It used to be an average of all interests, until someone managed to lend out something like 0.00001 USD for a few million % for a day, driving VIR so high that nearly all VIR loans were incredibly expensive and borrowers were force liquidated.
I'm not too sure why it is not possible to make VIR simply: (sum_of_all_interest_paid_in_the_last_hour/sum_of_all_loans_taken)*100 (times 365 then, to get a yearly number - while for traders everywhere they only see daily numbers by the way!).
Currently it seems to be something along the lines of an average of all loans in the past few days but capped at something to make it not change that quickly (even though Bitcoin can change much faster!). Seems I really need to build a lending bot after all that places orders instead of trusting that VIR gives even decent returns (it does NOT, compared to the market).
Topic: Thoughts on Bitfinex statistics? (Read 2688 times)
Just wait until the rally gets going full steam! In March/April there were rates as high as 8000%+. When Bitcoiners panic, they panic hard
Well, it won't go that high because we now have some more "strict" limit (1% per day, if you call that strict). Unless people borrow directly at higher rates, but then that would be quite a bull run.
...WHAT?
Where is that documented and since when is this in effect? I used Auto-Lend with VIR as a easy mechanism to provide funds and still gain if there is a jump in the market but I was already quite disappointed by the returns from this rally... Is only the increase capped or the decrease as well? Why do you regulate this kind of stuff with hidden undocumented algorithms anyways instead of having an open market for lending rates?
Honestly I still don't really understand the variable interest algorithm either.
Just wait until the rally gets going full steam! In March/April there were rates as high as 8000%+. When Bitcoiners panic, they panic hard
Well, it won't go that high because we now have some more "strict" limit (1% per day, if you call that strict). Unless people borrow directly at higher rates, but then that would be quite a bull run.
...WHAT?
Where is that documented and since when is this in effect? I used Auto-Lend with VIR as a easy mechanism to provide funds and still gain if there is a jump in the market but I was already quite disappointed by the returns from this rally... Is only the increase capped or the decrease as well? Why do you regulate this kind of stuff with hidden undocumented algorithms anyways instead of having an open market for lending rates?
Hello,
You were right 100%, impressive
SheHadManHands, yes that's a sign of bullish market, but at the same time, that doesn't mean they are generally more informed than others.
Just wait until the rally gets going full steam! In March/April there were rates as high as 8000%+. When Bitcoiners panic, they panic hard
Well, it won't go that high because we now have some more "strict" limit (1% per day, if you call that strict). Unless people borrow directly at higher rates, but then that would be quite a bull run.
True. And we have been approached for this. But this P2P lending thing is our "touch" and a unique feature, so we don't want to stop it. It makes it more expensive for the traders, but it's still possible to be REALLY profitable with these rates, and it provide "small" investors with a way to get real return on their debased currency. So no we won't go to the bank and kill our P2P lending
About the insurance pool, yes it's empty most of the time. Still by now, you can see that "normal" crashes doesn't cause any problem. It would be the death of Bitcoin that would really pose a problem.
Anyway, have a profitable day
Raphael
Bitfinex
It is indicative of a market that is getting overheated. This does not mean it is going to crash right away but when it does, the crash will sharp and violent. The BTC will then end up in stronger hands namely those who own the BTC outright and / or can borrow USD or other fiat at more reasonable rates say well under 10% APR.
I also suspect that the correction / crash will start in China.
I also suspect that the correction / crash will start in China.
You were right 100%, impressive
SheHadManHands, yes that's a sign of bullish market, but at the same time, that doesn't mean they are generally more informed than others.
Just wait until the rally gets going full steam! In March/April there were rates as high as 8000%+. When Bitcoiners panic, they panic hard
Well, it won't go that high because we now have some more "strict" limit (1% per day, if you call that strict). Unless people borrow directly at higher rates, but then that would be quite a bull run.
But it makes no sense that if you ran bitfinex you down't go to the bank and borrow HAND OVER FIST at whatever joke QE interest rates are being offered by central crony banks, and then lend it out at insanely profitable rates to BTC shorters.
True. And we have been approached for this. But this P2P lending thing is our "touch" and a unique feature, so we don't want to stop it. It makes it more expensive for the traders, but it's still possible to be REALLY profitable with these rates, and it provide "small" investors with a way to get real return on their debased currency. So no we won't go to the bank and kill our P2P lending
Perhaps they'd rather hold BTC themselves
About the insurance pool, yes it's empty most of the time. Still by now, you can see that "normal" crashes doesn't cause any problem. It would be the death of Bitcoin that would really pose a problem.
Anyway, have a profitable day
Raphael
Bitfinex
I wish the insurance pool were not empty most of the time. Still, I'm very happy with Bitfinex.
Thanks for answering my questions mccoyspace. Cheers!
Hmm, I've only known about Bitfinex for 4 days now So you are saying that most of the time the interest rate to keep the money lent out is more like 12%, hey? It all makes more sense if that is the case.
So you are saying that most of the time the interest rate to keep the money lent out is more like 12%, hey? It all makes more sense if that is the case.I see it mostly linger around the 20-30% apr range. Hell, I still have a loan held with BFX that is at 29%
20-30% is still awesome on a USD deposit.
I guess one risk is that the borrower's aren't liquidated in time during a severe crash, in which case your losses (on uninsured loans) would be correlated with your bitcoin losses. This would defeat the "diversity" we may believe we are achieving in our portfolios.
Hmm, what is an appropriate % of net worth to invest with Bitfinex....
They have a loan insurance pool available to handle those situations. If you take the insurance then the exchange will make you whole if the market drops before margin positions can be liquidated. They charge 30% of your interest payments for that service (2/3 of which go towards building up the insurance pool).
fyi
bitfinex market stats page:
https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/stats
1.7 million USD loaned out currently
bitfinex market stats page:
https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/stats
1.7 million USD loaned out currently
And BFX is already earning at least a cool 10% on all the interest their loaners are collecting.
Hmm, I've only known about Bitfinex for 4 days now So you are saying that most of the time the interest rate to keep the money lent out is more like 12%, hey? It all makes more sense if that is the case.
So you are saying that most of the time the interest rate to keep the money lent out is more like 12%, hey? It all makes more sense if that is the case.I see it mostly linger around the 20-30% apr range. Hell, I still have a loan held with BFX that is at 29%
20-30% is still awesome on a USD deposit.
I guess one risk is that the borrower's aren't liquidated in time during a severe crash, in which case your losses (on uninsured loans) would be correlated with your bitcoin losses. This would defeat the "diversity" we may believe we are achieving in our portfolios.
Hmm, what is an appropriate % of net worth to invest with Bitfinex....
fyi
bitfinex market stats page:
https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/stats
1.7 million USD loaned out currently
bitfinex market stats page:
https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/stats
1.7 million USD loaned out currently
Hmm, I've only known about Bitfinex for 4 days now So you are saying that most of the time the interest rate to keep the money lent out is more like 12%, hey? It all makes more sense if that is the case.
So you are saying that most of the time the interest rate to keep the money lent out is more like 12%, hey? It all makes more sense if that is the case.I see it mostly linger around the 20-40% apr range during non bull dominant times. Hell, I still have a loan held with a BFX lender that is at 29%
But it makes no sense that if you ran bitfinex you down't go to the bank and borrow HAND OVER FIST at whatever joke QE interest rates are being offered by central crony banks, and then lend it out at insanely profitable rates to BTC shorters.
Bitfinex wouldn't lend USD to BTC shorters, they'd pass through the loan to the bulls paying the exorbitant rates on BFX and profit the difference.
Still [following byronbb's reasoning]: why allow us to earn 200% interest lending USD, when, I would assume, they could borrow Bernanke bucks or the Hong Kong equivalent at a vastly lower rate?
At bitfinex you borrow USD to go long BTC and you borrow BTC to go short.
Everything that is borrowed stays on the exchange. You certainly could borrow money from the bank for any kind of investment. It's not usually recommended.
The challenge with USD lending during "normal" times is that you can't keep your loans out. I guess if you lent it really low (e.g. 12% apr) you would have takers most of the time. But the exchange takes 10% of your interest payment, 30% if you want them to guarantee your loan (which if you were borrowing the money in the first place would be a good idea). SO it ends up being a tough way to make a few points of interest.
Hmm, I've only known about Bitfinex for 4 days now
So you are saying that most of the time the interest rate to keep the money lent out is more like 12%, hey? It all makes more sense if that is the case. But it makes no sense that if you ran bitfinex you down't go to the bank and borrow HAND OVER FIST at whatever joke QE interest rates are being offered by central crony banks, and then lend it out at insanely profitable rates to BTC shorters.
Bitfinex wouldn't lend USD to BTC shorters, they'd pass through the loan to the bulls paying the exorbitant rates on BFX and profit the difference.
Still [following byronbb's reasoning]: why allow us to earn 200% interest lending USD, when, I would assume, they could borrow Bernanke bucks or the Hong Kong equivalent at a vastly lower rate?
Perhaps they'd rather hold BTC themselves
I'm skeptical, but leaning the same way vokain: the people that *know* about bitfinex are all bulls so they'd all rather have BTC than USD. Those with lots of USD but without knowledge of bitcoin don't know what they are missing, and couldn't assess the risks properly anyways.
But it makes no sense that if you ran bitfinex you down't go to the bank and borrow HAND OVER FIST at whatever joke QE interest rates are being offered by central crony banks, and then lend it out at insanely profitable rates to BTC shorters.
Bitfinex wouldn't lend USD to BTC shorters, they'd pass through the loan to the bulls paying the exorbitant rates on BFX and profit the difference.
Still [following byronbb's reasoning]: why allow us to earn 200% interest lending USD, when, I would assume, they could borrow Bernanke bucks or the Hong Kong equivalent at a vastly lower rate?
At bitfinex you borrow USD to go long BTC and you borrow BTC to go short.
Everything that is borrowed stays on the exchange. You certainly could borrow money from the bank for any kind of investment. It's not usually recommended.
The challenge with USD lending during "normal" times is that you can't keep your loans out. I guess if you lent it really low (e.g. 12% apr) you would have takers most of the time. But the exchange takes 10% of your interest payment, 30% if you want them to guarantee your loan (which if you were borrowing the money in the first place would be a good idea). SO it ends up being a tough way to make a few points of interest.
But it makes no sense that if you ran bitfinex you down't go to the bank and borrow HAND OVER FIST at whatever joke QE interest rates are being offered by central crony banks, and then lend it out at insanely profitable rates to BTC shorters.
Bitfinex wouldn't lend USD to BTC shorters, they'd pass through the loan to the bulls paying the exorbitant rates on BFX and profit the difference.
Still [following byronbb's reasoning]: why allow us to earn 200% interest lending USD, when, I would assume, they could borrow Bernanke bucks or the Hong Kong equivalent at a vastly lower rate?
Perhaps they'd rather hold BTC themselves
I've done a lot of trading at bitfinex. I've lent and borrowed USD, gone long and short BTC. It's a good exchange. The people that run it are very responsive.
I've never had a problem with them.
I've never had a problem with them.
But it makes no sense that if you ran bitfinex you down't go to the bank and borrow HAND OVER FIST at whatever joke QE interest rates are being offered by central crony banks, and then lend it out at insanely profitable rates to BTC shorters.
Bitfinex wouldn't lend USD to BTC shorters, they'd pass through the loan to the bulls paying the exorbitant rates on BFX and profit the difference.
Still [following byronbb's reasoning]: why allow us to earn 200% interest lending USD, when, I would assume, they could borrow Bernanke bucks or the Hong Kong equivalent at a vastly lower rate?
But it makes no sense that if you ran bitfinex you down't go to the bank and borrow HAND OVER FIST at whatever joke QE interest rates are being offered by central crony banks, and then lend it out at insanely profitable rates to BTC shorters.
Bitfinex wouldn't lend USD to BTC shorters, they'd pass through the loan to the bulls paying the exorbitant rates on BFX and profit the difference.
But it makes no sense that if you ran bitfinex you down't go to the bank and borrow HAND OVER FIST at whatever joke QE interest rates are being offered by central crony banks, and then lend it out at insanely profitable rates to BTC shorters.
The interest rates seem too good to be true. Sort of off-topic, but does anyone have experience lending on Bitfinex? Would you trust them with, say, 5% of your net worth?
Just wait until the rally gets going full steam! In March/April there were rates as high as 8000%+. When Bitcoiners panic, they panic hard
The interest rates seem too good to be true. Sort of off-topic, but does anyone have experience lending on Bitfinex? Would you trust them with, say, 5% of your net worth?
Experience on the borrowing side, but not the lending side. The mechanism is the same. The owner is in France and is very responsive:
fr.linkedin.com/in/raphaelnicolle/
To my knowledge, there haven't been any real issues there.
The interest rates seem too good to be true. Sort of off-topic, but does anyone have experience lending on Bitfinex? Would you trust them with, say, 5% of your net worth?
Thats why I know someone who sent $$ for lending there today.
The problem is it's all bitcoin-ers lending the cash, lol.
If the general public and bitcoin naive were aware of bitfinex, there'd be much lower rates always available.
Thats why I know someone who sent $$ for lending there today.
What I found most interesting is that there is $55k requested at the moment at 100+% APR.
By extension, there's apparently no one on Bitfinex at the moment willing to sell their BTC to fulfill that request. It's all automated with Bitfinex, if I undersand correctly, so it's not like there's too much risk to loaning and that's why no one will fulfill at 100+%.
By extension, there's apparently no one on Bitfinex at the moment willing to sell their BTC to fulfill that request. It's all automated with Bitfinex, if I undersand correctly, so it's not like there's too much risk to loaning and that's why no one will fulfill at 100+%.
It is indicative of a market that is getting overheated. This does not mean it is going to crash right away but when it does, the crash will sharp and violent. The BTC will then end up in stronger hands namely those who own the BTC outright and / or can borrow USD or other fiat at more reasonable rates say well under 10% APR.
I also suspect that the correction / crash will start in China.
I also suspect that the correction / crash will start in China.
Just a sample from the "Lending" page, below. Thoughts?
If I'm reading correctly, there may be many traders long, currently, and there are more traders willing to borrow USD (up to ~$55K) at 100% APR. If traders haven't eaten up the lower APR loans that were available, then those loans have been removed (and the lender likely purchased BTC himself).
1) Does this say something about the confidence in the current bullish market?
2) Can we assume the average Bitfinex trader is more informed (or a "better trader") than the general population?
If I'm reading correctly, there may be many traders long, currently, and there are more traders willing to borrow USD (up to ~$55K) at 100% APR. If traders haven't eaten up the lower APR loans that were available, then those loans have been removed (and the lender likely purchased BTC himself).
1) Does this say something about the confidence in the current bullish market?
2) Can we assume the average Bitfinex trader is more informed (or a "better trader") than the general population?
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