Tor Network & Bitcoin Nodes | Bitcointalksearch.org

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Quote from: NotATether on February 18, 2022, 06:47:39 PM

Quote from: n0nce on February 18, 2022, 06:32:24 PM

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 18, 2022, 06:24:05 PM

I guess out of the box could be the reason but again surly out of the box Tor would be a risk to most users? if they are not sure they are even running tor?

Where does this idea come from? What exactly about running a Bitcoin node over Tor vs running it over clearnet do you think would be a risk to most users?

I think he's referring to the the legal notices sent by ISPs to exit node runners, but then again, Bitcoin Core doesn't make you run a Tor node, it only connects to the network of nodes so there is not much to be concerned about in this regard.

You need to explicitly configure your Tor to act as exit node, so i doubt that's what he referred. More realistic ~~risk~~ concern would be you placed on government watchlist if you use Tor or similar technology.

n0nce

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Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 18, 2022, 07:55:40 PM

https://twitter.com/RoninDojoNode/status/1493634529814368267
Found this wondered if this might also be one of the reasons?

Yes, it's also a node-in-a-box solution, like Umbrel, RaspiBlitz and MyNode.

DaCryptoRaccoon

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https://twitter.com/RoninDojoNode/status/1493634529814368267

Found this wondered if this might also be one of the reasons?

Spotted this in the nodes list did a search found that project.

Looks like they are offering some Tor services as part of the system.

Interface looks nice some interesting features.

Code:

kuxcgyqe6a7s52mgsomd444mcyqsgrizxtxgwhvlnfc7qsy2w6twdfid.onion:8333
Since 40 minutes ago	/Satoshi:22.0.0(RoninDojo 1.13.0)/ (70016)
NODE_NETWORK, NODE_WITNESS, NODE_NETWORK_LIMITED (1033)

n0nce

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Quote from: NotATether on February 18, 2022, 06:47:39 PM

Quote from: n0nce on February 18, 2022, 06:32:24 PM

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 18, 2022, 06:24:05 PM

I guess out of the box could be the reason but again surly out of the box Tor would be a risk to most users? if they are not sure they are even running tor?

Where does this idea come from? What exactly about running a Bitcoin node over Tor vs running it over clearnet do you think would be a risk to most users?

I think he's referring to the the legal notices sent by ISPs to exit node runners, but then again, Bitcoin Core doesn't make you run a Tor node, it only connects to the network of nodes so there is not much to be concerned about in this regard.

That's correct: running a Bitcoin node over Tor has little to do with running a Tor node.
In fact, most setups - at least my own setups (and guide) - explicitly disable the ability to be a Tor exit node, as far as I know.

Also calling it a 'risk' is again misleading. It's as if I say 'using Bitcoin can be a risk' just because there are some countries in which it is illegal. Risk in this context (to me) suggests there is a security issue.

NotATether

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Quote from: n0nce on February 18, 2022, 06:32:24 PM

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 18, 2022, 06:24:05 PM

I guess out of the box could be the reason but again surly out of the box Tor would be a risk to most users? if they are not sure they are even running tor?

Where does this idea come from? What exactly about running a Bitcoin node over Tor vs running it over clearnet do you think would be a risk to most users?

I think he's referring to the the legal notices sent by ISPs to exit node runners, but then again, Bitcoin Core doesn't make you run a Tor node, it only connects to the network of nodes so there is not much to be concerned about in this regard.

n0nce

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Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 18, 2022, 06:24:05 PM

I guess out of the box could be the reason but again surly out of the box Tor would be a risk to most users? if they are not sure they are even running tor?

Where does this idea come from? What exactly about running a Bitcoin node over Tor vs running it over clearnet do you think would be a risk to most users? Regarding them not being sure they are even running tor; that's also wrong, because these 'node in a box' solutions do usually specify clearly that they are configured to run over Tor and it's often put quite up-front as one of their features, actually.

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 18, 2022, 06:24:05 PM

I mean on one hand mass adoption is a reason but on the other side of that it's mass adoption of probably not very technical people so if that is the reason out of the box running nodes that "default" to tor that must be some risk if people are just "plug-and-play".

Again, what exactly do you think is the risk of someone setting up a preconfigured 'node in a box'? Do you believe it would be more beneficial to Bitcoin and the users to rely on a small number of centralized nodes instead of as many people as possible running their own nodes? And if so, do you care to elaborate why? I don't see the point here.

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 18, 2022, 06:24:05 PM

I think it would be interested to research this matter some more find out if any of the "Out of the box" nodes come with some config that is turning on the tor feature because I do not think this is normal users spinning up nodes than option for Tor.

Yes, they come with Tor turned on by default, as stated multiple times in this thread. Not really lots of 'research' needed, just check the front pages of each project.

Quote from: https://mynodebtc.com/

Quote from: https://getumbrel.com/

Quote from: https://github.com/rootzoll/raspiblitz

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Quote from: n0nce on February 18, 2022, 06:00:16 PM

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 18, 2022, 05:54:54 PM

Just curious to the growth as should most of us no one seems to have any answer to why there has been this quite steady increase over time.
Has anyone got any idea why we have seen the increased activity over Tor?

It seems to me you got a bunch of answers, didn't you?
I mean, nobody will be able to tell you for sure, I think it's obvious why. But there are a bunch of plausible explanations in here. There can and probably are others, but how can you say nobody gave any answer? Cheesy

I guess out of the box could be the reason but again surly out of the box Tor would be a risk to most users? if they are not sure they are even running tor?

I mean on one hand mass adoption is a reason but on the other side of that it's mass adoption of probably not very technical people so if that is the reason out of the box running nodes that "default" to tor that must be some risk if people are just "plug-and-play".

I think it would be interested to research this matter some more find out if any of the "Out of the box" nodes come with some config that is turning on the tor feature because I do not think this is normal users spinning up nodes than option for Tor.

Could easy be some type of "default" on switch that causing this if it was to be OTB node solution?

Just brainstorming

n0nce

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Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 18, 2022, 05:54:54 PM

Just curious to the growth as should most of us no one seems to have any answer to why there has been this quite steady increase over time.
Has anyone got any idea why we have seen the increased activity over Tor?

It seems to me you got a bunch of answers, didn't you?
I mean, nobody will be able to tell you for sure, I think it's obvious why. But there are a bunch of plausible explanations in here. There can and probably are others, but how can you say nobody gave any answer? Cheesy

DaCryptoRaccoon

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Just curious to the growth as should most of us no one seems to have any answer to why there has been this quite steady increase over time.

Maybe the first post may have sounded quite alarmist but I think it's worth asking the question on the growth of it.

Has anyone got any idea why we have seen the increased activity over Tor?

I think it's a very interesting topic if anyone has any further insight to this growth because I would be interested to hear it.

To me I don't see the average crypto user setting up tor nodes let alone thousands of them.

n0nce

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on February 18, 2022, 11:44:30 AM

I understand this as massive adoption instead.

That's right!

Especially since it's so gradual over the course of a year and not instant as the OP makes it sound.

(from bitnodes.io/dashboard)

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on February 18, 2022, 11:44:30 AM

Quote from: mocacinno on February 18, 2022, 09:57:50 AM

Indeed... It seems like those "out of the box" sollutions like to propose Tor so they don't have to help users with setting up port forewarding

It's not just that they don't want to help the users. Port forwarding is an extra procedure with no essential benefit.

Opening ports is also a pretty risky procedure, especially if someone doesn't know exactly what they're doing and e.g. checking a box to set a machine as 'exposed host', opening too many ports, opening the wrong ports, and similar.

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I understand this as massive adoption instead.

Quote from: mocacinno on February 18, 2022, 09:57:50 AM

Indeed... It seems like those "out of the box" sollutions like to propose Tor so they don't have to help users with setting up port forewarding

It's not just that they don't want to help the users. Port forwarding is an extra procedure with no essential benefit. Also, we shouldn't forget that Tor adds this extra titch of anonymity. I feel better sharing publicly my node's URI this way, instead of my IPv4.

n0nce

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Okay, after navigating on the website a bit, I found this dashboard.
We can clearly see that .onion percentage did increase from ~20% to ~50% in the last year, but that's by no means a massive jump by someone attacking or trying to mess with the network, more so steady growth over the period of a full year.

It can definitely be explained by the advent and popularization of 'nodes in a box', as DaveF suggests, which in most cases come with Tor configured by default. Also simply by better guides, updates to Bitcoin Core itself and similar.
Interestingly, the number of IPv4 nodes stayed roughly the same, dropping from ~7000 nodes to ~6000 nodes, while the total number of nodes has increased a lot. It is possible that simply tons of 'node in box' with Tor by default, joined the network^{[over time...]}.

I highly suspect if you run a node that has both IPv4 and Tor connectivity, it counts twice, so people might also just be activating Tor on their existing nodes little by little, with some of them even closing their IPv4 port (hence the declining number in that node count).

Just theorizing, but TL;DR: MagicByt3 here somehow claims there is some massive change, something suspicious that could come from an attack on the Bitcoin network, while it just has been growing over the last year little by little...

mocacinno

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Indeed... It seems like those "out of the box" sollutions like to propose Tor so they don't have to help users with setting up port forewarding, firewalling and/or upnp

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-core-inbound-connection-5385939

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A lot of the nodes in a box / pre-configured builds are on Tor or have a 1 click tor activate. Umbrel and raspiblitz come to mind. I think MynodeBTC does it too, not sure if it's in the free version or not. So if someone is spinning up a bunch of them for whatever reason it could be it.

And just to say it again, it will hide the fact that you are running a node, all your transactions are still public.
It's amazing how many people I have to explain that to.

-Dave

n0nce

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Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 18, 2022, 09:28:36 AM

from https://bitnodes.io/

Seems there is like 51% of the network nodes on TOR right now?

To me that seems a little weird as I doubt normal users don't have a clue how to even setup a tor node.

It's not really much different setting one up with or without Tor.

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 18, 2022, 09:28:36 AM

Just wondered if anyone else noticed this and why there would be so many tor nodes spinning up.

I hadn't noticed, but as I said it can easily be a change in the way they probe for these for example, or something else entirely; in any case, more nodes is generally a good thing and nothing to be concerned about.

Also, what tells you there was a massive jump of Tor nodes? I can't see a statistic of this number over time; just bitnode's current number of around 52%. Was it much lower earlier or what?

Keep in mind as well that bitnode doesn't see everything. These kinds of sites work by crawling, and not all nodes do reply (on or off Tor), so always take the numbers with a grain of salt. There are estimations of global Bitcoin node count being double what bitnode is showing, for instance.

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from https://bitnodes.io/

Seems there is like 51% of the network nodes on TOR right now?

To me that seems a little weird as I doubt normal users don't have a clue how to even setup a tor node.

Just wondered if anyone else noticed this and why there would be so many tor nodes spinning up.

n0nce

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Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 18, 2022, 05:52:03 AM

Noticed a massive jump in Bitcoin nodes on the network Tor network 7818 (52.11%)

Would this be anything to be concerned about? being that it seems they are ramping very quickly?

Could this be some form of attack coming or someone just trying to mess with the network by syncing loads of nodes?

I don't know where you get this number from, but usually in these types of 'data anomalies', most of the time it's just due to a change in how data is retrieved / crawled / interpreted. You should ask the person running the network explorer you're using, if they changed anything in their software lately, since there was this jump of Tor nodes.

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Noticed a massive jump in Bitcoin nodes on the network Tor network 7818 (52.11%)

Would this be anything to be concerned about? being that it seems they are ramping very quickly?

Could this be some form of attack coming or someone just trying to mess with the network by syncing loads of nodes?

Topic: Tor Network & Bitcoin Nodes (Read 230 times)