[TIP] Downloading Wallet needs faster than 54Mbps, or has problems.

QuintLeo

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Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 25, 2016, 08:13:49 PM

Here 3G zte mf180 USB modem connects at 3Mbps, Windows Task Manager, Network Status, etc...
Connection rate and data rate are different...

Very much so, as I recall my connection rate reported by Windows was something crazy high like 8 or 10 MB/s even though the actual speed of the actual connection was tons slower.
BTW, my experience with anything ZTE has been uniformly negative - IMO ZTE builds JUNK and should be ignored.

This is actualy the norm for anything resembling a serial modem, back in the days when dial-up was common most modems had a connection to the computer that was a lot faster then the actual modem connection speed (mostly because of data compression being common in 9600 baud and later modems).

As far as your 2GB cap goes - I was on one of the Virgin Mobile "Unlimited" connections - my SPEED got capped at 5GB downloaded after about the first year when they unilaterally changed the plan to a semi-capped plan, but the speed cap was pretty close to the NORMAL speed I saw and was pretty much unnoticeable as a result.

Unfortunately, unlimited seems to be pretty much dead on cellular connections - even that old Virgin plan got phased out and only folks that already had it and kept it current could still use it.

And yes, I'm aware that it varies - not just by country, but sometimes by area IN a country and always by vendor.

JuanPabloCuervo

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3G Speed & $$$ is different in every country of the world....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3G#Data_rates

Here 3G zte mf180 USB modem connects at 3Mbps, Windows Task Manager, Network Status, etc...
Connection rate and data rate are different...

WiFi 54Mbps cannot go faster than 2MB/s Data rate, "30% of the connect rate, or 16.2Mbps",
give or take +/-15%.

Same happens with 3G, here connects at 3Mbps but data rate is lower.
Data rate of aprox 112k~128K or 0.1Mbps.

Downloading 96GB at 128k is 768.000seconds or 12.800 minutes or 213 hours or 9 days... Assuming perfect Continious signal, here Bitcoin network is never continious, 3G also not perfect.
1000MB = 1GB
1MB = 1024kb

Here 4G LTE data rate is usually 10Mbps down, 18Mbps up.
Maximum down I've seen here is 18Mbps down with a 4G LTE modem.

Best possible wireless Datarate =50% connection rate. Inside a faraday cage.

Here 3G/4G are limited to 2GB of data per $$$ charge, $17usd.
Here the charge $$$ expires at 30 days or 2GB.

To download 96GB from 3G/4G here I need to pay $816usd. = Useless.

Here Fiber optic modem at 25Mbps down "3MB/s" & 10Mbps "1.25MB" Up is $70usd. /Month.

Quote from: QuintLeo on September 25, 2016, 06:32:46 PM

You apprear to have a bad or flaky adapter.

I was able to get Bitcoin-QT synched on a very poor throughput (commonly 200-400 Kbps - BITS not BYTES) 3g cell connection a couple of years back.

Was it slow? YES.
Did it have to restart a few times 'cause the connect was flaky? YES.
Did it work? YES.

I will concede that the blockchain was "only" about 60GB at the time.

I was then able to mine with multiple ASIC miners on that connection with the only issue being a slightly high reject rate due to poor latancy.

3G is not "useless", though it can be painfully slow.

And as it happens, in my case the bottleneck WAS the download time, though Bitcoin-QT is PAINFULLY slow on its pre-allocate routine.

3G does NOT mean "3 Mbps" - it means 3'd Generation cellular. The FASTEST 3G is capable of in theory is about 1.5Mbps, but in practice it tends to be a lot slower than that.

By YOUR so-called logic, a 4G cell (current LTE for example) would be a 4Mbps connection - but they're actually more like 50 in theory and commmonly well in excess of 10.

If you don't know what you are talking about, you should just stop talking.

QuintLeo

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You apprear to have a bad or flaky adapter.

I was able to get Bitcoin-QT synched on a very poor throughput (commonly 200-400 Kbps - BITS not BYTES) 3g cell connection a couple of years back.

Was it slow? YES.
Did it have to restart a few times 'cause the connect was flaky? YES.
Did it work? YES.

I will concede that the blockchain was "only" about 60GB at the time.

I was then able to mine with multiple ASIC miners on that connection with the only issue being a slightly high reject rate due to poor latancy.

3G is not "useless", though it can be painfully slow.

And as it happens, in my case the bottleneck WAS the download time, though Bitcoin-QT is PAINFULLY slow on its pre-allocate routine.

3G does NOT mean "3 Mbps" - it means 3'd Generation cellular. The FASTEST 3G is capable of in theory is about 1.5Mbps, but in practice it tends to be a lot slower than that.

By YOUR so-called logic, a 4G cell (current LTE for example) would be a 4Mbps connection - but they're actually more like 50 in theory and commmonly well in excess of 10.

If you don't know what you are talking about, you should just stop talking.

unamis76

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Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 02:16:10 PM

Using faster internet access to download 95GB is a false tip?

No, but saying that downloading the blockchain wirelessly is very difficult and/or impossible/extremely problematic, and that it may result in corrupted block data, is.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 02:16:10 PM

Prove you can download 95GB with Wireless 1Mbps, or stop writing. LOL.

Anyone here would, if we had access to such slow connection...

achow101

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Just writing some code

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 02:16:10 PM

This is TECHNICAL SUPPORT Forum, Moderators are here to give Advice, answer question and Solve problems.
That's the whole reason for a TECHNICAL SUPPORT.

Uh. No. That is not what mods here are supposed to do. In fact, Tech support has not had a mod until a few days ago. The Mods' job is to keep spam down.

The job of giving advice is for everyone who posts here.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 02:16:10 PM

Using faster internet access to download 95GB is a false tip?
Then you say using a slow internet is a Valid?

It is not a false tip, but it is not a solution either. It is entirely possible and fine to download the blockchain on slow internet, it may just take a long time.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 02:16:10 PM

The slowest internet access is a Cellphone with 3G, there are cheap 3G modems, I have 2.
3G means 3 Mbps.

Wireless 3Mbps is completly & absolute useless.

Again, please stop spreading false information. It is not useless, you do not have definitive proof that it is useless. You have only tested one case, not all possible cases of low speed wireless internet. Many other people here have, and they have had no problems.

Lauda

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Terminated.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 02:16:10 PM

This is TECHNICAL SUPPORT Forum, Moderators are here to give Advice, answer question and Solve problems.

False again. The moderators moderate the forum, and do not have to respond to any threads should they chose not to, especially not in this section.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 02:16:10 PM

You have demonstrated you have no idea what the word Support means. LOL.

You didn't ask for support, you made a thread titled "[TIP]" which gives out false or misleading information at best.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 02:16:10 PM

Using faster internet access to download 95GB is a false tip? Then you say using a slow internet is Valid?

Again, the download speed is likely not going to be the bottleneck but rather the validation time.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 02:16:10 PM

Wireless 3Mbps is completly & absolute useless.

Useless != doesn't work.

JuanPabloCuervo

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Quote from: Lauda on September 22, 2016, 01:51:58 PM

They don't have to give any better theory, as you've clearly demonstrated that you have no idea how Bitcoin (specifically Bitcoin Core) works.

This is TECHNICAL SUPPORT Forum, Moderators are here to give Advice, answer question and Solve problems.
That's the whole reason for a TECHNICAL SUPPORT.

You have demonstrated you have no idea what the word Support means. LOL.

Quote from: Lauda on September 22, 2016, 01:51:58 PM

It's best to admit it and start learning from your mistakes, otherwise you'll end up spreading false "tips" to other users.

Using faster internet access to download 95GB is a false tip?
Then you say using a slow internet is Valid?

The slowest internet access is a Cellphone with 3G, there are cheap 3G USB modems, I have 2x ZTE brand.
3G means 3 Mbps.

Wireless 3Mbps is completly & absolute useless.

Prove you can download 95GB with Wireless 1Mbps, or stop writing. LOL.

achow101

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Just writing some code

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 01:48:49 PM

FACT #1. I had troubles with Wi-Fi 54Mbps USB adapter #1 rtl8187
FACT #2. I had troubles with Wi-Fi 144Mbps USB adapter #2 rtl8192sl

In my experience USB Wi-Fi adapters can be flaky and result in corrupted data. Have you tried using a PCI-e Wi-Fi adapter? I have, and it has rarely failed me.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 01:48:49 PM

FACT #3. Wi-Fi USB has more ping/latency than Ethernet PCIe.
FACT #8. Ethernet has less ping than Wi-Fi.

No shit sherlock. Wired internet is ALWAYS faster than wireless.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 01:48:49 PM

FACT #4. I'm far from other peers.

Doesn't really make much of a difference, especially if you have fiber, as you claim to. That also has absolutely nothing to do with WiFi.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 01:48:49 PM

FACT #5. had same troubles in Linux & Windows, 32-bit & 64-Bit, different HDD's.
FACT #6. Had troubles with all versions of BitCoin core I tested. 0.6.3 0.8.5 0.10 0.11 0.12 0.13
FACT #7. I had 0 problems with cable, Ethernet 1Gbps Cat5e, Realtek GBE PCIe controller. rtl8168

Sounds like you have a hardware problem. Maybe a flaky USB Wi-Fi adapter?

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 01:48:49 PM

FACT #9. I don't see you giving a better theory.

Theory: USB Wi-Fi adapters are flaky and result in corrupted data. Try using a PCI-e WI-Fi adapter at the same speeds. I don't think there will be a problem there.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 01:48:49 PM

FACT #10. I don't see you giving a better advice.

Read my post history, read my trust. Most people think I give good advice, that's how I got promoted to Mod of this section.

Lauda

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Terminated.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 01:48:49 PM

FACT #9. I don't see you giving a better theory.
FACT #10. I don't see you giving a better advice.
-snip-

They don't have to give any better theory, as you've clearly demonstrated that you have no idea how Bitcoin (specifically Bitcoin Core) works. It's best to admit it and start learning from your mistakes, otherwise you'll end up spreading false "tips" to other users.

I don't even get your "theory" here. Are you referring to this part?

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 21, 2016, 04:03:53 PM

Seems that BitCoin Wallet / Network needs near 3MB/s or 25Mbps.

Because this is wrong, and Bitcoin will sync up fine at 1 Mbps.

JuanPabloCuervo

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FACT #1. I had troubles with Wi-Fi 54Mbps USB adapter #1 rtl8187
FACT #2. I had troubles with Wi-Fi 144Mbps USB adapter #2 rtl8192sl
FACT #3. Wi-Fi USB has more ping/latency than Ethernet PCIe.
FACT #4. I'm far from other peers.
FACT #5. had same troubles in Linux & Windows, 32-bit & 64-Bit, different HDD's.
FACT #6. Had troubles with all versions of BitCoin core I tested. 0.6.3 0.8.5 0.10 0.11 0.12 0.13
FACT #7. I had 0 problems with cable, Ethernet 1Gbps Cat5e, Realtek GBE PCIe controller. rtl8168
FACT #8. Ethernet has less ping than Wi-Fi.
FACT #9. I don't see you giving a better theory.
FACT #10. I don't see you giving a better advice.

Quote from: achow101 on September 22, 2016, 01:02:53 PM

Please, stop. Stop posting when you don't know what you are talking about. Stop posting information as a fact; 99% of the time it isn't a fact but rather just what you think is happening.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 12:15:23 PM

All downloads Work well, the problem with Bitcoin is that when downloads from 0, must process and index at same time, if latency is too much will loose sync.
Because my fiber optic modem goes faster than Wi-Fi 54Mbps, there is a bottleneck that causes problems.

All other downloads, download first, install later when download is finish.
Not installing and downloading at same time.

Installing what? There is nothing being installed. This is how a lot of software works when data is being persisted, it will create files on the fly and write to them. Nothing is being installed here.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 12:15:23 PM

That's why .dat file size was reduced from 2GB to 130.000KB in Newer Bitcoin versions.

What does that have to do with anything? Bitcoin Core isn't downloading files from other clients. It is downloading raw data and writing that raw data to the disk.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 12:15:23 PM

When installing from the HDD/SSD, the timers are in sync,
When installing from the Web, timers are Async, any jitter, latency, will cause problems. "If you are far from nodes."

If CPU & HDD wait too much for information, the OS will detect that as a FAiL.
Also called High iowait.
http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/11304/high-iowait-while-the-wmb-s-is-low

Downloading first and installing later, will require 2x the size 200GB today, using the HDD/SSD as a buffer of the Bitcoin network, not forcing HDD install like -reindex

What are you talking about? What does that have to do with anything with downloading blocks from other nodes?

achow101

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Just writing some code

Please, stop. Stop posting when you don't know what you are talking about. Stop posting information as a fact; 99% of the time it isn't a fact but rather just what you think is happening.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 12:15:23 PM

All downloads Work well, the problem with Bitcoin is that when downloads from 0, must process and index at same time, if latency is too much will loose sync.
Because my fiber optic modem goes faster than Wi-Fi 54Mbps, there is a bottleneck that causes problems.

All other downloads, download first, install later when download is finish.
Not installing and downloading at same time.

Installing what? There is nothing being installed. This is how a lot of software works when data is being persisted, it will create files on the fly and write to them. Nothing is being installed here.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 12:15:23 PM

That's why .dat file size was reduced from 2GB to 130.000KB in Newer Bitcoin versions.

What does that have to do with anything? Bitcoin Core isn't downloading files from other clients. It is downloading raw data and writing that raw data to the disk.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 22, 2016, 12:15:23 PM

When installing from the HDD/SSD, the timers are in sync,
When installing from the Web, timers are Async, any jitter, latency, will cause problems. "If you are far from nodes."

If CPU & HDD wait too much for information, the OS will detect that as a FAiL.
Also called High iowait.
http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/11304/high-iowait-while-the-wmb-s-is-low

Downloading first and installing later, will require 2x the size 200GB today, using the HDD/SSD as a buffer of the Bitcoin network, not forcing HDD install like -reindex

What are you talking about? What does that have to do with anything with downloading blocks from other nodes?

JuanPabloCuervo

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Quote from: Lauda on September 22, 2016, 05:57:14 AM

I don't think this problem has anything to do with Bitcoin Core specifically. The problem is that horrible Wifi adapter that you're using. Alternatively, you can try downloading a similar amount of other content in order to prove this hypothesis.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 21, 2016, 04:03:53 PM

Seems that BitCoin Wallet / Network needs near 3MB/s or 25Mbps.

This isn't correct. You can download at pretty much any speed. Even 1 mbps is fine, it is just going to take a while. The bottleneck is likely not going to be the connection anyways, but rather validation.

I Don't have anything of 95GB to download, the Need For Speed the Run game from Origin can be downloaded,
Is something like 9GB... Not 95GB Continious.

Downloading Windows 10 32-bit & 64-bit was something like 6GB... With Microsoft downloader.

All downloads Work well, the problem with Bitcoin is that when downloads from 0, must process and index at same time, if latency is too much will loose sync.
Because my fiber optic modem goes faster than Wi-Fi 54Mbps, there is a bottleneck that causes problems.

All other downloads, download first, install later when download is finish.
Not installing and downloading at same time.

That's why .dat file size was reduced from 2GB to 130.000KB in Newer Bitcoin versions.

When installing from the HDD/SSD, the timers are in sync,
When installing from the Web, timers are Async, any jitter, latency, will cause problems. "If you are far from nodes."

If CPU & HDD wait too much for information, the OS will detect that as a FAiL.
Also called High iowait.
http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/11304/high-iowait-while-the-wmb-s-is-low

Downloading first and installing later, will require 2x the size 200GB today, using the HDD/SSD as a buffer of the Bitcoin network, not forcing HDD install like -reindex

unamis76

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Increasing size is just the normal evolution of the blockchain. More blocks, bigger size... I agree with Lauda, probably something in your particular wifi adapter or router. What's the wireless hardware you use?

Lauda

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Terminated.

I don't think this problem has anything to do with Bitcoin Core specifically. The problem is that horrible Wifi adapter that you're using. Alternatively, you can try downloading a similar amount of other content in order to prove this hypothesis.

Quote from: JuanPabloCuervo on September 21, 2016, 04:03:53 PM

Seems that BitCoin Wallet / Network needs near 3MB/s or 25Mbps.

This isn't correct. You can download at pretty much any speed. Even 1 mbps is fine, it is just going to take a while. The bottleneck is likely not going to be the connection anyways, but rather validation.

JuanPabloCuervo

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Quote from: unamis76 on September 21, 2016, 05:46:29 PM

What kind of problems did you have? I've downloaded from wifi without issues previously in the past...

yes 4 years ago when Wallet size was 500MB, was easy.
Today it's 94GB.

Most Wi-Fi adapters overheat if used continuously at full speed.
Not all Wi-Fi are the same...

JuanPabloCuervo

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https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/corrupted-wallets-since-013-1622791
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-core-v121-stuck-at-activating-best-chain-again-1581609
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/dissapointed-with-bitcoin-other-alternatives-1581792

unamis76

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What kind of problems did you have? I've downloaded from wifi without issues previously in the past...

JuanPabloCuervo

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had lots of troubles downloading blocks from 0...

removed the WiFi 54Mbps USB adapter, and installed a trusty 1Gbps Cat5e cable, problem solved...
downloads in 1 pass, no -reindex.

In Theory 54Mbps is 6.75MB/s but because has error correction, data cannot go faster than 2MB/s.
latency, ping is also a bit higher...
similar happens with USB2.0 480Mbps cannot go faster than 35MB/s. "480Mbps = 60MB/s"

using the common RTL8187

Seems that BitCoin Wallet / Network needs near 3MB/s or 25Mbps.
definitely more than what Wi-Fi 54Mbps can give.
cables are awesome.

yes i did tested different Wi-Fi channels manually for best performance. 54Mbps cannot go faster than 2MB/s.

Topic: [TIP] Downloading Wallet needs faster than 54Mbps, or has problems. (Read 1523 times)