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Topic: Transfer bitcoins without internet (Read 1022 times)

newbie
Activity: 6
Merit: 0
December 27, 2023, 07:49:37 AM
#59
 What is physical bitcoin? Is it like gold coins?
hero member
Activity: 2072
Merit: 603
May 21, 2023, 02:55:49 AM
#56
Hello everyone, greetings and respect, I have just implemented a bitcoin BTC payment system in my small community with cold wallets but not all of them are young with internet access. Many of them have expressed their concern to me. It all comes down to how can I transfer bitcoin payments to you without internet?

I do not know if this possibility had been discussed before in this wonderful forum. But I need your help to see if all together we can achieve this.



It's great that you have implemented a BTC payment system, but offline transactions require some technical know-how. You can explore options such as using paper wallets or hardware wallets to facilitate offline transactions, but it's important to educate your community members about the risks involved in handling cryptocurrencies offline.


It seems that the idea of having offline transactions is disappearing slowly because most of the developers are not thinking about it or most of them making it least of their priorities. But someday we gonna need offline system. I even tried to discuss the SMS based system for sending and receiving bitcoins and system does look simple to implement if proper minds are put together. On giant scale we will only need to use existing infrastructure that everyone knows about it. The EDGE and 5G is the key for this.

Paper wallets are not the key for this. That’s most insecure one and it’s time consuming. You need loaded wallets for that which ain’t good idea in the long run. Just hoping for some of the developers liking this idea someday.
hero member
Activity: 1008
Merit: 508
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
May 19, 2023, 04:37:24 PM
#55
It has been discussed somewhere in the forum and a user recommended https://blockstream.com/satellite/ where you can configure any satellite antenna in your area to receive signals from the blockstream satellite network and transact bitcoin free of charge without any internet. You'll just have to set it up, position the antenna to face the sky, and read carefully their main page, the requirements and help. The blockchain technology keeps advancing, people shouldn't bother about some barriers, as most barriers are being worked on by developers and settled to avoid future dispute, which may erupt from the government.
member
Activity: 329
Merit: 27
Chainjoes.com
May 06, 2023, 04:54:56 AM
#54
To designed anything that will bring this possibility will definitely be a deviation from is core purpose of Decentralization and transaction confirmation mechanism. The only thing that can happen is to design a more sophisticated Technology that can provide Internet connection to the world.  I would suggest an internet Network that will be able to cover a continent or more through the use of satellites just like the ones used for transmission for television stations.

You can build an off-chain method to send/receive bitcoin with an SMS service; as mentioned here- https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-without-internet-sms-service-allows-sending-btc-with-a-text
It's basically a USSD dial-up method where one central party will maintain the accounting while the users can send/receive bitcoin by their mobile number or through a bitcoin address adjusted to every number. Users will only see the figure while the central party will have the access to the fund for the on-chain transaction. Pretty much easy I guess.

I think this system will the most risky, it will introduce more theft into the system. More fraudulent activities will take over the whole system
sr. member
Activity: 1260
Merit: 267
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April 26, 2023, 11:55:03 AM
#53
Let me ask you, what cold wallet did you teach your community that they should use? then why don't you try to put an internet or wifi connection there in your place or house, this is just my suggestion.

       So when someone pays you bitcoin using their cold wallet, you can connect them to your wifi spot so that you can do the transaction properly and not have problems like that.
copper member
Activity: 502
Merit: 63
3JGWcqUePDp5LqRNkTHuxcq8AX9iqu1HFz
April 22, 2023, 02:37:51 PM
#52
Hello everyone, greetings and respect, I have just implemented a bitcoin BTC payment system in my small community with cold wallets but not all of them are young with internet access. Many of them have expressed their concern to me. It all comes down to how can I transfer bitcoin payments to you without internet?

I do not know if this possibility had been discussed before in this wonderful forum. But I need your help to see if all together we can achieve this.



It's great that you have implemented a BTC payment system, but offline transactions require some technical know-how. You can explore options such as using paper wallets or hardware wallets to facilitate offline transactions, but it's important to educate your community members about the risks involved in handling cryptocurrencies offline.
sr. member
Activity: 672
Merit: 490
April 21, 2023, 05:19:35 AM
#51
Hello everyone, greetings and respect, I have just implemented a bitcoin BTC payment system in my small community with cold wallets but not all of them are young with internet access. Many of them have expressed their concern to me. It all comes down to how can I transfer bitcoin payments to you without internet?

I do not know if this possibility had been discussed before in this wonderful forum. But I need your help to see if all together we can achieve this.


It would be a milestone achievement to have bitcoin transacted and signed offline without internet connection as such tech would be of greater advantage to those in the hinter areas that lacks internet access like yours do. But for now, there's no such means of bitcoin payment without the use of the internet. However, in the nearest future there should be a breakthrough, hopefully.
@OP,  I must say, I envy your zeal to bringing bitcoin to the doorstep of your community and the lack of access to internet shouldn't deter you.
newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 1
April 18, 2023, 09:10:53 AM
#50
Sure, you can sign your transaction offline and broadcast transaction online.
tool:
https://github.com/CryptoDappRun/Bitcoin-Signer-Wallet
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
April 13, 2023, 08:32:27 PM
#49
Internet is definitely the most popular way Bitcoin transactions are broadcast across the blockchain network. Without it, thousands of computers around the world will not be able to validate the transaction to update the network. This will absolutly slow down the process of the transaction.
However, in case of total failure of internet, there are other alternatives to send bitcoin transactions. In fact in 2017, Blockstream, a company dedicated to improving Bitcoin functionality, has announced that they succeded to develop a method to send bitcoin via satellite without the need to have access to internet.
Since bitcoin transactions are completely  public, data can be sent and exchanged via other methods then the internet. However, due to it's efficiency, internet will remain the main way for bitcoin transactions.
legendary
Activity: 3388
Merit: 1943
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April 12, 2023, 04:32:04 AM
#48
You can print Paper wallets with small amounts of bitcoin on it and then have people exchanging Paper wallets, but then you have to obscure the Private key. Someone has to secure the private keys and then provide it to them, when the people want to extract their bitcoins to their own online wallets.

This is definitely not the ideal scenario to use Bitcoin, because it centralizes the control of the Private keys and there are no transactions being done on the Blockchain, but it is cheaper than doing it on the Blockchain.  Tongue
full member
Activity: 361
Merit: 110
April 11, 2023, 09:09:09 PM
#47
Basically write the private key on a piece of paper. Give it to the other fucker =D

Problem is, must forget about the private key, don't copy it ! Wink

One possibility comes to mind:

Some kind of service... that generates private keys in an encrypted form.

Give the password to the other fucker... give the private encrypted key to the other fucker.

Send money/bitcoins to this key.

So everybody remain blind, except the guy getting the private key...

He must then be able to decode it, have the password... Hmmmmm...

Homomorphic encryption might be a solution for this, or maybe not...

And otherwise seperate the encrypted private keys from password key into different channels, so that none of both... might help somewhat Wink

Finally a technical solution:

The private key could stay encrypted. Using homopathetic encryption.

The password key could be given out... as well, possible also encrypted.

Both are then used to perform operations on the private key in a homopathetic encryption method.

Thus the only thing required is the possesion of both.

To prove to the system that both are in possession zero knowledge proof could be executed based on both possesions.

So that decryption of private key or password is never truely necessary.

Just ownership is enough...

However to be able to actually do anything with it, requires owner ship and plugging it into some system to ultimately use it with bitcoin system ofcourse...

However if such technology available, then both could be copied... but one must get access to both...

Little bit interesting.
member
Activity: 468
Merit: 13
March 07, 2023, 01:24:12 PM
#46
Hello everyone, greetings and respect, I have just implemented a bitcoin BTC payment system in my small community with cold wallets but not all of them are young with internet access. Many of them have expressed their concern to me. It all comes down to how can I transfer bitcoin payments to you without internet?

I do not know if this possibility had been discussed before in this wonderful forum. But I need your help to see if all together we can achieve this.



No. You can not. You need the internet to verify the transactions of the blockchain. Let's assume I need to send bitcoins to MARS. If you can build a satellite network (Like bitcoin nodes), then you can send bitcoin to any planet.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18492
March 04, 2023, 04:19:49 AM
#45
If a company does something untrustworthy, customer can just report it with proof, then other companies will want to do better to have better rating and outcompet the ones with bad rating who we expect should be punished if proven guilty. Customers also will avoid those with proven bad report/ratings.
While true, this does absolutely nothing to protect all the users who have already used that company or entity - it simply stops future users from falling victim to the same scan.

It is quite interesting that just a couple of weeks after I made that post, a highly trusted and respected user on this forum - yogg - did exactly what I said here and stole the coins from a whole bunch of collectibles he had made and secretly kept the private keys for.

In regards to what the poster you quoted said, I think we could just compensate the price change by giving changes to customers. If a customer comes to pay for a product that is worth $5 with $5 worth of physical satoshi, the seller can just give the customer $1 change if the satoshi becomes $6. Ofcourse you may still need the internet to observe the Bitcoin price change .. Alternatively the village could use fm, short or medium wave radio stations to monitor price change by dedicated price monitoring/broadcasting stations
It's not just an issue of seeing the current price, but then you need to make another bitcoin transaction. If there is internet, then we don't need to use physical bitcoin at all. If there isn't internet, then the merchant will need to have a physical bitcoin with the exact denomination already pre-loaded, and then the whole issue of trust comes back in to play yet again.
Ucy
sr. member
Activity: 2576
Merit: 401
March 03, 2023, 12:48:24 PM
#44
Still, there could be lots of limitations we may experience with physical bitcoin like we may not get exact denomination to pay or volatility of bitcoin prices might become a concern for the entire concept of paying in physical bitcoins.



Far more importantly is the issue of trust. You have to trust that the person who made the physical bitcoin did not secretly keep a copy of the private key for themselves and could steal your coins at any time.
.....


The power of evidence-based public trust rating by customers should not be underestimated. If a company does something untrustworthy, customer can just report it with proof, then other companies will want to do better to have better rating and outcompet the ones with bad rating who we expect should be punished if proven guilty. Customers also will avoid those with proven bad report/ratings.

In regards to what the poster you quoted said, I think we could just compensate the price change by giving changes to customers. If a customer comes to pay for a product that is worth $5 with $5 worth of physical satoshi, the seller can just give the customer $1 change if the satoshi becomes $6. Ofcourse you may still need the internet to observe the Bitcoin price change .. Alternatively the village could use fm, short or medium wave radio stations to monitor price change by dedicated price monitoring/broadcasting stations
sr. member
Activity: 1260
Merit: 267
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January 28, 2023, 10:03:23 AM
#43
Hello everyone, greetings and respect, I have just implemented a bitcoin BTC payment system in my small community with cold wallets but not all of them are young with internet access. Many of them have expressed their concern to me. It all comes down to how can I transfer bitcoin payments to you without internet?

I do not know if this possibility had been discussed before in this wonderful forum. But I need your help to see if all together we can achieve this.



     What kind of wallet do you suggest to your customers? So what country are you in now? Because here in my country we have local wallet apps that can be used with features that accept bitcoin and crypto other cryptocurrencies such as coins.h, Maya apps, and others.

I'll add that the 711 convenient outlets also become a way to get money into bitcoin going to coins, right?

legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18492
January 15, 2023, 09:44:17 AM
#42
If there would be a service that receives transactions that are signed and ready to send. Would it be possible for the owner of this service to change something in the transaction to betray the sending person, or can a signed transaction not be changed/abused in any way?
Transaction malleability refers to the ability of a third party to change an already signed transaction. In this case you are referring to a service for broadcasting transactions, but this could also refer to any node which could change the transaction prior to relaying it to other nodes, or any miner which could change the transaction prior to including it in a block.

Transaction malleability does not allow the third party to change anything about the important parts of the transaction. They cannot change which coins are spent, which addresses these coins came from, which addresses they are going to, how much is going to each address, and how much is being spent as a fee. All of this information is covered by the transaction signature, and so if someone tries to change any of it, the signature would no longer be valid and the entire transaction would be rejected.

There are some parts of a transaction which are not covered by the signature, though, and so can be changed by a third party. While the core parts of the transaction stay the same as above, the outcome of any such change means the transaction has a different TXID. For most cases this is completely irrelevant. However, as we know, when you spend a bitcoin UTXO, the network identifies the UTXO you are spending based on the TXID of the transaction which created that UTXO. So if someone was to spend a UTXO from an unconfirmed transaction, and then that unconfirmed transaction was altered to have a different TXID before it was mined, the transaction spending those unconfirmed UTXOs would now be invalid, since it is referring to a TXID which no longer exists.

The whole point of segwit was to fix transaction malleability. The smaller transaction virtual size (which most people think was the real reason behind segwit) was a byproduct of fixing transaction malleability. While transaction malleability doesn't affect the vast majority of people, fixing it allows safely generating chains of unconfirmed transactions, which is core to how things like Lightning work.

So in summary the answer is no, a service for broadcasting transactions can't do any real harm to anyone who uses it (apart from invading their privacy, obviously). And if you want to avoid the possibility of transaction malleability altogether, just use segwit.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 634
Magic
January 15, 2023, 06:18:45 AM
#41
If there would be a service that receives transactions that are signed and ready to send. Would it be possible for the owner of this service to change something in the transaction to betray the sending person, or can a signed transaction not be changed/abused in any way?
sr. member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 268
January 14, 2023, 07:34:32 PM
#40
-snip-
You are confusing airgapped wallets with broadcasting transactions. It is of course entirely possible to run an airgapped wallet and transfer signed transactions to an online computer in order to be broadcast. What OP is asking is what to do if you do not have an online computer in order to broadcast your transaction.

I am not confusing airgapped wallets with broadcasting transactions as far as I know, you see the hr on the reply before I stated methods of sending transaction offline, there is no way I stated a broadcasting transaction on that part did I? I just summarized what had been discussed on the earlier replies.   Anyway, still thank you to the clarification.


Quote
In this case you need to use something like radio (as I've discussed earlier in this thread) to send your transaction to someone who does have an internet connection and can broadcast your transaction for you.

Indeed since this idea and procedure had been brought up in the earlier replies I think there is no need for me to reiterate what you had been explained since it is very clear and easy to understand.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18492
January 14, 2023, 08:01:56 AM
#39
Wallet such as Machankura is one of them.

https://machankura.com/
This looks like a really cool project. Have you used it, and does it work nicely? Can you use it to send Lightning payments to anyone, or only to other accounts within their system? The biggest obvious downside here is that it is entirely custodial. Would be great if you could instead run your own wallet on your phone, and instead simply send and receive transaction data and the like with their service via SMS.

-snip-
You are confusing airgapped wallets with broadcasting transactions. It is of course entirely possible to run an airgapped wallet and transfer signed transactions to an online computer in order to be broadcast. What OP is asking is what to do if you do not have an online computer in order to broadcast your transaction. In this case you need to use something like radio (as I've discussed earlier in this thread) to send your transaction to someone who does have an internet connection and can broadcast your transaction for you.
sr. member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 268
January 14, 2023, 04:07:06 AM
#38
There are methods stated on the earlier replies to send Bitcoin such as hardware wallet, QR code scanning etc.  But at the end of the day it needs to be broadcasted online for the blocks to confirm.  So there is no way to complete a transaction without using the internet.

It is worth noting that sending Bitcoin offline is way more complex than sending Bitcoin through internet.  Although these method increase the security I believe it has its own set of risks and limitation.


Methods of sending Bitcoin offline as stated on earlier replies
  • hardware wallet
  • paper wallets
  • QR code transaction
  • Air gapped device
  • infrared

newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
January 12, 2023, 11:56:59 PM
#37
Nope you cannot. you need to have acess to internet to send it safely
member
Activity: 140
Merit: 62
January 07, 2023, 04:40:03 AM
#36
Hello everyone, greetings and respect, I have just implemented a bitcoin BTC payment system in my small community with cold wallets but not all of them are young with internet access. Many of them have expressed their concern to me. It all comes down to how can I transfer bitcoin payments to you without internet?

I do not know if this possibility had been discussed before in this wonderful forum. But I need your help to see if all together we can achieve this.



Hi ya,

Depends where you're at some places you maybe able to use SMS to bypass internet availability issues.
Wallet such as Machankura is one of them.

https://machankura.com/

for other locations I use https://blockstream.info/tx/push or http://explorerzydxu5ecjrkwceayqybizmpjjznk5izmitf2modhcusuqlid.onion/tx/push with private tor bridge nodes to push my transaction to bitcoin main net and avoids censorship.

as far as getting your full node sync'ed to full height, one cheap method would be to use blockchain streaming services, some of which is free, which can be found at https://blockstream.com/satellite/#satellite_network-coverage

You can build your own satellite kit or keep your own node up and in sync like I did, but its effectiveness rely depend where you set sail.  Generally speaking you need somewhere close to 2Kbyte/sec of download speed to maintain sync for an full node (for receive payment), but much lesser if you want to send payment (most likely around 200-300 bytes, less if done via PW2PKH)
member
Activity: 124
Merit: 11
January 07, 2023, 04:35:05 AM
#35
This topic got me intrigued, so I did a little research on it. These techniques seem to be outdated, I don't know if they can be applied today, but they surely are something to take a look at.

Radio waves to transfer Bitcoins - https://twitter.com/nvk/status/1095340008293130242

SMS - https://rusnak.io/how-to-send-bitcoin-transactions-via-sms/

I would love to see some recreate sending them over a radio  Grin
hero member
Activity: 700
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January 07, 2023, 03:36:11 AM
#34
I do not know if this possibility had been discussed before in this wonderful forum. But I need your help to see if all together we can achieve this.

For now I don't think it's possible to transfer Bitcoin to other users without the use of Internet. And if you check other replies you'll see that the reasons have already been stated there. ( You need an internet connection to broadcast your transaction to the Blockchain).
Perhaps with the rate of development of technology nowadays and the constant development of Bitcoin, who knows maybe in the near future they might be able to figure out a way to send Bitcoin to other wallets without having to put your Bitcoin at risk i.e without losing your Bitcoin.
member
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Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!
January 07, 2023, 01:38:59 AM
#33
  Here in our country, you can buy Bitcoin at a convenience store called 711 which is partnered with coins. ph which is an app wallet for cryptocurrency. It's just that using coins ph requires internet so you can use the bitcoin you bought at the 711 outlet store.

  or we also have a local app wallet that can buy Bitcoin through p2p using a bank account if you have one or a Gcash wallet going to the exchange from our fiat currency we will buy USDT to buy Bitcoin.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 664
January 06, 2023, 05:17:24 AM
#32
This is much more achievable, but I don't believe it is now; perhaps later in the future when a system or a type of technology is introduced to make it possible. Bitcoin has a series of developmental stages with a specific program for that purpose. All of this sends signals to each other prior to any block confirmation into the blockchain. Sending bitcoin without an internet connection will create a barrier to communication between these nodes/software. For the time being, I don't think this is possible, but hopefully we can develop a system that allows us to send funds even when there is no internet or when there is a network outage.
sr. member
Activity: 518
Merit: 281
January 05, 2023, 06:09:09 PM
#31
Hello everyone, greetings and respect, I have just implemented a bitcoin BTC payment system in my small community with cold wallets but not all of them are young with internet access. Many of them have expressed their concern to me. It all comes down to how can I transfer bitcoin payments to you without internet?

I do not know if this possibility had been discussed before in this wonderful forum. But I need your help to see if all together we can achieve this.

I don't know much about this, but I do know that bitcoin uses a network, similar to a road map; I'm referring to the blockchain network. Every bitcoin mined is somehow conveyed and added to the blockchain through a series of confirmations that miners must verify online. I don't think this can be done without the internet.
legendary
Activity: 2716
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December 30, 2022, 08:00:24 AM
#30
The only way I know that you can transfer bitcoin without the internet is with a physical device such as an Opendime or this new SatsCard product that is being released. Both are by CoinKite but they both require a certain level of trust.
Opendimes aren't wallets that can transfer bitcoins in and out. They are physical USB-looking paper wallets. You generate its private key yourself by copying random files to it to provide enough entropy. That's the difference between an Opendime and a physical coin whose creator could have made a backup of its private key. There is no backup to make with the Opendime since the key is created locally on your side when you want to use it. That's the theory, at least. I am not aware of any known bugs where people have lost their coins that would suggest that someone else might have known the private key, unless it's a user mistake of course. 

When you hand someone an Opendime, you can't consider that a transaction has occurred and say that it did without the use of internet. It's the same as giving someone a piece of paper where there is an address or a QR code and a private key. There was no transaction. You just gave someone a funded address and a way to reveal the private key of that address that allows the person to spend the coins. When that person wants to spend their BTC, an on-chain transaction needs to be broadcasted using the revealed private key. 
member
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December 30, 2022, 07:08:10 AM
#29
But in practice, amount of stale/orphan block is very low. Based on BitMex monitoring tool[1], there are only 46 detected stale block since 20-08-2020[2].

[1] https://forkmonitor.info/notifications
[2] https://forkmonitor.info/feeds/stale_candidates/btc.rss

well, forking and subsequent reorgs are local events, so we cannot be sure forkmonitor offers a statistical reliable view from global/overall perspective. But agreeing it does (I'm sure actual tuning cause few forks/reorgs because of the 10sec/10min ratio), my point is that long propagation times due to offline nodes, only sporadically peering with the BTC network, would increase the risk.
Disconnected nodes/client cannot be sure to share an updated status of the ledger, and if they are enough to have miners between them, well.. enjoy the mess Smiley  ...the matter is that BTC has a global consensus model, but the way it works depends on quite strictly bounded propagation times (which cannot be taken for granted with a significant number of offline nodes)
member
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December 30, 2022, 04:54:13 AM
#28
Hi everybody

about this thread, I hope it's useful to remember that propagation time / mining interval ratio is of huge importance regarding forks/reorgs and so double spending issues, but also underline that it has a role in setting sufficient conditions about safe honest/byzantine nodes ratio... so an offline scenario is highly risky considering a Nakamoto Consensus network as a whole. I guess sharding could be a plan-b, but I'm currently not expert enough to speak about it, and more important it wouldn't be BTC anymore (at least not as we know it now)
sr. member
Activity: 1652
Merit: 434
December 29, 2022, 08:28:15 AM
#27
Buy a bunch of those Starlink kits that let you connect to their sattelite infrastructure, and put them outside in some designated area, along with some WiFi boosters if you want.

Then half of the job is done. Then you just have to worry about making a cheap hardware wallet. Or possibly figure out how to make a basic bitcoin wallet for Nokia phones (which run Symbian).


I agree with what you said, Nowadays for a housing unit to have internet you need to connect with an internet provider so you can have a wifi connection. And for this to happen there must be a nearby satellite range of the internet provider you have chosen.

It used to be when there was no wifi, to have internet you must have broadband, to have access to communication in different parts of the world. And time passed when there was pocket wifi which is like broadband as well as portable. I remembered that in 2014 broadband and free internet data promo was the only way to open up to a cryptocurrency like this, wifi was not a trend at that time.

But even so, no one has invented anything that can transact bitcoin without using the internet.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18492
December 28, 2022, 05:10:28 AM
#26
Well hold on now. Would it be possible, technically, if for example he lived in a small village with a computer and a landline but without internet, and he had a fax machine, could he not develop a method of connecting the reconfigured fax to a node (which has internet access) through that landline and the node would broadcast to the blockchain? Technically he would be sending Bitcoin payments without internet connection.
That would certainly be possible, although there are probably easier ways of doing it than reprogramming a fax machine.

As I said in my reply which you quoted, the individuals themselves don't necessarily need internet access, but the transaction must reach the internet somehow. If there is a local node with internet access, then any method of getting your signed transaction to that local node to be broadcast would work. Transmitting over telephone lines via a modem, a reprogrammed fax machine, or something else, is certainly a possibility, as is radio, mesh networks, SMS, going there in person with the transaction on a USB drive, and so on.
legendary
Activity: 2002
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December 27, 2022, 05:28:08 PM
#25
It all comes down to how can I transfer bitcoin payments to you without internet?
You can't. A transaction must be broadcast to the network via the internet in order to be verified and then mined in to a block.

That does not mean, however, that each individual needs internet access. You simply need some way of getting a transaction on to the internet. Each person can easily sign transactions on their offline devices, and then save those transactions as a small text file. All you need then is some way of getting those small text files to a person/node/service who will broadcast them for you. If you have a public WiFi spot in your community, then you can travel there and use that. If one person has a mobile device or similar with internet access, they could potentially set up a service broadcasting transactions on behalf of other people. There are services which allow you to send transactions via SMS as pointed out above. You could even transmit a transaction via phone call or radio to someone with an internet connection who could broadcast it on your behalf.

Since you are posting on this forum, you must have internet access somehow. Could you set up a method using whatever connection you are on now to broadcast transaction on behalf of your community?

Well hold on now. Would it be possible, technically, if for example he lived in a small village with a computer and a landline but without internet, and he had a fax machine, could he not develop a method of connecting the reconfigured fax to a node (which has internet access) through that landline and the node would broadcast to the blockchain? Technically he would be sending Bitcoin payments without internet connection.

hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 645
December 27, 2022, 03:59:33 PM
#24

I take this to be one of the short comings of bitcoin as, it always requires an Internet to work it. On like local financial institutions for which, they've got a substitute form of communicating your financial payments with various institutions without having to use the network.

For most developing nations, they've got the unstructured supplementary service data (ussd) that opens a gateway to enable transactions for low income earners and people without Internet enabled devices to have unrestricted tra sections.

I think this should be available for cryptocurrency as well. Tapping into local network to have it broadcasted or I don't know what am saying... just trying to wrap my head about how this is obtainable in fiat and the possibility of adopting it for crypto transactions.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18492
December 24, 2022, 06:52:42 AM
#23
Still, there could be lots of limitations we may experience with physical bitcoin like we may not get exact denomination to pay or volatility of bitcoin prices might become a concern for the entire concept of paying in physical bitcoins.
Far more importantly is the issue of trust. You have to trust that the person who made the physical bitcoin did not secretly keep a copy of the private key for themselves and could steal your coins at any time. There are some ways to mitigate this such as using devices like OpenDimes, but these are not cheap and would be prohibitively expensive to scale to a full sized economy for a village or town. And even if you have complete trust that the private key has not been compromised, you still have no way of verifying how much coin is actually on the device without an internet connection to look up the address on a block explorer or to run your own node.

As I said previously, OP obviously has an internet connection somehow because he is posting here. The best solution will be for him to set up a hub which people an use to broadcast their transactions. And if the people in his community don't want to trust him to also be their node/block explorer, then they could use blockstream satellite to run their own node without and internet connection so they can verify OP is actually broadcasting their transaction as he says he is.
hero member
Activity: 1386
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Always Act Smart and Play Safe With Your Funds
December 24, 2022, 05:17:11 AM
#22
I have actually came across a post that they said of sending bitcoin without internet though it was through infrared with no much distance from the sender and receiver, at last was said of needed internet connection for the block to confirm the payment. Naturally i don't think is possible to send out bitcoin without the internet connection.

There is a related post within this topic read here more:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/improving-offline-wallets-ie-cold-storage-68482
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/has-there-been-a-post-about-sending-bitcoin-via-infrared-and-bluetooth-can-it-5397568
sr. member
Activity: 644
Merit: 271
December 24, 2022, 02:31:09 AM
#21
   -  First of all, it's good to know that you're doing something to bring bitcoin closer to the community place you're in, mate. Just like you said not all places can reach the internet.

Now as for sending bitcoins to other people without using the internet, I don't know if anyone has thought of such a way. As far as I know, at this time no one has ever transacted by sending bitcoin without the internet being used. In short, it's not possible right now, to be honest.
legendary
Activity: 1526
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bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
December 21, 2022, 09:43:20 AM
#20
Buy a bunch of those Starlink kits that let you connect to their sattelite infrastructure, and put them outside in some designated area, along with some WiFi boosters if you want.

Then half of the job is done. Then you just have to worry about making a cheap hardware wallet. Or possibly figure out how to make a basic bitcoin wallet for Nokia phones (which run Symbian).
sr. member
Activity: 1895
Merit: 328
December 21, 2022, 07:33:44 AM
#19
I guess with the help of physical bitcoin, transacting bitcoin without internet is possible but counterfeiting would be a big problem. So, we need lots of infrastructure set up are needed basically to prevent those scammers and abusers. But, I guess in near future we may experience transacting with physical bitcoin with proper set up if some corporate decides about.

Still, there could be lots of limitations we may experience with physical bitcoin like we may not get exact denomination to pay or volatility of bitcoin prices might become a concern for the entire concept of paying in physical bitcoins.
sr. member
Activity: 644
Merit: 271
December 19, 2022, 09:03:01 AM
#18
Hello everyone, greetings and respect, I have just implemented a bitcoin BTC payment system in my small community with cold wallets but not all of them are young with internet access. Many of them have expressed their concern to me. It all comes down to how can I transfer bitcoin payments to you without internet?

I do not know if this possibility had been discussed before in this wonderful forum. But I need your help to see if all together we can achieve this.



   -  If you have implemented a bitcoin payment system in the local community where you are located, that means you have a business in your area, right? if yes, what kind of business do you have there now? is it some kind of mini grocery?

In short, it seems that only a few people in your area have internet access, so they can pay you in Bitcoin, is that right? Also, what you say that you can send bitcoin without internet access is not possible at this time. And I have never seen such a transaction that was able to transfer bitcoin without a data connection.
sr. member
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Pizza Maker 2023 | Bitcoinbeer.events
December 16, 2022, 06:09:29 PM
#17
Hello everyone, greetings and respect, I have just implemented a bitcoin BTC payment system in my small community with cold wallets but not all of them are young with internet access. Many of them have expressed their concern to me. It all comes down to how can I transfer bitcoin payments to you without internet?

I do not know if this possibility had been discussed before in this wonderful forum. But I need your help to see if all together we can achieve this.



Hi, mmh this could be a problem unfortunately the bitcoin network needs internet but you could still make transactions offline which would always require a connection afterwards anyway.  Rather which country are we talking about?  How come there is no possibility to have a connection even of poor quality?
hero member
Activity: 630
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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
December 16, 2022, 12:31:04 PM
#16
You can just pass on a storage device where a signed bitcoin transaction is stored. The receiver can then just "cash in" this transaction at any time when he gets to a location with internet connect. Still it is not a perfect way, since you still need the connection at some point.
I have stressed my brain and even searched so well on the internet if this is possible to make and complete a Bitcoin transaction without the internet. I'm afraid, all are pointing to one fact, 'it's not possible.' Bitcoin works with blockchain technology and this will always require the internet to validate/complete every valid transaction.

And from what you have explained, it's reasonable, yet it will always cause delays in transactions which BTC doesn't naturally cause.
sr. member
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★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
December 16, 2022, 11:47:09 AM
#15
Hello everyone, greetings and respect, I have just implemented a bitcoin BTC payment system in my small community with cold wallets but not all of them are young with internet access. Many of them have expressed their concern to me. It all comes down to how can I transfer bitcoin payments to you without internet?

I do not know if this possibility had been discussed before in this wonderful forum. But I need your help to see if all together we can achieve this.



For now, let's accept the fact that we cannot send bitcoin to another wallet anywhere in the world without the internet, this is the truth here bro.

     So, there is nothing we can do but follow that we must always have a data connection, for those of us who want to make activity here in cryptocurrency even here in this forum platform. But as far as I know, it is already known if it is possible to have no net in bitcoin in the future, let's just wait for that if we are still alive.
hero member
Activity: 868
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Magic
December 12, 2022, 01:46:53 PM
#14
You can just pass on a storage device where a signed bitcoin transaction is stored. The receiver can then just "cash in" this transaction at any time when he gets to a location with internet connect. Still it is not a perfect way, since you still need the connection at some point.
hero member
Activity: 1358
Merit: 850
December 12, 2022, 01:12:56 PM
#13
You can build an off-chain method to send/receive bitcoin with an SMS service; as mentioned here- https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-without-internet-sms-service-allows-sending-btc-with-a-text
It's basically a USSD dial-up method where one central party will maintain the accounting while the users can send/receive bitcoin by their mobile number or through a bitcoin address adjusted to every number. Users will only see the figure while the central party will have the access to the fund for the on-chain transaction. Pretty much easy I guess.
legendary
Activity: 2982
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Top Crypto Casino
December 11, 2022, 01:47:06 PM
#12
A lot of people had the same issue, and a way they create to fix this issue is by broadcasting the transactions over ham radio.

If you think about the process, even if the transaction gets broadcasted on the Radio it needs to hit internet at some point, that's why you need to configure a computer with internet to get those radio signals and broadcast the transactions in the blockchain.


Some sources:
https://www.shtfblog.com/how-to-send-bitcoin-over-ham-radio/
https://www.wired.com/story/cypherpunks-bitcoin-ham-radio/
https://news.bitcoin.com/no-internet-no-problem-how-to-send-bitcoin-by-amateur-radio/
legendary
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December 08, 2022, 04:54:14 PM
#11
Hello everyone, greetings and respect, I have just implemented a bitcoin BTC payment system in my small community with cold wallets but not all of them are young with internet access. Many of them have expressed their concern to me. It all comes down to how can I transfer bitcoin payments to you without internet?
Easiest way would be to use something like bitcoin notes that can later be used to withdraw bitcoin to your wallet, and they can be used similar like we use cash today.
Other option is with Opendime usb drives made by Coinkite Coldcard wallet team, or there are alternatives that use format of credit cards like Satodime and you can give this to other people.
I also heard there is a way of sending BTC with sms messages, but this is centralized, or with radio waves, but that is to complicated for most people.
Ucy
sr. member
Activity: 2576
Merit: 401
December 08, 2022, 06:33:22 AM
#10
Hello everyone, greetings and respect, I have just implemented a bitcoin BTC payment system in my small community with cold wallets but not all of them are young with internet access. Many of them have expressed their concern to me. It all comes down to how can I transfer bitcoin payments to you without internet?

I do not know if this possibility had been discussed before in this wonderful forum. But I need your help to see if all together we can achieve this.




One of the ways to handle this is to have a trustworthy Bitcoin/crypto business that prints many private keys loaded with small amount of Bitcoin on multiple cards and sell them to people.

It could be done this way:
On the back of the cards, print multiple Bitcoin private keys that contain small amount of bitcoins and seal the keys with tough scratchable materials - > then write for example 6 digit codes on the tough seal and seal with another seal that's less tough . The card buyers will first of all scratch off the top seal to reveal the codes then verify that the card is genuine by sending the codes to the verifying company via sms. Once the codes have been unsealed the card may no longer be transferable.
The final owner of the card can go ahead and unseal the second layer to claim the private keys.


This should be done securely with a reputable company to keep the private keys safe especially during printing & sealing. I prefer private keys loaded with small amount of bitcoins to lessen the risk of losing a card with private keys that contain huge amounts of bitcoins. Your customers could buy many cards when they want to pay for goods/services that cost a lot of money.
newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 14
December 06, 2022, 01:32:06 PM
#9
what do you think about the radio frequency spectrum (although Satoshi in the white paper says BTC is an electronic payment system) it is only sending a few bytes through waves to be able to sign and verify transactions in that radio that in the end will be connected to the blockain network in some way that right now I don't know.
It's certainly doable and has been done before. Check out the following links for example:
https://www.shtfblog.com/how-to-send-bitcoin-over-ham-radio/
https://nitter.net/Coinsurenz/status/1052022462790033408

Probably the best way to do it would be to set up a mesh network via something like GoTenna (as the user in that Twitter link above did), with a person with an internet connection on the other end. Then you can cover a wider geographical area and anyone can send a transaction via the mesh network to the central point of internet access in order to be broadcast.

Note that you aren't sending data which needs to be "signed and verified" via radio, as you put it. Each user would sign the transaction they want to make locally on their own device, and would then send that signed transaction through the mesh network in order to reach the person who can broadcast it on their behalf.

Thank you very much I think I can do this it helps me a lot https://news.bitcoin.com/no-internet-no-problem-how-to-send-bitcoin-by-amateur-radio/ Everything I need to transfer successfully Bitcoin, or any cryptocurrency, is to know the public keys of the intended recipient. If I have that, I can use ham radio to send money. No internet needed! However, this technology is new and the process is somewhat complicated (there is not much information about it) but I think I can do it. Thanks super geniuses!
member
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Humble Bitcoin Stacktivist
December 06, 2022, 08:09:22 AM
#8
Hello everyone, greetings and respect, I have just implemented a bitcoin BTC payment system in my small community with cold wallets but not all of them are young with internet access. Many of them have expressed their concern to me. It all comes down to how can I transfer bitcoin payments to you without internet?

I do not know if this possibility had been discussed before in this wonderful forum. But I need your help to see if all together we can achieve this.


The only way I know that you can transfer bitcoin without the internet is with a physical device such as an Opendime or this new SatsCard product that is being released. Both are by CoinKite but they both require a certain level of trust.

Another way that you can transact with bitcoin but not on-chain is with networked lightning nodes. They can be networked with either a mesh network for greater distances or hardwired for short distances but you would still need internet to be able to open and close channels.

There is a group of bitcoiners in Berlin who are using lightning offline with a city mesh network (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freifunk) to transact amongst each other without being connected to the internet. The lightning nodes only need to be able to communicate with each other directly to update the state of the channels. When either party wants to close or open a new channel, they would need an internet connection but since you mentioned not everyone in your community has internet access, this could be part of your solution. 
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18492
December 06, 2022, 07:30:31 AM
#7
what do you think about the radio frequency spectrum (although Satoshi in the white paper says BTC is an electronic payment system) it is only sending a few bytes through waves to be able to sign and verify transactions in that radio that in the end will be connected to the blockain network in some way that right now I don't know.
It's certainly doable and has been done before. Check out the following links for example:
https://www.shtfblog.com/how-to-send-bitcoin-over-ham-radio/
https://nitter.net/Coinsurenz/status/1052022462790033408

Probably the best way to do it would be to set up a mesh network via something like GoTenna (as the user in that Twitter link above did), with a person with an internet connection on the other end. Then you can cover a wider geographical area and anyone can send a transaction via the mesh network to the central point of internet access in order to be broadcast.

Note that you aren't sending data which needs to be "signed and verified" via radio, as you put it. Each user would sign the transaction they want to make locally on their own device, and would then send that signed transaction through the mesh network in order to reach the person who can broadcast it on their behalf.
newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 14
December 06, 2022, 07:03:23 AM
#6
It all comes down to how can I transfer bitcoin payments to you without internet?
You can't. A transaction must be broadcast to the network via the internet in order to be verified and then mined in to a block.

That does not mean, however, that each individual needs internet access. You simply need some way of getting a transaction on to the internet. Each person can easily sign transactions on their offline devices, and then save those transactions as a small text file. All you need then is some way of getting those small text files to a person/node/service who will broadcast them for you. If you have a public WiFi spot in your community, then you can travel there and use that. If one person has a mobile device or similar with internet access, they could potentially set up a service broadcasting transactions on behalf of other people. There are services which allow you to send transactions via SMS as pointed out above. You could even transmit a transaction via phone call or radio to someone with an internet connection who could broadcast it on your behalf.

Since you are posting on this forum, you must have internet access somehow. Could you set up a method using whatever connection you are on now to broadcast transaction on behalf of your community?

Thanks for the information, you who are masters in this new technology, what do you think about the radio frequency spectrum (although Satoshi in the white paper says BTC is an electronic payment system) it is only sending a few bytes through waves to be able to sign and verify transactions in that radio that in the end will be connected to the blockain network in some way that right now I don't know.
legendary
Activity: 1344
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Farewell, Leo
December 05, 2022, 09:05:39 AM
#5
In theory, trust is eliminated by following the chain with the most work, hereby by setting up a full node which listens to the Bitcoin network which verifies every transaction and enforces the protocol rules. If you don't have the chain to verify, you need to trust someone else.

So, if the members in your community don't have Internet access, trust is required. Their best course is likely, as described by o_e_l_e_o, to trust you for doing that.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18492
December 05, 2022, 08:52:44 AM
#4
It all comes down to how can I transfer bitcoin payments to you without internet?
You can't. A transaction must be broadcast to the network via the internet in order to be verified and then mined in to a block.

That does not mean, however, that each individual needs internet access. You simply need some way of getting a transaction on to the internet. Each person can easily sign transactions on their offline devices, and then save those transactions as a small text file. All you need then is some way of getting those small text files to a person/node/service who will broadcast them for you. If you have a public WiFi spot in your community, then you can travel there and use that. If one person has a mobile device or similar with internet access, they could potentially set up a service broadcasting transactions on behalf of other people. There are services which allow you to send transactions via SMS as pointed out above. You could even transmit a transaction via phone call or radio to someone with an internet connection who could broadcast it on your behalf.

Since you are posting on this forum, you must have internet access somehow. Could you set up a method using whatever connection you are on now to broadcast transaction on behalf of your community?
hero member
Activity: 2954
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Top Crypto Casino
December 05, 2022, 04:21:20 AM
#3
It's still not possible to that but who knows in the future if there will be some great developments that will happen. Like IIRC, there's this satellite technology that would be like to cover the entire world with a connection on its own and from there, that could be where it's possible to happen.
But right now, we don't see it yet because a transaction needs to be mined and confirmed and for it to be confirmed and mined, it'll require to get to connected to the web/internet.
legendary
Activity: 3206
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Block halving is coming.
December 04, 2022, 07:29:47 PM
#2
Bitcoin is not the same as a grin/beam coin where you can able to send offline sending Bitcoin still needs the internet to be able to broadcast the transaction to the mainnet.

You can make transactions offline but you still need an online device to create raw unsign transaction and sign it to your offline device.
So it still needs the internet to send Bitcoin.
newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 14
December 04, 2022, 06:51:34 PM
#1
Hello everyone, greetings and respect, I have just implemented a bitcoin BTC payment system in my small community with cold wallets but not all of them are young with internet access. Many of them have expressed their concern to me. It all comes down to how can I transfer bitcoin payments to you without internet?

I do not know if this possibility had been discussed before in this wonderful forum. But I need your help to see if all together we can achieve this.

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