Topic: [TiPS 2.0] Voting Thread For The New Strategy (Read 1585 times)

I also like the hosted exchange conversion method. we can discuss/vote on that when we get there if somebody wants another method, but I think with the exchange it's easiest. the large number listed as a strength is meant that people can tip with a lot of coins instead of fractions, but with the current supply it's really too much that one can tip with millions of coins. so we'll reduce the number by a factor of 100-1000 and we'd still be able to tip with a multiple while avoiding the problem as you're correctly stating. Here is my reasoning as posted above:

"yah I agree on that, I think it makes sense to ask ourselves first how much should one TiPS be valued at in $ after it appreciates and reaches its fair value. Since we want it to be used in tipping in the first place I think it would be better to tip with a multiple of coins and not fractions, so that would put the value of one TiPS at let's say 1 dollar cent. so tipping a waiter with 100 tips or so is nice, and if the value increases further we still have room to go down to 10 and 1 TiPS.

We currently have a market cap of about $50k, and we were once at $2M last year just because of enthusiasm without the services we want to offer. I think any decent coin with something to offer would have a cap of at least $5M, and that in terms of 2013-2014 total cryptocurrency market cap. With the increasing popularity and spread of cryptocurrency I'm sure this number will keep going up in the coming years and I'm guessing the very successful coins in 2015 will have a cap of $50M+.

so I will project a reasonable cap for TiPS say mid 2015 at around $5M, ie 100 times the current value which is really not a big deal in crypto and we saw that happen last year to many coins based on hype alone. For this cap it would require a count of 500M coins total to get a value of $1cent per 1TiPS. This will be the total available, with POS algo, so we can increase the count by say 5% p.a., and when we are hopefully successful and new start-ups from the community start making new businesses etc and market cap grows further, we would have a x100 growth room with value of 1TiPS still in the desirable range of 1-100 cent, and with POS adjusting the value as well for a growing market. Is this reasonable?"

The insane supply of this coin seems to be the main problem, though it's still listed as a strength for whatever reason.

In what manner are you most likely to do the supply reduction?

I see people talking about mostly about burning. Why not try to get some kind of hosted exchange conversion where you transition to the reduced supply fork?

it seems to be the case. but main thing we know your vote. and it seems no body is opposed to the proposal so far 

I think the problem of having had so many coins, the owners of which are not active, can be solved too through the swap. we could actually leave this blockchain operating just as it is now, so the old owners won't lose their coins if they decided to come back, but they won't be on the TiPS 2.0 chain. The members who decide to swap, would send their coins which will get burned, and receive the new ones. and we create an entirely new blockchain with POS and the reduced amount. this way, hoarding won't be that bad either because the members who keep their coins to stake will be supporting the network. I think decay over time is not a good idea as was shown with Freicoin, because nobody wants their value to diminish over time but increase which POS and participation in new businesses with dividends will achieve.
burning lotteries might be an additional method to the traditional swapping if somebody builds that and offers such prizes, while taking a percentage as his business model for doing that.
sounds reasonable?

I agree that there are too many coins, it makes it difficult to trade, ie there are next to no BTC/TIPS exchanges and if so there is no volume rendering it useless.

I am also concerned about the sheer amount already out there relative to the progress as a concurrency. I am not opposed to early adopters being rewarded for getting in early however from the maths an estimate of 130 Billion were mined in the first 52000 blocks and about 195 Billion in the first 104000 blocks, currently in order of 367000 which equates to about 305 Billion. Of which only 680 Million is (based on Fedoracoin Foundation donations) is actively trying to advance the coin.

I believe the culture of most Altcoins is to get in early hoard and wait and see. This kind of thing is what is killing Fedoracoin because with the numbers above, early adopters are doing nothing to spread and enhance the coin and you are almost better off scrapping the coin as it is and starting afresh, except you will likely see the same thing happen again.

The current talk of reducing the number of coins I am guessing is a flat scaling like there will be a total of 500 Billion and we want to get that down to 1 Billion, so all coins will now be divided by 500.  Instead of going straight to flat scaling, I would like to see a mechanism which deters hoarding, like a decay over time of long term unused coins.

Another idea which I had for burning coins (thus reducing the total number) would be to host a series of burning lotteries in which a prize is drawn and the entries would be the coins burned. This would have the added effect of attaching a real value to the coins which might be worth buying to burn to get a chance to win, much like how cryptsy points work.

Perhaps it is because I am new to the forum it is not allowing me to vote on polls, perhaps to avoid people making accounts to manipulate voting.

yah I agree on that, I think it makes sense to ask ourselves first how much should one TiPS be valued at in $ after it appreciates and reaches its fair value. Since we want it to be used in tipping in the first place I think it would be better to tip with a multiple of coins and not fractions, so that would put the value of one TiPS at let's say 1 dollar cent. so tipping a waiter with 100 tips or so is nice, and if the value increases further we still have room to go down to 10 and 1 TiPS.

We currently have a market cap of about $50k, and we were once at $2M last year just because of enthusiasm without the services we want to offer. I think any decent coin with something to offer would have a cap of at least $5M, and that in terms of 2013-2014 total cryptocurrency market cap. With the increasing popularity and spread of cryptocurrency I'm sure this number will keep going up in the coming years and I'm guessing the very successful coins in 2015 will have a cap of $50M+.

so I will project a reasonable cap for TiPS say mid 2015 at around $5M, ie 100 times the current value which is really not a big deal in crypto and we saw that happen last year to many coins based on hype alone. For this cap it would require a count of 500M coins total to get a value of $1cent per 1TiPS. This will be the total available, with POS algo, so we can increase the count by say 5% p.a., and when we are hopefully successful and new start-ups from the community start making new businesses etc and market cap grows further, we would have a x100 growth room with value of 1TiPS still in the desirable range of 1-100 cent, and with POS adjusting the value as well for a growing market. Is this reasonable?

Just wanted to make it known that I am also seeing this issue, no option to vote and none of the options appear in bold, also currently logged in, relativley new account, not sure if I may need permission or a certian membership level to vote. still for this idea though!

hm really strange. I think it should just work, really have no idea!

edit: what options are available (usually "show results" if you didn't vote)? if one line is in bold then you have already voted.
or take a screenshot and post it here.

I would drop the number of coins to maybe one billion or less.

I think everything else sounds reasonable

Pretty certain I am logged in, but I don't get the option to vote. Is there an additional registration to be able  to vote?

Its a yes from me, read all of these proposals in the past and happy to see someone taking a stand to make them happen

of course our community will be happy to see new members, you're welcome to join and weigh in
Also if interested programmers are around please make a comment or PM me, we are looking for new talented devs!

edit: our current main thread is here.

Ladies and Gentlemen I present to you..



Current Obstacles:
We have some issues which we need to solve, and some fundamental changes would solve those and put us in a strong starting position. We need to avoid the following problems:

• 1. No funding available to pay for developers, websites or any new endeavours. This problem is already on the list of issues we need to solve, but the suggestions I’m going to propose next might also be a viable solution.
• 2. As soon as price of TIPS goes to the 50ltc again, we will probably face the exact same problem that caused the sell off in the first place: Miners getting a lot of tips then dumping them. This means until maybe 80% of the coins are mined, we will not be able to get the price higher. Is that a problem? I don’t know, you tell me
• 3. Being on the ltc market instead of btc means we are dependent on the success of ltc and other cheap coins, and volumes there are always lower than btc meaning lower volumes for us and less success.

Current strengths of TIPS

• A coin mixing service (needs transaction volume) that provides a level of anonymity
• A large number of coins ( too large ?? )
• The symbol TIPS
• w/fedoracoin payments system https://pay.withfedoraco.in/

Plan layout

• Redesign TiPS 2.0 with optimal choices of algorithms.
• Focus on project building, business and value creation. Businesses are designed and developed by the community through groups of collaboration.
• We will create an entire economy, study what markets we need to cover and expand in a constructive way that each new market supports and depends on other areas we cover. We will be a fruitful environment that produces new successful businesses through support and coordinated planning.

We need to define our goals and markets where TIPS will offer its services and concentrate on that:
discuss on forum what markets we want to target… See this post

TiPS 2.0 - Proposal for a New Start
Our coin is now at the lowest prices it has ever been at (regarding price per coin) after a continuous drop caused majorly by multipools mining and dumping. Now we either can come up with a new plan and ways to counter that and reinvent ourselves, or I see no hope for TiPS to survive for another year. A few other things we need to deal with are listed in the TiPS Plan document along with possible solutions. But the fundamental suggestions to consider are listed here and need to be discussed and decided upon by the community.

Fundamental Changes
Basic issues to solve and go beyond:

• 1. Switch to POS - reasons:
  multipools: they make money by mining TiPS instead of the community, dump and hurt TiPS. Vs POS algorithm where the community supports the network instead of hardware owners and the community gets rewarded with the new TiPS through this. This would support the price as well since less people would be selling and preferring to stake. If we make progress and go up to 50lit while still on the POW algo, remember that multipools will jump right in again and mine and dump our coin to oblivion just like they did before.
  reserve a pre-mine for development support! This will solve our problem of lack of funds and we can pay programmers, designers etc and afford to do all kinds of things that cost money. Otherwise not sure donations would be enough for us to do the job. Objections to a premine usually stem from lack of trust, which I’m sure is an issue that can be solved somehow without throwing out the idea altogether, eg. multisig fund account managed by a voted for list of members. Besides it’s the same trust issue if we would do that only through donations.
• 2. Reduce total count of coins - reasons:
  Being on the ltc market instead of btc means we are dependent on the success of ltc and other cheap coins, and volumes there are always lower than btc meaning lower volumes for us and less success. Personally I believe LTC will be dying and doesn’t really deserve to survive, they have no innovation whatsoever. Regardless, a larger market (BTC) is what we need. current wallets can swap their coins for the new TiPS 2.0 coins to hold the same percentage of total count, then start staking and earning TiPS!

In conclusion: switch to a POS algo (look into NXT algo, other community suggestions) and reduce total number of TiPS. Look into PND who succeeded in both switching to POS and reducing total count.


Further Ideas

• TiPS multipool: people with hardware wanting to earn TiPS and support it can use the pool to mine other coins then sell automatically for TiPS thereby supporting the price and earning TiPS. A part of these earnings on the TiPS multipool would then go to the development fund of TiPS to support further development and all that is needed.
• don’t fear change if it makes sense. 3lit does not indicate any change is coming soon if we don’t do that ourselves.
• similar business minded strategy to karmaShares: “If you have 5 million coins in your wallet, you automatically are a shareholder in the KarmaSHARES LLC business and can earn profits if and when there are any to distribute.” Since we want to be business focussed this would make a lot of sense, the spin-off companies generated here would issue Assets and distribute a good percentage of them to TiPS holders, similar to what BitShares is doing. Or the spin-off companies just pay out a percentage of their earnings to the nodes of TiPS. We could also learn something from how btcd is planning to distribute their network gains to the holders.
• the 5% pa. percentage or so for staking is always generated, if there are less stakers and thus supporters for the network, the total 5% will be distributed to them, thus they will generate more coins for supporting the network.
• TIPS community is what matters! community suggests all kinds of changes and votes on them and implements them. the devs etc must follow what the community wants, we all work to make things better for all.
  
• create a business development fund, it will support business ideas from the community to enable their realization. The fund will be managed also by members with more expertise who can give advice and help those projects to succeed. When the business project then starts, assets are issued and a part goes to the community, another is on the market for further investments to create a starting capital for the business.

Conclusion - TiPS 2.0
- switch from POW to POS?
- Reduce number of coins?
- Change name to TiPS only?
- new blockchain?
- premine for a development fund?
- other suggestions?
- further ideas suggested by members through chats and posts here.


Our Methods

• We are Sirs Tipsalot, keep the love moving and exchange of ideas and tips this will keep the community involved and active which is what we’re about. Make this a meme with a picture of Mr. Tipsalot (in the spirit of Mr. Men) as the theme of our forums.
• A regular "State of TiPS” newsletter, a report from our organization to keep the community up to date and raise awareness about all the things going on in our community, what’s being discussed, what are the future plans of each node etc
• Create games and memes.
• Contributing and being an uplifting spirit in the community is cool and will be rewarded and encouraged through social recognition for example. We can have an honor member of the month etc, best ideas, best posts etc. This will help shape the theme of our community and our methods of work! It will help us create a community of tireless enthusiastic creative individuals, it’s our way of being!
• PR efforts, publishing articles about upcoming things to attract attention and investors.
  what do you think of creating something similar to KarmaShares LLC? it’s a good idea to offer returns on investments in the projects we create. Holders of TiPS can be automatically share holders and be rewarded a part of the profits made through our TIPSshares.
• TiPS is the golden opportunity for a take over and a remake, by devs and investors alike. get 1B TIPS at these prices, and work on the coin to get 100-1000 times ROI in a year! what could be a better motivation for anybody really?

ps. Anonymity features might not be of value on the markets we target, also in the near future with the evolving technology it might become much easier to implement when the time is right. I’m not sure how much anonymity this provides, needs discussion with the devs, and I suggest anonymity should not be on the priority list. On a further note it might make sense for us to integrate with btcd and become a telepod terminal (but every coin to join must qualify and need to be accepted by their devs) since we have a mixing service, which would bring returns to the TiPS community from the planned super network. Or just implement their library in our code and use their API to use the telepod technology for anonymity transfers.

pps. Thanks to mouseman for the fruitful discussions and his long letters regarding TiPS 2.0!

This thread is for the TiPS community to vote on the standing issues, the new specifications etc before we start the official launch! Details will be in the comments.