Topic: Top Saudi Cleric: The Sun Revolves Around The Earth… (Read 3198 times)

"Allah says in a Koranic verse: “And the sun runs towards its stopping point. That is the determination of the All-Powerful, the All-Knowing.”

Are you saying the OP is Allah AND it may have a logical flaw? Please World direct all your Fatwa toward Mr stinky

I guess we can extend this question is the Universe Flat or is the Universe Circular

Also not quite sure but are Galaxys Flat or Circular or a bunch of weird shapes ?

The Flat Earth Society (also known as the International Flat Earth Society or the International Flat Earth Research Society) is an organization whose aim to further the idea that the Earth is flat instead of an oblate spheroid. The modern organization was founded by Englishman Samuel Shenton in 1956[1] and was later led by Charles K. Johnson, who based the organization in his home in Lancaster, California. The formal society was inactive after Johnson’s death in 2001 but was resurrected in 2004 by its new president Daniel Shenton.[2]

The ideas argued by the society are widely viewed by accomplished scientists as pseudoscientific.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society

Silly people.
Nothing "revolves" around anything. It's all flat. 

Space is easier to move than objects, the universe revolves around itself, thus movement is relative to your point of reality

Well yes. Materialism is a given in modern science.

It's not a belief based on evidence, it's a fundamental axiom of the system of science. Feel free to research it...


If anything non-material is rejected a priori, then nothing will ever be 'discovered' or theorized that's non-material.

Amen.
That is the part so many people miss. If someone provided evidence that the Earth was in the center of the universe then it would be studied and tested to see if additional facts contradict or support the original findings. Those who follow the religious path start with an assumption and try to make their findings fit. That is not how science works, that is called superstition.
The problem with this approach is that one must be willfully ignorant of simple, provable facts. For example if you want to believe that Noah and the ark was an actual event. You must ignore the fact that the story is really a copy of an ancient Sumerian story. You must also throw out what is known about geology, physics, biology, history, etc. You must get yourself into a superstitious child-like state of mind. The moment you apply logic the whole thing starts to unravel. 

Only a god that was material would be accepted by scientists, as they reject as a fundamental fact that there is anything beyond matter & energy.

But a god that existed only materially wouldn't be a god.

Of course, this also has the hidden assumption that scientists don't believe in God. Historically speaking, far more scientists have been religious than have been atheist. But even in modern times, you cannot make the flat assertion that scientists as a rule are atheist.

According to a survey of members of the American Assn. for the Advancement of Science, conducted by the Pew Research Center in May and June this year, a majority of scientists (51%) say they believe in God or a higher power, while 41% say they do not. - LA Times.

You can argue the exact percentage, different polls have different numbers, but it's always going to be a healthy number.

Oh my god, thanks for that, you made my day 

I'm still not quite sure that that whole forum isn't an Onion-style hoax though bahahaa!

so many retards in here assuming that just because a "Top Saudi Cleric" and a USA backed King are believing and spreading medieval shit everyone else there must also believe in that shit too...

funny thing is since there are no fixed point in the universe, and everything is relative,
the sun revolves around the earth AND the earth revolves around the sun, it's only a matter of perception and choice of where to claim a center.
Science claims the center is where it simplifies the equations
Religion claims the center is where it maximizes belief.
Both are right, and wrong.

A separate thread has been already started:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/saudi-arabia-to-classify-atheists-as-terrorists-552992

It appears the Saudi Dictator just took it to a whole new level :

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-01/saudi-arabia-passes-new-law-declares-atheists-terrorists

There seems to be at least one logical flaw and one misunderstanding in the OP.

As a scientist I can accept the statement "And the sun runs towards its stopping point" since the sun is moving through space relative to the galactic centre, which is also moving relative to other galaxies. More figuratively, the sun is also 'running down' since it is consuming its own fuel and will one day stop shining. Neither interpretation has any relevance to the question of the earth going around the sun, or the sun going around the earth.

The cleric seems to think that modern science says the sun stays still. It doesn't say that.

But I'm not sure about the four elephants and the turtle.

This is precisely what pisses me off about religious people, if there was a god, scientists would accept it, but religious people would only accept it as long as it fits 'their' version, what happens if it turns out there are millions of gods that are nothing like what they believe in but they exist? They'd be pretty fucked then with their logic but it seems that scientists are discovering how life clicks step by step, finding out if there's an afterlife is the only real problem because you have to physically die in order to find out about it.

I can respect people for wanting to believe in things, but I can't respect people who deny reality and expect me to respect that.

still living in the past. Guys like these are the root cause of all the worlds ill 

Who is more humble? The scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us, or somebody who says everything in this book must be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of all the human beings involved?

they were smart enought to stole it, today they would burn it all 

True but at least they saved astronomy after the Dark Ages appeared in Europe and all the information was lost in that part of the world philosophy etc and math (Like it or Leave it  )
Now you know who to thank for your textbook lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_transmission_of_the_Classics_to_the_West

I don't think so. Arabs acted as the intermediaries between the Orient and the West. They stole the knowledge from both the sides.

Damn....

Imagine the amount of gravity we'd have to endure if the Earth was to be the center of the solar system ??! We'd be quite... flattened...

Space exploration wouldn't require the 11.2km/sec escape velocity but the full whopping 617.3km/sec o.0
Space agencies wouldn't be too happy about that. 1.38 Million miles/hour isn't an easy feat to achieve.

Given that gravity, we'd probably be super-tough, flat and very small insectoids. A human would be crushed to death under the gravitational forces.

Or even worse, imagine you'd be a drughead like dank, believing the whole universe was revolving around you (quite an ego)... Definitely certain one couldn't handle that load of gravity

Don't worry... you will.

I don't understand how anyone can believe in religions and their holy books. They are OBVIOUSLY written by a bunch of dudes who saw how fucked up the world was in their time and to make themselves feel better created a bunch of laws and beliefs. It sure is easier to sleep at night when you believe that the "evil" will be punished with hell after death, while the good may suffer in life but be rewarded after, but that's not how the world works. Equally good and terrible things happen to good and terrible people.

These books reflect the time in which they were written - there is tons of sexism, brutal punishments (like stoning people), homophobia and so on. They also reflect other archaic beliefs of the time, such as the one in this post. There is NO WAY that these kind of texts would be written (or inspired by) some divine holy being - why would a truly good divine being condone hatred, violence, and sexism? They are obviously written by men. And if the books are written by man, then the associated religion is also created by man. There is nothing divine about it.

I have nothing against religious people. There are plenty of good individuals who are religious. But I just don't understand their belief, especially when based on books such as the Koran and the Bible.

If d sun is going round d earth how about other planets, why dont they stay at the same place. How about d moon. Our Gravity works with the smaller object going round a bigger one

It's true that Copernicus got his idea of the sun as the center from Najm al-Dīn al-Qazwīnī al-Kātibī, an Islamic scholar. It's not that some are smarter than others, just that some are more willing to accept the provable truth over their preconceived notions.

Nah. That also is just a religious belief 

the funy thing is that they were relly inteligent few hundred years ago ...

Funny how people believe in something so provably wrong. You can go in your back yard with a toy telescope and a calculator and prove the Earth revolves around the sun. It's like saying evolution is not really happening, despite us seeing it everywhere.

I don't think that quote was talking about the Sun. The Sun as in The "Son" of God. "All-Knowing" as in "To Know; knowledge" is referring to a physical being not a planet such as "The Sun" but as in "The Son"

Bottom line is:
The whole world revolves around me, the Son of God.

I guess you can say that:
The planet Earth revolves around the "Son".

standard for goat lovers ...

Well the Sun Revolves around the Galaxy and the Galaxy Revolves Around Something So Mind blowing  

But to troll the moon revolves around the earth in an elliptical orbit, with a mean eccentricity of 0.0549.

I see where you're coming from, but I saw a lot of D'Souza talks and debates and I don't find his arguments convincing, I remember watching the debate you quoted and I don't see any evidence for special knowledge on the bible based on that argument, they got that thing right but a lot of other simple stuff wrong, like slavery, or women coming from a mans rib, or a global flood, well, you can see where I'm going...

Accuracy is a useful thing... Hindu, for example, from the quick searches I did, seem far more consistent with a cyclical theory of the universe.

I'll also point out that your view that this was merely a statistical fluke means that science has been wrong for many centuries... certainly wrong when the evidence was in view, and most of science still rejected it.

I'm not anti-science, by the way... I'm anti-dogmatic.

I do, however, reject the belief in materialism so persistent in science.

Could they be talking about galaxies floating around a black hole?

It was a 50/50 chance, the universe always existed or it had a beginning, and the middle eastern bronze age sheep herders got it right, it had a beginning, but so did the Hindus and Buddha and the Egyptians and many others...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_creation_myths

When you are so firmly convinced of your righteousness (oops, wrong word), perhaps it's time to re-examine your fundamental (oops again) perceptions.

I'm reminded of the funny story told by Dinesh D'Souza: "Addressing the Big Bang theory, D'Souza agreed with Krauss that there was nothing in the beginning – no energy, no particles, no time or space. And that is "completely consistent with what Christians believe and exactly said by the ancient Hebrews thousands of years ago without doing a single experiment but solely on the basis of 'God told us.'"

"And the astounding fact is that 2,000 years later, modern science after climbing round and round the mountain has arrived at the top only to find a bunch of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries," said D'Souza to laughter from the audience."

It might be sobering to think that people far more intelligent than you or I have no problems believing in religion.

Yep. Just like when you interact with my threads. sad I know. 

Yet we are forced to interact with them on a regular basis.   

I would have been less polite in my description of religion!

LOL!

My $.02.

Looks like they are living in another planet. 

I don't get how people believe in religion.. It's all a load of cobblers to me..

Flat Earth Productions is a special effects company created in 1995 to provide the effects to the television series Xena: Warrior Princess and Hercules: The Legendary Journeys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Productions

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/

In US there is big organisation that believe |Earth is flat. I don't think we should care about this kind of people.

lol this might be true guys, be open for suggestions and not this "closed"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkWPApsbGaQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsyZ0WgrwPY

I think those videos are interesting enough.

I can't see the sun this morning at all due to cloud cover which causes me to question whether or not the sun is really still there.

My $.02.

Today was cloudy.
I see it on other days; The sun IS obviously rotating around the Earth.   

aint they waiting for their mahdi / al Daddschāl...

The truth is the universe revolves around you.  You are the center of the universe, it is all created from within you.

They are not the brightest, so I am not particularly surprised

The use of such technology by some will serve to widen the gap between the technocrats and the superstitious ones.

Consider the long-term implications............................

My $.02.

What is the use ion having bullion ATMs, when you have stone age people around?

True, they are a little better, walking around with a drink or a beer bottle on the street, and you get lashed!

If you are foreign you can do everything if you are discrete, so probably also if you have connections!

They have gold bullion ATM's too!

Actually Dubai is a relatively progressive place. It is Saudi Arabia which is ultra-conservative.

Primitive, superstitious people.

My $.02.

400 Bitcoin ATM's going to be setup in Dubai. Women can't vote or drive a car.

For pete's sake, if you  want to quibble about it, that Koran verse does not even mention the earth as far as I can see (unless there is a translation error there.) Theologians can be such horses' asses.

Most creationists who actually know about creationism (beyond "god made people") believe that creation and evolution can coexist.

Finally someone to debunk all of this pseudo-science!

I see it with my own eyes every day. The sun is obviously rotating around the Earth.

Open your eyes people!

Traded camel dung for blankets.

More like fairy tails, the more we prove them wrong the less lies they have to fall back on.

What these Saudis would have done for a living.. if they didn't had any oil?

There is sadly a fairly large minority of Americans that believe the same thing. Religion is no replacement for an actual education or an understanding of science.

So I will leave you with a qoute by Neil DeGrasse Tyson :

'The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.'

This people without oil would become nomads.

Same stuff with Creationists and Evolution.

These people ignore reality in favor of old stories...

TV host: Allah says in a Koranic verse: “And the sun runs towards its stopping point. That is the determination of the All-Powerful, the All-Knowing.” Does the sun revolve around the earth?

Saleh Al-Fawzan: There is no doubt about it. The Koran says: “The sun runs…” Nevertheless, they say that the sun stands in place and the Earth moves. This contradicts the Koran.

Ignoring the Koran and adopting modern theories is not something a Muslim can do. A Muslim must follow the Koran.

http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/4192.htm



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Does staring into the Sun more difficult if it revolves around the Earth?