Topic: True wealth and fake wealth (Read 1167 times)

More than just an idealistic one, there are a lot of people like me who thinks this could happen and do not want to invest into centralized one. You may think "why would they" but as long as humans are involved, anything could happen. From something as simple as "they will steal all our money" type of thing, to "government will freeze their account so they can't pay us" type of thing, there are a million reasons.

I cannot give you an exact reason what will happen because nothing has happened yet, but there are many possibilities of why they may not able to pay us, and this is why I fear them and do not put any money into them. So this isn't just a preference, I do not use decentralized ones neither to be fair because I am against this all together, but at the end of the day we are going to see stablecoins which are centralized are much worse and there is no reason to use them. The best way to move forward would be focusing on what you already used.

I guess it's more like an idealistic choice to prefer decentralized coins. No one seriously think that they would be the ones being affected by centralization and freezing funds, but ideologically decentralization is about same thing as us 2dn amendment. It's a tool for fighting, in case government ever turns against their people. Not just against their criminals.

But in both cases you are up against a country with an army, so unless that army divides too, i can't see that as a winnable fight.

Those centralized stablecoins are said that they can freeze or hold people's fund. But what could be the main reason of doing so? It is not that they're just going to do it randomly without any reason. One of the most typical reasons why they're going to freeze people's fund is if it comes from hacked funds. So, this is a way to maintain the control of the money that has been embezzled by the hackers to stop them from trading it.
Like this scenario: Tether freezes $5.2M in USDT linked to phishing scams

Although we don't like to get into centralized stable coins but the demand speaks for itself and people are still using even having the knowledge that stable coins like Tether can freeze people's asset. Btw, there are some of the stable coins that we can use that are decentralized like DAI. I don't know if there are some others but that's I think the community's choice if it's about the decentralized stable coin.

But in case of a natural disaster, you can lose everything, and if you keep a small part of the money in the bank, in your account, from which you can pay for purchases using a bank card, then this will not be superfluous. I myself used to be against dealing with banks, but in the end, I keep some insignificant amount in the bank, sometimes it is convenient for some small payments for food or services.

Rich people also do not keep a lot of money in the bank, their money works in their investments and their businesses, this can be called real wealth, when your money works and brings income. And fake wealth is when a person has a big house, beautiful cars and many other material values, but all this does not belong to them but is in a mortgage and they can lose it all at any time.

That's not how this works.

Let's start with the fact that you have no control over fiat money. At least not any more than you have over a piece of land.
You think you can't move land when you travel? They will take your money as well, just like they did to Ukrainians fleeing to the EU and as the Chinese did to people who wanted to leave the country.

Fiat money is only a transactional token. It doesn't belong to you any more than your apartment.

People spending most of their money on liabilities makes no sense to me, they are just wasting their money on nothing. Keep investing into things that will go up in the future and make you richer, why get something that will go down in value over time? Makes no sense to me at all, and most people like that ends up losing too much money as well.

I believe there are few simple things that humans need that we need to spend money on, a house, a car if you travel a lot (like go to work and come back is cheaper with a car for example) some clothes, some items for the home, eating, and pretty much things like that, simple basic needs. If you spend money on these as little as possible and save the rest, and put them into something that grows, then you will retire within 20 years, and by 40-45 years old, you will have enough to just retire. Most people fail to see this and try to make more money and spend more money, which has no end at all unfortunately.

We read as childhood..
If knowledge is confined to books without acquiring knowledge, that knowledge is of no use when it is needed.
Just like that
If your wealth is controlled by a bank or some other third party then the last wealth will not be of use to you in your need.

In our country, when there is a sudden flood or any other natural disaster, the only time of need is the money and food collected at home. The money saved in the bank is not useful in times of dire need but requires the permission of various third parties to withdraw that money.

That's the dilemma when it comes to cryptocurrencies. We have no control of what will be the value of our holdings even after few hours of possessing it. Also, when it comes to stablecoins, as this is a centralized type of stablecoin, the owner/s behind it can easily freeze or hold your funds.

It is always best to have some fallback if in case you will venture in cryptocurrencies. In my opinion, it will be more on tangible assets such as real-estate, jewelry, precious metals and other physical assets that you can sell in case of budgetary constraints.

Remember, crypto is very volatile up until now. Relying alone on this market is quite suicidal. Better secure yourself with other financial options.

All this confusion came from the OP. Because when we are talking of wealth all luxuries items and car on not thinking that you will depend on, because if you are wealthy you will not take anything as a liability it should be as a result of need or other things, moreover all this Jewelries and cars that you are classifying as fake wealth might be a great investment on the future. Take an instance you have a Rolex watch that was only produced in 4 pieces and you keep it for 5 years did you think the value will still be the same?

All those that think cars, jewelries in some case are not liabilities but also sources of investment. So those that will be classified as people with fake wealth are people that are not yet wealthy but they will claim that they are, which they will have to suffer more to maintain all those things.

That is why sometimes we wonder why some people who we believed were rich and wealthy suddenly become poor all of a sudden. They wasted lots of their resources accumulating liabilities (which I think are fake wealth). It is true that lots of people do not know the differences between assets and liabilities and I still blame them for making some kinds of financial mistakes when it comes to creating wealth. There are lots of financial advisors who can give them sound financial advice on how to spend their own money and reserve some for real wealth creation. Some people just love to learn the hard way.

So according to you fake wealth is something you don't have control over? And you consider fiat money as fake wealth because you cant control it? Then what about the volatility of the price of crypto currencies? You don't have control over the price or the market. If you hold crypto currencies only, your wealth might be $100 today, but tomorrow it might end up being less than $50. So not a wise choice to be honest. And then you mentioned about stable coins. Just letting you know that all stable coins are centralized and that they can freeze your wallet anytime they like just like fiat banks.

From the wealth that we have, it should be able to produce long-term results, so we have to invest in land for agriculture, it will definitely produce results if it is managed well, and the price also increases relatively every year, depending on the place and location that we will buy.

That is one of the main differences between those that know how to manage their money and those that do not, an asset and a liability may seem the same to those that do not know how to manage their money but they are in fact very different, very often I see people buying a huge house they do not need in order to live there and they call it an investment, and this is a mistake as it is a liability, it would have been better for them to buy a much smaller house, pay it as soon as possible and use all of that extra money to build a business or buy other properties they can rent or sell for a higher price.

After seeing this post title "true wealth and fake wealth", I expected something totally different. What I feel should be classified as fake wealth are those classes of wealth that eventually become some sort of liability to the owners. Some people do not know how to accumulate wealth, once they earn a significant amount of money, they start buying cars, building houses and accumulate other assets that will warrant them to incur maintenance costs and they will ignorantly call all those wealth. Those are actually liabilities to them, "fake wealth". That is why some so called wealthy people end up selling off some of their properties because they can no longer fund its maintenance cost.

True wealths should be those that last for long term. They should be able to generate returns to the owners instead of making the owners spend more to use them. Wealth should make one richer and not poorer.

When you have a land or a house po party it is a pure asset for you because the size of a country is fixed due to which day by day the population will increase but the size of a country can never so as time goes by the value of land and house property will increase.  So in that case if you keep your land or house property on rent then it will be a source of passive income for you and you can live a comfortable life without any worries.  But if you want to keep money in the bank and manage your life without doing any work, then it is a completely wrong decision because the rate of inflation is increasing day by day and the value of money is decreasing day by day.  So now think about which one is true wealth and which is fake wealth

True wealth really is one that you who own it can actually control the way you wish to , a whole lot of times banks have proven to be disappointing and not been able to give prompt delivery  when needed so for me it's better to think outside the box and also be proactive

Having good land to run a business, of course, it will be very profitable, but of course, the business field that we will build is indeed very much needed in the area, because with the existence of private land that we can indeed use as a place of business, of course it will be able to reduce the cost of being able to rent the place of business that we build.

The mistake of choosing a bank to save money, of course, can eliminate the money we have when the bank has problems and is not responsible for the money we deposit in the bank, if you can manage the money you have and also make a profit, of course it is better than saving money in a bank which will benefit the bank more than we save.

True wealth is that which you can hold and you accupy that . In the case of land , you should buy that land that occurs in your residential area and you have an access of doing business by that. You can get fare from that is that is good land and you can use that for your personal purposes and you can store your items in that.   Fake money is that money which is in the bank and bank can be bankrupted and we can lose all our money if we didn't save  our money in trusted bank . Banks are doing the businesses of  different kind abd they are investing their money in the assets and  also currency is fake money but poor people think that it is real money and they are rich due that mindset.

What are you even talking about, that true wealth is something you do what? Where do you get that explanation from and there's nothing like fake wealth as well, I think you need to elaborate this in a very broad manner and why do you think food and all that is true wealth and  necessarily I can't really get this statement of yours.But mind you true wealth can be generated from different angles and perspective
and it differs in alot ways too,tho land, properties could be classified as true wealth but I haven't heard of fake wealth so I can't really put in more idea to that or make any point from it,so anything could be wealth just as it has value, just like Bitcoin holding it could make one generate wealth you know, that's why I think your context in explaining both fake and true wealth matters.

In my opinion, wealth is not assets (real estate, stocks, bonds, cryptocurrencies, etc.). Wealth is an asset management system.

What good are your assets if you are under criminal prosecution? Or if you are in a war zone? Or if you forgot your private key? Or if your company's CEO turned out to be a thief and a fraudster and transferred all your funds to an offshore company abroad?

It is the competent management of your assets that creates wealth. And proper management is based on specialized skills and abilities, while taking into account both regulatory and legal issues, accounting issues and security issues.

At the same time, all the assets listed above - cryptocurrencies, real estate, bank deposits, stocks and bonds - are the basis for creating wealth.

Now everyone should think more openly because physical assets like metals, property and land will also not be easier to use in adverse conditions such as war. Property and land will be more easily destroyed if not properly guarded and their value will also tend to decrease if located in a country that is at war. Likewise, precious metals will be more easily stolen if we cannot store them very well because such assets always require a good vault to store them safely.

Meanwhile, crypto assets such as Bitcoin will still have value even if there is a network disruption in a country due to war conditions, because every Bitcoin owner can still access wallets and global exchanges in other countries using the internet network. So in general, Bitcoin owners can still store it safely even though the price itself can be affected for a while due to these conditions, but this kind of thing will not last long as investors can still live in safer countries to buy and sell their crypto assets into the global exchanges they often use.

Having real estate type of investment would be a lot better and that would be something that we can all get money from and that is the most important thing. If you can get bitcoin that is true as well because we are going to consider that as asset as well as currency, so that is why I think we should be considering this as very important profitable thing to hold and also another important thing is that we are talking about an asset that you actually hold yourself, just put it on your wallet and nobody has control over it, no company no government no bank nothing can meddle with it and that's why it's liked this much.

This is why I think we should be considering this as very profitable asset. Doesn't mean other assets are all bad, of course it's fine but that doesn't mean it's that bad, we can make this work one way or another if we want to, I just prefer bitcoin over other ones. This is why I think it's quite important to have your preferences.

I don't think it is correct to refer to assets such as land, property, and stocks as "fake wealth." Over time, these have been able to hold up and grow in value during tough times. Property appreciates over time, and businesses still function and make stocks possible to invest in on a long-term basis. While cryptocurrencies and tangible assets like gold do provide room for flexibility, they come with their sets of risks-most specially about stability.

USDT and USDC each have certain advantages in self-custody but involve a degree of risk. USDC is viewed as being somewhat more transparent since it has far greater regulatory compliance, while USDT has been under suspicion due to the mystery of its reserves. It is not good to fully place reliance on the stablecoin itself or to predict any major crash in the likes of the United Kingdom pound. Although the pound is in turmoil at this particular point in time, it is nevertheless a very important world currency and would be an oversimplification to predict that it will crash.

China already goes out of its way to cut lines of free communication for its citizens so that scenario is already here and Russia and many other countries banned BTC.  So those negatives I believe were already visited in some shape or form prior.   Future negatives are going to happen without a doubt but ironically I think BTC is part of that picture and still expanding.

My basic reasoning is we have right now the time of peak FIAT as a phenomena, the idea of a currency backed by nothing but politics and promises.  But USA was founded on a solid element in exchange ofcurrency which itself was a copy of Spanish dollar, so how did it end up being the opposite and there is no fixed worth.  In fact the largest central banks promise to always devalue their own currency constantly, to enable liquidity apparently but its destructive for fixed value exchange.

I dont see any easy path, Im not disagreeing there but the amount of change will not be linear.  Im thinking we move into more information based exchange of value less commodity based, so a reversion to gold as some imagine is not especially likely even in a war.  Gold has its place but not in people pockets to buy groceries in future imo.

you know one thing about this place is that you will make a statement according to the level of your understanding and the the level of exposure you have so this two things is determined by the post you make for this place, it is clear that investment cannot be fake when you are achieving from your investment or when you are progressing in your investment but a process whereby the investment you are not achieving anything it can be a fake investment, from my way of understanding what is investment mostly real investment and investment that's not real

One should analyse the relative value of the different potential assets and compare how they will fare under different conditions, particularly in the worst-case scenario of war. If the digital infrastructure and Internet networks are affected, technology-based assets like the crypto might face significant issues. On the other hand, precious metals and physical property are strong investment currencies in a crumplezyear because their value does not hinge on technology and networks. Holding the land or property, as well as metals, can be helpful to have a well-diversified investment portfolio and some degree of protection versus higher risks.

I hate to break it to you but crypto will be the first thing to vanish if the world goes back to war. Crypto has largely been able to prosper because we are so interconnected and it is useful for trading, however if things got serious like Russia/China/Europe/USA getting involved in a tussle, then you start to see internet lines cut and anything net based will suffer. The blockchain relies on the free flow of information, just like our banking system, so it will suffer too. It's also very weird that you do not put land and property into the same bucket as precious metals, because they are physical objects that you can control. Everyone also needs a home and decades of property grow would tend to disagree with your assessment.

See, if one employs himself with false wealth, it is not a good work in the eyes of the world, when it involves hard work, but that money is of no use.  Yes, it is better if you earn less money and run the house, because firstly, it will be your hard work and the world will also favor you.  If you are talking about converting fake money into real money, that is also not a good thing because we should stay away from such a thing that will not happen to us tomorrow. 

It is better that you earn a few bucks by working a little during the day or at night and no one will disagree with you about it and it will not give you a daily headache.  Those who prefer it are mostly unwell because we don't get accused and it will end badly.  And I would not prefer to do something that harms you and others.

OP isn’t doing enough research on these aspects to put today living and society before making projections and conclusions. This in itself can be misleading. Like, OP doesn’t understand that stable coins has some untrue principles. That for every Stablecoin out there, there should be a physical dollar equivalent which is mostly not the case.

I have read very few from OP lately and I can place how he seems to view things based on what is physical or tangible or government backed. I guess OP wouldn’t see much in we having to transmit information electronically as we do today. The manual post office and railway transportation of letters system would make much sense.

Here no one can against this because we all understand importance of having good earning through this method but as mentioned we need property at better place for having good earning because without having this advantage we can't have good income even this can ruin because if your property is not as right place then your money is on losing side, and you are also losing many other benefits of having things well under control.

In my country, we are having nearly 55% to 60% peoples those are not having their own houses and mostly are living on rents with many buildings and other colonies are set by companies for having good solid long run income and commercial based properties are having more income and having business like this is profitable because mostly peoples are trying to have all on rent with they are not interested to spend huge amount for buying.

You are right about this, we can rent it out to other people, so we can earn income without losing assets. But of course this requires a strategic location because it is also difficult if it is in a remote place, especially if it is a dead road or in other words a road that is not a main road and is only a road for people around. In my country there are many factories, so they use their land to build rental houses, clearly it is a very tempting business, there is also a luck factor that they have. Because to own land in a place like that is very difficult, because the previous landowner will definitely know what they will get if they have land in strategic places like that. So even if they are going to sell it, the price must be very expensive.

Your bank balance is an illusion, a digital mirage that evaporates when the system glitches. Governments promise protection, but history shows their safety nets are full of holes. True wealth isn't digits on a screen; it's tangible assets – food, cash, precious metals – things you can control when the world goes sideways

But wealth isn't just stuff; it's community. It's about the people you trust, the networks you've built. When chaos strikes, your survival depends on who stands beside you

True wealth is resilience, innovation, the ability to adapt. Cryptocurrency is a middle finger to the broken system. It's about individual control, not relying on crumbling institutions. But even digital assets are volatile. Diversification is key

The US may lead in stablecoins, but don't underestimate other players. The UK might be slow, but sometimes the laggards innovate in unexpected ways

This financial upheaval isn't a crisis, it's evolution. Embrace it, but stay sharp. The future belongs to those who adapt, not those clinging to outdated notions of wealth

      -     I can somewhat believe this, because the money you entrust to the bank, once they hold it, it will appear that you have given them the right to hold or control your money with them. Then, when you want to pull out, they have a lot of requirements that will be asked of you.

Imagine how easily they accepted the money you worked hard for. Then,  when you want to take out or take back your money, they don't seem to want to give it back to you, even though they took good advantage of the money that wasn't theirs. That's the stupid banking system, as in all countries the banking system is like that..

The distinction by the op makes sense to me overall, although I wouldn't put it in the 'true vs fake' wealth dichotomy. It could instead be your vs someone else's wealth, considering that the point is about who truly owns it. Moreover, I am not sure if I understand why land and property are in fake wealth. Maybe that's because the rules are different in different countries, but in mine, you can actually buy a flat, and it becomes truly yours, and the same goes for land. So it's more like food at home than like stocks to me.
I see from the discussion that the issue is that you can't move your flat or land with you, but I'm not sure that I understand why that is so important.

I think real money is your assets. I my country, farmers are in high tension because in last year they sell  the wheat in 4500Rs but in this year the rate of wheat is 2200. In last year, they stock the wheat and they thought that they will sell that wheat in next year and next year price would be 5500Rs but now they have no money to meet their expenses and they became greedy and they saw the result of that. In my opinion, gold is good money and that is also called real money because it is limited in earth and no body can create it own. Money value goes down day by day but gold value goes up and up in future. So everyone should invest in real assets through which they can get financial freedom.

It's important to consider the cost of tax and maintenance before choosing properties as an asset. It's strange to hear that you need permits to do many things on a piece of land in some countries. This is because, in my country, land is a good investment. After all, there are no land or property taxes, and you are free to build any kind of house you want, except the lands are reserved for a particular design by the government. You can easily convert a farmland to a building and vice versa. Many buildings in my country are not maintained, and the government cares little about that. The government will only sanction the owner if it has started to house criminals or collapse where people were injured or killed.

The high population in urban areas has made properties in high demand, and it is very easy to rent out or sell a property.

However, the property business can be affected negatively by natural disasters or violent conflicts. Many people lost their properties when a town became flooded because of global warming. The flood submerged these houses every year during the rainy season. Properties become worthless because nobody wants to reside in that area. We also had tribal and gang conflicts in areas, which led to the destruction of lives and properties. Many people had to cheaply sell their properties to avoid being attacked or killed.

Fake wealth would be owning the debt but not the asset and its productive capacity to make money.  So you own in fact a liability that you hope someone will repay, the problem is in FIAT units of monetary exchange that value returned might be less then you lent out in the first place so you end up taking risk and being worse off.  This is what is happening with government constantly, the money issued is declining in worth that same system of banking is controlling the rough interest rates given on debt also.

Unless you own productive assets you will never be ahead of curve, always chasing that depreciating cash circle of debt.  Owning commodities can be profitable but since the economy is rarely stable you may invest into something not in demand at the time you require the liquidity to service your own costs.   The only real chance people is to part of something productive and regularly so, something able to grow far faster then the debt burden.  This has given some bias towards technology I think as it has an efficiency over time that helps cost reduction justifying the initial debt.

In my opinion the face of global instability, the concept of “true wealth” tends to increasingly shift traditional assets such as fiat currencies, real estate, investments, etc. to tangible forms of currency self-regulated Fiat deposits in banks are exposed to systemic risks and government policies Its potential is vulnerable, subject to deterioration during economic, political or other events As you have noted, . defense systems are limited and may not be reliable in times of major crisis. True wealth, from your point of view, is something physical: food, gold, silver, and cryptocurrencies in and of themselves. Such property may appear more secure because it gives direct control and is less prone to system failure. As much as land and property are valuable, there are certain boundaries associated with portability and immediate liquidity.

You called hard currencies—the likes of USDT and USDC—new-age fiat currencies that impart stability and sovereignty digitally. According to you, this makes them more secure compared to traditional bank-held fiat. You also remarked on the strong currency equivalent option for currencies such as the British pound, which you felt could cause damage for countries not having a stable currency. This is a view that can be explain, simply because there is one common currency that is accepted in the United States; however, it can also be vindicated that budgets and money are a complex allocation influenced by many factors. One may feel safe with the presence of physical assets or self-contained cryptocurrencies; however, diversity and knowledge of the macroeconomic scenery still matter.

Ultimately, pursuing financial stability requires a balanced approach that considers the value of traditional assets and the potential of emerging technologies such as stablecoins and cryptocurrencies

Renting it out is the most rich thing I can think of. Having buildings, and I do not mean just like a home or apartment or whatever where people can live, I mean like shops, offices, factories and such, that you rent to other people? That seems like a great deal and I know a lot of people who invested in those things to get richer and they did, they are making a good income as well.

Most people are making a mistake by not buying plots of land, it's just a good idea and could become much larger in the future. I know that it is not going to be easy to handle it all, but it could very well be something that could make profit for some people.

If I'm to choose between $1000 dollar and £1000 pounds, I will definitely go for £1000 pounds, simply because it's market value is more higher than the US dollar. Because the fact that people now choose crypto as a store of value for their asset and US having a stable coin such as USDC, that doesn't make British pounds useless, as it will still remains useful and more valuable then the USD, inasmuch as it's not always common for international monetary transactions. One thing you just need to understand is that not all countries need to have their fiat currencies in stable coins.

I will not equate land with gold even though you have compared the two to the same, because the price of land which tends to increase every year never experiences a price correction like gold does every year even if only for a short time. So I think everyone also needs to distinguish between gold and land if they want to choose one of them for future investment, but for now people who have started to think intelligently also need to see Bitcoin as the next option which is also not bad for future investment because we have all seen how Bitcoin grows in each cycle.

The price isnt rising in many cases, its the money becoming steadily less value that causes alot of shift in value.   Land is well known as being one of the most productive long term assets, across generations its been land which has carried a family asset base better then most other considerations.  Also land is protected by law for many centuries where other types of wealth are more often taxed. 

We could argue for gold if you need to transport the wealth which land cannot do but arguably you can rent out land to gain cash or more liquidity.  Gold has no yield to it, its flat in its value across much of time again the price is plain paper losing its value but land can be argued as productively able to give a yield especially when combined with a business.   Arable land generally being the most sort after but even land for grazing is observable useful across a long time hence its fairly genuine wealth.

Apart from the price which tends to rise almost every year, when we own land we can also use it for something profitable, such as opening a business on the land we own. Moreover, if the location is very strategic, we can use it to open a basic food shop, for example, or something else. There are many things we can do, of course we have to be creative in using them to be productive and profitable.
In my current environment, land prices are very expensive, especially in urban areas. Even those in remote places or villages have very high prices. So as time goes by, the price will rise, especially if something is built around it that will invite lots of people there, the price will definitely go up a lot.

Your points are country dependent, here in India agricultural land needs no maintenance, no property taxes on it, and selling the farmed produce does not incur taxes either.

Regarding house, one who owns the agricultural land is free to build house on it along with whatever one wants to do to the house, but note that there is term FSI (Floor Space Index) here which implies how much of total land area can be used for construction, and this FSI differs from state to state, unless you want more construction than permitted to agricultural land owners, only then you have to convert agricultural to residential.

On selling, where I live there is rapid development, property prices have significantly increased in last 5 years, so at least here, if one were to sell and preferably give some discount, it'd get sold pretty fast.

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Above answers are based on my 'afaik' knowledge, if anyone is sound in Indian property affairs, and have something to correct, feel free to do so, I'd be glad.

There is nothing wrong with investing in land because investment is also one of the best investment choices for those of us who want to gain profits in the long term. So you could say this is like gold, land prices never go down, in fact they go up every year. Comparing it with a car certainly doesn't make sense because cars will go down in price, especially since they are expensive to maintain.

It was possible that he had experienced unpleasant things when investing in land, which was why he told everyone that. Land investment is an investment that has great potential in the long term. However, before starting to invest in land, there are several things you need to know so that you don't experience losses, such as location, disputes and so on, where the owner must know the clarity of the land so that our goal of investing in land can run well and reduce risks, by so we can get optimal profits.

That's also what I was thinking, why are there people who think investing in land is bad as the OP said here. Has he had a bad experience with land or property in the past to come to that conclusion? Moreover, he also compared it with a car, which in my opinion is neither comparable nor reasonable.
Indeed, in some cases there are also land disputes and it takes a very long time to resolve it all. As is the case in the case that is happening around me at the moment, but if you dig deeper, the government is indeed the cause so that the land becomes a dispute. But it comes back to ourselves, if we want to buy a plot of land then we really have to know in depth the origin of the land. And actually, not only in this, but in everything we have to know in depth if we want to buy something valuable.

land is not freedom
a. property taxes/ maintenance costs means its an ongoing costs, these days you even get fined by local government for not maintaining property
b. your not free to build anything, you need permits to do things these days, the only thing you dont need permits for is to paint the internal walls. c. externally like building extensions, groundwork, new builds even external paint usually needs permission from state or a HOA
d. if you wanted to change the purpose from agricultural to residential you need permit. or the opposite way round
e. as for selling it, thats not a guarantee. land can lay unsold for months/years or become valueless if the area becomes a ghosttown

Not to mention, real estate can create a passive income source as well as its value will gradually increase over time, which is why real estate is considered the best investment that anyone wants to own. Meanwhile, Cars are just assets that lose value over time, a product that will lose value when used a lot or will become an obsolete product.

I don't know what country he comes from and what his experiences are with real estate. But he can't just because of his bad experiences judge that real estate is even worse than an asset that loses value over time like a car.

I like land because of freedom it provides. You can build shelter over it, grow food on it, if you want to move from one place to another — you can always sell it.


...and yet you suggest stable coins which are centralized and historically there have been cases where wallet funds were freezed.

Yes, it's true you guys do have valid points on the negative effects of stable coins when the company that owns the stable coin fail to have enough liquidity or funds to back-up the pegged currency, and when it comes to which stable coin is the safest, I have been able to discover that USDC is far safer than USDT, since it's backed by the United States Dollar with a transparent regulatory compliance as regards to monetery policies, which is why if you are to still have your funds safe in crypto, USDC is still better if you can't avoid have access to a US Dollar bank account.

What you guys need to understand is that "trolling" is an art form, the idea is to make people talk, and respond to you. So if you say something wrong, then they will come to correct you, that's how you end up with getting some attention.

You could write a topic about something right, you could cure cancer, and people will say "we will see", but you could make a mistake, like say "did you know that 2+2 actually equals 5" and write a silly article, people will go mad and respond to you. This dude is great at it, I appreciate the effort he put in.

Obviously he knows owning land is not fake wealth, obviously he knows money in the bank, or a property is wealth, he is aware of it, to be fair food in your home is wealth too, anyone who couldn't find even one bread for a day would know, I was one of them for a few days in my life, was very poor, I am not anymore and that was just unemployed short period, to be fair I have been average or more all my life, that was just a short time, but anyone who lived that would know food in your home is wealth too, gold or silver is wealth too, but land is wealth too. He is writing that to just piss you off and get you to answer, and he has done a great job.

I do not give merits to newbies for this year I think you are the first newbie I gave merits to.

I LIKE the attempt you made. Making a list of real vs false wealth.

Fake wealth does exist but it varies location to location and place to place.

A tank of oxygen is very valuable on the peak of Mount Everest. I would certainly give my 75 oz of silver bars for it.

But here in New Jersey I would only offer 1 or 2 oz of silver bars for it.

You missed that idea of why wealth alters from fake to real..

I AM not rich but I am not poor..  I could sell my house my silver my crypto mining gear and my cryptocurrency.  And have a nice pile of cash. On my car seat.

So in all cases my wealth above is real not fake. It's mine I owe no one. And my goverment can take it all . Most people in our world can have all their wealth taken by their governement..

BTW Donald Trump just missed losing everything by less than 1 inch. THE BULLET that wounded him was worth how much about 1 dollar. SO when a rich powerful man can lose it all to a 1 dollar bullet Defining wealth by how easy it is to have it taken away is likely not a good method.

Nice effort.

So far, what I know about USDT is that it is a digital currency that has full support from the US dollar, so its liquidity value is higher, but the risks it carries are also very large. Moreover, the price movements of USDT and USDC are very slow and are not suitable for investment because it will be difficult to make a profit.

Each investment location will of course provide a different level of risk depending on the investment system offered. So there is no investment place that is free from risk. Therefore, we must wisely use the money we have by looking for information on the investment place you want to choose. In this way we can make decisions about where we want to invest with the money we have.

I'd say investing in real estate is more risky today than investing in Bitcoin. The chances are that the land you are buying today will turn out to be a fake wealth in the near future because of some poisonous plant was built near it or just because of the lack of infrastructure in the vicinity.

True wealth will make you to stay long in your wealth, by having different businesses around your country because they will start generating profits that will continue to accumulating your wealth in the country. But, fake wealth don't use to last long because if you verify the source of the wealth, you will know that it will not going to last long like those that invested in different businesses, and it will be very hard for such category of business owners to fall down to zero level in wealth because they are not depending on government in the country.

You want to acquire real wealth that will make you popular, I will advise you start investing in estate business and BTC business because there are many opportunity in those businesses that will make you wealthy which is the desire of many investors these days.

So the summary of what you're saying is that real assets are things you can get hold of at any time and you can take them from place to place? That's false. There's nothing like real all fake assets. The definition of an asset is "a thing or quality that has value, especially something that generates a cash flow". So it doesn't matter if you can take it with you in time of an emergency or crisis or not, as long as that thing has value and can bring in profit it's an asset.
Saying Lands and rear estates are not real assets is not true. There's no part of an asset that says they must be useful during the crisis to be called an asset.

And by your logic, fiat in your hand may turn out to be nothing in a time of war because nobody might want money in a time like that. Your money might be useless. Everybody just wants to survive so what would your money do?

These things may differ depending on where we live. It also varies depending on the time spoken. For example, in my country, land prices have increased very much and those who want to sell cannot. While it used to be a very advantageous investment, it is not now. As I said, investment preferences change depending on time and where we live. Maybe in the future this situation will reverse and they will become a good investment tool again.

As an investment choice, the traditional approach finds purchasing land more appropriate. Bitcoin investment has always paid dividends in the long run. Those who can afford to wait long see Bitcoin as an alternative to traditional investments.

Not always true for everyone, I rather have something that nobody can touch, which is why I prefer bitcoin. My grandfather owned a huge land, at a very very good location, had an estate there, and my father grew up there, he wasn't rich but he certainly wasn't poor, richer than I have ever been at least.

What happened? Government took his land, and they can only do it if they build a hospital on it, what did they do? They build a hospital on the quarter of the estate, and rest they sold and made a lot of money and plenty of politicians pocketed the income instead of the public. This is why I rather have a thing that nobody can touch, no bank, no tax officer, no government, I just want to own it, and crypto in my own wallet is like that.

No not everyone. What about the majority of us here in crypto? We don't know much about investing before and even if we discovered it lately because of cryptos, we think that cryptos are still the best investment assets compared to others out there including the land or the real estate. OP already said, one big reason and that is; cryptos are digital, so they are easy to kept even if your invested amounts are so huge. About the land, no. Its price doesn't stay the same, whether you are buying it or selling it, but it can always appreciate.

This is one of the cons as a buyer, not like to cryptos that they are volatile, so late participants can still be able to buy the coin at a reasonable price. Cars on the other hand, do still have their own use cases and vintage cars can still retain their value, especially if we take care of them very well. Car has a maintenance but what about land? They also do have it actually.

What you say is very true, everyone would certainly prefer to own a piece of land if they are thinking about investing in their future and I think the price of land will remain the same in a few years and will increase over a long period of time and that will be very In contrast, the price of a car can change quickly when the newest model comes out.

I agree with you, if we choose to own a car, of course it will have large maintenance costs and there are other costs as you have mentioned, but with the plot of land that we own, we can use the land to manage things that can generate profits such as using it. For agriculture, of course this also produces profits for us.

actually I understand the perspective you are heading to but sometimes in as much as the assets that's moveable is not good at times but sometimes is the best but however it all depends on the particular assets in question because considering when there is a crisis and Banks will no longer be functioning as such making things very difficult for people to survive but those that has moveable assets will be able to utilize it and take care of there needs, however land is also one of the best assets because it appreciates in value as time goes by, as the matter of fact there are some places land is there major assets because there is a higher chance in the next 10 years after purchase, the land will worth higher than what you bought it with.

It's good that you are referring to paper fiat currency as true wealth. Yuval Noah Harari would approve. And I'm serious here, no sarcasm or anything. I adore Harari, and what he meant was people shouldn't lose their trust in money because that's what distinguishes us from animals. Without our trust in money we'll resort to animalistic chaos pretty quickly. As long as we are humans, let's not abandon that trust.

Physical USD is ordinary money which is also often used by many people to buy and exchange it for the goods they want, meaning that in terms of the level of profit there is nothing except the stability of its value in life. Meanwhile, USDT and USDC are tokens or coins that exist in the crypto market to make it easier for their users when they want to buy or exchange them for other coins because both of them still have more pairs in the crypto market. And in terms of keeping it for yourself, I don't think it would be a problem if it was only for a while before everyone exchanged it back to Bitcoin or something else via the market.

Yes and even cash is not a good option to be held long term because even if you have full control of the cash you have in your hands, the government can print more of it and steal from you with the inflation tax, so in that case it is better to minimize as much as possible the assets we hold which can be affected in this way, something that makes me think that once the economy begins to present even more problems, bitcoin will become even more popular as people look for a good asset to hold.

This is the same as people who build their own business, even though the concept is small, it indicates that we ourselves are in control. But talking about wealth is relative and there is always no definite figure regarding wealth because the ratio of wealth will differ from one person to another.

It is not called fake wealth but rather you have assets but do not have wealth in fiat amounts. Fake wealth is more about not having anything but we act like people who have any wealth. Owning land, property, money and shares will put you on the list of rich people, but they are more about assets. If you understand the meaning of these assets, perhaps in the long term land, shares and property will have a good future.

So the fake wealth you are referring to is completely irrelevant in relation to not having money in fiat form. Something that is considered fake because we don't have it is not the narrative you are trying to convey and I think it is wrong. It's up to people how to interpret the meaning you want to convey but in my opinion that is wrong.

True wealth and false wealth can change depending on the situation at hand. In a state of peace, actually owning a business or company, property and real estate is one of the true riches that is always coveted by everyone. Meanwhile, in an unsafe situation or in an ongoing war situation, property and other things that cannot be moved to another place are like fake wealth. but remember when the war is over then we can return to the land we own. As long as the country we live in does not lose the war. Having fiat in hand, gold bars and so on is quite good. Including having bitcoins in our hard wallet. But that doesn't mean it's safe for us to carry everywhere in critical situations. Because these assets are also vulnerable to loss or so on. So basically everything will depend on the situation. And true wealth in my opinion is what we are enjoying right now. Meanwhile, wealth that has the potential to be fake or genuine is wealth that we cannot currently enjoy.

USDT and USDC are even worse to buy and hold because they are something else; they could easily be depegged under any circumstance if the issuance company has the possibility of its value returning to zero, and then again, instead of holding USDT, I will better advise the person to hold a physical USD and save it up on their personal volt; it's safer since there are no differences since it's still the same fiat.

I believe you are talking about war circumstances, where you may need to escape and run for your life at anytime. So by true wealth you mean to have tools which will allow you to survive on short run and which will proportionate safer and faster methods to escape from hostile forces. You are adopting a short run mindset focused on survival goal, instead of long term goals of building wealthy and developing a consistent patrimony.

However, even in critical times, to seek for land and property is a good plan, once you escape from the critical war scenario you are talking about. You have to seek for a protected, fertile and abundant land to settle down. A land full of clean water sources, where you can raise your crops and breed your animals. A place which will allow you to rebuild and begin from zero once again, far from the threats and sufferings from the place you escaped from.

And about the car, keep in mind that without fuel and maintenance it can't be used for anything at all... In a critical scenario like the one you mentioned, I think that is something you should consider in order to conclude if it's really a true wealth or not.

I hope you guys will not kill me with laughs on Bitcointalk. Too many thoughts cause a thing like this but if you are not gifted in creative thinking, the result will always be similar to this. Besides, if your scope of thought is to be thoroughly observed, then there is no wealth for anyone as the food, fiats and precious properties you mentioned as wealth can't always be with you, or you want to be sleeping on them and never let your eyes go off them for once before you know you own and have access to them? That's crazy.

Also, if you don't trust the bank and others for safekeeping but have them abundantly stored in your house for example, you still need security to guard them for you. What if these guards compromised or a natural disaster claims the property in which you stored them? This is why we should not think deeper than necessary, nothing is 100% safe my brother.

As far as I know, though, riches and wealth are not the same thing, and of course, the rich may have more wealth, but still, those who do not have much may have wealth at the same time. Wealth simply means the excess you have that can take you through the future, it doesn't have to be much, immediately sighted or be that controllable by you. So long we have access to it for future use, then we are wealthy of them. Of course, any unforeseen circumstance can happen at any time, and if we think deeply, nothing in this world is spared from that.

Well, I think that he's implying to the literal of what he said. That, real estate is a fake wealth. If so, then all of the rich people in the world are fake rich folks. Because if not 100% of them owns a property and mass real estate for its purpose of investment and appreciation then all of what they do are only for fakeness. But we do know the reality that if all of us becomes rich through Bitcoin, we're pretty sure that we'd diversify it and number one on the list is going to be with real estate.

There's no such thing as fake wealth as you define, maybe they are paper and not liquid, however it is still wealth and the reasons why people are holding it, because of the obvious that they appreciate in time and so it make them more money.

As compare to your definition of true wealth, of course having a good family could be considered as wealth already. But the true definition of wealth is that you have money in your bank, you an sustain your lifestyle, and then you have your investment as the side and you can build generational wealth.

So I guess you really need to re-define your mindset and maybe it's time for you to go back to economic class to reset everything.

Please read a few books about economics and finance and then start posting on the forum.
Being rich and being wealthy aren't always the same thing. Wealth means having assets that bring you financial independence.
Land and property can be sold or rented. It takes time to find a buyer or a tenant, but you will eventually find one.
The money in the bank are under your control(from a legal point of view). You have a contract with the bank and the bank must abide by the rules of the contract(just like you). Stocks and bonds can also be sold. I guess that you are distinguishing a bunch of assets based on their financial liquidity(their ability to be converted into money as fast as possible).
The food in your home has an expiry date. Fiat money are losing their value. I can only agree about precious metals and crypto being part of your wealth. Your wealth can grow only if you keep making the right financial decisions.

In as much as individual decision towards investment matters and it is a personal decision for us to use our money to do whatever we feel like doing with it, I will say that real estate which comprises of housing and landed property are one of the best investment that people can venture into, fiat remains a highly inflationary currency which you have stated already, as such it is not advisable to keep fiat, it is better to use your fiat to acquire meaningful asset thats profit driven in the long, i feel that it is even a deceit to say that fiat is stable although I underetand that but it would have been better to call it an inflationary currency and invaluable currency.
OP fails to give clarity to what is meant by real estate properties being fake wealth, how will someone called a profitable asset a fake wealth, the investments that are in competition with real estate are Bitcoin, gold and some other mineral and natural resources not even fiat itself, as for me I will choose real estate over fiat any day anytime, although fiat is also needed but you must invest or do something before you get fiat.

Yes.
Real properties = real estate.
It's just another term or if there is a deeper explanation to it, I don't know but that's easier to understand either of the two, have both meanings.

I was like that before and it's such lovely to see that I've got a lot of money in the bank and also in my wallet. But after realizing that goods are increasing, inflation will never stop. It's best to find a way to hedge against inflation and one of them is through real estate. And you are right that we're not the same and people can do anything they want and use money however they want.

It is already said to be real, so how can it be fake, right? LoL. And we are also talking about properties here. I think that means like a real estate. They are one of the best investment even up to this date. I guess that is because they are stable, less risky, and profitable overtime.

Each of us are different, so we can't please everyone to be like us. Maybe they don't like risking their money for something else and for them, they are more comfortable seeing their money on their wallets from time to time despite knowing the fact that there are inflations. There might still be some who are not educated about it, so our suggestions are still good and might save them.

having land/property is not a question of true/fake wealth

is that land paid in full or still part of a loan/rent/lease is the question of true/fake wealth

think about it..
if someone earning only $40k and only has $20k in savings suddenly gets a mortgage for a $200k home.. they pretend they "own" and have $200k of wealth in property. yet they still have to pay $260k in total(after interest) to actually fully own it outright

they are not $200k wealthy via signing a mortgage and getting the house key. they are actually $260k in debt

..
alot of people get a car on finance. a car they cant afford to buy out-right. but they do it to show off to the neighbours that they can drive a bentley, lambo or bughatti.. reality is they are paying off a debt for years, never actually owning the car because its a hire-lease agreement. again they are not actually wealthy, they have the appearance of wealth to others but in realty they are in debt

This is very contrary to most people mindset, if you look at the future profits of goods, land is clearly better than cars. Buying land is very beneficial in the long term, the price of the land you buy will increase in the future, unlike a car whose value is increasingly depleted unless the car has historical value or is often called an antique car. Having an investment asset in the form of land does not require large maintenance costs, unlike a car which requires maintenance costs, insurance and paying taxes. If you prioritize the function of goods for the future, of course you will buy land rather than a car, unless you are already financially established.

What's the difference between the paper fiat money you have at home and those in the bank? If the currency devalues, both will have the same faith because they are the same thing just kept in different places. I know you are trying to say that banks and governments aren't trusted, but in that case, if something happens, the paper money you have at hand would be useless as well.


So you consider land fake wealth only because you can't move it from one place to another? That's not right, and then you say that a car can be a better asset than a piece of land which shows that you are clearly out of your mind because a car depreciates over time and become worthless soon whereas land or property will appreciate over time even if you decide to move somewhere else, it will still be yours and you can come back and sell it later.


Those who think your way will be broke as well, my friend. 

Yet you trust fiat money.

You sound like someone who doesn't have "fake wealth" and because of that you can only trust fiat money, as that you have seen working so far. Sure, if you ever haven't got any land, property, stocks or bonds you might think they are fake, as you never experienced them like your money.

And sure, you can stockpile all that fiat money, but you have to provide security for it yourself and depending where you live, you might have to prove the origin of it. And where exactly are you storing that usd, gold and silver if you don't have a bank account or any property? In a safe? It's not like that's going to be safer place than a bank if you don't live in some super corrupted country.

This is almost Badecker level crazy. I don't think you understand how stablecoins work, as they are highly centralized and your usdt can definitely be frozen, as it already has been done to some accounts.

And i can't believe i have to say this out loud, but Trump isn't behind a dollar or any stablecoin. USDC is by Circle, hence the C in the name. USDT by Tether, hence the "T". You can literally can read about that and not invent lies.

Nor they are a going to be a new usd because they are just reprenting their value, as usdt for example is BACKED by real usd and other assets.

Lands are a good investment in my country. There has been a high rate of urbanization due to an increase in population. Many people are investing in lands located in rural areas because it brings more than 300% profit in a few years because these villages will soon become cities. My parents have owned some plots of land for over five decades and they still own it to date. If you can secure the necessary approved land documents from the government, the land is yours forever. The government will have to pay some compensation if they want to revoke the certificate of occupancy. My main investments for now are Bitcoin and landed properties because they can last for a long time.

I have to disagree to you about real properties as fake wealth and telling it that it's not a good investment. Well as for fiat for telling wealth, if that's the kind of wealth you have, that wealth will decreased due to the inflation if you keep your money there. I'd rather choose to put that wealth into real estate and have its appreciation happen yearly than to put it on paper/fiat money and have it decreased in value yearly or even monthly due to the inflation that we're experiencing.

You seem like somebody who doesn't have any wealth, "true" or "fake" to be coming out with the claims that you make. Property has long be regarded as one of the most stable forms of wealth and will continue to be in demand for centuries to come. Stocks and bonds are the foundations of countries like America, allowing it to become arguably the most powerful economic force on the planet. Stocks are just small slices of ownership in companies and capitalism has proven the most effective economic model that the world has ever seen. Food in your home is wealth (that presumably springs into existence from nowhere)? That is a pathetically stupid observation and shows again that you have little idea of what value really exists in the world yet like to spout grand ideas.

OP, you will get pretty poor pretty quick with that mindset or... you will stay poor forever and never get rich.

Real wealth is land, real estate, stocks, commodities (crypto too), patents, copyrights...

Cash is crap unless you are going to spend it in the near future.

You have a very twisted understanding of the financial world and I don't see it doing you any good. You should immediately educate yourself by reading some books. BlackRock is one of the biggest asset management companies out there and they hold lots of stocks. Do you think they are doing it wrong? Don't make me laugh.

You gotta love people who are not wealthy making their own definitions of what wealth is 

Now, since I know the difference between fake wealth and true wealth, will you give me fake wealth? I don't mind with fake wealth, you can keep the true wealth.

I will rent my land and property so I will earn passive incomes, then I will convert all money in banks, stocks and bonds to Bitcoin, so I will stay rich. I don't need to think about working anymore, I can be free and do anything I like in my life.

Some how, the heading "true wealth and fake wealth" lack what it take in itself to communicate your idea... Taking it from that point it then means that you are your only true wealth...

Talking about land, u pointed USA and UK particularly and that seems OK because the issue is not and can not be the same worldwide (government laws on land and its implementions is different definitely nationwide )....

Then don't forget, the same government can decide a ban on anything ranging from anything to anything making even crypto or some cryptocurrency fake as you term the topic... (the internet or some internet ventures can be prohibited by the government)

Trying to understand your message, I think any form of emotions as the case may be should be replaced with emotional intelligence, (food in your house will get finished, I wonder how much money that can be stock in the house, critical times like u said might not last forever)
You are correct about the human government but you can't take things to the extreme (it seems unnecessary)

For sure when one can't think for oneself then a bottleneck is already in the corner... This also indicates some how that oneself is the only true wealth....

The land it depends the location and goverment but goverment generally cant be trusted.
Goverment don't represent each person rights but more it benefits rich indviduals and hedge funds.
Sometimes your goverment can be changed by another force so new rules.
The true wealth is something that you go away for 30 years or longer you come back and it's all there.

Your comments are contradictory and untrue. Just like fiat in a bank, you don't have control over stablecoin because it is highly centralized. Don't deceive people into thinking stablecoins are safe because they are issued and controlled by third parties. Bitcoin stored in a non-custodian wallet is an example of a safe asset.

It is very childish to think that the safest assets are those that you can carry from place to place. Land is a safe asset because it is durable and appreciates over time. Maybe your position might make sense during a war or conflict when you can move to a safe place with your asset in your wallet.

Untfortunately when world goes into critical times you can be sure more about true wealth and true wealth assets.
Off course when we have stable times no wars and other bigger issues then we can be sure about fake wealth assets.

The fiat currency in bank it's not yours there is too much risk that someone else can control this and even by mistake something can go wrong.
The goverment protection scheme only works when times are good but If goverments have problems with money then techically they cant protect or guarantee nothing.

The true wealth is something wich you have control over yourself not the third partie trust.
The only proof instead of trust will work.

The fake wealth: land, property,money in bank,stocks,bonds.
The true wealth: food in your home, paper Fiat currency money in your hands the pyhsical gold and Silver and cryptocurrency in your self custody wallet.

Land and property not good because you can not take it with you or move from another place to another in some case the car would be even better asset to have.

World going to period when cards will be reshuffled and new players coming in and new game what was before don't matter who lost or win before it don't matter.

When we talk about fiat currencies then only fiat currencies can be trusted wich has stablecoins in this case usdt and usdc so dollar will be safest.
The stablecoins are new fiat and safer then your Bank because you can have stablecoins in your private self custody wallet.
The USA is way ahead of other nations they have 2 of their Fiat currencies as stablecoins now the usdc and usdt the Europe Im not sure i think they have tether euro and circle euro ....but Im surprised UK got nothing going on there is no pound tether neither pound usdc ....i really don't get it what the hell the UK leaders thinking it look like they want to be behind all the other countries countries and their currencies wich don't have stablecoins like usdt or usdc can't be taken seriously anymore in the financial world USA is now leader number one in this.
So by holding UK GBP in bank it's biggest risk because pound is out from Everywhere the UK people definately need to hold cryptocurrency Because UK pound will be first currency wich will fall hardest when all the western countries having financial issues.
Dollar is safest and new dollar will be usdc and usdt we know that Donald trump is behind this project from the very beginning sooner or later the trump will announce it's all fine usdt and usdc will be the new dollar i don't get it why another countries sleeping while USA is doing real things another world will be way behind of USA again.
So USA Banks might be more trusted then another Banks despite the fact that only true wealth are wealth in your hands or in your private self custody crypto wallet.

You trust your bank because it's regulated by goverment rules but your goverment can only give guarantees when times are good and stable.
So those who hold their money in banks in many countries definately will lose and If they don't have true wealth assets they go broke and homeless and nobody don't care because everybody else will have their own problems same goes for goverment leaders they got their own bills to pay and own problems to deal.
Those who can not think for themselfes and taking the full responsibility of their life they will be broke soon.