This might become a very important legal precedent for SEC vs. Coinbase

bbc.reporter

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News update and it appears this time instead of the SEC filing a case against the cryptospace, it is the cryptospace filing a case against the SEC hehehehe. Through this case, the whole cryptospace might find both a precedent and legal clarity.

Also, the skeptical me thinks that there might be a plan being created to impeach uncle Gary out of office because of incompetence. It would not be very shocking for me if there is a conspiracy and the real person behind this is Larry Fink of Blackrock hehehe.

Crypto exchange Coinbase has filed a lawsuit against the SEC following the denial of transparent crypto regulation. The US Securities and Exchange Commission officially denied Coinbase’s petition request for more transparent crypto rules and regulations earlier Friday.

Paul Grewal, Coinbase’s Chief Legal Officer, shared the opening of the lawsuit on X. “Promise made, promise kept,” Grewal says in the post. “We are now on file with Third Circuit to challenge the SEC’s arbitrary and capricious denial of our petition for crypto rulemaking.”

Source https://watcher.guru/news/coinbase-files-lawsuit-against-the-sec-over-crypto-regulation

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on October 08, 2023, 11:59:50 PM

I am not quite certain what crypto needs to have value, however, my bitcoins and altcoins are readily accepted in many exchanges in exchange for dollars, euro and other fiat currencies. They also are accepted as payment for many items and services. Is this not giving it value? Do cryptocoins need to be backed by a government and be accepted as payment for taxes to have value?

Crypto Has ‘No Innate or Inherent Value’, SEC Argues in Coinbase Case

The Securities and Exchange Commission is arguing that cryptocurrencies lack any "innate or inherent value" as part of their case against Coinbase in federal court—prompting eye rolls from Coinbase and crypto watchers.

Source https://decrypt.co/200625/crypto-has-no-innate-or-inherent-value-sec-argues-in-coinbase-case

SEC's definition of a currency having value is government backing and nothing more. They assume that even if a government certifies the use of tissue papers as a legal tender, it immediately has value. If they can control it, it has value, and if they cannot it doesn't have value. My only problem is that many nations are under the influence of the US. These nations sheepishly follow the US monetary policies without due consideration. If more nations open up to cryptocurrencies the SEC will have no other option but to stop this legal drama. The SEC legal team looks confused because their briefs are filled with inconsistencies and errors.

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I am not quite certain what crypto needs to have value, however, my bitcoins and altcoins are readily accepted in many exchanges in exchange for dollars, euro and other fiat currencies. They also are accepted as payment for many items and services. Is this not giving it value? Do cryptocoins need to be backed by a government and be accepted as payment for taxes to have value?

Crypto Has ‘No Innate or Inherent Value’, SEC Argues in Coinbase Case

The Securities and Exchange Commission is arguing that cryptocurrencies lack any "innate or inherent value" as part of their case against Coinbase in federal court—prompting eye rolls from Coinbase and crypto watchers.

Source https://decrypt.co/200625/crypto-has-no-innate-or-inherent-value-sec-argues-in-coinbase-case

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Quote from: joniboini on September 04, 2023, 09:08:38 PM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 03, 2023, 08:25:55 PM

However, I do not disagree that these are man made and some of these projects might be a scam but under an environment with unclear and undefined crypto regulations because the SEC refuses to make them clear, the judges are doing uncle Gary's job for him. According to these judges, they are not securites.

Even if they release a detailed guideline to define what is security and what isn't, isn't it possible that the judges will disagree with their definition too? Maybe someone will definitely bring it to court if the SEC defines security too broadly, but it won't stop the SEC from fining anyone especially those who have no money to defend themselves.

Thus, guidelines for crypto projects already exist based on judicial practice. You can't sell tokens. Typically, projects sell a stake in the company to qualified investors.
But this complicates the market and does not give the ordinary user the opportunity to participate at the beginning, as was the case in 2017 at the ICO.

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 03, 2023, 08:25:55 PM

However, I do not disagree that these are man made and some of these projects might be a scam but under an environment with unclear and undefined crypto regulations because the SEC refuses to make them clear, the judges are doing uncle Gary's job for him. According to these judges, they are not securites.

Even if they release a detailed guideline to define what is security and what isn't, isn't it possible that the judges will disagree with their definition too? Maybe someone will definitely bring it to court if the SEC defines security too broadly, but it won't stop the SEC from fining anyone especially those who have no money to defend themselves.

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Quote from: zasad@ on September 02, 2023, 05:44:00 AM

I have said many times that Ethereum is an untouchable coin for regulators. The project has a very serious lobby...

Right. Yes, I believe that in 10 years almost all the shitcoins that exist now will have disappeared, but I think that Eth has all the chances of being one that will remain with us.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 03, 2023, 08:25:55 PM

If it is according to your opinion, okay, they are securities. However, there are 2 judges that have already have made 2 favorable rulings saying that they are not securities.

Of course, the judges will have their reasoned opinion on the subject, just as Gensler has, and since we are in a forum exchanging opinions, I give mine in a reasoned manner.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 03, 2023, 08:25:55 PM

ETH is also used for gas fees to use the Ethereum network very much like a commodity being used to run different industries.

I hadn't thought of that.

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Quote from: Poker Player on September 02, 2023, 02:18:15 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 01, 2023, 10:28:59 PM

@Poker Player. You are asking a difficult question, however, let me ask you if gold miners find new deposits of gold and inflates the supply around the world, would this make gold stop being a commodity?

Gold miners can mine at more or less speed, and usually do so depending mainly on the price of gold, but what they cannot do is issue gold at will. For me Ethereum and almost all shitcoins are securities because if we go to examples we will see that corporate debt or bonds issued by a company have a centralized entity that issues them, the company, through the board of directors, and that issues them at will, as many as it wants. It does not mine, extract or produce them, it issues them.

But that I see a clear similarity between Eth and securites but I don't see it with gold.

If it is according to your opinion, okay, they are securities. However, there are 2 judges that have already have made 2 favorable rulings saying that they are not securities. Also, bonds and ETH might not be like comparing apples and oranges. ETH is also used for gas fees to use the Ethereum network very much like a commodity being used to run different industries.

However, I do not disagree that these are man made and some of these projects might be a scam but under an environment with unclear and undefined crypto regulations because the SEC refuses to make them clear, the judges are doing uncle Gary's job for him. According to these judges, they are not securites.

zasad@

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Quote from: Poker Player on September 01, 2023, 10:31:34 AM

May I know, bbc.reporter, zasad@ and Fiatless, how do you see Ethereum as a commodity?

Something that you can increase the supply of at will Vitalik Buterin, and that is, in fact, potentially infinite I don't see it as a commodity as one of the characteristics of them is that they are finite and cannot be produced at will.

I see this as bad news, because for me the only commodity is Bitcoin for its essential properties that it does not share with any shitcoin (I do not know all of them, I suppose that some could be, such as Litecoin, which is very similar to Bitcoin but certainly not Eth).

I have said many times that Ethereum is an untouchable coin for regulators. The project has a very serious lobby, and Vitalik Buterin is not a decision-maker, but a representative of the project.
Neither the head of the SEC nor legislators have been able to define what Ethereum is for many years, and here is such a surprise. The judge solved a long-standing problem.
The news is positive, because now other projects will be able to develop and this will benefit the Bitcoin ecosystem.

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 01, 2023, 10:28:59 PM

@Poker Player. You are asking a difficult question, however, let me ask you if gold miners find new deposits of gold and inflates the supply around the world, would this make gold stop being a commodity?

Gold miners can mine at more or less speed, and usually do so depending mainly on the price of gold, but what they cannot do is issue gold at will. For me Ethereum and almost all shitcoins are securities because if we go to examples we will see that corporate debt or bonds issued by a company have a centralized entity that issues them, the company, through the board of directors, and that issues them at will, as many as it wants. It does not mine, extract or produce them, it issues them.

But that I see a clear similarity between Eth and securites but I don't see it with gold.

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Quote from: Poker Player on September 01, 2023, 10:31:34 AM

May I know, bbc.reporter, zasad@ and Fiatless, how do you see Ethereum as a commodity?

Something that you can increase the supply of at will Vitalik Buterin, and that is, in fact, potentially infinite I don't see it as a commodity as one of the characteristics of them is that they are finite and cannot be produced at will.

I understand your concern because even common commodities like farm products such as corn and wheat have limited supply in a given period. The infinite supply of Ethereum might be a challenge in categorizing it as a commodity. However, the issue of grouping cryptocurrencies as securities or commodities is a complicated one that goes beyond the limited or unlimited supply. It has always been a subject of litigation over these years. This is because other characteristics of commodities such as uniformity and fungibility are also considered. Just like how agencies and intentional organization regulates the supply of some commodities it is also possible that the Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) will place restrictions on the supply of Ethereum.

I am not an advocate of Ethereum and don't even own a wei and I believe that Bitcoin is a perfect example of a commodity because it has all the characteristics.

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@Poker Player. You are asking a difficult question, however, let me ask you if gold miners find new deposits of gold and inflates the supply around the world, would this make gold stop being a commodity?

Also, if you use the inflating supply argument to define a commodity, I reckon Ethereum's supply has been going down already since it began being a proof of stake platform.

Poker Player

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May I know, bbc.reporter, zasad@ and Fiatless, how do you see Ethereum as a commodity?

Something that you can increase the supply of at will Vitalik Buterin, and that is, in fact, potentially infinite I don't see it as a commodity as one of the characteristics of them is that they are finite and cannot be produced at will.

I see this as bad news, because for me the only commodity is Bitcoin for its essential properties that it does not share with any shitcoin (I do not know all of them, I suppose that some could be, such as Litecoin, which is very similar to Bitcoin but certainly not Eth).

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It was indeed a landmark judgment that gave birth to two important precedents. The first precedent is that decentralized platforms like Uniswap will not be held accountable for tokens issued and traded on their protocol. Rather the issuers of such scam tokens should be traced and held responsible for the scam token that made investors lose money. Secondly classifying Ethereum as a commodity removes its regulation from the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and puts the coin under the supervision of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) just like Bitcoin.

zasad@

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I had no doubts about Ethereum. This coin is banned from any SEC claims.
This is a very important precedent for all similar coins that have not recently sold their coins to unqualified investors. With such news, Ethereum and Bitcoin now have a chance for a new pump.

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It appears another judge has done uncle Gary's job for him again hehehe. On a case against Uniswap, another judge of Southern District of New York has ruled that Ethereum is a commodity and refused to use the federal securities laws to cover the conduct alleged, according to the article.

This is a victory for the cryptospace and another good legal precedent. Also, this judge will also be hearing the case of SEC vs. Coinbase.

A New York court classified popular cryptocurrencies ether (ETH) and bitcoin (BTC) as "commodities" while dismissing a proposed class action lawsuit against leading decentralized crypto exchange Uniswap in a Wednesday filing.

The court's opinion on its dismissal of the class action suit could influence future litigation against decentralized protocols and perhaps even those alleging violation of U.S. securities laws.
Judge Polk Failla also oversees the SEC lawsuit against Coinbase.

Source https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2023/08/31/us-court-calls-eth-a-commodity-while-tossing-investor-suit-against-uniswap/

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