Tom Lee, from bitcoin bull to bitcoin bagholder

barbara44

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on October 03, 2018, 08:39:38 PM

Quote from: Pursuer on October 03, 2018, 02:02:45 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on October 02, 2018, 10:03:40 PM

Quote from: Whosdaddy on October 02, 2018, 01:52:45 PM

Just because someone bought from high prices doesn't make him a bagholder, he can drop his averages down from buying more which as a rich person he can definitely worth doing it and probably doing it plus being behind a project means being behind it on bad days as well as good days. I have been here for over 5 years now and I am supporting bitcoin from highs and lows and really don't care where the price is going and I will still be here.

If you are not supporting bitcoin because the price went down than you are not supporting bitcoin at all and just trying to make money for yourself. Which makes you the bad people bitcoin was invented against.

That is what a bagholder would say hehehe. Bagholders say things because they are so sure that their coin will make the new highs again even if the price today is saying that there is a possibility that it might not occur.

I might appear that I am teasing you, but we should be honest with ourselves. We are taking a risk, nothing is certain.

that is stating the obvious, nothing is certain and we are taking a risk but we are talking about chances and potentials. unless you think bitcoin's potential has just ran out and the adoption has hit a brick wall and stopped there is no reason to believe price isn't going to rise up.
and the current price is not giving us any reason to believe otherwise. price is currently stable and looks more like a solid accumulation phase just like the couple of prolonged accumulation phases that bitcoin had in the past after each of its bubbles. each of which eventually led to a bigger rise.

Agreed, until there is another dump. Then we would need to adjust our estimates again and set our expectations lower.

Also, before the year ends, what would that say about Tom Lee if bitcoin does not move up on top of $10,000? Was he lying, was he naive or is he a bagholder? hehehehe

let the man be! He is just really speculating anyway and there is no harm in that, and it is not like his speculation is not reasonable, at least a lot better than those who are calling new ATH before the end of December. The thing is that we all cannot know what the market holds and surely I am certain Tom would come with another excuse if the price eventually does not get up to $10k by the end of the year but all the same, looking at the way things are presently, there could be a chance based on however the market tend towards before the end of the year, either upward breakout or downward breakout from the descending triangle.

Ewinsane

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Quote from: chickenado on October 03, 2018, 09:34:44 PM

As we all know people's who are always positive and risk taker will always successful in business or any other undertaking. Tom Lee predictions as I looked at it is still achievable because as we know bitcoins price is very volatile anything can happen from bearish to bullish if Tom Lee is very positive enough then he had foreseen a possible scenario that is why he had predicted.

I have seen Tom Lee even made reasonable deductions and conclusions before and even in as much as I do not like people who think they can tell you what the future holds, what he has said is more realistic if the market moves in a short term upwards.

It is not bad to even be optimistic anyway and if all things being equal we would get to see some pretty good movement even in the long run. You only be a bag holder if you know what you are holding does not have great value in the future, and as far as I am concerned, bitcoin is the real deal.

deisik

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English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 18, 2018, 09:16:37 PM

According to Lee, the current value of Bitcoin represents an excellent buying opportunity, and it would be a mistake to miss the train:

“The question you have to ask yourselves is, ‘Now that crypto is down here, is it appropriate to be bullish or bearish?’ And I just want to absolutely point out it is a mistake to be bearish when you’re already down. This is like looking at stocks in December 2008 and deciding you wanted to become secularly bearish, even though the bear market was ending.”

“So I think the bear market has largely run its course in crypto, and it’s been healthy. It’s been resetting capital. It’s resetting investor expectations. But most importantly, the only time you can really make money in a big way is to buy when investors aren’t buying. That’s the real opportunity."

Healthy? There's no such thing in purely speculative markets

His "resetting capital" in practice means that people are moving money from altcoins to Bitcoin, and that explains why the former had been falling off the cliff when the latter remained stable, give or take a few hundred dollars. When the reshuffle of money is over, which we may already be close to, Bitcoin may start to fall again as it runs out of the fuel and support that the crash of altcoins provided. This is a real possibility, and there is no bottom like in, for example, commodity markets

chickenado

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on October 03, 2018, 08:39:38 PM

Quote from: Pursuer on October 03, 2018, 02:02:45 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on October 02, 2018, 10:03:40 PM

Quote from: Whosdaddy on October 02, 2018, 01:52:45 PM

Just because someone bought from high prices doesn't make him a bagholder, he can drop his averages down from buying more which as a rich person he can definitely worth doing it and probably doing it plus being behind a project means being behind it on bad days as well as good days. I have been here for over 5 years now and I am supporting bitcoin from highs and lows and really don't care where the price is going and I will still be here.

If you are not supporting bitcoin because the price went down than you are not supporting bitcoin at all and just trying to make money for yourself. Which makes you the bad people bitcoin was invented against.

That is what a bagholder would say hehehe. Bagholders say things because they are so sure that their coin will make the new highs again even if the price today is saying that there is a possibility that it might not occur.

I might appear that I am teasing you, but we should be honest with ourselves. We are taking a risk, nothing is certain.

that is stating the obvious, nothing is certain and we are taking a risk but we are talking about chances and potentials. unless you think bitcoin's potential has just ran out and the adoption has hit a brick wall and stopped there is no reason to believe price isn't going to rise up.
and the current price is not giving us any reason to believe otherwise. price is currently stable and looks more like a solid accumulation phase just like the couple of prolonged accumulation phases that bitcoin had in the past after each of its bubbles. each of which eventually led to a bigger rise.

Agreed, until there is another dump. Then we would need to adjust our estimates again and set our expectations lower.

Also, before the year ends, what would that say about Tom Lee if bitcoin does not move up on top of $10,000? Was he lying, was he naive or is he a bagholder? hehehehe

As we all know people's who are always positive and risk taker will always successful in business or any other undertaking. Tom Lee predictions as I looked at it is still achievable because as we know bitcoins price is very volatile anything can happen from bearish to bullish if Tom Lee is very positive enough then he had foreseen a possible scenario that is why he had predicted.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: Pursuer on October 03, 2018, 02:02:45 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on October 02, 2018, 10:03:40 PM

Quote from: Whosdaddy on October 02, 2018, 01:52:45 PM

Just because someone bought from high prices doesn't make him a bagholder, he can drop his averages down from buying more which as a rich person he can definitely worth doing it and probably doing it plus being behind a project means being behind it on bad days as well as good days. I have been here for over 5 years now and I am supporting bitcoin from highs and lows and really don't care where the price is going and I will still be here.

If you are not supporting bitcoin because the price went down than you are not supporting bitcoin at all and just trying to make money for yourself. Which makes you the bad people bitcoin was invented against.

That is what a bagholder would say hehehe. Bagholders say things because they are so sure that their coin will make the new highs again even if the price today is saying that there is a possibility that it might not occur.

I might appear that I am teasing you, but we should be honest with ourselves. We are taking a risk, nothing is certain.

that is stating the obvious, nothing is certain and we are taking a risk but we are talking about chances and potentials. unless you think bitcoin's potential has just ran out and the adoption has hit a brick wall and stopped there is no reason to believe price isn't going to rise up.
and the current price is not giving us any reason to believe otherwise. price is currently stable and looks more like a solid accumulation phase just like the couple of prolonged accumulation phases that bitcoin had in the past after each of its bubbles. each of which eventually led to a bigger rise.

Agreed, until there is another dump. Then we would need to adjust our estimates again and set our expectations lower.

Also, before the year ends, what would that say about Tom Lee if bitcoin does not move up on top of $10,000? Was he lying, was he naive or is he a bagholder? hehehehe

pitiflin

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Quote from: Kemarit on September 19, 2018, 12:43:12 AM

LOL. Are you serious dude? That's not Tom Lee of Fundstrat, rather Tommy Lee Jones the Hollywood Actor. I don't know if you are trolling us, but it made my day. Grin

You know, the Tom Lee in the OP looks more original than the real Tom Lee that we are talking about. The real Tom Lee looks like a fat hipster who took Engineering because it sounded cool back then.

Anyhow, I don't really think Tom Lee has become a bag holder, yet, chances are that he might or he might not. But probably before you know it, he'll back as a bitcoin bull, it's the old fuck we are talking about (the picture in the OP Grin

).

BitHodler

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Quote from: Pursuer on October 03, 2018, 02:02:45 AM

price is currently stable and looks more like a solid accumulation phase just like the couple of prolonged accumulation phases that bitcoin had in the past after each of its bubbles. each of which eventually led to a bigger rise.

People not accumulating right now will definitely regret not having done so once the price starts to move up further and further. People only know what they missed out on when the opportunity is no longer there.

On the other hand, people not accumulating right now will fomo buy when they finally realize that it may be the last time they can buy at lower levels, which could function as fuel for the next leg up.

I'm ready to see threads pop up asking whether or not it's too late to buy Bitcoin at $10,000 or $15,000. Was funny how people were asking the same when we hit the $1000 mark again at the end of the previous bear market.

I don't have to tell anyone what happened after that. Tongue

Altcoins enthusiast

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 18, 2018, 09:16:37 PM

When it came to Tom Lee, nothing negative would convince him from abandoning his end of the year prediction of bitcoin reaching $20k - $25k. A new high.

In this article, he was quoted singing a different tune. Has our bitcoin bull transformed into a bitcoin bagholder? The psychological change is very clear. He is also human after all hehehe.

In any case, I agree in his new sentiment. It might be a perfect time to start buying again.

Bitcoin is not dead, and the best investment opportunities arise when the picture is not bright. This is how Tom Lee, Co-founder of Fundstrat and expert analyst of the crypto markets thinks.

According to Lee, the current value of Bitcoin represents an excellent buying opportunity, and it would be a mistake to miss the train:

“The question you have to ask yourselves is, ‘Now that crypto is down here, is it appropriate to be bullish or bearish?’ And I just want to absolutely point out it is a mistake to be bearish when you’re already down. This is like looking at stocks in December 2008 and deciding you wanted to become secularly bearish, even though the bear market was ending.”

“So I think the bear market has largely run its course in crypto, and it’s been healthy. It’s been resetting capital. It’s resetting investor expectations. But most importantly, the only time you can really make money in a big way is to buy when investors aren’t buying. That’s the real opportunity."

Read in full https://ethereumworldnews.com/tom-lee-mistake-bearish-when-youre-down/

I agree with Lee on this and the current level in bitcoin create opportunity for investors. Bitcoin is going to grow to $25000 but this year may not be the time and this might happen in some years to come.

StarofBTC

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Quote from: pooya87 on September 29, 2018, 11:25:34 PM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 29, 2018, 08:44:57 PM

~
In any case, in that situation if bitcoin has stablized, I reckon that there would be more dumping and/or more speculation in altcoins.

i think you meant more "pump and" dump in altcoins because so far it has always been like this. when bitcoin price stabilizes (even for a short period of time) the traders start looking elsewhere to make profit since it becomes hard to make profit in bitcoin that is moving 1% up and down. so this migration starts some pump and dumps in altcoins.
this is also the reason why altcoins are always dumped when bitcoin starts some sort of movement up or down. traders dump altcoins to come back to bitcoin.

Yeah, and most especially looking for a market that has already bottomed out to start their new round of speculation anyway and then we just see the same rinse and repeat process over and over again, from btc to alt and back to btc. This is the reason why until we start seeing real life adoption and usage, speculation will simply always be the norm of the day and there is nothing we can do about it.

As far as I am concerned, altcoins are just simply there for that P&D purpose which larger traders and the smart small traders have only be using to increase their stash, which is why I have always believed altcoins to just be a distraction.

fulmetal08larz

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I agree completely with Tom Lee. What we are waiting for BTC and alts is for the people to accept and use it widely accross differrent transactions to purchase goods and services. I think it's almost the same scenario with the internet, whrein people feared it at first but now, it became a necessity.

Pursuer

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Where is my ring of blades...

Quote from: bbc.reporter on October 02, 2018, 10:03:40 PM

Quote from: Whosdaddy on October 02, 2018, 01:52:45 PM

Just because someone bought from high prices doesn't make him a bagholder, he can drop his averages down from buying more which as a rich person he can definitely worth doing it and probably doing it plus being behind a project means being behind it on bad days as well as good days. I have been here for over 5 years now and I am supporting bitcoin from highs and lows and really don't care where the price is going and I will still be here.

If you are not supporting bitcoin because the price went down than you are not supporting bitcoin at all and just trying to make money for yourself. Which makes you the bad people bitcoin was invented against.

That is what a bagholder would say hehehe. Bagholders say things because they are so sure that their coin will make the new highs again even if the price today is saying that there is a possibility that it might not occur.

I might appear that I am teasing you, but we should be honest with ourselves. We are taking a risk, nothing is certain.

that is stating the obvious, nothing is certain and we are taking a risk but we are talking about chances and potentials. unless you think bitcoin's potential has just ran out and the adoption has hit a brick wall and stopped there is no reason to believe price isn't going to rise up.
and the current price is not giving us any reason to believe otherwise. price is currently stable and looks more like a solid accumulation phase just like the couple of prolonged accumulation phases that bitcoin had in the past after each of its bubbles. each of which eventually led to a bigger rise.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: Whosdaddy on October 02, 2018, 01:52:45 PM

Just because someone bought from high prices doesn't make him a bagholder, he can drop his averages down from buying more which as a rich person he can definitely worth doing it and probably doing it plus being behind a project means being behind it on bad days as well as good days. I have been here for over 5 years now and I am supporting bitcoin from highs and lows and really don't care where the price is going and I will still be here.

If you are not supporting bitcoin because the price went down than you are not supporting bitcoin at all and just trying to make money for yourself. Which makes you the bad people bitcoin was invented against.

That is what a bagholder would say hehehe. Bagholders say things because they are so sure that their coin will make the new highs again even if the price today is saying that there is a possibility that it might not occur.

I might appear that I am teasing you, but we should be honest with ourselves. We are taking a risk, nothing is certain.

Bagaji

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Well, in my opinion and not minding whoever made the speculation or prediction it will be difficult for Bitcoin to penetrate such height before end of December this year except if something positive will have to happen to Bitcoin and crypto currency in general.

Tapyaks72

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Quote from: Whosdaddy on October 02, 2018, 01:52:45 PM

Just because someone bought from high prices doesn't make him a bagholder, he can drop his averages down from buying more which as a rich person he can definitely worth doing it and probably doing it plus being behind a project means being behind it on bad days as well as good days. I have been here for over 5 years now and I am supporting bitcoin from highs and lows and really don't care where the price is going and I will still be here.

If you are not supporting bitcoin because the price went down than you are not supporting bitcoin at all and just trying to make money for yourself. Which makes you the bad people bitcoin was invented against.

The important things is the integrity of the system whatever ever the price might be, because some people believe bitcoin is an investment, for me bitcoin is a medium of payment or currency which faster and economical, the real investment is the ICO’s in which they introduce real products and services for development.

Whosdaddy

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Just because someone bought from high prices doesn't make him a bagholder, he can drop his averages down from buying more which as a rich person he can definitely worth doing it and probably doing it plus being behind a project means being behind it on bad days as well as good days. I have been here for over 5 years now and I am supporting bitcoin from highs and lows and really don't care where the price is going and I will still be here.

If you are not supporting bitcoin because the price went down than you are not supporting bitcoin at all and just trying to make money for yourself. Which makes you the bad people bitcoin was invented against.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: pooya87 on September 29, 2018, 11:25:34 PM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 29, 2018, 08:44:57 PM

~
In any case, in that situation if bitcoin has stablized, I reckon that there would be more dumping and/or more speculation in altcoins.

i think you meant more "pump and" dump in altcoins because so far it has always been like this. when bitcoin price stabilizes (even for a short period of time) the traders start looking elsewhere to make profit since it becomes hard to make profit in bitcoin that is moving 1% up and down. so this migration starts some pump and dumps in altcoins.
this is also the reason why altcoins are always dumped when bitcoin starts some sort of movement up or down. traders dump altcoins to come back to bitcoin.

No, not necessarily a pump and dump, but speculation can also refer to daytrading, swing trading and other types of more active trading strategies than longterm holding without conveying them as scams

aqila baruroh

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W12 – Blockchain protocol

I am no stranger to the name, the prediction is always accepted by many people and becomes an interesting topic for discussion. but this year's market is very difficult to guess and makes many predictions miss.

pooya87

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 29, 2018, 08:44:57 PM

~
In any case, in that situation if bitcoin has stablized, I reckon that there would be more dumping and/or more speculation in altcoins.

i think you meant more "pump and" dump in altcoins because so far it has always been like this. when bitcoin price stabilizes (even for a short period of time) the traders start looking elsewhere to make profit since it becomes hard to make profit in bitcoin that is moving 1% up and down. so this migration starts some pump and dumps in altcoins.
this is also the reason why altcoins are always dumped when bitcoin starts some sort of movement up or down. traders dump altcoins to come back to bitcoin.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: rickadone on September 29, 2018, 10:37:06 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 25, 2018, 09:05:15 PM

@rickadone. That is the common attitude in the cryptospace. But in the interest of discourse, how can we be that certain that bitcoin will go back to $20k, or how can we be certain that it will be bullish again? What if bitcoin now is in its fair price and will stay there for the next 50 years?

Well, in our life, nothing is guaranteed, and the thing we can always do is to be optimistic when at least you know there is still more possible room for growth. Take a look at how things have been over the years and the way adoption has been increasing, take a look at the fact that we keep seeing development every now and then and there could still be an opportunity for real life usage, hence, more demand, see the fact that the government can also see a way to want to regulate the space, and that brings more awareness, summing up all these means there is a possibility to see that happen, but you should know even at that, it does not mean we can see what exactly the future holds.

I was not asking about what kind of attitude the speculators should have in a deflated market. I was giving an imaginary situtation and wanted to know what your thoughts might be.

In any case, in that situation if bitcoin has stablized, I reckon that there would be more dumping and/or more speculation in altcoins.

mostkey

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 25, 2018, 09:05:15 PM

@rickadone. That is the common attitude in the cryptospace. But in the interest of discourse, how can we be that certain that bitcoin will go back to $20k, or how can we be certain that it will be bullish again? What if bitcoin now is in its fair price and will stay there for the next 50 years?

I think this is indeed a point where we as trader should believe that the price of bitcoin will return to 20k or even exceed that. we all know that investors and coin holders are very influential on the growth of market prices, both bitcoin and altcoin, because both have the same price growth system

rickadone

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 25, 2018, 09:05:15 PM

@rickadone. That is the common attitude in the cryptospace. But in the interest of discourse, how can we be that certain that bitcoin will go back to $20k, or how can we be certain that it will be bullish again? What if bitcoin now is in its fair price and will stay there for the next 50 years?

Well, in our life, nothing is guaranteed, and the thing we can always do is to be optimistic when at least you know there is still more possible room for growth. Take a look at how things have been over the years and the way adoption has been increasing, take a look at the fact that we keep seeing development every now and then and there could still be an opportunity for real life usage, hence, more demand, see the fact that the government can also see a way to want to regulate the space, and that brings more awareness, summing up all these means there is a possibility to see that happen, but you should know even at that, it does not mean we can see what exactly the future holds.

bbc.reporter

legendary

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@STT. Agreed. But the investors and speculators who are presently bagholding bitcoin will not he very happy hehe. The end result might be more dumping or more speculation in altcoins to try to make up for fiat losses.

STT

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 25, 2018, 09:05:15 PM

@rickadone. That is the common attitude in the cryptospace. But in the interest of discourse, how can we be that certain that bitcoin will go back to $20k, or how can we be certain that it will be bullish again? What if bitcoin now is in its fair price and will stay there for the next 50 years?

BTC price staying at 6500 for 50 years would be very positive in many ways. Having a level price like that enables business to trade around that stable value in planning revenue and transactions based in BTC.

The whole deal we got with Bitpay or whoever adds fees to transacting BTC is that stability is not there for vendors and they require that for alot of goods. This is why I think digital goods are ideal for crypto as digital goods are not fixed or high cost items, the demand is variable and reliant on the public similar to crypto.

Dont assume a level price is anything bad really though or that 6500 is cheap. Actually for me on a five year perspective having mined little bits of bitcoin years ago, 6500 is so massive. Its like having people criticising a skyscraper because hey there are ones taller, please dont as BTC achievements are massively impressive anyhow and staying here is just fine really it is

aencarnaci

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Quote from: JanpriX on September 25, 2018, 09:49:41 PM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 25, 2018, 09:05:15 PM

But in the interest of discourse, how can we be that certain that bitcoin will go back to $20k, or how can we be certain that it will be bullish again? What if bitcoin now is in its fair price and will stay there for the next 50 years?

Right now, being it (BTC) in a bullish or bearish trend isn't my biggest concern. What I mean here is that whatever happens to BTC in the month or in the next 50 years, it won't (severely) affect the way I live my life especially on the spending side of things because I have other channels where I get my money. I'm here because I just wanted to be involved with it. You can say that I didn't answered your questions directly or I'm just simply on the safe side of this discourse but this is honestly what I felt when I read your statement. I'll be happy when its price increase exponentially and when its price fall into the abyss, I'll just shrug it off and continue with my life.

You have some points there though, but as it is, based on the question asked by bbc.reporter, the fact still remains that nothing is always certain. We could be having a fair price here but that would be dependent on whether bitcoin stagnates and remain in one position or if it does not.

Generally, in my opinion, I believe there is still more room for development and adoption with all that bringing in bullish sentiment in the long run.

Yeah, they are all speculations since we cannot see the future anyway, but there is always a side to everything, which is either go as expected positively and then we see more people wanting to have a piece of the cake for what it really is, or we tend to have the other positive side, but being a believer and seeing the benefit the space brings in the future, I guess I would rather prefer to stay on the optimistic side.

bbc.reporter

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@JanpriX. I was not asking about your life or if bitcoin's bullish or bearish sentiment will affect your spending habits. I was asking rickadone, to answer as a bitcoin speculator, how he can be certain that it will go back to $20k and on what he thinks the sentiment might be if bitcoin is considered to be in its fair price of $6500 for the next 50 years.

JanpriX

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Buy The F*cking Dip

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 25, 2018, 09:05:15 PM

But in the interest of discourse, how can we be that certain that bitcoin will go back to $20k, or how can we be certain that it will be bullish again? What if bitcoin now is in its fair price and will stay there for the next 50 years?

Right now, being it (BTC) in a bullish or bearish trend isn't my biggest concern. What I mean here is that whatever happens to BTC in the month or in the next 50 years, it won't (severely) affect the way I live my life especially on the spending side of things because I have other channels where I get my money. I'm here because I just wanted to be involved with it. You can say that I didn't answered your questions directly or I'm just simply on the safe side of this discourse but this is honestly what I felt when I read your statement. I'll be happy when its price increase exponentially and when its price fall into the abyss, I'll just shrug it off and continue with my life.

bbc.reporter

legendary

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@rickadone. That is the common attitude in the cryptospace. But in the interest of discourse, how can we be that certain that bitcoin will go back to $20k, or how can we be certain that it will be bullish again? What if bitcoin now is in its fair price and will stay there for the next 50 years?

rickadone

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Quote from: 0xBitcoins on September 25, 2018, 06:38:32 AM

most especially the first one. It is more like Warren saying; Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful which sums up with not being bearish when the market is already down and people should tend to take advantage of what is at hand as an opportunity to buy at a lower price.

Market will always switch in trend at some point, and it is left for every single person to understand that when you buy the dips, in the long run, you will know the importance of the decision you have made today.

You are really right and what everything still balls down to is that as long as you keep holding you really would not have a problem in the long run. I may be a bag holder now, but that does not mean someone in the long run, would not wish they could even buy at $10000.

It is just the way it is, and he simply stated some fact in what he said, with respect to you buying the dips as an investor rather than seeing it as a problem. One thing a lot of people tend to usually discard but prefer joining FOMO instead.

0xBitcoins

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Quote from: pooya87 on September 18, 2018, 11:16:42 PM

you can't call him a bag holder unless you think bitcoin is never going to rise and only if you think bitcoin is going to continue to fall forever and never recover. would you call him a bag holder still when bitcoin reaches $100k? $1 million?
generally a bag holder is referred to someone holding bags of worthless shit that will continue losing value. like altcoin bag holders.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 18, 2018, 09:16:37 PM

“The question you have to ask yourselves is, ‘Now that crypto is down here, is it appropriate to be bullish or bearish?’ And I just want to absolutely point out it is a mistake to be bearish when you’re already down. This is like looking at stocks in December 2008 and deciding you wanted to become secularly bearish, even though the bear market was ending.”

“So I think the bear market has largely run its course in crypto, and it’s been healthy. It’s been resetting capital. It’s resetting investor expectations. But most importantly, the only time you can really make money in a big way is to buy when investors aren’t buying. That’s the real opportunity.

i like these two quotes because that is what i have always said. there is a time for everything. you can't remain on the same trend forever. just like you couldn't remain on the bullrun and expect the price to continue going further up when it stopped at $20k. now you can't expect the price to continue going down.
although in both cases there is always a possibility that it does continue for a while longer but would you take that risk?

Yeah, most especially the first one. It is more like Warren saying; Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful which sums up with not being bearish when the market is already down and people should tend to take advantage of what is at hand as an opportunity to buy at a lower price.

Market will always switch in trend at some point, and it is left for every single person to understand that when you buy the dips, in the long run, you will know the importance of the decision you have made today.

pooya87

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 21, 2018, 08:02:00 PM

~
Also, the ETF would not be the only cause of a big price increase. Bitcoin's volatility by itself caused by simple speculation and increased by sheep panic buying should not be underestimated.

but the sheep panic buying has never happened out of nowhere as far as i can tell. the rises have always been either slow with solid buy support hence building up a strong support without falls. and that takes time. or we have had big jumps that as far as i can tell have always followed these solid slow rises and were practically their final step after a long rise. and they usually want some sort of hype like the Futures hype of last year. that is why i believe he said ETF since it could have been the fake hype.

BitHodler

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 21, 2018, 08:02:00 PM

Bitcoin's volatility by itself caused by simple speculation and increased by sheep panic buying should not be underestimated.

Another important factor is the lack of liquidity. If you look at BitMEX, there in some cases is $10 million worth of liquidity within a range of $20 which is unseen in the world of crypto.

If you had that level of liquidity available on exchanges as Coinbase Pro and Bitfinex, which are actually spot market price drivers, the price wouldn't bounce up and down as heavily as it has been doing for years.

The problem here is that serious investors won't wire hundreds of millions to any of the current exchanges because the trust isn't there. I don't even trust exchanges myself, and rightfully so.

bbc.reporter

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@Slow death. Are those your final predictions? I will quote and highlight them, then let's revisit this thread on the end of December hehe.

Quote from: Slow death on September 21, 2018, 06:46:20 PM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 18, 2018, 09:16:37 PM

When it came to Tom Lee, nothing negative would convince him from abandoning his end of the year prediction of bitcoin reaching $20k - $25k. A new high.

let's be honest, he failed in his prediction. There is no chance of the price reaching more than $ 15,000 this year

Quote from: magneto on September 21, 2018, 06:12:03 PM

Whilst that prediction is definitely possible if we see some sort of major bullish outbreak near the end of the year

ETF was postponed, what else would cause a big price increase? I see nothing

Also, the ETF would not be the only cause of a big price increase. Bitcoin's volatility by itself caused by simple speculation and increased by sheep panic buying should not be underestimated.

Slow death

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 18, 2018, 09:16:37 PM

When it came to Tom Lee, nothing negative would convince him from abandoning his end of the year prediction of bitcoin reaching $20k - $25k. A new high.

let's be honest, he failed in his prediction. There is no chance of the price reaching more than $ 15,000 this year, he and many others have failed in their predictions for this year and for that very reason many of them are gone. because they do not want to face the press. One thing is certain, from now on nobody will be able to predict the price

Quote from: magneto on September 21, 2018, 06:12:03 PM

Whilst that prediction is definitely possible if we see some sort of major bullish outbreak near the end of the year

ETF was postponed, what else would cause a big price increase? I see nothing

magneto

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Quote

When it came to Tom Lee, nothing negative would convince him from abandoning his end of the year prediction of bitcoin reaching $20k - $25k. A new high.

Whilst that prediction is definitely possible if we see some sort of major bullish outbreak near the end of the year, I'd never bet on that becoming reality.

We're still deep in a bear market and even though markets have recovered a bit, it's very unlikely we'll see prices go over 5 figures any time soon. That's just my take on the matter. He's been extremely bullish in all of the reports covering him, so it's really no surprise here. I've stopped following Tom Lee and his speculative articles for ages now.

Quote

“The question you have to ask yourselves is, ‘Now that crypto is down here, is it appropriate to be bullish or bearish?’ And I just want to absolutely point out it is a mistake to be bearish when you’re already down. This is like looking at stocks in December 2008 and deciding you wanted to become secularly bearish, even though the bear market was ending.”

This is probably the rational thing to do, though. Buying in this bear market when prices are already so low is definitely going to be a good investment, given sufficient time.

r32godzilla

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 18, 2018, 09:16:37 PM

When it came to Tom Lee, nothing negative would convince him from abandoning his end of the year prediction of bitcoin reaching $20k - $25k. A new high.

In this article, he was quoted singing a different tune. Has our bitcoin bull transformed into a bitcoin bagholder? The psychological change is very clear. He is also human after all hehehe.

In any case, I agree in his new sentiment. It might be a perfect time to start buying again.

Bitcoin is not dead, and the best investment opportunities arise when the picture is not bright. This is how Tom Lee, Co-founder of Fundstrat and expert analyst of the crypto markets thinks.

According to Lee, the current value of Bitcoin represents an excellent buying opportunity, and it would be a mistake to miss the train:

“The question you have to ask yourselves is, ‘Now that crypto is down here, is it appropriate to be bullish or bearish?’ And I just want to absolutely point out it is a mistake to be bearish when you’re already down. This is like looking at stocks in December 2008 and deciding you wanted to become secularly bearish, even though the bear market was ending.”

“So I think the bear market has largely run its course in crypto, and it’s been healthy. It’s been resetting capital. It’s resetting investor expectations. But most importantly, the only time you can really make money in a big way is to buy when investors aren’t buying. That’s the real opportunity."

Read in full https://ethereumworldnews.com/tom-lee-mistake-bearish-when-youre-down/

Its the same phenomenon used by Warren Buffett that any stock should be bought only when no one is buying.Actually this is the time when most of speculators and new investors trying to get rich overnight leave the market and I hope there's no more events which could negatively affect bitcoin price and hence buying it now would be the wiser investment.

wuvdoll

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 20, 2018, 08:33:22 PM

@timerland. But $20k - $25k is only 3x - 4x away from bitcoin's price today and if you take its volatility during time of excitement into consideration, Tommy Lee's prediction might still be possible. If the bulls come back on middle of November, I speculate that it might still also be possible.

Well, it is still a very big IF. I have been seeing some actions lately from the bulls though and I am really trying to see how this would end and maybe with some very great news, we might see the market get back into some state of excitement and like you said, I would not be surprised to see some good movement. However, at the same time, I do not expect so much considering the fact that there is still a lot of resistance to break within this period and seeing a $25k absolutely means the market trying to print a new ATH, and from where I stand I do not see how possible that might be, and the chances are so slim, but not like it cannot happen.

aqila baruroh

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I agree with what he says ($ 20k- $ 25k), although I'm not sure this will happen in the near future. but his words made me a little comforted in the midst of this market condition. well, applause for you and Tom Lee Grin

zazarb

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 20, 2018, 08:33:22 PM

@timerland. But $20k - $25k is only 3x - 4x away from bitcoin's price today and if you take its volatility during time of excitement into consideration, Tommy Lee's prediction might still be possible. If the bulls come back on middle of November, I speculate that it might still also be possible.

Yes it could be like you said , but in part this is a very small opportunity for that it would be great if price will reach 15k .

YuginKadoya

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Well, I have Never known Tom Lee before until I had researched about him that he is a well-known expect analyst regarding the movement of Cryptocurrency But let's not be harsh with the way OP mixed him with Tommy Lee Jones, His just human and not perfect just like us, And regarding the mandatory movement of bitcoin right now we should consider that we are still in the midst of a bearish market and I never really expecting any bullish run so far in this year, But there is a chance that we can rather see it the next more years to come.

Kevin77

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As far as he is not claiming to be a bag holder and still believes in what he is holding, then classifying him as a bag holder because the market is down and he is still holding so much of bitcoin makes no sense. He made very solid point in his statement and he sure looks like someone who is more focused on the long term than trying to dwell so much on the short term. I really love the quote where he said;

Quote

"The question you have to ask yourselves is, ‘Now that crypto is down here, is it appropriate to be bullish or bearish?’ And I just want to absolutely point out it is a mistake to be bearish when you’re already down. This is like looking at stocks in December 2008 and deciding you wanted to become secular bearish, even though the bear market was ending.”

Unfortunately, the gullible ones who are the main target of the whales tend not to ask themselves those questions and they make horrible investment decisions as a result of that.

STT

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In trading terms that person who buys at the peak should take the step to cut losses while price descends and then buy while price is going through a more flat trajectory. The flat area which no doubt fails many times to regain the uptrend does eventually rise.
Just selling and rebuying like that does help to reduce alot of the loss quite often. However its true that human nature would have the person selling and never again gaining the confidence to rebuy or they sell and use the money to buy a luxury good they didnt need instead of speculating in crypto. Some people cant help but use up any cash they have, depends hence the hodl idea which takes far longer to work but can I agree be the best course for some

pooya87

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Quote from: cellard on September 20, 2018, 08:45:56 PM

Someone that bought at the peak of the 2013 MTGox bubble before it burst, was seen as the biggest idiot on planet earth, the biggest bagholder. When you searched "bagholder" in investopedia, the face of the guys that bought at $1300 in late 2013 would show up.

Of course, needless to say now these bagholders are envied by these that were calling bitcoin dead all across that time range of low prices. They can only dream to buy Bitcoin below $3000 again, let alone $1300.

Long story short: hodl.

well this is debatable though. there is a lot of things to consider before branding someone as a bag holder.
first and most obvious one is the strategy. for example if it is a trading strategy then obviously that person is going to be a bag holder if they bought at the peak and held it. since as a trader you want to remain active to make profit not buy and hold. but if the strategy is an investment then the question is what does their analysis say about the future of bitcoin in the long run.

another thing that comes to mind is why did they buy at the peak? i would categorize people who bought at an ATH into two groups. the first one which are not bag holders are those who have been buying bitcoin ever now and then (like once per month) with extra money they have. they didn't wait for ATH to buy! but there is another group which are bag holder and they are those who knew about bitcoin, could buy it but never did until it became too late and then they acted out of FOMO and bought the ATH. these are obvious newbie bag holders.

cellard

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Someone that bought at the peak of the 2013 MTGox bubble before it burst, was seen as the biggest idiot on planet earth, the biggest bagholder. When you searched "bagholder" in investopedia, the face of the guys that bought at $1300 in late 2013 would show up.

Of course, needless to say now these bagholders are envied by these that were calling bitcoin dead all across that time range of low prices. They can only dream to buy Bitcoin below $3000 again, let alone $1300.

Long story short: hodl.

bbc.reporter

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@timerland. But $20k - $25k is only 3x - 4x away from bitcoin's price today and if you take its volatility during time of excitement into consideration, Tommy Lee's prediction might still be possible. If the bulls come back on middle of November, I speculate that it might still also be possible.

timerland

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I mean, this is a more realistic outlook than most of his previous predictions, which seem to be permanently bullish.

It's probably just a few months ago where he said bitcoin would turn to bullishness before the end of the year or something like that. Based on all of these obviously baseless and sensationalist predictions, I've pretty much stopped looking at any articles relating him speculating on bitcoin price at all.

Anyhow, he's right on this one, though. Prices are close to the bottom at the moment and they are extremely cheap compared to the peak of the bull market of last year. To me, this is an excellent buying opportunity only if you are willing to hold onto the coins for the long term, as a bull market may not be coming any time soon in the short term.

STT

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I was just thinking he looks like the actor but didnt he retire and obviously is older then I remember Cheesy

He won an oscar for the fugitive wow, glad he is still going strong then

Quote

Bitcoin is not dead, and the best investment opportunities arise when the picture is not bright

Anyway I do agree this general piece advice and of course its true. Everyone was jumping like chimpanzees at a tea party end of 2017 even though the price was expensive, higher spreads, costly transaction fees and with some questions over protocol vs competition. Now prospects are improved, spreads are tighter, many questions answered and solved with incredibly lower transaction costs but people act morose as if its all terrible. Of course its not, BTC fell back into a similar less popular trend 2014 onwards and yet it accumulated and was actively being used anyway even if the masses think not theres some who need a product like this

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@bbc.reporter - You got me with the Tommy Lee Jones picture. Grin

I also agree that a good reset is all we needed to be able to go bounce back again. Weak hands are gone, no more FOMO, what's left is whales and speculators. So everyone need to adjust and be flexible at this time. That's why many investors can't really understand what's going on the market because their expectations are wrong. When they thought that the bear market is about to end, suddenly the price crash again. So everything has its time, we just need take advantage of every situation being presented to us whether we are in a bullish or bearish trend.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: pooya87 on September 18, 2018, 11:16:42 PM

you can't call him a bag holder unless you think bitcoin is never going to rise and only if you think bitcoin is going to continue to fall forever and never recover. would you call him a bag holder still when bitcoin reaches $100k? $1 million?
generally a bag holder is referred to someone holding bags of worthless shit that will continue losing value. like altcoin bag holders.

Agreed, but you know what I mean. A bagholder is when a trader is stuck and cannot sell his bags unless he is willing to take a big loss hehe.

@Kemarit. I am not trolling. The news and my comments are serious. But the picture was meant to be funny hehehe.

tosmartak

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He sure certainly has a lot of point. People tend to blow in the direction of the wind most of the time by selling when the market is down and buying when the market is up. He sure knows the importance and benefit that this space brings and he is certainly looking at the point of an investor in which you take advantage of the dips as buying opportunity rather than selling out of panic. The targets are always the weak hands and in that case, any smart person will not want to be a weak hand.

1Referee

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Tom Lee has done enough to lose most of the credits that were appointed to him months and months ago.

People should stop giving these people attention, because that's what they are after at the end of the day. Bitcoin is all about being responsible for your own actions and money, so what's the point of looking at these public faces and think they know more than you and me? They don't know shit. The louder people trying to 'sell' you any sort of advice are, the more desperate they are.

While everyone is talking about the bear market and how bad the situation for them is, smart/silent money accumulates more coins on the way down. Smart money doesn't need anyone to tell them whether or not it's a good time to buy, they can figure it out themselves.

bobo012

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Even if he is a bagholder, he is one that still believes in the value of bitcoin, same as me. Bagholders made large sums of money, hodling from last bearmarket into bull market of 2017. It will happen again

figmentofmyass

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i'm happy to see him becoming more reserved and backing off his ATH calls. that's what we need to turn this market around: bulls becoming bears. he's absolutely right that investor expectations needed to be reset.

but has sentiment really been reset, yet? too early to call IMO. in hindsight, this $6000 zone definitely might be seen as an accumulation zone. i've seen many price structures like this that resolved bullishly. but even if it turns out that way, i think it'll be several months more before we really start rising.

lol @ the tommy lee jones pic......

butka

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Quote from: vit05 on September 18, 2018, 11:36:17 PM

This picture is a joke? Because it is from the actor Tommy Lee Jones, not the investor Tom Lee.

For a brief moment I was thrilled to see the picture of Tommy Lee Jones. He is one of my favorite actors. Him being involved in Bitcoin in any way would be very cool. (Who knows maybe he is secretly involved after all.)

Then I checked the linked post and, to my disappointment, I found out that the OP was talking about Thomas Lee. I don't know what to think of this guy, but his prediction of $14 trillion increase in market cap by 2020 just from US Millennials allocating a part of their profits in crypto is not impossible.

Kemarit

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LOL. Are you serious dude? That's not Tom Lee of Fundstrat, rather Tommy Lee Jones the Hollywood Actor. I don't know if you are trolling us, but it made my day. Grin

Getcoinsite

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Quote from: vit05 on September 18, 2018, 11:36:17 PM

This picture is a joke? Because it is from the actor Tommy Lee Jones, not the investor Tom Lee. They're completely different people lol.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0498374/ Tommy Lee
https://twitter.com/fundstrat?lang=en Thomas Lee

On the issue of price. The market today is vastly larger them from years ago. There are several companies and people who have decided to dedicate themselves entirely to cryptocurrencies. Eventually new business and opportunities will arise. I would say that by the end of the year we will have news saying that there are more countries with exchange than with McDonalds.

And so you could practically buy and sell Bitcoin with fiat in almost any country of the world.

Is that the image of Tommy lee jones now?The actor from the movie men in black with Will smith?god he looks like ridiculous now lol

But it made me laugh 😆 knowing that the photo is different from what OPs pointing out,I don’t know if OP kade proper research about this topic..

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 18, 2018, 09:16:37 PM

Just now that I recognize him lol

But this is another good news to crypto community and may return the investors back to trusting the market again and may help the value grow to bring profit us.so keep the faith guys and hold on for future

vit05

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This picture is a joke? Because it is from the actor Tommy Lee Jones, not the investor Tom Lee. They're completely different people lol.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0498374/ Tommy Lee
https://twitter.com/fundstrat?lang=en Thomas Lee

On the issue of price. The market today is vastly larger them from years ago. There are several companies and people who have decided to dedicate themselves entirely to cryptocurrencies. Eventually new business and opportunities will arise. I would say that by the end of the year we will have news saying that there are more countries with exchange than with McDonalds.

And so you could practically buy and sell Bitcoin with fiat in almost any country of the world.

pooya87

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you can't call him a bag holder unless you think bitcoin is never going to rise and only if you think bitcoin is going to continue to fall forever and never recover. would you call him a bag holder still when bitcoin reaches $100k? $1 million?
generally a bag holder is referred to someone holding bags of worthless shit that will continue losing value. like altcoin bag holders.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 18, 2018, 09:16:37 PM

“The question you have to ask yourselves is, ‘Now that crypto is down here, is it appropriate to be bullish or bearish?’ And I just want to absolutely point out it is a mistake to be bearish when you’re already down. This is like looking at stocks in December 2008 and deciding you wanted to become secularly bearish, even though the bear market was ending.”

“So I think the bear market has largely run its course in crypto, and it’s been healthy. It’s been resetting capital. It’s resetting investor expectations. But most importantly, the only time you can really make money in a big way is to buy when investors aren’t buying. That’s the real opportunity.

i like these two quotes because that is what i have always said. there is a time for everything. you can't remain on the same trend forever. just like you couldn't remain on the bullrun and expect the price to continue going further up when it stopped at $20k. now you can't expect the price to continue going down.
although in both cases there is always a possibility that it does continue for a while longer but would you take that risk?

bbc.reporter

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When it came to Tom Lee, nothing negative would convince him from abandoning his end of the year prediction of bitcoin reaching $20k - $25k. A new high.

In this article, he was quoted singing a different tune. Has our bitcoin bull transformed into a bitcoin bagholder? The psychological change is very clear. He is also human after all hehehe.

In any case, I agree in his new sentiment. It might be a perfect time to start buying again.

Bitcoin is not dead, and the best investment opportunities arise when the picture is not bright. This is how Tom Lee, Co-founder of Fundstrat and expert analyst of the crypto markets thinks.

According to Lee, the current value of Bitcoin represents an excellent buying opportunity, and it would be a mistake to miss the train:

“The question you have to ask yourselves is, ‘Now that crypto is down here, is it appropriate to be bullish or bearish?’ And I just want to absolutely point out it is a mistake to be bearish when you’re already down. This is like looking at stocks in December 2008 and deciding you wanted to become secularly bearish, even though the bear market was ending.”

“So I think the bear market has largely run its course in crypto, and it’s been healthy. It’s been resetting capital. It’s resetting investor expectations. But most importantly, the only time you can really make money in a big way is to buy when investors aren’t buying. That’s the real opportunity."

Read in full https://ethereumworldnews.com/tom-lee-mistake-bearish-when-youre-down/

Topic: Tom Lee, from bitcoin bull to bitcoin bagholder (Read 715 times)