Author

Topic: [TUTORIAL] How to extend seed phrase in electrum wallet (Read 254 times)

legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 10611
It just makes brute forcing meaningless, since it'd be quicker if you brute forced the address instead of the seed phrase.
Brute forcing is already meaningless because the entropy size is big enough to make it impossible. Adding a very small step on top of it can not be considered a security measure. Also if we assume that the seed phrase is leaked, it is safe to assume that the extra words are also leaked.
Also saying one impossible thing is easier than another impossible thing is like saying going to Uranus is easier than going to Neptune! Or in this case not even Neptune but only one of Uranus's close by satellites.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
The extra words do not provide any meaningful security to your wallet.

I'd like to examine the chances.

Let's assume that someone wants to brute force a certain legacy address you own, knowing that you've derived it from a master private key that was also derived from a seed. Let's also assume that he knows the derivation path of your address.

The chances of finding your address are 1 in 2160, since he'll stop once he successfully finds your RIPEMD-160 hash. Whether he tries on twelve or twenty four words (128 or 256 bits), he'll stop once he finds the hash collision.

This means that on average, finding your seed phrase will be 232 times easier than with brute forcing the address itself, excluding the different operations that need to be taken for a seed and for just an address.

I'm just adding the numbers decimally:
Code:
2^128 = 340282366920938463463374607431768211456 (12 words)
2^160 = 1461501637330902918203684832716283019655932542976 (RIPEMD-160 hash different combinations)
2^256 = 115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639936 (24 words)

So yes, it may not provide any significant security to your wallet. It just makes brute forcing meaningless, since it'd be quicker if you brute forced the address instead of the seed phrase.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 10611
I find this part of the post a bit misleading. What does it have to do with privacy? The addresses you'll derive from that seed will be known from the server(s) you're connected to.
I believe OP was under the impression that the seed phrase the wallet create is shared with Electrum servers! which is obviously not true.

Quote
If you extend your seed you aren't increasing your privacy strength. You strengthen the security of your wallet. The odds for someone to successfully find a seed collision.
The extra words do not provide any meaningful security to your wallet.
And the odds of finding a collision is already high due to the big size of the entropy used to generate the seed phrase and is not really improved by adding extra words.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
Total privacy: This phrase aren't saved on electrum server and is only unique to you alone.

I find this part of the post a bit misleading. What does it have to do with privacy? The addresses you'll derive from that seed will be known from the server(s) you're connected to. The seed phrase doesn't provide privacy, it *just* recovers your wallet. Going non-custodially surely provides better privacy in contrast with an online wallet. But, keeping yourself private depends on how you will transact. (e.g: Making coinjoin transactions, revealing your master public key etc)

This is what you may wanted to say, but you haven't formulated it properly. You've added this under “Why should you extend a seed”, which isn't true. If you extend your seed you aren't increasing your privacy strength. You strengthen the security of your wallet. The odds for someone to successfully find a seed collision.
sr. member
Activity: 966
Merit: 421
Bitcoindata.science
    Further corrections to the ones already given above:


    • Total privacy: This phrases aren't saved on electrum server and is only I have to you alone.
    [/s]
    Your seed phrase isn't saved on Electrum servers either, and should also not be known by anyone other than you.
    Correction taken
    li]Total privacy: This phrase aren't saved on electrum server and is only unique to you alone.[/li]
    [/list]
    legendary
    Activity: 2268
    Merit: 18711
    Further corrections to the ones already given above:

    • Wallet security:
      The longer the phrase the more secure your wallet would be. Preventing Intruders from guessing the phrase.
    If you want more security for your seed phrase than 12 words, then the correct course of action is to generate a 24 word seed phrase, not to add an additional passphrase. Further, bitcoin private keys have 128 bits of security, so anything beyond a 12 word seed phrase doesn't add very much when considering brute force attacks.

    • plausible deniability:
      It completely denies knowledge of any particular attempt to guess the phrase words and claims such doesn't exist
    Plausible deniability is the main reason to use passphrases, but just using one is not enough to give you plausible deniability. You have to keep the existence of the passphrase protected wallet secret, which includes ensuring there is no blockchain evidence linking it to your other wallets.

    • Total privacy: This phrases aren't saved on electrum server and is only I have to you alone.
    Your seed phrase isn't saved on Electrum servers either, and should also not be known by anyone other than you.
    legendary
    Activity: 3472
    Merit: 10611
    We have over 2048 words on the BIP39 word list,
    We have multiple word lists each in a different language but in each word list there is exactly 2048 words (not over it).

    Quote
    this means that a string of 12 words would have 128bits of security.
    To be clear this is a combination of the number of words and the length of the word list but generally speaking the security of the mnemonic comes from the size of the entropy. A 128 bit entropy providing 128 bits of entropy could be encoded using a bigger list to have smaller number of words or a smaller list and have larger number of words but the security remains the same.

    Quote
    If an intruder wishes to attack a wallet it is expected of such to carryout 2128 operations to guess a 12 word phrase.
    It is 2128 not 2128 and it is not the number of operations, it is the number of possible values for a 128 bit entropy.
    When copying text from elsewhere you should take note of the formatting!

    Quote
    It might seem to be a small number, but it is more complex than you think. This seed can also be extended to improve security.
    Extension most of the times does not provide additional security because for one users don't use a truly random input as their extension word and also the algorithm used to derive the keys is not strong enough.

    Quote
    Seed phrase extension
    Seed extension is the process of adding more words to the existing seed phrase to strengthen the security of a crypto wallet.
    Not exactly correct. I alraedy explained why it is not providing security, also it is not "adding more words" it is adding an arbitrary string which can be words or literary anything else like a bunch of emojis or a random password like "jz7P*s&{$Ys5+GoJoA".
    hero member
    Activity: 1442
    Merit: 775
    Hackers steal your seed when your store it online or in devices that you use to connect to Internet. Your devices need to be clean and seed backup need to be in encrypted files.

    If you secure your devices well and don't connect it to the Internet more than you need, the risks of hacks will be less.

    Many people use Notepad to store their private keys, seeds or passwords and it is too bad. Unencrypted and vulnerable to hacks.

    Worthy to note.

    Wallet with extended phrase is a different wallet than the one without extended phrase. If your create a wallet with extended phrase, and store your Bitcoin in that one, you must back up wallet seed (default) and extended one. Secure them and make sure you don't make typos for back ups.

    If anything is inaccurate, you will get troubles when recover that wallet. At worst, you will lose your Bitcoin.
    legendary
    Activity: 2534
    Merit: 6080
    Self-proclaimed Genius
    Seed phrase extension
    Seed extension is the process of adding more words to the existing seed phrase to strengthen the security of a crypto wallet. This is done while creating a new wallet.
    Reserved extension seed phrase:
    Code:
    -BIP39 seed wordlist-
    Take note that the extension doesn't necessarily have to be a word from BIP39 wordlist.
    It can be any word, phrase or even symbols, the "Seed Phrase Extension" is actually a passphrase a.k.a. "BIP39 Passphrase".
    legendary
    Activity: 2114
    Merit: 2248
    Playgram - The Telegram Casino
    If an intruder wishes to attack a wallet it is expected of such to carryout 2128 operations to guess a 12 word phrase.
    It is far more difficult than that and not feasible for a hacker to correctly guess the entire seed phrase of an address, even without an extra passphrase as it's more complex than simply guessing any random 12 words.

    Also, a seed phrase can be used for plausible deniability; to create an address which is different from the original one, this can be used to hide balances should the holder find themselves in any trouble.
    sr. member
    Activity: 966
    Merit: 421
    Bitcoindata.science
    Seed phrase, seed recovery or recovery phrase which is said to be an arrangement of words used to gain access to cryptocurrency wallets. In Bitcoin, seed phrases gives users an avenue to backup their wallets. If one looses access to a certain wallet it can be accessed in any BIP39-compactible wallet to recover funds. We have over 2048 words on the BIP39 word list, this means that a string of 12 words would have 128bits of security. This makes hacking or intruding into your wallet a bit studious.

    If an intruder wishes to attack a wallet it is expected of such to carryout 2128 operations to guess a 12 word phrase. It might seem to be a small number, but it is more complex than you think. This seed can also be extended to improve security.

    Is seed phrase the same as private key
    Quote

    Seed phrase is different from private key in that private key can be considered to be a secret number that allows coin to be spent. It creates a key pair that grants access to wallets. While a seed phrase is simply a representation of a random number. It's an ordered sequence of 12 or 24 words, chosen from a list of 2048 words. Using cryptography, your wallet can derive your private key using your seed phrase. And with that private key, your wallet can spend your bitcoin.

    Seed phrase extension
    Seed extension is the process of adding more words to the existing seed phrase to strengthen the security of a crypto wallet. This is done while creating a new wallet.
    Reserved extension seed phrase:
    Code:
    abandon
    ability
    able
    about
    above
    absent
    absorb
    abstract
    absurd
    abuse
    access
    accident
    account
    accuse
    achieve
    acid
    acoustic
    acquire
    across
    act
    action
    actor
    actress
    actual
    adapt
    add
    addict
    address
    adjust
    admit
    adult
    advance
    advice
    aerobic
    affair
    afford
    afraid
    again
    age
    agent
    agree
    ahead
    aim
    air
    airport
    aisle
    alarm
    album
    alcohol
    alert
    alien
    all
    alley
    allow
    almost
    alone
    alpha
    already
    also
    alter
    always
    amateur
    amazing
    among
    amount
    amused
    analyst
    anchor
    ancient
    anger
    angle
    angry
    animal
    ankle
    announce
    annual
    another
    answer
    antenna
    antique
    anxiety
    any
    apart
    apology
    appear
    apple
    approve
    april
    arch
    arctic
    area
    arena
    argue
    arm
    armed
    armor
    army
    around
    arrange
    arrest
    arrive
    arrow
    art
    artefact
    artist
    artwork
    ask
    aspect
    assault
    asset
    assist
    assume
    asthma
    athlete
    atom
    attack
    attend
    attitude
    attract
    auction
    audit
    august
    aunt
    author
    auto
    autumn
    average
    avocado
    avoid
    awake
    aware
    away
    awesome
    awful
    awkward
    axis
    baby
    bachelor
    bacon
    badge
    bag
    balance
    balcony
    ball
    bamboo
    banana
    banner
    bar
    barely
    bargain
    barrel
    base
    basic
    basket
    battle
    beach
    bean
    beauty
    because
    become
    beef
    before
    begin
    behave
    behind
    believe
    below
    belt
    bench
    benefit
    best
    betray
    better
    between
    beyond
    bicycle
    bid
    bike
    bind
    biology
    bird
    birth
    bitter
    black
    blade
    blame
    blanket
    blast
    bleak
    bless
    blind
    blood
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    body
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    bonus
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    cement
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    monkey
    monster
    month
    moon
    moral
    more
    morning
    mosquito
    mother
    motion
    motor
    mountain
    mouse
    move
    movie
    much
    muffin
    mule
    multiply
    muscle
    museum
    mushroom
    music
    must
    mutual
    myself
    mystery
    myth
    naive
    name
    napkin
    narrow
    nasty
    nation
    nature
    near
    neck
    need
    negative
    neglect
    neither
    nephew
    nerve
    nest
    net
    network
    neutral
    never
    news
    next
    nice
    night
    noble
    noise
    nominee
    noodle
    normal
    north
    nose
    notable
    note
    nothing
    notice
    novel
    now
    nuclear
    nose
    notable
    note
    nothing
    notice
    novel
    now
    nuclear
    number
    nurse
    nut
    oak
    obey
    object
    oblige
    obscure
    observe
    obtain
    obvious
    occur
    ocean
    october
    odor
    off
    offer
    office
    often
    oil
    okay
    old
    olive
    olympic
    omit
    once
    one
    onion
    online
    only
    open
    opera
    opinion
    oppose
    option
    orange
    orbit
    orchard
    order
    ordinary
    organ
    orient
    original
    orphan
    ostrich
    other
    outdoor
    outer
    output
    outside
    oval

    https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt

      Why should you extend a seed
      • Wallet security:
        The longer the phrase the more secure your wallet would be. Preventing Intruders from guessing the phrase.
      • plausible deniability:
        It completely denies knowledge of any particular attempt to guess the phrase words and claims such doesn't exist
      • Total privacy: This phrase aren't saved on electrum server and is only unique to you alone.


      How to set up seed extension

      step 1: from www.electrum.org download the app to your preferred device.



      Step 2: click on next to which would take you to where you would select the wallet type you prefer.



      Step 3: from the menu select your preferred wallet type.



      Step 4: proceed to create your own personal new seed from the BIP39 word list.



      Step 5: write down your seed phrase in a save document, from the seed phrase menu click on the settings icon



      Step 6: click on the box provided to add the seed phrase selected from the list of reserved words




      Step 7: enter the custom words you wish to extend your seed phrase with.



      Disclaimer:
      The images provided is for illustration purpose only and does not belong to anyone.


      Source
      https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki



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