Topic: Trump is lying without giving a fuck, why? (Read 342 times)

Of course Trump is lying! He's lying in wait, to pounce on his victims, the Democrats, when they least expect it.

 

Depreciation is not an evil thing, which is what the writer tried to assert. That's ridiculous. When you do a business tax schedule, you list your income items, then your expense items. Depreciation is an expense item, period.

It's simply an attempt made in tax law to recognize that assets age and wind up worth little or nothing. Some age to zero on a 5 or 7 year schedule, but commercial real estate is 37 years. If you sell the asset for more than it's book (depreciated) value, then that excess is recaptured and you pay tax on it. If it's real estate, you will at that time pay A LOT. So although the government allows depreciation, due to its printing money, money is worth less, and in $$$, the property "appreciates," then on a sale, you get taxed and the government makes out like a bandit.

But the guy that wrote the article was a complete idiot.

I don't know anyone that doesn't have flaws, often serious flaws. We're all imperfect. Yes it shows in Trump. Other politicians spend their lives covering up flaws, becoming actors. He doesn't. Some see bad in this, others see good.

Oh yeah, not saying the guy who wrote the article is smart in the least. Just kinda agreeing with the fact that Trump lies (and other politicians) that's just a fact.

But yeah, you're without a doubt right on the depreciation thing. All businesses take it, twas a bit different back then and I think they did change it in 2004 -- making what Trump and other business owners did at the time impossible. Though deprecation still happens.

trump is not a perfectly functioning robot, he is a human being he forgets some things or becomes unsure about some things, thats all. you have to live with that. people are never perfect also not, those highly in power, chinese emperor also wasn't perfect, but he payed all his servants to let his entire people believe that stuf about him and recognized foreigners on not being impressed with meeting him.

lol, that is a perfect example of Trump grammar and syntax. Reality is, though, that it is neither truth nor lies. It's Trump talking. Sort of a stream of consciousness, not scripted.

Let me warn you though, that there is a common error that Trump haters make, and that is to hear things like this and translate to "He's stupid."

My advice would be to start with the line "I know windmills very much. I’ve studied it better than anybody", and presume that is completely accurate. EG he knows more than you or I about them. On a classroom test on windmill technology he'd get high 90s. That's a start...

Then he talks about what he knows with this crazy insane grammar and drives people nuts. I don't know why some people take it all very seriously and I find it comical. I do know this is part of what causes him to win time after time. People underestimate him as stupid, then they blunder, then he aces them easily.

Let's have a look at the latest outburst of Don Quixote Trump. What do we think? Truth or lies? If lies, then ad-libbed, off-the-cuff stuff, or carefully choreographed? Or a bit of both - the theme carefully prepared and then communicated in his standard conversational style?

_{https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/12/23/president-trump-lashes-out-an-old-enemy-windmills}

I may (do) think that he's not particularly intelligent, but he's not an idiot, he's well aware that renewables have a tiny carbon footprint compared to fossil fuels, and his positioning here seems quite skilful. 'We have a world', 'Our air, their air', even the word 'spewing' that he uses 3 times in just this segment, very evocative and emotive. So whether this is ad-libbed or not, his message - although I disagree with it profoundly - is communicated perfectly here. He is one of us, fighting the establishment powers, standing up for our rights against the massively polluting renewable energy companies. Of course it's all nonsense, lies of almost breathtaking audacity, but he's good at communicating exactly what he wants to communicate to his target audience. He's also thrown in a bit about it being un-American to support windmills, because if you do, you're not supporting American industry, but rather America's enemies, both current and historic 'They’re made in China and Germany mostly — very few made here, almost none'. Barely a word is wasted here. Windmills are 'very expensive'. Even 'the world is tiny compared to the universe', he's evoking images of vulnerability, as if he's deeply concerned about our helpless little planet.

I despise him, and think that he sounds like a fool, but I can't deny there is a lot of skill in this speech. How much is his and how much is at least loosely scripted I couldn't say, but it's impressive nevertheless.
The syntax and grammar are appalling 'I know windmills very much. I’ve studied it better than anybody', 'they’re manufactured tremendous [...] fumes', and some of it invites ridicule 'I never understood wind', 'You know we have a world, right?' ... but beneath this is a well-targeted and skilfully delivered message.

that's always the same, with the democrats, they allways become sooner or later racist, because they function populistically, they are looking to mobilise identity groups,

that's how the democrats become recently anti white, and allied themselves with the entire greed of the rest of the world in order to enslave and eat off all infrastructure in america, its the same issue in europe, with those lefties that are even called communists, although they are so extremely destructive for the infrastructure and the economy.

Here in the USA it is different than what you describe. It is the "moneyed elite of the left" who spew socialist schemes but seem to only seek more power and give the people little or nothing they promised.

Not sure Trump is "right wing" at all, by the way. Except that in an odd fashion, the left has moved much farther to the left in the last ten years.

American jews have traditionally been > 90% Democrat, but now the party seems to have turned against them, embracing anti-semitism. American blacks have been > 90% democrat but now much less. Trump made them a couple promises and kept them.

For example, Obama's regime handled immigration from the South much as Trump has, but now the American left advocates letting them all in. Let the disaster that was seen in Europe repeat itself here. Where did that come from? That wasn't the traditional American Left.

Taken in isolation, I can see how the autistic genius thing might be the case. But it's not isolated; the rise of Trump is being mirrored across the world - Boris Johnson here in the UK behaves in an extremely similar way to Trump, and in a way that is unprecedented amongst UK leaders: He couldn't care less about his lies. He governs largely through a series of outrageous soundbites that appeal to the prejudices of ordinary people - xenophobia being the most common theme - muslim women look like "letterboxes" and "bank robbers" (some more examples here, very similar to Trump).

It's very unlikely they are both near-autistic geniuses. I think it's more likely the rise of the right-wing populist strongman (Bolsonaro, Modi, Erdogan, Duterte et al). The extreme right-wing often claims to represent the people against the corrupt politicians, and at the same time implement policies to increase wealth inequality. People across the world increasingly feel disenfranchised, but they don't elect left-wing politicians (Bernie Sanders etc) who would really represent the interests of ordinary people, instead what we have is demonisation of the left by the moneyed elite, and the right stay in power. They can't just have more of the same though, they need someone who is a bit of an outsider, who can convincingly be portrayed as a maverick fighting the system. This I think is why the extremists are taking power.

He's certainly followed through on some of the promises. Others he has certainly been blocked on. Others, such as "lock her up", I would argue he never had any intention of following through on.

no one will be happy with someone else that has power, if trump would be a leguan presidant changing his skin color every day, people would still be unhappy.

RE this point, we are not exactly in disagreement. I just view there as being more than one dimension to personality excepting in people who are one dimensional. Referring back to a prior post, ... my opinion of Trump is sort of he's like a near-autistic high level genius. That would explain poor social skills and high achievement. I have worked with several people who were similar, that's why I put it this way.

He is certainly not the average politician really not a politician at all. On the subject of lying, though, which is interesting. During the debates he scolded those he was up against, both Dem and Rep if I recall correctly, as being "Lying politicians." He said he was making some promises and he was going to keep them. Now, Hillary had been caught in some pretty serious lies on Fast and Furious, and on Bengazi and other matters. But Trump seemed to zero in on the "big social program of change" as a characteristic lie of the aspiring politician.

Now I would say this, that a great many people think he delivered on his campaign promises or where he has not, it is due to opposing forces stalling his agenda. I ask this, on these matters which he said he was running on and made more or less his platform, is he a liar? I am NOT certain that left oriented media will say no, and right oriented media will say yes on this. At least to a certain extent this is fact, right?

Here's NPR's take on the matter.

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/20/686531523/progress-report-president-trumps-campaign-promises-2-years-later

Here's the BBC.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37982000

Maybe those are somewhat unbiased viewpoints?

That's the point. The trend will keep going even if the Dems manage to successfully fake the impeachment so much so that the nation believes them.


Do you believe me now? Democrats actively rolling out scheme to remove VP Mike Pence so they can install Nancy Pelosi, then Hillary Clinton as President… the CRIMINAL COUP IS HERE

No, of course not. And I'm not disputing that he has extremely competent advisors who are much more intelligent than I am, and are supreme political strategists. The Trump phenomenon can't be taken in isolation however, here in the UK we have Boris Johnson, who is very much a Trump-lite, cast in a very similar mould. Trump isn't a maverick one-off, he's representative of a developing trend. In many areas the US leads and the rest of the world follows a few years later. This is think is one of those examples.

Yes, point conceded. The petulant child bit is how he appears to me, appreciate he does not appear that way to everyone, or else he would never have got elected. I will stop the bitching and griping, let's get back to the subject of how he lies without caring about being perceived as a liar.

I read that article, and I'm seriously not impressed with it's arguments or logic. Here are a couple of examples.

Mr. Trump was able to lose all that money without facing the usual consequences — such as a steep drop in his standard of living — in part because most of it belonged to others, to the banks and bond investors who had supplied the cash to fuel his acquisitions. ...

Well Duh... Then it wasn't his losses! Those losses were passed through to the investors. An investor group shares in profits and in losses.

Some fraction of that ocean of red ink represented depreciation on Mr. Trump’s real estate. One of the most valuable special benefits in the tax code, depreciation lets owners of commercial real estate write down the cost of their buildings.

Depreciation is taken by everyone who has businesses. Today on commercial, it's the least lenient. Straight line for 37 years, less than 3% per year. Granted, this article goes way back and tax law may have been different.

Generally, speaking, though. This kind of a comment, "There's barely even a guiding intelligence, he's just a petulant child consumed by avarice and a constant need for validation."

Seriously? Go back and study his performance in the debates. Sounds like you just want to have an anti-Trump bitch and gripe thread, not one specifically about his purported lying?

Just asking...I'm not particularly interested in trump vs anti trump bitch and gripe.

Besides, you have been sitting in on his cabinet meetings, right? So you know the info he gleans from around the world, and the strategic info guidance he gets from other people who are way smarter than he, or you, or me, right?

Where's the high achievement? Being born into wealth in a plutocratic society qualifies you to be president (or prime minister in the UK, hello Boris Johnson). It's not a meritocracy, you don't get to run the country by being the best person to run the country.

Trump is all bluster and front, with nothing behind it. There's barely even a guiding intelligence, he's just a petulant child consumed by avarice and a constant need for validation.

And as a businessman, his "defence" against the claim that he lost more money than any other US citizen in history is that it was just for tax purposes. Brilliant. So defrauding the country of $1b makes you the perfect person to run that country...

All I can think of is "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health plan, you can keep your health plan."

There are lies, and then there are lying liars' lies.

trump does not want the power to actually change things.
he has had many chances to make real change and hasnt

his aim is just to get the top seat of the country so that he can use it later as rep that he has been chief of the country and able to manage it. thus when going back to business he can take any position he desires

its like many people want to be promoted to superviser or manager. not to actually change how the work place works.. but just to fill in the experience and job title section of a resume/cv so they can get a better job when they are no longer working for the company

i see many people in many industries that just try to kiss ass and up play their skills for promotions but not interested in putting the work effort into their new roles. they try to back stab and lie to get their positions of notoriety. and once at the level they are happy with. then move onto other projects/industries they prefer at the same top title. but still lacking the skills to fulfil the role

they dont care what they do at that level or how they treat others they just want the title and the benefits that come with it

That's just false and misleading claims by The Washington Post and a Toronto Star graphic.

Here's some evidence which I think backs up my previous point about intentionality and the speed with which each lie is replaced by a new one. It's interesting how the lies peak at just about the time of the 2018 mid-terms - whether this is just related to increased media exposure at that time is difficult to say, but it's an interesting coincidence at least.
(BTW I think the x-axis extends past the end of the data - no-one is suggesting that he stopped lying entirely in June! )

What's important is how intelligent Trump's team thinks he is. We know what the Dems think, already... that he is a worthy opponent, no matter his intelligence. That's why they fight him so hard. He (and his team) are destroying the things they (the Dems) have so determinedly built for decades.

(re bolded) Unrelated to this thread, last couple weeks I have been wondering about the extent of structural modifications to cultural and social discourse that may occur as a result of the sort of things that twitter does. Seems to be mostly changes in bad directions...

RE (I don't think either Trump or Johnson is particularly intelligent) my opinion of Trump is sort of he's like a near-autistic high level genius. That would explain poor social skills and high achievement. I have worked with several people who were similar, that's why I put it this way.

I don't know. I still think my explanation above is plausible, but I can certainly concede that it might just be that the rise of social media and 24 hours news culture has created a climate where people such as Trump (or in the UK the eerily similar Boris Johnson) will just rise to the top. I don't think either Trump or Johnson is particularly intelligent, so perhaps it's not all orchestrated and we are in fact in an era where the ego-maniac attention-seeking bullshitting sociopaths reign supreme.

The old saying is that we get the politicians we deserve; perhaps it is true that the society we have created is one where these people represent the pinnacle, as horrific as is sounds.

Either it's my way, or your way, or indeed probably a mixture of both, some ad-libbed idiocy and some carefully choreographed by advisors. We can't really say for certain, and we are kept guessing...

I'm sure you hate fake, lying policians as much as I do.

But everyone can agree that Trump just says and blurts things pretty much on the moment, often without his own best interest and almost like he doesn't care about making mistakes.

Not sure that's lying, more just like the way he is.

No. How is it relevant though?

Let me repeat, have you yourself ever walked through a hurricane devastated area?

That COULD be an explanation if he was giving an interview from where the hurricane hit, or right after visiting the place. Some kind of emotional mistake yeah.

But I think there is one speech where he does it, so ok let's say that was emotion. And the 7 other times? When he talks about it days if not weeks after the event in a big comfy chair? He's still emotional? Trump is so sensitive and emotional that 3 weeks after the disaster he still doesn't really control what he says?

Damn, not sure that's better...

Have you ever walked around a place a hurricane has hit a few days later? I can totally imagine a person saying those sorts of things over and over.

Talk like "Such extreme meteorological events..." is more like academic eggheads prattling.

Yep. This is the pretty big theory that people use, and at certain times I do actually believe it because it makes sense.

A lot of politicians try this though, it's the fact that it's hard to call them out when there's so much disinformation and lying to the point where it's just a waste of time calling them out. It usually works in the world of politics because people will typically now just accept the fact that most politicians lie -- all they have to do is to convince the voters that they lie less, or they're a bit better then their competitors.

Very very interesting strategy.

I posted about this in another thread.

The continuous lying is intentional, and the crucial factor is the speed with which he can churn out new lies. With each new lie, the last one gets submerged before there is a chance for it to be investigated and debunked. Each outrageous headline gets replaced by a new one faster than you can say 'WTF?'. There is no time to prove it's a lie before the next one is upon us. This is how he stays ahead and on top.

I think that lie is pretty much the feature of all politicians. They don't feel that they lie at the time when they are doing this. They just say what in their opinion is the most appropriate at the moment. One does not feel ashamed in such a situation as they believe that nothing bad or evil has been done. We can analyze their words and speeches forever but that won't change anything in their behavior. Unfortunately    

The whole Hurricane story is old news, but I'm pretty sure Trump wants to be 'right' and to prove that he's smarter then the experts. I think this quote kinda sums it all up from the Atlantic.


So I don't think there is any reason for Trump doing this, just bullshitting about his Southern states and failing and not being able to accept that he's wrong.

Ok this is so purely factual that even the biggest Trumptards won't be able to deny it. I'm still putting it in self mod because you never know what TECSHARE is able of though...

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/01/politics/donald-trump-category-5-hurricane-dorian/index.html

So in a speech Trump says that he's not even sure that he heard about a category 5 hurricane like the Dorian one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVB6fqr4SFI

Ok, why not? After all you don't have to be a scientist to be POTUS and it's a good way to say "wahou it's an unexpected unprecedented event that we have to deal with" so why not.

The problem is that he said THE EXACT SAME THING ALREADY THREE TIMES!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeVCka26BTE

He said exactly that already for the 3 other category 5 that have hit USA while he was in office.

So that's at least 3 times where the guy is lying to his whole country. But why?

My theory here is that he'd rather appear as a moron that admit that such extreme meteorological events are happening more and more which could mean that climate change might not be a Chinese invention.

You see another reason why he would be lying in such obvious way?