Go hack away take it
Topic: trezor hung during seed creation (Read 124 times)
Go hack away take it
I don’t have a Trezor, so I’m wondering if it is really necessary to type each word in its entirety to check the correctness of the seed? When I did the seed entry on Ledger, and so it is with Electrum - entering the initials of each word, a suggestion is shown and the correct word can be selected, which reduces the whole process to less than 5 minutes.
Actually, you don't type anything in the advanced recovery mode. The whole process is similar to the PIN entry. This blog post shows it in a more detailed way. You don't need to enter the whole word; it looks that only 4 letters are needed for each word.
It takes a lot of time to enter all words, especially if you have a 24 word recovery phrase, but at least you don't expose your recovery phrase.
I don’t have a Trezor, so I’m wondering if it is really necessary to type each word in its entirety to check the correctness of the seed? When I did the seed entry on Ledger, and so it is with Electrum - entering the initials of each word, a suggestion is shown and the correct word can be selected, which reduces the whole process to less than 5 minutes.
Also, checked through the seed checking and seed recovery process...even though the order is randomized, doesn't reducing the attackable word space to 24 pretty seriously weaken the key? I mean, I just entered the words in a browser ffs...
You could have checked "Advanced recovery" box before you started the wallet recovery. It takes a lot of time to enter all words, especially if you have a 24 word recovery phrase, but at least you don't expose your recovery phrase. Here you can find step-by-step instructions.
There we go. That's what I needed. Thank you, I did not see that option. Yes, entering the words with a 2 button interface would be fiddly, but I am not going to trust a seed that I have not TESTED recovery of, nor one that I have exposed the word space to the internet, even though 24 factorial is a large search, the quantums are coming.
Your help is appreciated.
Also, checked through the seed checking and seed recovery process...even though the order is randomized, doesn't reducing the attackable word space to 24 pretty seriously weaken the key? I mean, I just entered the words in a browser ffs...
You could have checked "Advanced recovery" box before you started the wallet recovery. It takes a lot of time to enter all words, especially if you have a 24 word recovery phrase, but at least you don't expose your recovery phrase. Here you can find step-by-step instructions.
Also, checked through the seed checking and seed recovery process...even though the order is randomized, doesn't reducing the attackable word space to 24 pretty seriously weaken the key? I mean, I just entered the words in a browser ffs...
Entering your mnemonic code via the PC is never good.
Even tho the search space is way smaller now, 6.2 x 1023 is still way too much to simply bruteforce it.
If your device was compromised, the attacker would have all of your words of the mnemonic code, but not their order. This still makes it 24! possiblities (actually a little bit less than 6.2 x 1023).
Definitely not bruteforceable.
update, it seems to work fine on the other box, which is odd as that one is quite a bit older than the one it is flaky on, and inconvenient for other reasons, does this happen a lot?
Also, checked through the seed checking and seed recovery process...even though the order is randomized, doesn't reducing the attackable word space to 24 pretty seriously weaken the key? I mean, I just entered the words in a browser ffs...
Also, checked through the seed checking and seed recovery process...even though the order is randomized, doesn't reducing the attackable word space to 24 pretty seriously weaken the key? I mean, I just entered the words in a browser ffs...
The 24 words that represent your backup may seem like something simple, but they are part of a very complicated system and the chance that someone cracking your seed is almost zero. To understand what this is all about, read the following :
The device generates a sequence of 256 random bits using the true random number generator (TRNG) built into the device’s Secure Element.
The first 8 bits of the SHA-256 hash of the initial 256 bits is appended to the end, giving us 264 bits.
All 264 bits are split into 24 groups of 11 bits.
Each group of 11 bits is interpreted as a number in the range 0 - 2047, which serves as an index to the BIP 39 wordlist, giving us 24 words.
The result of this process is that your device will generate a single mnemonic seed out of 2256 possible mnemonic seeds (That’s one of 115 792 089 237 316 195 423 570 985 008 687 907 853 269 984 665 640 564 039 457 584 007 913 129 639 936 possible mnemonic seeds). Note that while the first 23 words are completely random, the final word was derived from 3 random bits and 8 calculated bits from the SHA-256 hash. This means that the final word can act like a checksum - if you input an incorrect seed into the device while recovering it, it is possible for the device to detect that the inputted seed is invalid. Can someone guess my seed? There are 2256 different possible 24-word mnemonic seeds. For comparison, the number of atoms on Earth is estimated to be around 2166. Just let that sink in for a second. The chance of someone else being able to guess your seed is astronomically small, to say the least.
The first 8 bits of the SHA-256 hash of the initial 256 bits is appended to the end, giving us 264 bits.
All 264 bits are split into 24 groups of 11 bits.
Each group of 11 bits is interpreted as a number in the range 0 - 2047, which serves as an index to the BIP 39 wordlist, giving us 24 words.
The result of this process is that your device will generate a single mnemonic seed out of 2256 possible mnemonic seeds (That’s one of 115 792 089 237 316 195 423 570 985 008 687 907 853 269 984 665 640 564 039 457 584 007 913 129 639 936 possible mnemonic seeds). Note that while the first 23 words are completely random, the final word was derived from 3 random bits and 8 calculated bits from the SHA-256 hash. This means that the final word can act like a checksum - if you input an incorrect seed into the device while recovering it, it is possible for the device to detect that the inputted seed is invalid. Can someone guess my seed? There are 2256 different possible 24-word mnemonic seeds. For comparison, the number of atoms on Earth is estimated to be around 2166. Just let that sink in for a second. The chance of someone else being able to guess your seed is astronomically small, to say the least.
Why did you enter the seed via a browser? Seed is displayed on the HW screen, you usually write it down on paper - and you compromise it if you enter it via a computer browser.
update, it seems to work fine on the other box, which is odd as that one is quite a bit older than the one it is flaky on, and inconvenient for other reasons, does this happen a lot?
Also, checked through the seed checking and seed recovery process...even though the order is randomized, doesn't reducing the attackable word space to 24 pretty seriously weaken the key? I mean, I just entered the words in a browser ffs...
Also, checked through the seed checking and seed recovery process...even though the order is randomized, doesn't reducing the attackable word space to 24 pretty seriously weaken the key? I mean, I just entered the words in a browser ffs...
yeah, tried different cable, same shit
some network error, problem retrieving resource in the log
fml
trying on another box
some network error, problem retrieving resource in the log
fml
trying on another box
now it seems to be hung up on a firmware update...
Have you tried using a different USB cable? My Trezor T failed to update on multiple devices until I used a different cable. In the worst case scenario, your device might be faulty and you will need to have it replaced.
thanks, did that, then it hung up on the 19th word
now it seems to be hung up on a firmware update...
now it seems to be hung up on a firmware update...
brand new trezor 1, going through the process, start to copy down the paper seed backup, it shows me the first word, write it down click the next/right button on the trezor, it shows me the second word, write it down click the button...nothing, click click click, hold button down...nothing, cant move to 3rd word
Try reinstalling the firmware or using a different device for the backup process. If it doesn't work on a different PC then enter the bootloader mode by holding both buttons while connecting your device and go to the Trezor Wallet website. You should be able to reinstall the firmware there after selecting "My Trezor is empty".
brand new trezor 1, going through the process, start to copy down the paper seed backup, it shows me the first word, write it down click the next/right button on the trezor, it shows me the second word, write it down click the button...nothing, click click click, hold button down...nothing, cant move to 3rd word
does not exactly instill confidence
does not exactly instill confidence
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