Topic: Thoughts on future of collectible physical cryptocurrency. (Read 843 times)

Wowzer.  Who do we know that is a client of theirs?

Time for Mantis Prime to open an account with BitcoinSuisse AG!

well thats friggin neat

BitcoinSuisse AG was the closest to a proper financial institution to produce loaded bitcoin items and after producing a few beautiful loaded notes they determined there was not enough business to justify the expense/hassle/risks. 

There is not enough "buyers" at this point in the cycle for them to even take that risk.  Older entities are less likely to jump in, I think as the next generation of people grow up in a digital world and start taking over these companies it will be less taboo for them to jump into our market.  It will be a slow trail to mainstream adoption for physical crypto coins but I do think it will come.  Nothing wrong with having a little fun along the way. 

I think that a highly trusted entity could create high-value loaded physical coins/bill/cards etc for mass consumption.
Would I trust a new startup with $10,000 or whatever in loaded value? Nah.
What about if The Canadian Mint created them, or a major bank issued them and said that they guaranteed (or even had insurance on) each loaded BTC? Yeah, I'd probably trust that.
Not to say such entities are lining up to create physical bitcoins.

I'm a fan of loaded coins, but I tend to agree, nominal amounts on the coin are preferable.  Although we dont know where usd valuation will be on the load digital value in 10 years time. 

I know you were saying “new manufacturers” but one problem I have with the trustless setup and my own coins is that 1) I like to use vanity addresses as they are cool, & 2) I don’t trust paper for storing BTC long term so I engrave addresses on metal. While it is concerning that an individual could have access to so many loaded keys, I have yet to figure out a better way than to publish a complete and transparent list of addresses so that the community can observe any wrongdoing. While this isn’t the most proactive solution, it is one I wish more coin manufacturers followed with their mass produced products.

Yes...I would only buy low denomination loaded coins..nothing near 1 BTC. 0.001btc is my comfort range. Unless the coinmaker is a person in my inner circle..then I can see 0.1BTC to be my max loaded purchase.

New manufacturers should either offer self loading with your own keys or sell coins with nominal amounts on them.

No way in hell would I ever choose to trust a newly arrived nobody with one full BTC. Those days are now gone. Even plenty of the non nobodies raped their customers.

Elias...I agree that with Casascius and Bitbills there should never be any worries on risking any loaded BTC items..especially on the bull run btc had last year and the 20k price we peaked at.
    But we have been collectors for years and have seen how solid certain coin makers are as well as the solid reputations they have gained thru time. For the newbie or novice entering our hobby it is different..especially when people have to pay thousands to buy 1BTC compared to early times when btc was much cheaper.

Because of the trust issue, I don't believe any new coin maker can achieve that level of common trust. Considering Mike started making his coins in 2011 when BTC was $1, the fact that not one coin has been compromised at $100, $1,000, or $20,000 successively lowers the probability that he kept the keys or that they could be compromised in any way. Another factor is time; 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, 25 years etc.. as time goes on, its exponentially less likely that someone will dig up the keys somehow, even if they were hypothetically stored on some laptop or printer that was sold to someone on craigslist (for the record, I have no reason to believe this is the case, Mike was very careful with data security). Couple that with the fact that there has never yet been a good fake, nor a coin with an illegible or otherwise corrupted private key.

 You have to place lots of trust in the coinmaker in that the private keys created for the coins had not been stored in anyway. Many people might not have that trust. Especially knowing certain coinmakers swept away the btc or screwed up the private keys.

  But then again...time will tell. I had never heard of Mike...but still placed an order thru him. So yeah I took a chance back then. That risk paid off in that it opened up a door to an exciting and unique hobby that keeps me entertained till this day. Not to mention all the great people I got to meet in here and in person who share the same enthusiasm in physical collectables.

  

One of the odd things is that throughout this megabull interest in Casascius coins seemed pretty much as flat as ever. You would've expected some uptick in arousal.

Perhaps they have to be forgotten to be rediscovered again but I expected more enthusiasm.

You may be right. At that point, provenance will become increasingly important, just as it is in the traditional art world. I believe the market for these coins will be more akin to the art/antique market, as opposed to the traditional rare coin market. Coin collectors almost exclusively care about currency issued by governments, whereas others collect things like subway tokens and poker chips, and physical bitcoins belong to neither of those categories.

For all the coin brokering I've done, usually in larger quantities, I've issued certificates with the coins numbers and even photos, and all the info I have about provenance. I think certificates like these will become more commonplace. I am launching a service to issue these types of certificates digitally or physically.
I believe that eventually, the coins will be in so many hands that this forum will only see a small fraction of the trading that takes place.

I think indistinguishable fakes will be along at some point and then things are going to get a bit shaky.

All the stuff that's put up as fake at the moment is nowhere near a concerted attempt at a forgery, it's just a bit of a rip off that looks similar.

I believe that even decades from now, Casascious coins will be the 'face' or popular image of bitcoin to a significant extent. It's just perfectly fitting; if bitcoin is a digital cash/gold, it makes perfect sense that its mascot should be a gold-colored coin with the Bitcoin symbol that connects the physical to the digital. Right now the first part of that applies, but I think eventually more people will appreciate the way the coin combines physical ownership & keys to digital assets. And just like bitcoins, they are finite (and decreasing!) in supply.
As such, I believe that as long as we have Bitcoin and even (especially?) if we didn't, Casascious coins will be sought after.

I think that dollar value premiums of coins will continue increasing, even for peeled coins. I believe peeled coins will become highly sought after, with loaded coins being out of reach of anyone but the most serious collectors.

I don't think we will see a 'bull market' in the coins in the way we have before, in that a 1btc loaded coin commonly goes for over 2btc. This is because most of the people currently holding these coins don't think of BTC in its current value but as ~$10,000-$100,000. In that line of thinking, maying five or six figures to speculate on a collectible is not easy to justify.

One of the questions is whether coins should be valued in BTC or USD. My view is that the digital value should always be given in BTC because the loaded amount is stable, and the 'premium' should be thought of in USD terms. Suppose we considered 1.5 BTC to be fair for a 1 BTC loaded coin (let's ignore the BCH etc). Surely if BTC fell to $10, nobody would be selling their coins at a $5 premium, whereas if it rose to $1,000,000, few would consider paying $500,000 extra for a 'normal' 2013 brass Casascius (rare versions might be an exception though). In the first scenario, we can easily imagine a value of $100 meaning 10 BTC premium whereas the second scenario might have a $100,000 premium meaning 0.1 BTC.

Overall, I think Casascious coins are excellent ways to hold BTC for the long term without being tempted to panic sell, daytrade, or invest it in a stupid way. Do I think you can 'make money' with them in the short term? probably not. in any case, you are holding a piece of history and you should continue doing so. This goes for all physical coins, as well as early crypto art and such.

Fair point and I agree with you. Though I'm still shocked at the amount of money swapped for something like a badly executed cat graphic.

Apples to potatoes man. No point of comparing those things, as they where designed for different people, with completely varying approach to collectibles and memorabilia. Hype versus long term nostalgia based value store. Money grabber versus craftsmanship that can only be appreciated by many after longer periods of time.
I think there is still place for physical coins. Especially those minted from precious metals. 

Casascius coins are way undervalued .

Considering something so silly was priced this high at the time of sale... 
“CryptoKitties, an Ethereum blockchain-based game that allows users to breed, trade, and sell digital cats, may have scored the most expensive in-app purchase to date with the sale of a CryptoKitty named Dragon for approximately $170,000, or the equivalent of 600 ETH in cryptocurrency. “

I always thought that even if btc is going to 0, casacius will end in a museum, but it needs 30 more years for that perhaps.

if BTC becomes super valuable which is the most likely outcome for me then many crypto rich will try to get a coin that represent physically their wealth.

Disadvantage of sending cheap things thru mail is that tracking costs probably a big % of the mount traded yet with escrow and tracked mail it should go neat.

I'm UK based so flying over to mainland Europe is not a big deal. However going to America is another story. Maybe factor in price of secure face to face physical delivery.

I think bitcoin existence awareness has raised considerabily since last pump yet however adoption is a must if crypto itself should pervale, can't get tired to tell people to tell people with a business they know to accept bitcoin, it is kinda sad to see people own a business and use crypto for years and don't mention it. Others open legit services yet they don't have a market since low adoption, at this very point and even earlier I haven't thought bitcoin is spendable since it's limited mintage/supply.

That's the thing I think casascius just opened up a genre (well bitbills but not to the extent cas did), what the next wave of manufacturers make hopefully bring it more mainstream as bitcoin keeps growing.  We'll see I guess

Also, interesting to note that I don't believe anyone has actually been arrested for selling funded coins yet.  However, many people wrongly believe that nobody is partaking in this activity.  It will be interesting to see who they make an example out of as you can still find new loaded coins being marketed today and if these regulations will be applied only to those manufacturing new physical crypto coins or if Casascius resales will eventually be targeted as well.

https://news.bitcoin.com/regulations-have-ruined-the-physical-bitcoin-industry/

I sold too many in 2015-2016. Everything goes into safety deposit box now. Original casascious and lealana coins will be the Mickey Mantle rookie cards of the next generation.

I look forward to seeing this innovation's value be realized, so that the innovations that came after can be fully appreciated as well.

If you are in the united states and sending within the country, usps registered mail is pretty tight, but I get your point, its nerve wracking

  Good point BUT its also an very important part of NUMISTMATIC history as well. Unique in its own right the way a coin has both physical and digital value in one place.

Agree.....Sometimes you will need to physically take them yourself. Would never risk that kind of crypto value with any delivery system unless its your truly. 

I will 
Though Its pretty worrying sending such high value items by post. I don't think Its something I'd risk.

That is true.
Most people that have got into bitcoin these last couple of years haven't even heard of them even though Casascius coins are such and important part of bitcoin history .

I only think we scratched the surface with the physical crypto market.  As more and more coins get peeled, the harder it will be to find loaded cas coins.  There will be a point in time that these coins get their proper due in legit auction houses.  If owning these become "trendy", sky's the limit on price.

When the other 99.9999999999% of the people in the world find out these exist. They are going to be very dear.

To be fair, it does make sure the keys were properly placed on coins. I believe gravitates coins had some issues with private key redemption as well.

Oh I definetly believe in physical crypto coins, their actual price can be exagerated yet I really like initiatives like satoricoin.
Casascius are more of collectible coins yet satori could be a peel off and refund by the same companies they spent on, we really need to get bitcoin more widely accepted and offer workers to get paid in crypto.
Edit:
I know of a bunch of people that peels coins just to see if they actualy contain the funds.
Including myself.
Done it once.

Speaking for myself as a crypto collector...I am still a hodler of these beauties and I am sure the best is yet to come.

Whatever you do, please do not peel. Please sell to us in here!  

I have a few Casascius coins myself but seems I could've missed out on the bull cycle for these .
I still believe they will be very sought after and valuable in the future .
Interested to hear how community here see things panning out?