later, told her he was being sent off to Dnipropetrovsk and had not been heard from since.

According to the story, officers of the Kharkiv police came to Yakaterina and showed her Šimkūnas' passport: it was allegedly found at a military rocket launch site, proving the Lithuanian was involved with the Ukrainian military.

However, the photo in the passport that was claimed to belong to Šimkūnas later revealed the document was forged. A passport with that number belongs to another Lithuanian citizen.

"This is just one more information attack against Lithuania. The passport is forged, a document with that number has been issued to a different person. What we see is a propaganda and misinformation campaign conducted with the help of made-up stories and forged documents," says Rasa Jakilaitienė, spokeswoman to the Lithuanian minister of foreign affairs.

On Monday, Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov told Bloomberg that Lithuanian and Polish nationals were fighting in Ukraine, in "battalions formed and funded by oligarchs".

The interview, which was posted on the website of the Russian Foreign Ministry, was not the first time that Poland and Lithuania had been accused of sending troops to Ukraine. In his notorious speech in Crimea, Russian President Vladimir Putin made similar claims right after Russia annexed the peninsula.

According to political observers, Russian leaders are thus trying to back their more abstract claims that Western countries are interfering into what they say is Ukraine's domestic conflict. Moreover, Moscow keeps denying its own involvement in the crisis, even though NATO has reported about the presence of Russian regular troops on the Ukrainian soil.

http://en.delfi.lt/central-eastern-europe/made-up-love-story-and-forged-passport-used-to-back-lavrovs-allegations-against-lithuania.d?id=66023300#ixzz3F7hdxwmg

Russia detains Lithuanian fishing vessel

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/economy/russia-detains-lithuanian-fishing-vessel.d?id=65894796


Lithuanian PM calls vessel detention by Russia demonstration of anger and power
 
http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/foreign-affairs/lithuanian-pm-calls-vessel-detention-by-russia-demonstration-of-anger-and-power.d?id=65899588#ixzz3DoJKMpbW


Lithuanian Foreign Ministry summons Russian Ambassador over detained Lithuanian fishing vessel

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/foreign-affairs/lithuanian-foreign-ministry-summons-russian-ambassador-over-detained-lithuanian-fishing-vessel.d?id=65899734#ixzz3DoJyHQop

Russia Sees Need to Protect Russian Speakers in NATO Baltic States

Russia's Foreign Ministry says there are "whole segments of the Russian world" that may require Moscow's protection, and has singled out Baltic states by saying that Russia will not tolerate an "offensive" against its language there.

If this sounds reminiscent of the rhetoric that accompanied Moscow's annexation of Crimea, the Foreign Ministry made no secret of the intended parallel. The ministry's chief monitor of human rights overseas, Konstantin Dolgov, cited the policies of Ukraine's government in Kiev as an example of a rise of "xenophobia" in Europe, according to a transcript of a speech published by the ministry Monday.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-sees-need-to-protect-russian-speakers-in-nato-baltic-states/507188.html

We aren't the one saying that. You are the ones who said "HALF of our media is private, so they're impartial."

Estonian MFA ‏: The UN @UNGeneva expressed concern for Estonian Internal Security Service officer Eston Kohver and called for his release.

Latvia: Guns found in searches of pro-Russia volunteers from Ludza

The criminal investigation initiated last week by the Security Police (DP) into three men claiming to be from the town of Ludza who appeared in video posts from Donbass, armed to fight with pro-Russian forces, has uncovered a cache of guns and ammunition, information agency LETA reported Thursday.

Altogether seven searches have been conducted so far, revealing a number of confiscated objects, among them three firing weapons and ammunition, as well as a pneumatic gun. One of the weapons was being kept without a permit.

While declining to specify the locations of the searches, or whether the discovered arms could belong to any of the three men, the DP said its investigations would continue until a further decision is taken in the process.

The DP also declined to comment whether any of its officers have traveled to Ukraine to resolve issues in close cooperation with their local counterparts having to do with Latvians possibly taking part in armed separatist groups.

The DP confirmed last week that the identities of the men are known, two being citizens, one being a non-citizen. All of them had been noted by the DP for their ties to the National Bolshevik political movement in Latvia.

All three are now under criminal investigation for public exhortations to terrorism, as well as obtaining, possessing and carrying weapons. These are the first-ever criminal cases launched against someone accused of supporting terrorism. The punishment if convicted could reach up to an eight-year prison term.

http://www.lsm.lv/en/article/societ/society/guns-found-in-searches-of-pro-russia-volunteers-from-ludza.a98039/

I don't care. You guys are pretending to say that private ownership is a guarantee of impartiality, so let it be.

But what about the privately owned media in the west? Guess how many federal TV channels and newspapers in USA are privately owned?

AGREED. They are a bunch of ignorant monsters, who VICTIMIZE their OWN

people FIRST, then their neighbors. FUCK THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT.

There are more journalists murdered in Russia than in any other developed country:

http://cpj.org/reports/2014/04/impunity-index-getting-away-with-murder.php

http://en.rsf.org/russia.html

It makes no difference who owns TV channels or newspapers, they all have to register with the government, even a single blogger at his home!

http://www.mediadefence.org/stories/focus-press-and-net-freedom-russia

That's not how a free country should be.

Next Stop Baltics? "Russia Warns Of “Unfortunate Consequences” Over Ethnic Tension In Baltic by @maxseddon

A Russian official has warned that alleged discrimination against Russian-speaking minorities in the Baltic states “may have far-reaching, unfortunate consequences,” fueling jitters that Moscow may seek to stoke tensions there as the Ukrainian crisis continues to fester.

Konstantin Dolgov, the Russian foreign ministry’s human rights ombudsman, told a conference in the Latvian capital of Riga on Saturday that “entire segments of the Russian World” were struggling to uphold their human rights, according to a transcript published on the ministry’s website on Monday. “One of the obvious and, perhaps, key reasons for this state of affairs is the ceaseless growth of xenophobic and neo-Nazi sentiments in the world [and] their subsequent deep penetration into the consciousness of the political establishment in a whole array of foreign governments,” Dolgov said.

The timing and tone of his speech suggest Russia’s growing willingness to use ethnic groups abroad as a political wedge. President Vladimir Putin has spoken frequently of his vision of a broader Russian-speaking federation in recent years and reserved the right to protect Russian speakers with military force after Russian troops annexed Crimea in March.

Despite their protection under NATO’s collective security pact, leaders in Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, former Soviet countries that joined the alliance in 2004, have frequently worried that they will be next and urged their larger Western allies to do more. Since U.S. President Barack Obama visited Estonia earlier this month to underscore the West’s commitment to defend them, all three countries have seen provocative incidents apparently designed in response. Russia arrested an Estonian security officer in what Tallinn said was a cross-border abduction; Russian authorities resurrected desertion charges against a Lithuanian who refused to serve in the Soviet army 24 years ago; and in Latvia, local television reported that the Russian embassy there was working to send Russian-speakers, including ex-convicts, to fight alongside Russia-backed rebels in eastern Ukraine.

Dolgov’s comments reflect long-held complaints that Baltic countries treat their Russian-speaking minorities as second-class citizens. Moscow claims that the states, particularly Estonia and Latvia, make it difficult for Russian speakers to attain citizenship and insult them by holding ceremonies honoring Balts who fought in Nazi SS divisions against the Soviet Union during World War II. Dolgov — whose office was essentially created to deflect criticism of Russia’s own human rights record by pointing out abuses in the West, an old Soviet rhetorical trick known as “whataboutism” — accused European Union officials of “preferring to disseminate tired-out, frequently unfounded criticism of foreign governments instead of seriously dealing with the snowballing heap of human rights problems in their own houses.”

Russia has been perfectly happy to work with the European far-right when it suits it. Several far-right lawmakers who gave glowing marks to the Crimean secession referendum in March despite glaring irregularities were invited to repeat their role as observers at local Russian elections on Sunday, the independent newspaper Novaya Gazeta reported.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/russia-warns-of-unfortunate-consequences-over-ethnic-tension#3x340dp

Exactly.

You're joking, right? In case if you don't know, CКCMP is NGO. This NGO is supported by the US-based "National Endowment for Democracy" and other foundations.

Yeah sure, that's the reason why a half of federal TV channels and newspapers is privately owned. #CognitiveDISSONANCE

I'm sorry but it appears that you're trying to make judgements using legacy information from the beginning of 20th or even 19th century. Seriously, you don't have a clue what's happening here.

The CКCMP is not an organization which is under Kremlin control. In many instances they have taken a stand which is against the official Kremlin position. And don't tell me that BBC is a source which can be relied on. Ever since the start of the Dombass conflict, the BBC has been acting like an official propaganda channel of the Right Sector movement. Only retards will trust a source such as BBC.

This is official Russian information, and you can't trust it. All the media are under government's control in Russia. That's not the case in the West, and the BBC tells the exact opposite:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28968526

The war against Chechnya was more official than the one in Ukraine, I'll agree with you on that point. Incidentally, I remember talking with Ukrainian guys about what was happening in Chechnya during the war. I was in Paris back then, in 1995, they had nothing good to say about anything Russian.

Huh? So Russian mothers write letters, make blog posts, and record videos demanding to know where their sons are, why their sons are in Ukraine, why their sons are dying in Ukraine, and why they aren't even allowed to properly bury their sons after they died in Ukraine, and Russia makes an "official" website where mothers are perfectly fine and proud of their sons, whatever they are doing? Why am I not surprised?!

And remember at the time on Chechen wars, it turned out that Russian soldiers did actually die.

Here is the official website of the Union of the Committees of Soldiers' Mothers of Russia (Coюз Кoмитeтoв Coлдaтcкиx Maтepeй Poccии):

http://www.ucsmr.ru/

There are no complaints here about their sons fighting in Ukraine. Remember that at the time of the Chechen wars, the CКCMP was very active in publishing the plight of the soldiers.

If you believe that, then you have to believe that they are all there illegally, and without telling their friends and family, because you have to ask permission from military office to go do that during vacation and the person running that office said she never received any such requests, and I'm sure you have heard about all the Russian mothers complaining about not knowing where their sons were, and only finding out they were in Ukraine after they died. Plus you would have to believe that Russian soldiers who go on vacation can take tanks, trucks, buks, and howitzers with them.



If they were fighting against 1,000 Ukrainian soldiers, sure, but they may be fighting against thousands more. And also, taking Donbass may not even be their goal. Just keeping the fighting going is enough to keep Ukraine destabilized and not able to join NATO. Plus you can also win the war by draining Ukrainian army of its resources by slowly harassing them. Just like Iraq insurgency did to the much bigger USA army. Just need enough troops to keep everyone safe and from getting overrun.

Russian soldier death toll? So far not a single Russian soldier on active duty has died in Ukraine. There were some volunteer deaths, but they were mostly from the Ossetians and the Don Cossacks.

If there were 1,000 Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine, then the Kiev forces would have lost the entire Donbass region in a matter of days. You can't compare the Russian army with the Ukrainian one. The difference is vast.

No, I mean the ones he admitted were fighting alongside the separatists around the end of August.


First of all, it's probably closer to 1,000 or more, considering the Russian soldier death toll so far. Plus all the trucks, tanks, howitzers, and other military hardware.
And second, it depends on what Putin wants. He may want all of Ukraine, which would require him to invade with a much bigger force. Or he might just want the Ukrainian gas fields in Eastern Ukraine, fearing that if Ukraine starts mining them and selling that gas to Europe, Russia will become insignificant and its economy would crumble. He doesn't need many troops for that, just enough to help the separatists control that small amount of territory. Or he may just want to destabilize Ukraine to prevent it from being able to join EU and NATO, and to punish it for kicking out his own corrupt puppet, or to spread enough fear about Ukraine among his own people so that Russians don't kick out their own extremely corrupt rullers just like Ukraine did. That requires even less troops - just enough to sabotage things and kill a few people here and there to keep the anger and fighting up.

A dozen or so Russian soldiers, who were stationed near the Russo-Ukrainian border lost their way and ended up in Ukraine. That is what Putin admitted. So tell me, if Russia is going to invade Ukraine, they will do that with just a dozen servicemen? For sure, the Ukrainian army is incapable of fighting against the Russian army. But that doesn't mean that Putin will invade Ukraine with just 10 soldiers.

Pretty sure EVERYONE is talking about the Russian army that Putin admitted were therea few weeks ago.

If you are referring to ethnic Russians, then more than one-third of the population of Donbass is consisted of ethnic Russians and they have a right to stay there. Whether the Kiev junta wants them out or not, they are going to stay there. And if you are referring to Russian citizens, then no more than one-tenth of the NAF soldiers are Russian citizens.

Definitely, Ukrainians would love to see all the Russians on its soil leaving.

Back to IS, I really find it strange that with ten Arab countries backing the US/EU coalition to fight IS in its stronghold, in Eastern Syria, it was a great opportunity for Russia to look like it wants peace in the world, and that it's ready to help the good guys fighting the bad guys, but it didn't seize it. Sorry, but that's bad for image.

I've found a very interesting article about Russia' strategy in Eastern Europe:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29078541

Stop twisting the facts.

Now. Russia is against US/UK bombing Syria on a whim, not against ISIS. Learn the difference.
We all know that these terrorists operate in UK and US as well. So does this give Russia the right to bomb US and UK to get rid of the terrorists in those countries. Because that's what Obama/Cameron imply.

PS:

‘No country can legally invade another country without the UN approval’
http://rt.com/op-edge/187156-us-syria-strike-illegal-un/

In Norway, any child born on Norwegian soil automatically gets Norwegian citizenship, that he/she needs to confirm before he reaches 21 years. I would thing the same applies to people born in Latvia, as long as they are not ethnic Russians (Latvia is a country actively and proudly practising Apartheid)

If children of legal immigrants are denied citizenship, then it is not just revenge, but also a gross violation of the human rights. These people have resided in Estonia and Latvia for many decades, and have paid their taxes to these countries. Suddenly, the government says that they don't have the qualification for basic rights, such as citizenship and voting.

I note the article doesn't say China condemns it. There's a difference between not supporting, and condemning. Also, pretty hilarious Russia talking about military actions against a country without the consent of its government 

I've actually read through the article instead of jumping to conclusions.

How do you interpret a protest against attacking ISIS? Or teaming up with Syria and Iran to protest attacking ISIS?

I love the way some of you guys are already in the process of claiming that anyone who isn't in automatic agreement with you is an enemy and working with ISIS.

It's getting worse and worse, it seems Russia and IS are becoming partners.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/11/assad-moscow-tehran-condemn-obama-isis-air-strike-plan

I understand it would be difficult for Russia to work arm in arm with America and all western countries against IS, but IS is fighting against Syria, which is Russia's friend. Logic says my friend's enemy should my enemy too, but Russia doesn't understand it that way. Russia, Syria and Iran are united against air strikes to fight IS. So things are clear now, all the bad guys are together.

Is it revenge to deny citizenship to foreign people who have babies on your soil???

That goes both ways. Governments in Latvia and Estonia claim that they were invaded by the USSR during WW2, and therefore refuse to grant citizenship to those ethnic Russian residents who were born after 1941. If these nations can take revenge for something that happened 73 years ago, in 1941 (when Russia didn't even existed), then why can't Russia take revenge on something that happened 24 years ago?

I can't say it those people are western puppets or not, but I don't see any theft in what they've done. Everything was contractual. They signed  agreements with plenty of lawyers on each side and money changed hands. Everything was legal. The same thing has happened in Africa with Chinese businessmen. It's still happening today, the Chinese are buying huge part of Zimbabwe, much more than what the "West" owns in Russia, and there's nothing wrong in having some assets in foreign hands. Many rich Russians own a house in South of France, or in Italy, and do you know why? Because those regions are attractive.

Having many foreigners visiting, or investing, is the best possible sign that a country is successful.

Good question for estonian, lithuanian and latvian authorities. Right after explanations what exactly happened, because they're refusing to disclose the charges. It looks like the prosecutor's offices of these republics are occupied by idiots.

Why take revenge on something that happened 24 years ago?

Speaking about "invasion", some interesting statements from Turchynov were published.

http://nbnews.com.ua/ru/news/131604/

According to you, the rest of the world means USA + EU? Get a geography lesson. There are far more countries around the world.


Give proof that they were active Russian military personal. Anyway, according to the treaty signed between Russia and Ukraine over the use of the Sevastopol naval base, the Russian personal are given certain powers, including the freedom of movement around Crimea.

Crimean people agree with me. Fuck the rest of the world. It's none of their business.

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that, while the rest of the world disagrees with you.



The invasion was when a bunch of Russian troops in unmarked military uniforms invaded Crimea, took over the airport, and "kept the peace" BEFORE Crimea had the vote and the "majority" rebelled against the Kiev rule. Care to tell me who in Crimea invited those unmarked Russian troops who all wore balaclavas to keep from being identified?

They all have Russian names though... Let's see:

Mikhail Khodorkovsky - Born in Moscow, Russia, became deputy head of Komsomol (the Communist Youth League), used his connections within the communist structures to gain a foothold in the developing free market, and used the help of some powerful people to start his business activities under the cover of Komsomol. Sounds like an old Soviet Russian stealing your resources from within. Why would he be called a western puppet? "In February 2003, at a televised meeting at the Kremlin, Khodorkovsky argued with Putin about corruption. He implied that major government officials were accepting millions in bribes." Ah! There it is!

Platon Lebedev - Born in Moscow, Russia, is best known as a close associate of Mikhail Khodorkovsky. Is he a "western puppet" for similar reasons? "He was subsequently charged with embezzlement and money laundering in 2009, and pled not guilty to the charges. There has been speculation that these charges were politically motivated.  Lebedev and Khodorkovsky were named prisoners of conscience by Amnesty International" and says "he would fight for the freedom of people he considered political prisoners." So, all around great Russian while stealing the oil, but a western puppet bastard if he goes against the rest of the Russian oligarchs.

Mikhail Brudno - Too little info on this guy... My guess is also a Soviet oligarch that stole Russian resources from within government.

Vasily Shakhnovsky - Same as above, too little info, but also has ties to the Yukos debacle. Which, for the uninformed, "After Khodorkovsky (Owner of Yukos) became an advocate of democratization, international co-operation and Russian reform, in October 2003 Khodorkovsky was arrested, and the company was forcibly broken up for alleged unpaid taxes shortly after and declared bankrupt in August 2006. Courts in several countries later ruled that the real intent was to destroy Yukos and obtain its assets for the government, and act politically against Khodorkovsky." Or, you know, private party buys oil fields and creates a highly successful oil company, government that is still full of old Soviets and KGB decide they want in on that, trump up false charges, and steal that wealth by nationalizing the company, with new oligarchs simply getting jealous and stealing from the old oligarchs (btw, it's this what both George Orwell and Ayn Rand warned against, and what bitcoin as a political system is designed to fight?). Oh, and what do you know, "In 2014 the largest arbitration award in history, $50 billion (€37,2 billion), was won by Yukos' former owners against Russia."

Leonid Nevzlin - Born in Moscow, Russia, participated in the Russian presidential election of 1996 helping to reelect Boris Yeltsin, but is otherwise a plain business man and (OH NOES!) a jew who dared to suggest that jews should have freedoms in Russia. So, another Russian oligarch who came up through the ranks of Russian politics, but became a "western puppet" once the new oligarchs wanted to steal from the old oligarchs. Except he's extra "western" because he's a jew. Despite being born, raised, and taught in Russia, and working with the Russian government.  

In short, Russian oligarchs, all born and raised in Russia (Soviet Russia no less), many of whom were involved in government or rose up through its ranks, stole from their own people to build a highly successful private oil company, but once they started making real money, and worse, suggesting that Russians should have freedoms and good relations with the rest of the world, the old government oligarchs got jealous and took all their wealth by nationalizing their company, and, of course, calling them "western puppets," because, being born, raised, educated, and members of Soviet Russian government is what makes one a "western puppet."


Yeah, there's no "later sold them." They were nationalized by Russian government and are all now owned by Russian government owned companies like Gasprom.

P.S. Thank you for the list of names. Researching and reading about this part of Russia's more recent history has been highly enlightening.

Both #Estonian and #Russian border guards signed an act after #EstoniaKidnap confirming it took place IN #Estonia.

Crimea was a part of the Russian SFSR until 1954, when Nikita Khrushchev illegally annexed it to Ukraine. In 2014, the vast majority of the Crimean people rebelled against the Kiev rule, and seceded from Ukraine. A few days after the declaration of independence, the Crimean people voted to join the Russian Federation. Their request was approved by Russia. Where is the invasion here?

1)Russia didn't invade Crimea. Crimean people did not want to live together with the Nazis from Kiev and asked Russia rejoin. Do you feel the difference?

2)There are no Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine. If there were Russian troops, militia would have won long ago.

This is not true. Many people in Kiev speak only Russian and do not understand Ukrainian very well. This is something maybe some person in Kiev said, who had no power to actually change anything at all, and that Russia spread big propaganda about to try to scare Eastern Ukraine. It would be silly for Kiev to ban all Russian language when so much of Kiev and Ukraine speaks it. Besides, it is not the language that Ukraine is worried about, it is Russia and Putin.



What? Its current form is similar to what Greeks experimented with thousands of years ago, and almost exactly what Romans had thousands of years ago (Senate, parliament, etc).



So, DPRK (North Korea) is perfectly ok then?

Police raid homes of Latvians connected to pro Russia rebels in Ukraine, weapons found


A car is seen in Latvia flying the flag of the Donetsk People’s Republic


 Security police have raided several homes in Latvia in connection with residents who may be fighting with pro Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine.

Weapons and ammunition were found in some of the homes, LETA reports.

Criminal cases have been launched against the people for committing acts of terrorism and the purchase, storage and carrying of illegal weapons, security police say.

It follows after videos emerged earlier this month showing interviews with Latvians fighting for separatists in the region. Two of the men in the video claim to be from Ludza, Latvia. Police say the men have connection with the National Bolshevik Movement.

Meanwhile, Latvia's Security Police earlier this month began a criminal process against three people from Latvia who have publicly made appeals for others to join the fighting in Ukraine.

The Baltic Times http://tinyurl.com/mbxl7kp

Yeah, I kinda had to comment on this one too. Did you forget Crimea and Eastern Ukraine already?

Western puppets such as Mikhail Khodorkovsky, Platon Lebedev, Mikhail Brudno, Vasily Shakhnovsky and Leonid Nevzlin fraudulently seized Russian national assets including oil and gas fields using a variety of means (including murder and intimidation of government officials) and later sold them to bankers and investors from the EU and the US.

Hmm... I see Pagan is diversifying into other threads...

Russia threatens to jail hundreds of Lithuanians

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article4201694.ece

Russia increases pressure on the Baltic States

http://www.redstate.com/2014/09/09/russia-increases-pressure-baltic-states/

You are mixing up the nation as such, and the 0.001% that for example bought the gas fields during the 90s for something like $1 per square kilometer. That was a nation-wide defrauding, not just in oil and gas, but in every branch of industry in Russia. Moreover, large scale tax avoidance is also widespread (Yukos case and Khodorkovskij). So that 0.001% of "Russians" (who are mostly Jewish) are happy to get the cash. Russians are getting just scraps. Putin started doing something about it, making more of the natural resource money flowing into the state coffers, which, among other things, made him popular in Russia and not popular in the West (remember the recent EU ruling where Russia as a state is supposed to return 50 billion € that were seized from Yukos for tax fraud back to the handful of the fraudsters and the thieves.)

And, as Balthazar mentioned, you don't need to go far for real freedom limitations. Just look at Latvia, where you have a class of citizens, who are called non-citizens (287.000 of them, dubbed as "ne-gry", "niggers"). They live and work there, amny were born there, but have no access to any "democratic" mechanisms, no voting rights, etc.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CD%E5%E3%F0%E0%E6%E4%E0%ED%E5_%28%CB%E0%F2%E2%E8%FF%29


Or, at least the illusion of having choices. And example of Norway and doctors. You cannot go to a specialist before you visit and pay to a local doctor and survive several months of waiting in lines. You have a choice of going to a specialist directly with less waiting, but then you have to pay the 50x price.  And even then not all specialists are allowed to accept you like that, so the particular doctor you might wish to visit quickly is unreachable, because the seeming choice is of options is an illusion and you anyway have to endure the system.

By the way, if people are happy to have a benevolent dictator for a ruler, and a functioning society and economy (and judging by conversations with a few Belorussians that I had, they do), who are we to impose on them a form of government that will destroy their country, but will give them the illusion of freedom? How are we to do that? With democratic bombings and befreeing scorched earth as NATO usually does?

Freedom of press makes educated people. Freedom of enterprise makes people proud of themselves when they are successful. Free elections make responsible citizens. Etc...

There are monkeys in zoos which are perfectly happy when they are well fed, but human beings deserve more than that. Monkeys too, when I think of it.

Can you live a normal life, a happy life, when you can't decide your children's education, how many hours you work, what doctor you'll see if you're ill? A happy life is having choices.


No Russian national asset has been stolen that I know of. What are you talking about? Russia sells natural gas to the West, but that isn't stolen, and Russians are happy to get the cash.

Lukashenko is a honest person, at least... Unlike Obama, Cameron and other 99.99% of "democratic" politicians hypocrites, he officially described himself as "last dictator in the europe" and says that he's proud to be dictator. Despite the fact that it's not true and the most of politicians from the Baltic states are much worse in terms of human rights suppression. They're just too cowardly to admit the real nature of own regimes.

I don't care about the press freedom as long as the people there are able to lead a normal family life. In 75% of the world nations, there is no press freedom, so Belarus is nothing special. IMO, the Belorussians are better off being ruled by a dictator who cares for his own people, rather than being ruled by some oligarch or a western puppet.

Lukashenko averted a catastrophe during the late 1990s and early 2000s. The ordinary Belorussians will never forget that. The Western rulers are just angry because they can't steal the national assets of Belarus, unlike what they did in Russia and Ukraine.

1)nope, you can not slander the President
2)easy
3)majority Belorussians support president...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Belarus

ruSSia against the Baltic States-

"If even several years ago one could see Russia's will to distance itself from the Soviet regime, the recent events [...] clearly indicate not just legal, but also ideological identity between #Russia and the #USSR."
The General Prosecutor's Office of Lithuania has informed that the Russian law enforcement authorities are trying to reopen criminal proceedings against Lithuanian nationals who refused to serve in the Soviet army following the country's 1990 secession from the USSR.

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/defence/lithuanian-defence-minister-we-are-doing-all-to-protect-our-citizens-against-prosecution-in-russia.d?id=65786158


Attempts by Russia's law enforcement agencies to re-open criminal prosecution against Lithuanian nationals who avoided military service in the Soviet army in 1990-1991 has no legal basis, says international law expert Erika Leonaitė.
Moreover, she says, such a move reaffirms that Russia is the successor state of the USSR, responsible for crimes inflicted on the Baltic States.

http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/foreign-affairs/legal-expert-russia-indicates-that-it-questions-lithuanias-independence.d?id=65801104

long live russia long live putin the threat to world peace is israel and the western governments who do its bidding

I meant the indirect "let's pretend you have a choice" variety.
Choose between the "2+2" party and the "2*2" party.
In Novgorod republic you had a least some influence on the choices taken, provided your the right kind of man.

Which form you mean? Any modern liberal democracy it's still a feudal regime but under liberal guise. Feudal democracy was invented 8 centuries ago, look at Republic of Novgorod for example.

Democracy is only one of the forms of governing, and in its current form is a pretty recent invention. Belarus is not democratic. Agreed. But it does not make it malfunctioning for that.
I have several friends in Lithuania, who moved closer to their relatives into Belarus, simply because living standards and housing is better there, and there is work to be had - the factories and agriculture are working, unlike in the Baltic states.

For those, who read Terry Prattchett, I invite you to think about the ruler of Ankh-Morpork, Lord Vetinary. One man, one vote; Vetinary is the man, so he has the vote. And Ankh-Morpork works as a fine-tuned clockwork.

I know Russia is a trans-continental nation, I've flown over it quite a few times. I also note you conveniently forgot to reply to the main part of my last post, but that's all right, we can talk about Belarus is that's people want here.

How about press freedom? Is it possible to print in a newspaper that the president of Belarus has a tiny, tiny willy like Putin? (I'm only joking, don't get angry). How about economic freedom? How easy is it to start a business in Belarus?

Any fair elections there? What are the democratic institutions in Belarus? How many political parties in the opposition?

Yes, please. Let's talk about freedom in Belarus!

Hi there from Russia. Im sorry my english is not so good but maybe I'll can tell u something interesting as russian citizen? It's all my own opinion.
I want to say, there are strong brain washing everywhere: on our TV, on Ukraina TV and I think in Europe countries too.
But, I think Im not washed and I'll try to talk without loud words.

I don't want a new war. And nobody of russians wants (maybe only small group of radical nacionalists and skin-heads). There are too many lifes was crashed in last big war: u know, east front of WW2 was very deadly for russians, there are memorials of that war stay in every russian city and village. One of my ...grandfathers... (not shure how right to say) was too died in arplane-fighter. So, all "normal" russians don't want a war.

What about Crimea and Ukraine? I don't know is it right that Putin doing, but Crimea was under russian people many ages... There are the same russians living at Crimea and east-Ukraine as we, it's not their fault that they now in Ukraine now after USSR breakup. Im too [was can] be now in Ukraine, Belarus and orher ex-USSR place if be my parents migrate at last. In USSR times, it was One country, people migrated between cities and soviet respublics like now americans migrates between New York and Los Angeles for example. So, many of russians now in Crimea and east Ukraine. U know, cities like ukrainian Donetsk, Lugansk, Mariupol and other speak at russian language. That cities like Odessa, Kiev speak ~50/50 russian and ukrainian. And west cities talking at ukrainian. Why this war begans? Because Kiev was banned russian language all over Ukraina. But in east Ukraina many people even don't know ukrainian language! Yes, it's similar languages, Im russian and can understand in common when I read ukrainian text. But when i MUST use it in all official documents - it's shit u know? So, add to this an idiots in ukrainian goverment, crapping between west and east, situation when russian lives better than east-ukrainians and u understand that east ukrainian people choosing Russia and no choosing Kiev. Putin's hands are tied too and he can't make something active to protect east-ukrainians (=russians).
I think it may be good if Crimea and east-Ukraine will be russian. But I don't want to hypothetical situation when Putin will try to do west Ukraine ano other coutries russian parts. There are so different culture, that union will not be long and stable.

So, about 1930's invasion in Poland and Finlandia. I know war is not good, but Im understand Stalin in this situation. He afraided of Hitler and tried to move goverment frontier from east to west to have some additional days if Hitler will attack. It all the same didn't help with the beginning of its attack... And now Putin trying to make something like that: he afraid NATO and wants have additional minutes to do something if ballistic rockets will starts. So, if NATO will be here, on russian-ukrainian frontier, we'll can not crash a hypothetic ballistic rockets with nuclear bombs that theoretically may be launched (we know a militaristic politics of USA and NATO!!). And if NATO will not be on frontier, we will have some minutes to launch couner-rockets and maybe some east cities will be saved from niclear fire.
This is main purpose of Putin I think. He isn't want to occupate Europe.

bryant.coleman, all these things don't matter, because "Belarus is not a free country".

And no matter that taxation systems in many of self-proclaimed free countries are working as countrywide machines of exploitation. Hell yeah, why should somebody care about financial slavery while Belarus is not a free country.

Well, for your information, Russia is a trans-continental country, sharing its border with 16 sovereign states. With some, it enjoy quite frosty relations (such as Poland and Latvia). But with others, there is no lack of warmth in the relationship (Kazakhstan, Belarus, Mongolia, DPRK, China.etc).

And coming back to Belarus, I personally don't care whether it is a free country or not. After the breakup of the USSR, Belarus was the only country which remained stable. It's president refused to nationalize the public assets (i.e selling them to the oligarchs at 1/100th of the original rate).

In the late 1990s, when millions of Ukrainians and Russians were dying from alcoholism and other external causes, the Belorussians enjoyed a modest but stable lifestyle. It is evident from looking at the death rates at that time. Death rates in the Russian and Ukrainian regions bordering Belarus shot up to around 25/1000, while the same in Belarus was around 15/1000. The reason was that drunkard Yeltsin and Kravchuk / Kuchma never bothered about the silent genocide of their people, but Lukashenko did his best to prevent similar incident from happening in Belarus. I have a great deal of respect towards him for that.

You should be proud of your post-Soviet programming.

From your nation's FAILURE, you have arisen from the ashes as neo-fascists.

Keep killing innocent people, you fucking MONSTERS. WE WILL SLAY YOU.

You should be ashamed of your brainwashed 

Seems you give a new meaning to the term "invasion". Viet Nam was a real invasion, but you can't say America has invaded Ukraine, nor that it invaded Tunisia in 2011. I know that for sure, since I was there at the time.

Whereas in the nineties, Russia had been at war in Georgia and Chechnya, but that's not what I want to talk about.

My point is that people see the biggest danger as the one closest to their home. To a Pole or a Lithuanian watching the news about IS, he will see sunni muslims killing shia muslims, and behading two Americans. That sure is bad, but he won't see any relation between that and himself, nor with his country. But talk to a Pole about what's going on in Ukraine, and he will have plenty to say, all bad about Russia.

It's a negative sign that Russia doesn't enjoy friendly relations with any of its neighbor. Well, Belarus is an exception, but that isn't a free country.

dude, tell me more about 15 republics in 1920 If someone look like ruSSian, talk like ruSSian, smell like ruSSian, then it's probably marsians.


The Polish–Soviet War (February 1919 – March 1921) was an armed conflict that pitted Soviet Russia and Soviet Ukraine against the Second Polish Republic and the Ukrainian People's Republic over the control of an area equivalent to today's Ukraine and parts of modern-day Belarus. At some points the war also threatened Poland's e

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War

^^^ You need to understand some basic facts.

#1. It was the USSR, better known as the Soviet Union which invaded Poland. From 1918 to 1991, there was no Russia.

#2. The USSR, was composed of 15 constituent federal republics. These republics were:  Russian SFSR, Ukrainian SSR, Byelorussian SSR, Uzbek SSR, Kazakh SSR, Georgian SSR, Azerbaijan SSR, Lithuanian SSR, Moldavian SSR, Latvian SSR, Kirghiz SSR, Tajik SSR, Armenian SSR, Turkmen SSR & Estonian SSR.

If you claim that the Russian SFSR invaded Poland, then the facts does not corroborate that. It was invaded by forces from all the 15 constituent federal republics.

The Soviet invasion of Poland was a Soviet military operation that started without a formal declaration of war on 17 September 1939, immediately after the end of the undeclared war between the Soviet Union and the Empire of Japan at the Battles of Khalkhin Gol (Nomonhan) in the Far East. The Molotov–Tojo agreement between the USSR and Japan was signed on 15 September 1939, with a ceasefire taking effect on 16 September 1939.[6] On 17 September, sixteen days after Nazi Germany invaded Poland from the west, the Soviet Union did so from the east. The invasion ended on 6 October 1939 with the division and annexing of the whole of the Second Polish Republic by Germany and the Soviet Union.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland

The Polish–Soviet War (February 1919 – March 1921) was an armed conflict that pitted Soviet Russia and Soviet Ukraine against the Second Polish Republic and the Ukrainian People's Republic over the control of an area equivalent to today's Ukraine and parts of modern-day Belarus. At some points the war also threatened Poland's e

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War

Has the Russian Federation ever invaded Poland? If you are referring to the Russian Empire, then it ceased to exist in 1917. But I have to remind you that the Russian Empire consisted of the present day nations such as Finland, Ukraine.etc and is very very different from the Russian Federation. Should I say that therefore Finland has invaded Poland?

^ ^ Then why do we (russians) always fight NOT on their land? Then why are we in Poland, Finland, Hungary, the Czech Republic and Slovakia, Germany, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, in Afghanistan, in Transnistria, Chechnya, Georgia, and now in the Ukraine called the occupiers?

http://politikum.in.ua/post/5sep2014/comments/510-mihail-vistickiy.html

The most dangerous country to world peace is the United States of America. IS has invaded 2 countries in the last 50 years. Russia has invaded none. On the other hand, the US has invaded dozens of nations ever since the end of WW2.

Here is the list:

1949 Greece
1952 Cuba
1953 Iran
1953 British Guyana
1954 Guatemala
1955 South Vietnam
1957 Haiti
1958 Laos
1960 South Korea
1960 Laos
1960 Ecuador.
1963 Dominican Republic
1963 South Vietnam
1963 Honduras
1963 Guatemala
1963 Ecuador.
1964 Brazil
1964 Bolivia
1965 Zaire.
1966 Ghana
1967 Greece
1970 Cambodia
1970 Bolivia
1972 El Salvador
1973 Chile
1979 South Korea (Pro-USA government wanted)
1980 Liberia
1982 Chad
1983 Grenada
1987 Fiji
1989 Panama
2001 Afghanistan
2002 Venezuela
2003 Iraq
2004 Haiti
2009 Honduras
2011 Libya
2011 Tunisia
2013 Egypt
2014 Ukraine

I wonder who is the most dangerous to world peace, IS or Russia. To all countries in Eastern Europe, this is Russia.

Confirmed that abduction occurred in the course of cross border corruption investigation.
 Documented. On Estonian soil.

Remember Medininkai as well: "Russian governments change, lies – and methods – stay the same."

http://estonianworld.com/security/russia-kidnapping-estonians-nothing-new-46-abducted-thirties/

Several Soviet OMON assaults on Lithuanian border posts occurred in 1991, after Lithuania declared its independence from the Soviet Union on March 11, 1990. As a Soviet republic, the Lithuanian SSR did not have a state border with customs or checkpoints. The newly declared Republic of Lithuania began establishing the State Border Guard Service, which also became a symbol of its striving for independence.[1] The Soviet government viewed the customs posts as illegal and sent the OMON (Special Purpose Police Unit) troops against the posts, especially those along the eastern border with Belarus. The unarmed[2] custom officers and policemen were harassed, beaten or killed, their cars were stolen or bombed, the posts were burned down or wrecked, and work of the checkpoints was otherwise disrupted.[3] Two of the incidents resulted in the deaths of eight Lithuanian citizens. In total, about 60 officers were attacked and injured,[4] and 23 border posts were burned or destroyed.[5]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_OMON_assaults_on_Lithuanian_border_posts

Estonia has been crying Wolf, wolf many times before. More PR. Invading them is not worth the effort. Those countries are self-destructing under the US guidance quite nicely as it were...

This might be just a trick to get some of the abducted ex-Soviet military personnel back to Russia. Both these nations have been poking Russia for long. It is time to give a fitting reply, so this who drama is ended once and for all. It seems that both Latvia and Estonia have forgot what happened to Georgia when they similarly tried to poke Russia.

This is terrible if you accept one side of this. Russians say he was caught in Russia. Clearly there's a feature of capturing him, so it simple to evaluate the area.

«Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.»

- Matthew 7:12

Estonia and Latvia were "abducting" the retired russian officers on the regular basis, in order to perform a trial on false accusations related to events, which have happened in the 1990s. So I'm not surprised to see a kind of "revenge" from russian side. I also won't be surprised if they "accidentally found" a few kilograms of heroin.

Now what Mr. Obama?

http://www.vox.com/2014/9/5/6110037/estonia-russia-officer-kidnapped

"Just on Wednesday, the United States publicly committed to Estonia's military defense, meaning that a Russian invasion of Estonia would trigger war between Russia and the US, a prospect so dangerous that the world managed to avoid it throughout even the Cold War."