Troll free thread about the facts of HashFast's bankruptcy

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: cedivad on August 08, 2014, 02:48:15 AM

Quote from: Entropy-uc on August 02, 2014, 12:40:00 PM

If the debtors do not cooperate the judge has committed to hearing our motion to have new management put in place August 20th. Hopefully the debtors will be rational and we can get positive action taken before that date.

Is any progress being made?

It's funny how cedavid spend months bragging about how he and his lawyer were totally committed to suing HashFast, because he's now fired his lawyer and is merely another spectator!

What happened to his braggadocio?

Quote from: cedivad on December 23, 2013, 10:23:26 AM

we will easily win our case. I should hear back from the lawyer today...

Quote from: cedivad on November 28, 2013, 11:56:20 AM

Quote from: dopamine on November 28, 2013, 11:47:12 AM

Someone with deep pockets needs make a example out of this company.

We need to do that ourselves. What's the problem in sharing some money for a lawyer? I'm ready to put 10k$ in myself (i'm sorry to keep repeating that).

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: schwab on August 06, 2014, 12:06:51 PM

Icebreaker just changes topic or point of conversation when starting to get cornered. It's not worth trying to display any facts here, because of this shill of a man. The talking points are already written out. This is just a spin and control thread.

It's like watching mainstream news. The same lines are spat out to a different ~~host~~ poster, with no effort to answer questions at hand. Some one questions it? Personal attack.

Lawyer up, it's the American Way.

I changed the topic of conversation to a completely relevant one, two days BEFORE someone else started the same discussion (I know it's hard for you, but do try and keep up):

Quote from: bkminer on August 06, 2014, 10:44:14 PM

MOTION FOR SUBSTANTIVE CONSOLIDATION

In this case I'm guessing this is a good thing because it will add the IP from the east cost component to the chips of the west as assets. Or am I totally wrong here?

Quote from: Minor Miner on August 04, 2014, 02:52:39 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 04, 2014, 02:04:15 PM

Quote from: kikaha on August 04, 2014, 12:03:00 PM

From https://icedrillasic.appspot.com/ IceDrill is DigiMex, so they are an early Batch 1 customer. Agree that don't understand what is their motivation to help the creditors.

I got a Notice of Substantive Consolidation today. That means combining the HF Delaware LLC with the HF California LLC for liquidation purposes.
So the IP will be up for grabs. It may fetch a good sum, because the GN1.5 AND GN2 chips should be even better than the first.
But the rights to the GN1 are the real prize. Imagine being able to fabricate as many 750+ GH chips as you can afford! Cool

IceDrill just happens to have a fat stack of coins which have been sitting around, waiting patiently for such a Golden opportunity... Wink

I thought they only had 700BTC? That will not buy the IP if it is put up for auction.

schwab

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Quote

Icebreaker's Troll ~~free~~ thread about the facts of HashFast's bankruptcy

Icebreaker just changes topic or point of conversation when starting to get cornered. It's not worth trying to display any facts here, because of this shill of a man. The talking points are already written out. This is just a spin and control thread.

It's like watching mainstream news. The same lines are spat out to a different ~~host~~ poster, with no effort to answer questions at hand. Some one questions it? Personal attack.

Lawyer up, it's the American Way.

PewDiePie

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Can I ask why there are 3 threads about the same thing made by 2 different people? (1 is now closed but still there)

maybe someone out there need free space to but they want to makes their own lol
better here all llooks pro .

scr3u.ucr3trs

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 04, 2014, 02:04:15 PM

Quote from: kikaha on August 04, 2014, 12:03:00 PM

From https://icedrillasic.appspot.com/ IceDrill is DigiMex, so they are an early Batch 1 customer. Agree that don't understand what is their motivation to help the creditors.

I got a Notice of Substantive Consolidation today. That means combining the HF Delaware LLC with the HF California LLC for liquidation purposes.

So the IP will be up for grabs. It may fetch a good sum, because the GN1.5 AND GN2 chips should be even better than the first.

But the rights to the GN1 are the real prize. Imagine being able to fabricate as many 750+ GH chips as you can afford! Cool

IceDrill just happens to have a fat stack of coins which have been sitting around, waiting patiently for such a Golden opportunity... Wink

Where is all the value in IP that the company, according to the testimonies, doesn't own? Wouldn't there be a lot of interest in buying the company if the IP was so valuable? Hasn't that been tried already?

kikaha

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This is actually worse than the dotcom days, since the longer this takes to settle, the less the chips are worth. Both chips and IP are devaluing daily.

Quote from: cloverme on August 04, 2014, 06:43:39 PM

I would caution anyone about getting their hopes up that's looking forward or counting on getting and substantial return from a bankruptcy filing. When the creditors or representatives of the banks are at the proceeding, they take the majority. And before them is anything that was secured debt. As a customer (no matter how much you paid), you usually have to wait until everything is liquidated (I'm talking like the pen holders on the desks), which is then divided to everyone else. Chances are high that you will get pennies on the dollar unless you are near the top of the list of creditors on the bankruptcy statement.

I got stiffed back in the dot com days when all sorts of stuff went belly up and I was owed tens of thousands. So, I would just caution on making any plans, your best bet is getting a lawyer and go to the proceeding.

cloverme

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SpacePirate.io

I would caution anyone about getting their hopes up that's looking forward or counting on getting and substantial return from a bankruptcy filing. When the creditors or representatives of the banks are at the proceeding, they take the majority. And before them is anything that was secured debt. As a customer (no matter how much you paid), you usually have to wait until everything is liquidated (I'm talking like the pen holders on the desks), which is then divided to everyone else. Chances are high that you will get pennies on the dollar unless you are near the top of the list of creditors on the bankruptcy statement.

I got stiffed back in the dot com days when all sorts of stuff went belly up and I was owed tens of thousands. So, I would just caution on making any plans, your best bet is getting a lawyer and go to the proceeding.

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: dropt on August 04, 2014, 06:05:52 PM

As a shareholder of ID I DO NOT authorize blah blah blah

Nobody cares what you do or do not authorize. Cheesy

ID has a fiduciary responsibility to manage our assets as is best for the entirety of the enterprise and its backers, and that is what they're doing.

Your kvetching and tantrum-throwing are completely irrelevant. Wink

dropt

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 04, 2014, 05:11:53 PM

700BTC may be sufficient collateral for a big enough loan, or to split costs by entering into a partnership.

They're not ID coins you idiot. They're shareholder coins. They should have been paid out, but since Will and Ludvig appear to be operating along the lines of securities fraud, they have not been.

dropt

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Quote from: Minor Miner on August 04, 2014, 02:52:39 PM

I thought they only had 700BTC? That will not buy the IP if it is put up for auction.

And the bulk of those coins belong to ID's shareholders. They're the summation of dividends that the operators have deflected paying out since the mine started.

As a shareholder of ID I DO NOT authorize ID and/or its operators to use my portion of said coins to go towards franchising and/or purchasing HF IP.

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: Minor Miner on August 04, 2014, 02:52:39 PM

I thought they only had 700BTC? That will not buy the IP if it is put up for auction.

No, 700BTC probably won't. But that depends on the price of BTC when/if an auction happens, the state of the competition/industry, etc.

700BTC may be sufficient collateral for a big enough loan, or to share costs by entering into a partnership.

Sorry I didn't previously recall meeting you. I had a look around the old Mind Palace and there you were, next to the tasty Manhattan I also enjoyed having during our introduction. Was it Tom or Tim? Embarrassed

Minor Miner

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 04, 2014, 02:04:15 PM

Quote from: kikaha on August 04, 2014, 12:03:00 PM

From https://icedrillasic.appspot.com/ IceDrill is DigiMex, so they are an early Batch 1 customer. Agree that don't understand what is their motivation to help the creditors.

I got a Notice of Substantive Consolidation today. That means combining the HF Delaware LLC with the HF California LLC for liquidation purposes.
So the IP will be up for grabs. It may fetch a good sum, because the GN1.5 AND GN2 chips should be even better than the first.
But the rights to the GN1 are the real prize. Imagine being able to fabricate as many 750+ GH chips as you can afford! Cool

IceDrill just happens to have a fat stack of coins which have been sitting around, waiting patiently for such a Golden opportunity... Wink

I thought they only had 700BTC? That will not buy the IP if it is put up for auction.

iCEBREAKER

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Activity: 2156

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: kikaha on August 04, 2014, 12:03:00 PM

From https://icedrillasic.appspot.com/ IceDrill is DigiMex, so they are an early Batch 1 customer. Agree that don't understand what is their motivation to help the creditors.

I got a Notice of Substantive Consolidation today. That means combining the HF Delaware LLC with the HF California LLC for liquidation purposes.

So the IP will be up for grabs. It may fetch a good sum, because the GN1.5 AND GN2 chips should be even better than the first.

But the rights to the GN1 are the real prize. Imagine being able to fabricate as many 750+ GH chips as you can afford! Cool

IceDrill just happens to have a fat stack of coins which have been sitting around, waiting patiently for such a Golden opportunity... Wink

kikaha

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From https://icedrillasic.appspot.com/ IceDrill is DigiMex, so they are an early Batch 1 customer. Agree that don't understand what is their motivation to help the creditors.

Quote from: scr3u.ucr3trs on August 04, 2014, 01:31:02 AM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 03, 2014, 02:44:50 PM

Quote from: kikaha on August 03, 2014, 02:11:02 PM

Do you have insight into this new creditor proposal? Can things get resolved quickly so we can all get some or all of our money back and move on? Before August 20th?

Sorry, I don't have any such insight. MinorMiner probably does, but he'd rather dox and stalk me than let the us know what brilliant move Koi is planning next. Roll Eyes

Their original scorched-earth plan (Chapter 7) went nowhere, and now they are struggling to deal with the other, more reasonable, creditors.

Koi and Gallo deserve each other, from what I've read.

With luck, LiquidBits and IceDrill may form an alliance to sell the IP, fund board assembly, and host miners, to the benefit of all creditors.

The creditors committee has to come up with a plan since the LB plan wasn't approved by them, so it won't include LB at all as they've said publicly they don't trust them or there ability to run a mine. But they talk about the Eddie-Guido franchise plan which has to be just as un-trustable as the LB one. Who is IceDrill and why would they do anything for the creditors?

scr3u.ucr3trs

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 03, 2014, 02:44:50 PM

Quote from: kikaha on August 03, 2014, 02:11:02 PM

Do you have insight into this new creditor proposal? Can things get resolved quickly so we can all get some or all of our money back and move on? Before August 20th?

Sorry, I don't have any such insight. MinorMiner probably does, but he'd rather dox and stalk me than let the us know what brilliant move Koi is planning next. Roll Eyes

Their original scorched-earth plan (Chapter 7) went nowhere, and now they are struggling to deal with the other, more reasonable, creditors.

Koi and Gallo deserve each other, from what I've read.

With luck, LiquidBits and IceDrill may form an alliance to sell the IP, fund board assembly, and host miners, to the benefit of all creditors.

The creditors committee has to come up with a plan since the LB plan wasn't approved by them, so it won't include LB at all as they've said publicly they don't trust them or there ability to run a mine. But they talk about the Eddie-Guido franchise plan which has to be just as un-trustable as the LB one. Who is IceDrill and why would they do anything for the creditors?

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: kikaha on August 03, 2014, 02:11:02 PM

Do you have insight into this new creditor proposal? Can things get resolved quickly so we can all get some or all of our money back and move on? Before August 20th?

Sorry, I don't have any such insight. MinorMiner probably does, but he'd rather dox and stalk me than let the us know what brilliant move Koi is planning next. Roll Eyes

Their original scorched-earth plan (Chapter 7) went nowhere, and now they are struggling to deal with the other, more reasonable, creditors.

Koi and Gallo deserve each other, from what I've read.

With luck, LiquidBits and IceDrill may form an alliance to sell the IP, fund board assembly, and host miners, to the benefit of all creditors.

Micky25

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 03, 2014, 01:32:47 PM

Quote from: Micky25 on August 03, 2014, 01:24:57 PM

hmm, this didn't sound so risky to me at that time.

Well then, I hoped you've learned to do you own due diligence at some point since Oct 2013. It's an invaluable lesson we all should have.

Otherwise you'll be stuck being one of those ridiculous people xstr8guy was so right to mock:

Quote from: xstr8guy on November 13, 2013, 04:14:42 PM

You invested in a very risky startup in an extremely volatile market. And you didn't think there weren't going to be any bumps in the road along the way?

Or did you just think that these "money machines" were just going to make you rich without any effort or stress on your part?

so, in your world "some bumps in the road" equals a nearly complete failure? You do due dilingence every time you order something from Amazon? What more due diligence could we have done at that time, than to believe the promises that have been stated by this company over and over and over again? I only lost money to HashFast, while all my other ASIC investments ROIed very nice, so don't tell me I didn't know what I do.

The problem is HashFasts incompetence, not dumb customers.

kikaha

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Do you have insight into this new creditor proposal? Can things get resolved quickly so we can all get some or all of our money back and move on? Before August 20th?

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: Micky25 on August 03, 2014, 01:24:57 PM

hmm, this didn't sound so risky to me at that time.

Well then, I hoped you've learned to do you own due diligence at some point since Oct 2013. It's an invaluable lesson we all should have.

Otherwise you'll be stuck being one of those ridiculous people xstr8guy was so right to mock:

Quote from: xstr8guy on November 13, 2013, 04:14:42 PM

You invested in a very risky startup in an extremely volatile market. And you didn't think there weren't going to be any bumps in the road along the way?

Or did you just think that these "money machines" were just going to make you rich without any effort or stress on your part?

Micky25

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hmm, this didn't sound so risky to me at that time.

Quote from: HashFast_CL on October 12, 2013, 01:34:07 AM

Thank you for you interest in HashFast!

Here are some facts that distinguish HashFast from the competition:

1. HashFast taped out over a month ago. The other guys missed their "first week of October" deadline, and may not have even paid the NRE for their chip yet.

2. HashFast's physical design partner, Uniquify, has dozens of 28 nm designs under its belt. The other guy's? Not so much.

3. HashFast's physical design partner, Uniquify, sent out a press release annoucing their partnership with us. The other guy's? Not so much.

[ Source: http://www.uniquify.com/uniquify-hashfast-ink-agreement-to-produce-asics-to-increase-hashing-speed-for-bitcoin-miners/ ]

4. HashFast's co-founders, Simon and Eduardo, have run a previous high-tech start-up successfully. The other guy? Not so much.

5. HashFast's foundry of choice, TSMC, is the largest and most advanced 28 nm fabrication facility in the world. The other guys' fab? Not so much.

6. HashFast has ensured its customers have an excellent chance of seeing a positive ROI by already placing orders for wafers of MPP chips. TOG? NSM.

7. HashFast customers will receive their products in Oct/Nov/Dec, before difficulty has been driven up by other upcoming ASICs. TOG? NSM.

If you would like to know more about exactly what separates HashFast from the competition please ask here, in our other threads, or via private message.

Best,

-HF_CL

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: Syke on August 03, 2014, 11:16:02 AM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 03, 2014, 10:57:03 AM

Pre-ordering a non-existing product with supremely ambitious specs from a new start-up isn't like ordering a toaster off Amazon.

Doesn't matter. Customers ordered a product that they never received. HF fucked up. Don't try to blame it on customers, lawyers, trolls or anyone else.

The high degree of risk of an ASIC vs a toaster obviously matters a great deal. You're just too deep in denial to admit it.

If there was any evidence HF was a scam all along, the judge would never has allowed them to continue in their normal course of business under Chapter 11.

Under scrutiny in an actual court of law, the tired old scam accusation fell flat on it face and went nowhere.

Risky high tech start-ups fail all the time. We adults understand that. The judge understands that. Only you bitter gamblers do not.

Making failure a crime or otherwise punishable would destroy the economies' ability to innovate. That's why LLCs exist.

Syke

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 03, 2014, 10:57:03 AM

Pre-ordering a non-existing product with supremely ambitious specs from a new start-up isn't like ordering a toaster off Amazon.

Doesn't matter. Customers ordered a product that they never received. HF fucked up. Don't try to blame it on customers, lawyers, trolls or anyone else.

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: Syke on August 02, 2014, 11:47:57 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 04:03:18 PM

It's "hard to prove" HF was "lying from the start" because they are/were not a scam. High-tech start-ups (much like Bitcoin) are EXTREMELY risky; that's a fact of life you should deal with instead of seeking cop-outs to justify your own complacent sense of entitlement.

Yeah, you tell them! How dare they feel entitled to the product they paid for! If it wasn't for these bad customers and these bad lawyers, HF would have shipped everything in Oct when they promised. Bad bad customers!

Pre-ordering a non-existing product with supremely ambitious specs from a new start-up isn't like ordering a toaster off Amazon.

It doesn't make you a bad customer, unless you start expecting your ASIC to be no more difficult to produce/deliver than the toaster.

Freaking out and sputtering about how it was a scam all along only proves either 1) you fall for obvious scams, or 2) you don't know the diff between a scam and a failed venture.

This point has been made many times before, by several different people, but it does little to stop those determined to be the victim of an expansive conspiracy:

Quote from: xstr8guy on November 13, 2013, 04:14:42 PM

Are you all really bitching about this?!

You invested in a very risky startup in an extremely volatile market. And you didn't think there weren't going to be any bumps in the road along the way?

Or did you just think that these "money machines" were just going to make you rich without any effort or stress on your part?

This is absolutely absurd! And someone is even calling the guy a douche for wearing a bluetooth headset? Would you rather he didn't answer the phone?

Syke

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 04:03:18 PM

It's "hard to prove" HF was "lying from the start" because they are/were not a scam. High-tech start-ups (much like Bitcoin) are EXTREMELY risky; that's a fact of life you should deal with instead of seeking cop-outs to justify your own complacent sense of entitlement.

Yeah, you tell them! How dare they feel entitled to the product they paid for! If it wasn't for these bad customers and these bad lawyers, HF would have shipped everything in Oct when they promised. Bad bad customers!

RoadStress

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 09:34:29 PM

Quote from: RoadStress on August 02, 2014, 09:29:13 PM

Nobody forced HF to offer full boards for MPP. The customers agreed to receiving chips when they ordered the units so don't blame this on the customers. They should've kept their word and they should've offered bare chips as MPP. It wasn't HF job to secure the mounting of the chips on PCBs.

That's right, upgrading the MPP chips to full boards was a voluntary gesture of good will. It was a popular move at the time.

But dissecting the decision in retrospect is unproductive Monday morning quarterbacking.

You are trying to participate in a debate that happened like 9 months ago.

This is the post-bankruptcy thread, not the pre-one.

Well you are stating in the OP

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 08:10:43 AM

Fact One: HashFast wanted to give us our backorders and MPP in the form of chips, but now cannot thanks to the bankruptcy filing:

That's a damn lie! They could give MPP in form of chips long before the bankruptcy!

Same as full bitcoin refunds! LIE!

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: RoadStress on August 02, 2014, 09:29:13 PM

Nobody forced HF to offer full boards for MPP. The customers agreed to receiving chips when they ordered the units so don't blame this on the customers. They should've kept their word and they should've offered bare chips as MPP. It wasn't HF job to secure the mounting of the chips on PCBs.

That's right, upgrading the MPP chips to full boards was a voluntary gesture of good will. It was a popular move at the time.

But dissecting the decision in retrospect is unproductive Monday morning quarterbacking.

You are trying to participate in a debate that happened like 9 months ago.

This is the post-bankruptcy thread, not the pre-one.

RoadStress

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 09:22:29 PM

Quote from: RoadStress on August 02, 2014, 09:09:19 PM

The facts are clear. HF failed to keep its promise of delivering MPP in form of chips and deceived its customers from Day 1. The October delivery was a big fat lie just like bitcoin refunds.

Your allegations, however serious, are not germane to matters at hand.

HF is bankrupt, and their nefarious misdeeds are water under the bridge.

But many of us a stake (or two) in what happens to their creditors and assets.

You can go easily go back and read the ancient historical posts which led up to HF offering full boards. It was done because raw chips had little value at the time.

I'm not sure what you think harping on that change accomplishes. To quote Hildebeast, 'At this point, what difference does it make?'

Nobody forced HF to offer full boards for MPP. The customers agreed to receiving chips when they ordered the units so don't blame this on the customers. They should've kept their word and they should've offered bare chips as MPP. It wasn't HF job to secure the mounting of the chips on PCBs.

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: RoadStress on August 02, 2014, 09:09:19 PM

The facts are clear. HF failed to keep its promise of delivering MPP in form of chips and deceived its customers from Day 1. The October delivery was a big fat lie just like bitcoin refunds.

Your allegations, however serious, are not germane to matters at hand.

HF is bankrupt, and their nefarious misdeeds are water under the bridge.

But many of us a stake (or two) in what happens to their creditors and assets.

You can go easily go back and read the ancient historical posts which led up to HF offering full boards. It was done because raw chips had little value at the time.

I'm not sure what you think harping on that change accomplishes. To quote Hildebeast, 'At this point, what difference does it make?'

RoadStress

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 09:02:51 PM

Don't you have anything on-topic to contribute?

What's the purpose? The facts are clear. HF failed to keep its promise of delivering MPP in form of chips and deceived its customers from Day 1. The October delivery was a big fat lie just like bitcoin refunds.

Minor Miner

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 09:02:51 PM

Quote from: Minor Miner on August 02, 2014, 08:53:22 PM

You have not apologized to me yet and that is rude. It is also likely a mistake you should not have made.

ROFL. Your bluster is priceless. Thanks for the chuckles. Cheesy

Don't you have anything on-topic to contribute?

I am glad you are amused. Laughing might make you a nicer person. Try to smile everyday and have a chuckle. I notice you edit out all the embarrassing truth in my posts.
I think my contribution that you have no claim is valuable for everyone to know. You seem to keep deleting that.
C'mon Ralph, it is not that crowded in here, leave my posts alone.

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: Minor Miner on August 02, 2014, 08:53:22 PM

You have not apologized to me yet and that is rude. It is also likely a mistake you should not have made.

ROFL. Your bluster is priceless. Thanks for the chuckles. Cheesy

Don't you have anything on-topic to contribute?

Minor Miner

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 08:08:49 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Then you said on Icedrill that you did not convert your shares for units.

Wut? Where did I say that? Huh

EDIT: Minor Miner is here to troll, not have a productive conversation. I guess he missed the "troll free" descriptor at the top of the thread. Roll Eyes

MM, if you're just going to troll, please leave this thread.

Keep it up Ralph, try and really piss me off and see where it gets you and your little pump and dump scheme on alts. See how fun that can become for you.
Facts are:
1. You are not a creditor in the HF estate. You have no claim, you actually may be on the other side of the balance sheet.
2. While an employee of HF, you spread FUD about other competitors.
3. You have a lot of anger, likely because of your own mistakes, and like to bully other people to make yourself feel better.
4. You have not apologized to me yet and that is rude. It is also likely a mistake you should not have made.

EDIT: The more I find out about you, the more I feel sorry for you. Surely those weren't all bad decisions on your part, you are TOO smart for that. We all know how smart you are because you tell us. The world must have been out to get you. I am really starting to understand your anger though.
The only words of encouragement I can give you is to keep your head down, work hard and try to be nice to people you meet. You will be rewarded for that. Try that strategy for a while. You have lots of time to turn things around.

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Then you said on Icedrill that you did not convert your shares for units.

Wut? Where did I say that? Huh

EDIT: Minor Miner is here to troll, not have a productive conversation. I guess he missed the "troll free" descriptor at the top of the thread. Roll Eyes

MM, if you're just going to troll, please leave this thread.

RoadStress

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 05:49:55 PM

Quote from: RoadStress on August 02, 2014, 05:11:33 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 04:49:35 PM

People *didn't* accept the original chips-only MPP. WTF were we supposed to do with raw chips? Build a reflow oven in the garage?

I would like to ignore what people accept or not. Please tell me when people bought HF miners what were the terms of the MPP? Chips or boards?

The original terms of the MPP was for chips. Due to popular demand and lack of 3rd party integration capacity, it was changed to assembled boards.

If HF promised MPP in form of chips then it should deliver it like that. It's not HF responsibility to put those chips on boards. Their only responsibility would be to provide the PCB scheme and BOM along with those chips. Customers agreed to that when they ordered HF miners. Also the lack of 3rd party integration is part of HF failure because I am sure that marto74 and MrTeal were never contacted by HF for 3rd party integration for the chips even if they were doing it with other chips.

So in conclusion you/HF blaming the bankruptcy has nothing to do with the fact that HF was unable to deliver their original MPP. They could've just delivered chips and forget about it. HF managed to bring the bankruptcy because of their own incompetence and bad decisions.

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Quote from: RoadStress on August 02, 2014, 05:11:33 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 04:49:35 PM

People *didn't* accept the original chips-only MPP. WTF were we supposed to do with raw chips? Build a reflow oven in the garage?

I would like to ignore what people accept or not. Please tell me when people bought HF miners what were the terms of the MPP? Chips or boards?

The original terms of the MPP was for chips. Due to popular demand and lack of 3rd party integration capacity, it was changed to assembled boards.

RoadStress

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 04:49:35 PM

People *didn't* accept the original chips-only MPP. WTF were we supposed to do with raw chips? Build a reflow oven in the garage?

I would like to ignore what people accept or not. Please tell me when people bought HF miners what were the terms of the MPP? Chips or boards?

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: RoadStress on August 02, 2014, 04:14:08 PM

If MPP was originally supposed to be only chips and people accepted that, not boards then why not give them the damn chips and let them figure what to do. They were fine with it at the moment of the order and it's their responsibility to figure out what to do with the chips. Of course it was HF's responsibility to provide at least a working board scheme for all customers that received MPP in form of chips in order to go to the third party developers.

What exactly was the hold-up of not providing customers with the MPP in form of chips as HF originally promised? Only their desire to provide MPP in form of working boards or it was anything else?

People *didn't* accept the original chips-only MPP. WTF were we supposed to do with raw chips? Build a reflow oven in the garage?

That's why HF voluntarily took on the huge liability of committing to provide them already assembled onto boards (back when they were flush with cash and the future looked rosy). HF didn't have to do that, it was just a gesture of a goodwill, which was a popular move at the time.

Only when Peppermining, BlackMiner, and VMC began to create 3rd party board assembly options for the Golden Nonce chip did raw chip become a desirable commodity.

At the same time, HF ran out of money/credit to put the chips on boards.

Raw chips would have been a great option. I'd love to trade Peppermining GN chips for finished boards.

Too bad the bankruptcy put a stop to all that, and now the chips are sitting in Mylar while their value melts away. Undecided

Oh well, at least it's some consolidation that the lawyers will get what scraps remain. Grin

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 04:03:18 PM

You present a false dichotomy. HF was doing both, simultaneously shipping dev kits to Peppermining, etc *and* also seeking investors. Unfortunately for us, their efforts to turn the company around were prematurely short-circuited by an ill-conceived bankruptcy filing.

You can't really compare HF to ActM. HF has Simon and his team's world class 28nm 400GH ASIC plus the skills and experience to bring it to market. ActM had...INTELLiHASH.

It's "hard to prove" HF was "lying from the start" because they are/were not a scam. High-tech start-ups (much like Bitcoin) are EXTREMELY risky; that's a fact of life you should deal with instead of seeking cop-outs to justify your own complacent sense of entitlement.

If MPP was originally supposed to be only chips and people accepted that, not boards then why not give them the damn chips and let them figure what to do. They were fine with it at the moment of the order and it's their responsibility to figure out what to do with the chips. Of course it was HF's responsibility to provide at least a working board scheme for all customers that received MPP in form of chips in order to go to the third party developers.

What exactly was the hold-up of not providing customers with the MPP in form of chips as HF originally promised? Only their desire to provide MPP in form of working boards or it was anything else?

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: RoadStress on August 02, 2014, 03:02:39 PM

Wait a minute. So instead of helping third party manufacturers to assemble those chips HF was looking for investors for a company that already was delayed a couple of months? Best business decision ever! For me it sounds much easier to offer to third parties whatever PCB they had and work with them to improve it, instead of seeking investors.

And please don't blame the bankruptcy for the fail. You should blame HF staff for the fail. This is looking like ActM all over again where the biggest shills were complaining that ken was on the right track and the MSD investigation bought the company down. HF was damn late and they promised things which were never true like full bitcoin refunds. They deserve to go down no matter what.

I still don't understand why is it so hard to prove that they were lying from the start. Just ask for some damn receipts for the chips or look in the contracts and the scam will be revealed!

You present a false dichotomy. HF was doing both, simultaneously shipping dev kits to Peppermining, etc *and* also seeking investors. Unfortunately for us, their efforts to turn the company around were prematurely short-circuited by an ill-conceived bankruptcy filing.

You can't really compare HF to ActM. HF has Simon and his team's world class 28nm 400GH ASIC plus the skills and experience to bring it to market. ActM had...INTELLiHASH.

It's "hard to prove" HF was "lying from the start" because they are/were not a scam. High-tech start-ups (much like Bitcoin) are EXTREMELY risky; that's a fact of life you should deal with instead of seeking cop-outs to justify your own complacent sense of entitlement.

RoadStress

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 11:47:10 AM

HF wasn't just sitting around passively during those three months.

HF was actively pursuing investors and came close to being able to recapitalize, which would have enabled backorders and MPP boards to be produced and shipped.

Before Peppermining and BlackMiner, there was nothing to do with raw chips and nobody wanted them.

Once PM's Habanero came out, raw chips became a desirable commodity.

Settling backorders and MPP with chips came about as the result of the Peppermining carrot and cash crunch stick.

Given those circumstances, it was the right thing to do.

Unfortunately for us (and fortunately for the lawyers) the bankruptcy filings preclude any more such settlements in chips. Undecided

Wait a minute. So instead of helping third party manufacturers to assemble those chips HF was looking for investors for a company that already was delayed a couple of months? Best business decision ever! For me it sounds much easier to offer to third parties whatever PCB they had and work with them to improve it, instead of seeking investors.

And please don't blame the bankruptcy for the fail. You should blame HF staff for the fail. This is looking like ActM all over again where the biggest shills were complaining that ken was on the right track and the MSD investigation bought the company down. HF was damn late and they promised things which were never true like full bitcoin refunds. They deserve to go down no matter what.

I still don't understand why is it so hard to prove that they were lying from the start. Just ask for some damn receipts for the chips or look in the contracts and the scam will be revealed!

Micky25

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 02:26:17 PM

a windfall

= mindfart

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 02:26:17 PM

Quote from: pmorici on August 02, 2014, 02:15:54 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 11:47:10 AM

HF was actively pursuing investors and came close to being able to recapitalize, which would have enabled backorders and MPP boards to be produced and shipped.

In testimony they said they had a term sheet from an investor but the deal fell through during diligence on Hashfast's books. Maybe you would care to elaborate on why you think the investor was no longer interested in investing once they saw the company's records?

Not being privy to the deal, I'd speculate it fell through due to the presence of noisy, litigious customers (many of who insisted on being awarded a windfall because of a massive 900% rise in BTC/USD exchange rates).

They would have known the company was being sued prior to getting a look at the books, that was public information Hashfast's testimony was that the deal fell through after the books were examined which have little to do with lawsuits.

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 02:26:17 PM

Quote from: pmorici on August 02, 2014, 02:15:54 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 11:47:10 AM

HF was actively pursuing investors and came close to being able to recapitalize, which would have enabled backorders and MPP boards to be produced and shipped.

In testimony they said they had a term sheet from an investor but the deal fell through during diligence on Hashfast's books. Maybe you would care to elaborate on why you think the investor was no longer interested in investing once they saw the company's records?

Not being privy to the deal, I'd speculate it fell through due to the presence of noisy, litigious customers (many of who insisted on being awarded a windfall because of a massive 900% rise in BTC/USD exchange rates).

Regardless, HashFast has/had some juicy assets despite massive liabilities. It's entirely plausible they would have found the right backer given more time.

But it's like the current Argentinian debt deal problem. That unlimited and continuously rising liability prevents anyone from stepping in because at a certain point even if you settle with 90% of investomers the remaining 10% would still have claims exceeding the entire companies net worth.

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Quote from: pmorici on August 02, 2014, 02:15:54 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 11:47:10 AM

HF was actively pursuing investors and came close to being able to recapitalize, which would have enabled backorders and MPP boards to be produced and shipped.

In testimony they said they had a term sheet from an investor but the deal fell through during diligence on Hashfast's books. Maybe you would care to elaborate on why you think the investor was no longer interested in investing once they saw the company's records?

Not being privy to the deal, I'd speculate it fell through due to the presence of noisy, litigious customers (many of who insisted on being awarded a windfall because of a massive 900% rise in BTC/USD exchange rates).

Regardless, HashFast has/had some juicy assets despite massive liabilities. It's entirely plausible they would have found the right backer given more time.

pmorici

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 11:47:10 AM

HF was actively pursuing investors and came close to being able to recapitalize, which would have enabled backorders and MPP boards to be produced and shipped.

In testimony they said they had a term sheet from an investor but the deal fell through during diligence on Hashfast's books. Maybe you would care to elaborate on why you think the investor was no longer interested in investing once they saw the company's records?

Micky25

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 12:44:35 PM

Or should we continue exploring the conflicts of interest and possible resolutions?

oh yes please. What do you suggest?

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 06, 2013, 05:35:36 PM

Oh boy, another DeadTerra adventure in Bitcoin investment. Sign me up please.

Gamma turned out well after tons of glorious drama. I got my money back plus some, and have bragging rights for being an (indirect) ASICMINER OG. Cool

Quote from: HashFast on August 06, 2013, 05:41:34 PM

At HashFast, we are excited to be working with Ice Drill and DigiMex. We are particularly pleased that their entry point is low enough for wide and diverse participation.

John Skrodenis
www.hashfast.com

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: Entropy-uc on August 02, 2014, 12:33:04 PM

Thank goodness Icebreaker is here to criticize the bankruptcy and the committee. With that verification, I can be positive we are doing the right thing.

I CAME AS SOON AS I HEARD!!!

Quote from: Entropy-uc on August 02, 2014, 12:33:04 PM

If you were really an insider, you would know that all of the assets would have been stripped from Hashfast if the bankruptcy proceedings hadn't prevented it.

I don't need to be an insider to know that HF was ready to give me my MPP/delay compensation in raw chips, only to have the bankruptcy filing prevent it.

Are we now to hold the committee above criticism? Will being silent result in a better outcome?

Or should we continue exploring the conflicts of interest and possible resolutions?

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: RoadStress on August 02, 2014, 11:09:45 AM

Wasn't the MPP supposed to be shipped in March? If yes then it took 3 months to realize that they won't be able to ship it while withholding chips?

HF wasn't just sitting around passively during those three months.

HF was actively pursuing investors and came close to being able to recapitalize, which would have enabled backorders and MPP boards to be produced and shipped.

Before Peppermining and BlackMiner, there was nothing to do with raw chips and nobody wanted them.

Once PM's Habanero came out, raw chips became a desirable commodity.

Settling backorders and MPP with chips came about as the result of the Peppermining carrot and cash crunch stick.

Given those circumstances, it was the right thing to do.

Unfortunately for us (and fortunately for the lawyers) the bankruptcy filings preclude any more such settlements in chips. Undecided

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RoadStress

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 11:03:26 AM

The original plan for MPP was to provide chips.

Due to popular demand, HF upgraded the chip-only offer to be full working boards (just add cooling and power).

That decision seemed affordable and doable at the time, but as cash and time ran out became an increasingly difficult commitment to keep.

By May it was clear HF needed to go back to the original plan of chips-only, because it was the most feasible option remaining.

Also by May Peppermining and other 3rd parties had started independent board designs and assembly capacity, removing the primary objection to the chips-only idea ("but what can I do with raw chips?")

Wasn't the MPP supposed to be shipped in March? If yes then it took 3 months to realize that they won't be able to ship it while withholding chips?

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: RoadStress on August 02, 2014, 10:37:54 AM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 08:20:58 AM

Quote from: RoadStress on August 02, 2014, 08:15:09 AM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 08:10:43 AM

Fact One: HashFast wanted to give us our backorders and MPP in the form of chips, but now cannot thanks to the bankruptcy filing:

When were they supposed to give backorders and MPP in form of chips?

May or June. I don't know the exact dates, but the chips were available. HF just needed contact all concerned to get totals, and ship the chips.

It doesn't matter now, because they cannot provide chips for backorders/MPP for legal reasons due to conditions imposed by the bankruptcy.

Our only realistic hope was for HF to finish the process of finding investors to recapitalize, but that hope was killed by the Chapter 7 filing.

Sorry folks, we all get to suffer now because of a few people who thought it wise to cut off their noses to spite their faces.

When were customers supposed to get the MPP and why didn't HF gave chips to customers faster than May or June because the chips were available earlier than these months since it was obvious that they missed their MPP deadline.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Can I ask why there are 3 threads about the same thing made by 2 different people? (1 is now closed but still there)

The locked one wasn't self moderated.

Yah, I have no earthly idea why cedavid, in his wisdom, made two duplicate threads. That boy ain't right in the head. Roll Eyes

The original plan for MPP was to provide chips.

Due to popular demand, HF upgraded the chip-only offer to be full working boards (just add cooling and power).

That decision seemed affordable and doable at the time, but as cash and time ran out became an increasingly difficult commitment to keep.

By May it was clear HF needed to go back to the original plan of chips-only, because it was the most feasible option remaining.

Also by May Peppermining and other 3rd parties had started independent board designs and assembly capacity, removing the primary objection to the chips-only idea ("but what can I do with raw chips?")

RoadStress

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 08:20:58 AM

Quote from: RoadStress on August 02, 2014, 08:15:09 AM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 08:10:43 AM

Fact One: HashFast wanted to give us our backorders and MPP in the form of chips, but now cannot thanks to the bankruptcy filing:

When were they supposed to give backorders and MPP in form of chips?

May or June. I don't know the exact dates, but the chips were available. HF just needed contact all concerned to get totals, and ship the chips.

It doesn't matter now, because they cannot provide chips for backorders/MPP for legal reasons due to conditions imposed by the bankruptcy.

Our only realistic hope was for HF to finish the process of finding investors to recapitalize, but that hope was killed by the Chapter 7 filing.

Sorry folks, we all get to suffer now because of a few people who thought it wise to cut off their noses to spite their faces.

When were customers supposed to get the MPP and why didn't HF gave chips to customers faster than May or June because the chips were available earlier than these months since it was obvious that they missed their MPP deadline.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Can I ask why there are 3 threads about the same thing made by 2 different people? (1 is now closed but still there)

The locked one wasn't self moderated.

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: Minor Miner on August 02, 2014, 09:38:38 AM

I may owe you an apology. You now say that you bought units by converting stock that you had purchased in Icedrill into Sierras?

Dude, where have you been? The IceDrill share conversion happened last year as Bitfunder closed. I guess you don't read that thread.

Apology accepted.

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Can I ask why there are 3 threads about the same thing made by 2 different people? (1 is now closed but still there)

A new, post-bankruptcy HashFast thread was discussed as being a good idea. So I made one.

Let's brainstorm ideas/questions for the creditor committee.

How do we get the chips hashing instead of sitting around losing value?

If nobody wants to pay for it, why not put everything on eBay or make an auction thread here? EG:

For Sale:
State-of-the-art ASIC company

+proven industry leading 28nm chip, with next gen 28nm and 16nm designs near completion
+two proven board designs, with next gen designs near completion
+two provisional US patents, possibly more
+reels of chips, wafers ready to cut
+piles of components, ready to turn into boards/systems
+nice website, existing retail and commercial customers
+swanky office in downtown SF, near good coffee

I'll start the bidding at BTC1000.

iCEBREAKER

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Quote from: RoadStress on August 02, 2014, 08:15:09 AM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 08:10:43 AM

Fact One: HashFast wanted to give us our backorders and MPP in the form of chips, but now cannot thanks to the bankruptcy filing:

When were they supposed to give backorders and MPP in form of chips?

May or June. I don't know the exact dates, but the chips were available. HF just needed contact all concerned to get totals, and ship the chips.

It doesn't matter now, because they cannot provide chips for backorders/MPP for legal reasons due to conditions imposed by the bankruptcy.

Our only realistic hope was for HF to finish the process of finding investors to recapitalize, but that hope was killed by the Chapter 7 filing.

Sorry folks, we all get to suffer now because of a few people who thought it wise to cut off their noses to spite their faces.

RoadStress

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Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 02, 2014, 08:10:43 AM

Fact One: HashFast wanted to give us our backorders and MPP in the form of chips, but now cannot thanks to the bankruptcy filing:

When were they supposed to give backorders and MPP in form of chips?

iCEBREAKER

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

This is a thread where we can discuss the facts of HashFast's bankruptcy.

Unlike the main thread, it will be kept free of distracting personal attacks, misdirection by emotional appeal, and baseless speculation.

Fact One: HashFast wanted to give us our backorders and MPP in the form of chips, but now cannot thanks to the bankruptcy filing:

Quote

We have been converting existing system and board orders, even those who have requested a refund or sought legal action, to ASICs orders. We have a large chip inventory that is immediately available for shipping.

http://hashfast.com/hashfast-refocuses/

Topic: Troll free thread about the facts of HashFast's bankruptcy (Read 3802 times)