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Topic: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers. (Read 1045 times)

serjent05
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UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
July 01, 2020, 06:52:45 AM
#78
Quote from: Kakmakr on July 01, 2020, 06:33:57 AM
The difference for me comes in when the players have some control over the outcome of the game or when there are some kind of skill that would help them to get the reward. (So if you have good eye-hand coordination and you can use that to grab a Teddy bear, then I will not call it gambling)

I agree, but in loot boxes, players have no control or whatsoever on the result of the roll.  I remember one youtuber getting nothing special out of $1000 he spent on Ragnarok M eternal love and his expression is like wtf, and it looks like he wanted to bang his head on the monitor LOL.  Imagine kids having this kind of frustration and yet he keeps on coming back for another try because he wanted to get something that is near to impossible to get.  That is some kind of preparing them to be compulsive gambling someday.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
July 01, 2020, 06:33:57 AM
#77
A lot of Arcade games can also encourage gambling, but that is also open for debate. https://www.casino.org/blog/do-arcades-and-claw-machines-turn-kids-into-gamblers/  

The problem with the "Loot boxes" has been an issue for years now, see this article in 2018 - https://theconversation.com/gambling-loot-boxes-in-video-games-could-be-conditioning-children-107667

The difference for me comes in when the players have some control over the outcome of the game or when there are some kind of skill that would help them to get the reward. (So if you have good eye-hand coordination and you can use that to grab a Teddy bear, then I will not call it gambling)

The Arcade center near our brick-n-mortar casino has a lot of "Coin pusher" type games.. so I think they want kids to get used to those kind of rewards to groom them for gambling later in their lives.  Roll Eyes
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
July 01, 2020, 04:35:03 AM
#76
Quote from: pilosopotasyo on June 27, 2020, 11:26:04 PM
Quote from: Debonaire217 on June 27, 2020, 10:25:04 PM
I think this should not reach the jurisdiction to tell that kids are gambling through loot boxes because in the first place, discipline starts inside of their respective homes where their parents should be the one supervising their child whether to give them credits to use in games, it is not wrong to ask your kid which item he/she would buy and if you think it isn't fair, or quite exposing them to the side of gambling, then simply don't allowing them will solve the problem and explain it further if they insist.

Good thinking, kids should have parental guidance when purchasing anything on the internet,  it's not their money any way it's their parent's money, the site just needs to post a disclaimer about the things that customers or players are purchasing, no need to disrupt the industry with that kind of ruling, they should do a survey first among parents of gamers before coming up with that kind of decision.

I think kids  probably shouldn't be exposed to lots of betting games at very tender ages, just as you don't expose them to many kinds of alcoholic beverages(probably the sweet ones). They could easily play/drink too much and even get addicted due to weak self-control.
You still encourage them when they are of age to avoid gambling. They may "bet but don't Gamble"
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 30, 2020, 11:15:13 PM
#75
Based on this expertise, kids must be protected. I agree that the industry is regulated because they are certainly learning to become a compulsive gambling player in the future. Therefore, creators must develop games that contribute to children's intellectual growth.
TimeTeller
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 30, 2020, 06:28:10 PM
#74
Quote from: alani123 on June 30, 2020, 04:17:32 PM
I think this regulation is fair game. Game developers continue to have complete free reign over what they put in their games, but to try and lure children to spend money over "randomized" content such as in game items is just ridiculous. Some games with no age rating are featuring such mechanics and it was begging for regulation. It's amazing how companies were getting millions this way, paying no taxes, and still pretending it wasn't gambling. Big companies have gotten away with it for so long without even paying tax or being regulated, while even receiving subsidies (looking at you Activision Blizzard), and also paying their CEOs millions in bonuses even when under-performing. Corporations that are big in producing games can be very scummy. And they call casino owners shady...

That's their main purpose, to earn big profits without worrying about the tax that they need to pay.
And they are hiding it from creating this kind of loot boxes games.
Of course, kids do not bother about this taxes and all. They just care about what they will get.
So maybe the government is not after for these kids that may turn up to gamblers but rather they are after for these big companies.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 30, 2020, 04:57:45 PM
#73
Quote from: serjent05 on June 30, 2020, 11:47:33 AM
Quote from: Debonaire217 on June 27, 2020, 10:25:04 PM
I think this should not reach the jurisdiction to tell that kids are gambling through loot boxes because in the first place, discipline starts inside of their respective homes where their parents should be the one supervising their child whether to give them credits to use in games, it is not wrong to ask your kid which item he/she would buy and if you think it isn't fair, or quite exposing them to the side of gambling, then simply don't allowing them will solve the problem and explain it further if they insist.

I hope it is easy as that.  We all know children have this thing curiosity and sometimes being mischievous. At least having the government to rule that loot box in a game is like gambling, parents have a strong footing to warn their children about it.  Aside from that, tagging this kind of money-making scheme of the game developers as gambling activities will more likely resulting in them(game developer/owner) giving the player the true value of the money they are spending in the game. I am agreeing that this loot boxes in the game should be tagged as a gambling activity.

Gambling activity or not, this will vary or depend on how a child do recognize this kind of activity and since this had been allowed then it all matters with kids parents on how they do

handle out or explain clearly to their child on what they are dealing with in case they do know that their son/daughter is engage up with this thing or not but in most cases, parents

arent aware that much on activities specially if they are just too busy into something. This one can either be a gambling nor just simply buying out just because you do

love to get some unexpected rewards.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 30, 2020, 04:17:32 PM
#72
I think this regulation is fair game. Game developers continue to have complete free reign over what they put in their games, but to try and lure children to spend money over "randomized" content such as in game items is just ridiculous. Some games with no age rating are featuring such mechanics and it was begging for regulation. It's amazing how companies were getting millions this way, paying no taxes, and still pretending it wasn't gambling. Big companies have gotten away with it for so long without even paying tax or being regulated, while even receiving subsidies (looking at you Activision Blizzard), and also paying their CEOs millions in bonuses even when under-performing. Corporations that are big in producing games can be very scummy. And they call casino owners shady...
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 30, 2020, 03:40:38 PM
#71
Quote from: bitbunnny on June 30, 2020, 11:15:42 AM
Quote from: yazher on June 30, 2020, 11:02:46 AM
I don't think this is a good one, as a kid, you really need to avoid such kind of action to pursue your dreams or else you ended up losing all of your allowance for mere entertainment. They need to re-think this new rule because this is not an easy thing to eliminate once it has been approved for many years now. The kids will not be recovered from addiction in a day. they want to gather as much money as they can but the risk is higher than to earn. Kids shouldn't be thinking where he needs to get money to play more instead he needs to have some free mind and to have some problem-free life.

I really can't understand how can they expose kids to such risk. They can't think clearly and rationaly and will not be able to resist temptation. That is big potential social problem but obviously authorities didn't think that way. That can only push forward completely wrong at these children who will play such games. When problems ocur I guess it will be too late.
In our society now, it's really hard to control the developers in developing different kind of games as they will try to provide an exciting games to attract gamers and that is regardless of their hidden intentions. If we care for our children, I think we should be the one monitoring our children's activity online to avoid all online temptations.

Actually not only games but there's a lot of things, if they can get any information how to gamble, they can also try it as children are always curious on things they will discover online, the discipline should start from us,  if we don't tolerate our children, government does not have to take this kind of actions that would hinder the success of the games developers.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 30, 2020, 11:47:33 AM
#70
Quote from: Debonaire217 on June 27, 2020, 10:25:04 PM
I think this should not reach the jurisdiction to tell that kids are gambling through loot boxes because in the first place, discipline starts inside of their respective homes where their parents should be the one supervising their child whether to give them credits to use in games, it is not wrong to ask your kid which item he/she would buy and if you think it isn't fair, or quite exposing them to the side of gambling, then simply don't allowing them will solve the problem and explain it further if they insist.

I hope it is easy as that.  We all know children have this thing curiosity and sometimes being mischievous. At least having the government to rule that loot box in a game is like gambling, parents have a strong footing to warn their children about it.  Aside from that, tagging this kind of money-making scheme of the game developers as gambling activities will more likely resulting in them(game developer/owner) giving the player the true value of the money they are spending in the game. I am agreeing that this loot boxes in the game should be tagged as a gambling activity.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 30, 2020, 11:44:26 AM
#69
Quote from: Mauser on June 30, 2020, 10:06:13 AM
Quote from: Becky666 on June 30, 2020, 09:42:56 AM
Grin games you win without cashing out isn't a gambling platform and should be hit with more rules, they deserve this. Those games were my liken from childhood because I used to play with these games on phones. Buying virtual coins to game with real fiats money looks bad, this can  also lead many kids to early gambling addiction. The car race was my favourite among these categories of games, some of my gambling zeas (minor addiction) today came from here, and am still strongly with them.

Games with cashing out or not should be definitely regulated more if they are for kids. Just because they don't require actual money and work with virtual currencies, or skins/mounts for games, doesn't mean they can't be addictive for kids.
The thing with casinos is the games are somehow standardized, everyone knows the chance to win. But with these loot boxes, no one knows their chances of winning something big. It could be all a big scam in the end. For youngsters under 18 there definitely needs to be  more regulation.
It's the downside of letting kids be addicted to gadgets at a young age. It may not involve monetary rewards like in real gambling, kids can still be addicted to games that they can bring once they grow up.

But one thing is that, even if the game is not intended for minors, once it gets popular, minors will still play it since it's accessible. So it's already outside of the hand of the developer nor the government. The regulation should be implemented by their parents. Also, kids won't be able to spend money on loot boxes if their parents didn't allow them in the first place. Kids still find it hard to control their emotions so once they start spending money on certain entertainment, it will be hard for them to resist doing it again.



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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 30, 2020, 11:15:42 AM
#68
Quote from: yazher on June 30, 2020, 11:02:46 AM
I don't think this is a good one, as a kid, you really need to avoid such kind of action to pursue your dreams or else you ended up losing all of your allowance for mere entertainment. They need to re-think this new rule because this is not an easy thing to eliminate once it has been approved for many years now. The kids will not be recovered from addiction in a day. they want to gather as much money as they can but the risk is higher than to earn. Kids shouldn't be thinking where he needs to get money to play more instead he needs to have some free mind and to have some problem-free life.

I really can't understand how can they expose kids to such risk. They can't think clearly and rationaly and will not be able to resist temptation. That is big potential social problem but obviously authorities didn't think that way. That can only push forward completely wrong at these children who will play such games. When problems ocur I guess it will be too late.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 30, 2020, 11:02:46 AM
#67
I don't think this is a good one, as a kid, you really need to avoid such kind of action to pursue your dreams or else you ended up losing all of your allowance for mere entertainment. They need to re-think this new rule because this is not an easy thing to eliminate once it has been approved for many years now. The kids will not be recovered from addiction in a day. they want to gather as much money as they can but the risk is higher than to earn. Kids shouldn't be thinking where he needs to get money to play more instead he needs to have some free mind and to have some problem-free life.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 30, 2020, 10:06:13 AM
#66
Quote from: Becky666 on June 30, 2020, 09:42:56 AM
Grin games you win without cashing out isn't a gambling platform and should be hit with more rules, they deserve this. Those games were my liken from childhood because I used to play with these games on phones. Buying virtual coins to game with real fiats money looks bad, this can  also lead many kids to early gambling addiction. The car race was my favourite among these categories of games, some of my gambling zeas (minor addiction) today came from here, and am still strongly with them.

Games with cashing out or not should be definitely regulated more if they are for kids. Just because they don't require actual money and work with virtual currencies, or skins/mounts for games, doesn't mean they can't be addictive for kids.
The thing with casinos is the games are somehow standardized, everyone knows the chance to win. But with these loot boxes, no one knows their chances of winning something big. It could be all a big scam in the end. For youngsters under 18 there definitely needs to be  more regulation.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 30, 2020, 09:42:56 AM
#65
 Grin games you win without cashing out isn't a gambling platform and should be hit with more rules, they deserve this. Those games were my liken from childhood because I used to play with these games on phones. Buying virtual coins to game with real fiats money looks bad, this can  also lead many kids to early gambling addiction. The car race was my favourite among these categories of games, some of my gambling zeas (minor addiction) today came from here, and am still strongly with them.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 30, 2020, 06:08:56 AM
#64
When gambling you bound to lose your money, loot boxes and since we are talking about crypto give you an actual value no matter how many boxes you buy which isn't gambling, and yes you can get a bit hooked to that, just as you can get hooked to any sound, color or action.
When you say spent 10000$ you definetly not mean crypto-gaming, as some crypto games are basicaly rather giving away money.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 30, 2020, 05:59:30 AM
#63
Quote from: traderethereum on June 30, 2020, 02:40:01 AM
Quote from: pilosopotasyo on June 27, 2020, 11:26:04 PM
Quote from: Debonaire217 on June 27, 2020, 10:25:04 PM
I think this should not reach the jurisdiction to tell that kids are gambling through loot boxes because in the first place, discipline starts inside of their respective homes where their parents should be the one supervising their child whether to give them credits to use in games, it is not wrong to ask your kid which item he/she would buy and if you think it isn't fair, or quite exposing them to the side of gambling, then simply don't allowing them will solve the problem and explain it further if they insist.

Good thinking, kids should have parental guidance when purchasing anything on the internet,  it's not their money any way it's their parent's money, the site just needs to post a disclaimer about the things that customers or players are purchasing, no need to disrupt the industry with that kind of ruling, they should do a survey first among parents of gamers before coming up with that kind of decision.
Nah, many kids know how to use their parents' credit cards to buy something on the internet.
Kids now are smart and they can learn without we teach them.
It is a job for every parent to watch out their kids while they connect to the internet because they can attract to play games, which can lead them to gamble with their parent's money.
Before it's happening, we need to make some rules for them when they can use the internet to learn something or read or watch something.
I am sure they will not do something negative with the internet, and they will know that gambling is a dangerous thing that they should stay away.

I think the method you are saying is correct.It is the one we can all use by using our Internet Security Software to define which websites can the kids access as a first point of defense.Nowadays all kids have tablets or start to use parents phones and these are the second line of defense where we can install apps which makes the usage of these devices timed like 1 hour a day only.

These tips plus constant good education and speaking directly with the children will ensure they grow up healthy and free from gambling and addiction.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 30, 2020, 02:40:01 AM
#62
Quote from: pilosopotasyo on June 27, 2020, 11:26:04 PM
Quote from: Debonaire217 on June 27, 2020, 10:25:04 PM
I think this should not reach the jurisdiction to tell that kids are gambling through loot boxes because in the first place, discipline starts inside of their respective homes where their parents should be the one supervising their child whether to give them credits to use in games, it is not wrong to ask your kid which item he/she would buy and if you think it isn't fair, or quite exposing them to the side of gambling, then simply don't allowing them will solve the problem and explain it further if they insist.

Good thinking, kids should have parental guidance when purchasing anything on the internet,  it's not their money any way it's their parent's money, the site just needs to post a disclaimer about the things that customers or players are purchasing, no need to disrupt the industry with that kind of ruling, they should do a survey first among parents of gamers before coming up with that kind of decision.
Nah, many kids know how to use their parents' credit cards to buy something on the internet.
Kids now are smart and they can learn without we teach them.
It is a job for every parent to watch out their kids while they connect to the internet because they can attract to play games, which can lead them to gamble with their parent's money.
Before it's happening, we need to make some rules for them when they can use the internet to learn something or read or watch something.
I am sure they will not do something negative with the internet, and they will know that gambling is a dangerous thing that they should stay away.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 27, 2020, 11:26:04 PM
#61
Quote from: Debonaire217 on June 27, 2020, 10:25:04 PM
I think this should not reach the jurisdiction to tell that kids are gambling through loot boxes because in the first place, discipline starts inside of their respective homes where their parents should be the one supervising their child whether to give them credits to use in games, it is not wrong to ask your kid which item he/she would buy and if you think it isn't fair, or quite exposing them to the side of gambling, then simply don't allowing them will solve the problem and explain it further if they insist.

Good thinking, kids should have parental guidance when purchasing anything on the internet,  it's not their money any way it's their parent's money, the site just needs to post a disclaimer about the things that customers or players are purchasing, no need to disrupt the industry with that kind of ruling, they should do a survey first among parents of gamers before coming up with that kind of decision.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 27, 2020, 10:25:04 PM
#60
I think this should not reach the jurisdiction to tell that kids are gambling through loot boxes because in the first place, discipline starts inside of their respective homes where their parents should be the one supervising their child whether to give them credits to use in games, it is not wrong to ask your kid which item he/she would buy and if you think it isn't fair, or quite exposing them to the side of gambling, then simply don't allowing them will solve the problem and explain it further if they insist.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 27, 2020, 09:32:19 PM
#59
Quote from: FlightyPouch on June 27, 2020, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: Darker45 on June 27, 2020, 08:09:46 AM
It is their decision that will be followed. To me personally, however, it does not sound gambling at all.

Those elements of surprise and chance are not enough a reason so that those loot boxes games should be considered gambling. Buying a mystery box is not gambling.

At first, I saw it as a harmless way for players to spend their money and for that gaming platform to earn some but in the long run, players are kind of addicted to buying them. They are after rare items and the chance of getting them is low compared to normal ones. They will not stop until they get themselves a rare in-game item and that might take a while and take some money that is why I consider it as gambling.

Well, in a broad sense, it could possibly be gambling. In the same manner that life is a gamble.

Online games always have ways to make sure the gamer won't stop playing. There are items to look for, levels to pursue, skills to unlock, heroes to be accessed, ranks to achieve, golds to earn, stars to acquire, and so on and so forth. All this is for the players to get hooked on to it.

And then they are providing premium access, load cards, and other ways for the players who wish to spend and receive a certain exclusive offering in return. This is taking money from them.

However, all this is not betting or placing a wager.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 27, 2020, 06:58:38 PM
#58
Quote from: Darker45 on June 27, 2020, 08:09:46 AM
It is their decision that will be followed. To me personally, however, it does not sound gambling at all.

Those elements of surprise and chance are not enough a reason so that those loot boxes games should be considered gambling. Buying a mystery box is not gambling.

At first, I saw it as a harmless way for players to spend their money and for that gaming platform to earn some but in the long run, players are kind of addicted to buying them. They are after rare items and the chance of getting them is low compared to normal ones. They will not stop until they get themselves a rare in-game item and that might take a while and take some money that is why I consider it as gambling.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 27, 2020, 06:50:52 PM
#57
Quote from: Twinkledoe on June 26, 2020, 05:15:36 PM
Quote from: Quidat on June 26, 2020, 02:56:19 PM
Quote from: finaleshot2016 on June 26, 2020, 12:48:11 PM
I've been buying loot boxes when I was a kid but now I'm not into gambling and don't take it seriously, it's a matter of entertainment only. It still depends on how the parents or guardian will handle their children and I'm lucky that I learn self-discipline so I can avoid spending money on non-essential things.

I'm curious about this study of the UK where they conclude that buying loot boxes will make you a gambler soon. If their data or surveys were taken by old gamblers, I guess it's very inaccurate since there are no online games in early 2000 and loot boxes don't exist at that time. So how can they knew that kids will turn into gamblers if they buy something that has an unknown result? Same goes with loot boxes, it's RNG even in life, no one knows if you'll get hooked up in gambling or not.

It all matters in one self because not all do engaged into a particular stuff will surely turn into something and just like this one where buying up lootboxes and its not really that precise for them to presume on kids to become future gamblers just because they got involved into? You are right that this do also matter with proper parenting and also on ones self-discipline because buying out can either be just a result of curiosity and nothing less or some sort of gambling out that you do go yolo for it.It all matters into you if you do really treat it as a way of gambling but also young minds wont really
be bothered if they are making a spark to be come a gambler or not on that time.

It really depends on many things but yes, I don't think that all those kids buying those loot boxes games will turn into gambling addicts. But maybe the government is just preventing for possible effects on the kids later on. But for me, it will be more on the entertainment side, the element of surprise that you will get after opening the package. Now, it is up to the individual how he will behave later on and what characteristics he will develop on this activity.
If those lootboxes do contain up something useful for kids then i would really say that it would really be on that entertainment side and not on gambling.There might be some perceptions on spending money spree for some kids but doesnt mean that would mold up them to become a gambler.It depends on how they do treat it up but most of the time on that kind of age wont really be minding much
if they are spending and treating it as a gambling or not but i doubt that they arent still into that kind of situation.It isnt bad for government to be protective into its young citizens but this do actually
isnt really a big deal nor a problem at all.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 27, 2020, 10:06:17 AM
#56
I have made a similar post on my social media account about the similar situation. I do not know if there are such children's toys in all countries of the world, but there is a set of games sold in my country under the name of "Surprise box". When you buy this set of games, there are one surprise toy, several chance cards with the series of toys and scratch cards. Although the children do not try their luck in this way with the purpose of making money when they buy this set of games and there is no risk in this way, I still think that this is not really useful. Yes, I am gambling too, but we should not forget the fact that gambling is not a good thing and not everyone can control itself while gambling. Personally, I think that the sale of such games, toys and play sets should be prohibited, even though it is not exactly gambling. In this way, they accustom young children to gambling in the future, even just a few years later.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 27, 2020, 08:09:46 AM
#55
It is their decision that will be followed. To me personally, however, it does not sound gambling at all.

Those elements of surprise and chance are not enough a reason so that those loot boxes games should be considered gambling. Buying a mystery box is not gambling.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 26, 2020, 11:00:27 PM
#54
Quote from: ?? on ??
Have they done enough study on this and the only approach they can think of is to classify it as gambling, it will hurt the industry that's making $23 billion and will also impact the tax revenue of the government here, the best way is to ask these gaming operators to change or modified some features of the game so it will not fall into that category.
The impact won't be that big on the taxes because those people could spend their loot box money on other services , products, etc that's also involved with taxes.


Quote from: MCobian on June 26, 2020, 05:52:25 PM
Loot boxes or mystery boxes are not gambling in my opinion, but only features in games to get weapons or equipment. It's similar to
gambling because we don't know what we're buying, but it's not gambling because it doesn't involve rewards in the form of money.
This is just a game creator strategy to be able to get money from children, sad actually making money this way.
Depends on the game because not all platforms restrict their players from selling these items. It's hard to deny that it's not related to gambling because on a few popular games there are people willing to sell their account (with very rare items) for money.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 26, 2020, 10:24:14 PM
#53
Quote from: MCobian on June 26, 2020, 05:52:25 PM
Loot boxes or mystery boxes are not gambling in my opinion, but only features in games to get weapons or equipment. It's similar to
gambling because we don't know what we're buying, but it's not gambling because it doesn't involve rewards in the form of money.
This is just a game creator strategy to be able to get money from children, sad actually making money this way.

For me it is gambling.

You are wagering your money into hoping of getting something of the same value or higher but most of the time you aren't since we usually based it on luck, in games we based it on RNG. Gambling is not just about money, it is also about wagering something with value. Some even bet their lands, their houses, their cars, their positions which I don't think should be advisable.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 26, 2020, 09:22:54 PM
#52
Gacha loot boxes in other words? Hmm, I don't really think they should even bother with that? I mean, most of it should be regulated by their parents and not authorities imo. Besides, loot boxes in a few games here and there are actually obtained sometimes free, so how would they limit those? Would they coordinate with the various corporations that released the game? That's going to require a lot of resources imo, since there are a lot off games out there that give out loot boxes / gacha games.

Quote from: 20kevin20 on June 08, 2020, 10:19:02 AM
You spend cash to get fake currencies to receive in-game weapon skins or decals through a mechanism similar to gambling.. and can't even cash out.
You can actually sell them out. Though in most cases, it's either in in-game currency or something similar, but if there was a middle man service that could handle selling skins out, then you could basically receive money from them. It's like how the steam market works, and it's pretty close to a player-driven market if not one already. You can see it from those rare DOTA 2 couriers going up to thousands of dollars price tag.

STT
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 26, 2020, 05:54:30 PM
#51
Quote
But if this game is mostly for kids and minors, I don't think they should also require such offers like that because where do kids get the money?


The game is intact regardless of any additional options such as what these boxes contain.    Theres no requirement or need to have these items and if thats the case I dont see its as harmful as stated, nobody has to buy anything and even the game is free.   Obviously the cost of buying a computer isnt small and so on but the game itself isnt about gambling.    Thats true of games I've played anyway, I dont know if some like FIFA actually need people to do this or not.
   Its like a form of DLC where the game works with or without it, it might be even less then that as its just altering colours or outfits.   We cant outlaw fancy expensive trainers because some kids just wear rubber daps to play sports, its not even that as the utility in game is totally equal across every item, player and account.
   I wont be surprised if UK law does require gambling taxes because they need that revenue to be there so theres some bias to the argument to classify any unknown type opening as gamble industry so I guess it does go that way.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 26, 2020, 05:52:25 PM
#50
Loot boxes or mystery boxes are not gambling in my opinion, but only features in games to get weapons or equipment. It's similar to
gambling because we don't know what we're buying, but it's not gambling because it doesn't involve rewards in the form of money.
This is just a game creator strategy to be able to get money from children, sad actually making money this way.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 26, 2020, 05:15:36 PM
#49
Quote from: Quidat on June 26, 2020, 02:56:19 PM
Quote from: finaleshot2016 on June 26, 2020, 12:48:11 PM
I've been buying loot boxes when I was a kid but now I'm not into gambling and don't take it seriously, it's a matter of entertainment only. It still depends on how the parents or guardian will handle their children and I'm lucky that I learn self-discipline so I can avoid spending money on non-essential things.

I'm curious about this study of the UK where they conclude that buying loot boxes will make you a gambler soon. If their data or surveys were taken by old gamblers, I guess it's very inaccurate since there are no online games in early 2000 and loot boxes don't exist at that time. So how can they knew that kids will turn into gamblers if they buy something that has an unknown result? Same goes with loot boxes, it's RNG even in life, no one knows if you'll get hooked up in gambling or not.

It all matters in one self because not all do engaged into a particular stuff will surely turn into something and just like this one where buying up lootboxes and its not really that precise for them to presume on kids to become future gamblers just because they got involved into? You are right that this do also matter with proper parenting and also on ones self-discipline because buying out can either be just a result of curiosity and nothing less or some sort of gambling out that you do go yolo for it.It all matters into you if you do really treat it as a way of gambling but also young minds wont really
be bothered if they are making a spark to be come a gambler or not on that time.

It really depends on many things but yes, I don't think that all those kids buying those loot boxes games will turn into gambling addicts. But maybe the government is just preventing for possible effects on the kids later on. But for me, it will be more on the entertainment side, the element of surprise that you will get after opening the package. Now, it is up to the individual how he will behave later on and what characteristics he will develop on this activity.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 26, 2020, 02:56:19 PM
#48
Quote from: finaleshot2016 on June 26, 2020, 12:48:11 PM
I've been buying loot boxes when I was a kid but now I'm not into gambling and don't take it seriously, it's a matter of entertainment only. It still depends on how the parents or guardian will handle their children and I'm lucky that I learn self-discipline so I can avoid spending money on non-essential things.

I'm curious about this study of the UK where they conclude that buying loot boxes will make you a gambler soon. If their data or surveys were taken by old gamblers, I guess it's very inaccurate since there are no online games in early 2000 and loot boxes don't exist at that time. So how can they knew that kids will turn into gamblers if they buy something that has an unknown result? Same goes with loot boxes, it's RNG even in life, no one knows if you'll get hooked up in gambling or not.

It all matters in one self because not all do engaged into a particular stuff will surely turn into something and just like this one where buying up lootboxes and its not really that precise for them to presume on kids to become future gamblers just because they got involved into? You are right that this do also matter with proper parenting and also on ones self-discipline because buying out can either be just a result of curiosity and nothing less or some sort of gambling out that you do go yolo for it.It all matters into you if you do really treat it as a way of gambling but also young minds wont really
be bothered if they are making a spark to be come a gambler or not on that time.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 26, 2020, 12:48:11 PM
#47
I've been buying loot boxes when I was a kid but now I'm not into gambling and don't take it seriously, it's a matter of entertainment only. It still depends on how the parents or guardian will handle their children and I'm lucky that I learn self-discipline so I can avoid spending money on non-essential things.

I'm curious about this study of the UK where they conclude that buying loot boxes will make you a gambler soon. If their data or surveys were taken by old gamblers, I guess it's very inaccurate since there are no online games in early 2000 and loot boxes don't exist at that time. So how can they knew that kids will turn into gamblers if they buy something that has an unknown result? Same goes with loot boxes, it's RNG even in life, no one knows if you'll get hooked up in gambling or not.
plvbob0070
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 26, 2020, 10:57:14 AM
#46
Quote from: 20kevin20 on June 08, 2020, 10:19:02 AM
Quote from: plvbob0070 on June 08, 2020, 09:43:59 AM
I don't consider this as gambling because the players or the kids don't earn any money as a reward whenever they will spend money on that game. Because for me, gambling is risking something valuable in exchange for getting something valuable. But since they reward they will get will only be useful in that game, I don't think it's gambling. I mean a lot of games also offer rewards if you will spend money on that game.
You're right, it's not gambling - it's even worse. You spend cash to get fake currencies to receive in-game weapon skins or decals through a mechanism similar to gambling.. and can't even cash out. In other words, you lose any way you take it besides having some pixels on a game that will not be played anymore within 1-2 years. It's honestly horrible and so many children are spending too much money on it - think Fortnite.
I wonder how those kids get money to spend in a game? If it has the permission of their parents, I think it's fine since they allowed their kids but I don't think it's right for kids to get used to buying things for the sake of the game because it won't be a healthy habit. They might grow up thinking that it's always good to spend money on such things that can probably be one of the factors that they will learn gambling.

Just like what I have said before, parents should be responsible for what their kids are doing, especially in using gadgets. It's fine to spend on games if you are already capable of proving your own money for that, but since they are still a minor, they should avoid it.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 12, 2020, 09:04:35 PM
#45
If you are gambling you can lose everything with the money and all you are getting are experiences, or having entertained, but on loot games you are getting something out of your money, they should not consider it that way, it's part of the fun that are not aware of what you are going to get but I don;t consider this as a form of gambling, it's been this way ever since.
verita1
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 12, 2020, 08:38:40 PM
#44
I also see that here is a problem with the loot boxes feature that is very common in games today and that can cause early gambling addiction to children and young people. In particular, I teach my nephew that he can play his favorite games with limitations. I tell him that it is not possible to spend so much money on one of their games, it is true that children and young people have fun with them. But children must learn to be aware that they cannot waste money on games.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 12, 2020, 06:14:56 PM
#43
Quote from: shoreno on June 10, 2020, 10:26:50 PM
Quote from: crwth on June 10, 2020, 08:32:07 PM
I have never looked at loot boxes, like the ones in PUBG, as gambling, but it's definitely a risk. I just realized that I was gambling with those as well and in exchange for real money. I always looked at it as a privilege because I can afford it, but now I started to think it is definitely gambling. It blew my mind when I read this. Maybe I need to rethink my gaming purchases, LOL.

depends on what we think  . some think it as a gambling because they spend money to get random stuff while some didnt but they only  see it as a game  .  for me its not a kind of gambling because when you spend  , you can guarantee to get anything if you didnt get your desired item on the loot box but on gambling you often cant get your desired payout  .  i play on higher payouts in gambling , thats why i say that its hard for me to hit them but idk to some that plays on lower payouts   .
In general sense its just the same, it just masked out to be different since we are talking about opening loot boxes and literal gambling games but to think of

clearly then they do have the same scheme which i do consider for it to be a gamble too since you do expect for some price when opening up those boxes

and if you havent get on what you expect then for sure you would purchase another one.Its just really the same and if UK government do see this as a

method on increasing up taxes then its their choice but they do know that they are risking out their own citizens on a particular addiction.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 12, 2020, 01:25:10 PM
#42
Quote from: South Park on June 12, 2020, 10:49:30 AM
Quote from: arallmuus on June 08, 2020, 11:11:28 AM
Quote from: Juggy777 on June 08, 2020, 08:45:35 AM
-snipped-

Doesnt this could means the other way that the Government is actually trying to squeeze some money from the gaming industry?  Roll Eyes AFAIK any gambling site or classified as gambling needs to pay taxes to operate in UK. While it is true that some kids might be spending alot of their age, alot of grownup spend alot of money in loot boxes as well .

Anyway They could just change the loot boxes to avoid this so instead of loot boxes , player will get specific type of equipment for X price. That wont be classified as gambling again ( check the highlighted part )

Quote
Loot boxes allow players to spend money on in-game rewards such as special characters or equipment, without knowing what they will get.
While it is true that governments could be trying to squeeze more money out of the video game industry the truth is that this is clearly gambling, and if video games are going to offer gambling into their games then they are going to have to pay taxes like a casino does, that is what it is fair, however while the solution that you give is what any rational person will do I'm sure that video game companies are going to find a way to around that law by offering those loot boxes only for the game currency but they will allow you to buy that game currency for real money.

Thats one of the way or rather bann UK players so that they wont be able to purchase those loot boxes. However that means less income coming from UK. If the taxes that they need to pay is lower than their actual income from UK players, then they should proceed and pay

However the way I see thing is that UK is trying to squeeze alot of money from the game industry therefore I expect the there will be huge sum of taxes and at some extent, those games wont be able to be played in UK unless they pay those money
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 12, 2020, 10:49:30 AM
#41
Quote from: arallmuus on June 08, 2020, 11:11:28 AM
Quote from: Juggy777 on June 08, 2020, 08:45:35 AM
-snipped-

Doesnt this could means the other way that the Government is actually trying to squeeze some money from the gaming industry?  Roll Eyes AFAIK any gambling site or classified as gambling needs to pay taxes to operate in UK. While it is true that some kids might be spending alot of their age, alot of grownup spend alot of money in loot boxes as well .

Anyway They could just change the loot boxes to avoid this so instead of loot boxes , player will get specific type of equipment for X price. That wont be classified as gambling again ( check the highlighted part )

Quote
Loot boxes allow players to spend money on in-game rewards such as special characters or equipment, without knowing what they will get.
While it is true that governments could be trying to squeeze more money out of the video game industry the truth is that this is clearly gambling, and if video games are going to offer gambling into their games then they are going to have to pay taxes like a casino does, that is what it is fair, however while the solution that you give is what any rational person will do I'm sure that video game companies are going to find a way to around that law by offering those loot boxes only for the game currency but they will allow you to buy that game currency for real money.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 10:26:50 PM
#40
Quote from: crwth on June 10, 2020, 08:32:07 PM
I have never looked at loot boxes, like the ones in PUBG, as gambling, but it's definitely a risk. I just realized that I was gambling with those as well and in exchange for real money. I always looked at it as a privilege because I can afford it, but now I started to think it is definitely gambling. It blew my mind when I read this. Maybe I need to rethink my gaming purchases, LOL.

depends on what we think  . some think it as a gambling because they spend money to get random stuff while some didnt but they only  see it as a game  .  for me its not a kind of gambling because when you spend  , you can guarantee to get anything if you didnt get your desired item on the loot box but on gambling you often cant get your desired payout  .  i play on higher payouts in gambling , thats why i say that its hard for me to hit them but idk to some that plays on lower payouts   .
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 08:32:07 PM
#39
I have never looked at loot boxes, like the ones in PUBG, as gambling, but it's definitely a risk. I just realized that I was gambling with those as well and in exchange for real money. I always looked at it as a privilege because I can afford it, but now I started to think it is definitely gambling. It blew my mind when I read this. Maybe I need to rethink my gaming purchases, LOL.
Janation
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 08:29:40 PM
#38
Quote from: maydna on June 10, 2020, 08:11:32 PM
When it comes to discipline, that will be the hard things that people can do. Not all people will have the discipline that they will do for a long time because discipline needs that person to do the same thing every day. But if the discipline is for the kids, I am sure that the kids will have a chance to do that, and they can do that thing until they become mature. It is easier to teach kids about discipline than to teach discipline to adult people.

But I don't think that it is not bad to teach kids about gambling because I believe they are not ready to see the loss. We know that in gambling, the chance to get lost will be bigger than the win so that can affect the kid's mentality until they grow up. We need to guide them, take care of them, and always watch their growth so they will know about gambling at the right time.

The guidance of the parents is the secret here.

The discipline of the children is impossible without the guidance of their parents, that is why it is really important. When it comes to gambling, I don't think we should even talk about it to kids since they are more focussed on playing rather than knowing what's wrong or right. They will know what is wrong and right as they grow older with the parent's guidance. We should not just focus our worries on gambling since there are a lot of other factors that could mainly affect our kids and other children.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 08:11:32 PM
#37
Quote from: Latviand on June 10, 2020, 05:22:16 AM
Quote from: maydna on June 09, 2020, 01:01:10 AM
~snip~

The discipline should start at home, the parents should guide their kids to much more important things like studies and how to become a wise person. It is not bad to teach their kids how to gamble as long as they will inform them what are the advantages and disadvantages of it in human lives. People are forgetting the essence of gambling that's why there are people who are getting addicted to it. I know that a kid's future depends on his surroundings but they have their own choice and free will.

If he want to spend his money or allowance in to a game where he can enjoy it for the rest of his life, that's a memory for him. We should always guide them on the things that they should learn and let them become well-informed about the good and bad things in the world.

When it comes to discipline, that will be the hard things that people can do. Not all people will have the discipline that they will do for a long time because discipline needs that person to do the same thing every day. But if the discipline is for the kids, I am sure that the kids will have a chance to do that, and they can do that thing until they become mature. It is easier to teach kids about discipline than to teach discipline to adult people.

But I don't think that it is not bad to teach kids about gambling because I believe they are not ready to see the loss. We know that in gambling, the chance to get lost will be bigger than the win so that can affect the kid's mentality until they grow up. We need to guide them, take care of them, and always watch their growth so they will know about gambling at the right time.
avikz
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 09:34:13 AM
#36
Lol! That's what I call failed Beaurocratic structure where the right hand doesn't know what left hand is doing. If I have to go by their example, then investing in stocks should be banned because there is a chance element present. Investing in cryptocurrency should be banned as well because the price is so volatile and there are chances to loose money!

They should also ban Avengers films because there is a chance that kids will try such tricks at home. Lol!

If the upbringing of a child is taken care nicely, the chances of them becoming problem gambler is very less. Banning certain things wouldn't help at all!
rhomelmabini
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 09:03:10 AM
#35
Quote from: arallmuus on June 08, 2020, 11:11:28 AM

Quote from: tokeweed on June 08, 2020, 09:55:24 AM
I think lots of people would be interested in the news concerning gambling in these parts.  And the gambling section is already very cluttered with gambling news threads.

Hence this is why this section exist

Quote from: tokeweed on June 08, 2020, 09:55:24 AM
If you don't want to start it, can I?  Smiley

Would be such a messy thread if in one thread people throw in 10 random gambling news then everyone just state their opinion without actually addressing to which topic they are actually commenting
News or not I think it deserved to be discussed here on the gambling discussion board unless we see a gambling news board where we can see these kind of posts. It's isn't prohibited to make a thread like that and I think that's a good suggestion. If there's no bump for over a day then you can decide to bump it on a new and fresh news about gambling especially when it concern to crypto but I guess any different kind of gambling news will do.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 08:43:13 AM
#34
Quote from: dothebeats on June 10, 2020, 12:43:55 AM
It's not really the gaming industry's fault if a child will gamble their way up to their special items or skins. Perhaps the parents should reinforce an iron hand when it comes to the child's gaming habits and also prevent them from using their credit cards unsolicited. Most of the cases wherein a child is able to gamble is because their parents' card is just lying around and can be readily used. Anyway, if parents would allow their children to actually play, but limit their hours, perhaps this could work. Or games should be more strict in terms of spending real money for in-game items. They can even go so far as to imposing strict KYC to prevent people from spending money without getting their info verified but maybe that's just me.
This would particularly target out in parenting concerns and as said this would really be needed some sort of strict discipline kind of way on handling out your kids and shouldnt really tolerate
on spending into things which arent really that worth to put on.

Ive been into the experience on playing a game and purchasing tons when it comes to in-game items etc. but it didnt really come to a point that i do become a gambler or some sort.I do still have that
kind of habit but i do know on how to handle it out.

For hit loot boxes games in UK then it would really be just a similar scenario.If government do allow it then the only solution can really be only found on their parents hands.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 08:26:46 AM
#33
What can they do about it? Ban the game? Limit the game to players or gamers to ages that are legal for them to gamble? IF they will be banning the game, these children will still find a way to access it may be using a VPN or proxies. They can't just limit the ages of these players since these children can just lie so that they could still play the game.
Maus0728
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 08:09:10 AM
#32
Quote from: 20kevin20 on June 08, 2020, 10:19:02 AM
You spend cash to get fake currencies to receive in-game weapon skins or decals through a mechanism similar to gambling.. and can't even cash out.
Business is business I think! These are the strategies of the company to increase their sales. It is more likely a psychological play wherein buying those upgrades or loot-boxes make kids feel a lot cooler and stronger.
It would be better to install apk modded application with lots of money in an old device to decrease chances of getting malwares. This is only applicable for kids who are into gaming. International strategy based games such as DOTA, LOL, MMORPG that is usually played by adults are impossible to control.
Janation
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 06:42:21 AM
#31
Quote from: ralle14 on June 10, 2020, 06:03:51 AM
Quote from: Janation on June 10, 2020, 01:11:37 AM
These players or children that are buying these loot boxes are not unaware that they are already gambling. Most of the games right now have the loot boxes mechanics even popular games like CSGO, Dota2,  and Fortnite which is so popular these days especially Dota2 with the Batlle Pass now in the market. People are buying levels to get free arcanas and other features of the BP and here are also those treasures that they would get which falls under the loot boxes. Will they ban these games? Age limit? I don't think they won't be able to stop these children to play it.
I agree it won't be stopped since it's so easy to create multiple accounts or use a different country of origin to bypass the restrictions. On the other hand steam allows players to buy the best items from their market or trade so they don't have to waste more time with loot boxes unlike the other platforms where you have to spend more and just get tons of duplicate items.

VPN is a thing and I think they don't know that.

Steam can get out of there but there are a lot of other platforms that still stick with loot boxes so they could make more money from their players of their users. I remembered a YouTube video where they are exploiting how expensive in-game items are in this game which is so popular with kids. Most of those games though are from Gacha games.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 06:03:51 AM
#30
Quote from: aioc on June 10, 2020, 01:17:25 AM
I agree that there should be strict rules and classification on tose loot boxes, my son always money to buy those loot boxes so he can upgrade and play effectively on his games, if they classified it to gambling it will be big revenue losses for the gaming industry because it will be in strict parental guidance or they will not allow kids to play those games.
They'll lose some revenue but I don't think it's going to be a lot since it's just one country. Anyway the rules aren't official yet and if it's approved in the future they could always make some changes on how they distribute their cosmetics.

Quote from: Janation on June 10, 2020, 01:11:37 AM
These players or children that are buying these loot boxes are not unaware that they are already gambling. Most of the games right now have the loot boxes mechanics even popular games like CSGO, Dota2,  and Fortnite which is so popular these days especially Dota2 with the Batlle Pass now in the market. People are buying levels to get free arcanas and other features of the BP and here are also those treasures that they would get which falls under the loot boxes. Will they ban these games? Age limit? I don't think they won't be able to stop these children to play it.
I agree it won't be stopped since it's so easy to create multiple accounts or use a different country of origin to bypass the restrictions. On the other hand steam allows players to buy the best items from their market or trade so they don't have to waste more time with loot boxes unlike the other platforms where you have to spend more and just get tons of duplicate items.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 05:22:16 AM
#29
Quote from: maydna on June 09, 2020, 01:01:10 AM
I think the games were not wrong because their purposes are not trying to turn UK kids to become a gambler in the future. It was the parent's jobs always to watch and take care of their kids, so they don't turn become a gambler.

We cannot blame the similar and the other gambling games because we know that gambling is not for kids and if somehow, the kids become a gambler, that will be a responsibility from people who lived with that kids. Kids need to be controlled and watched, so they don't choose the wrong way in the future, and that will be a job for their parents and the other member of the family.

The discipline should start at home, the parents should guide their kids to much more important things like studies and how to become a wise person. It is not bad to teach their kids how to gamble as long as they will inform them what are the advantages and disadvantages of it in human lives. People are forgetting the essence of gambling that's why there are people who are getting addicted to it. I know that a kid's future depends on his surroundings but they have their own choice and free will.

If he want to spend his money or allowance in to a game where he can enjoy it for the rest of his life, that's a memory for him. We should always guide them on the things that they should learn and let them become well-informed about the good and bad things in the world.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 05:18:15 AM
#28
Quote from: swogerino on June 10, 2020, 01:01:30 AM
I like this idea from UK government.Many game developers offer free games with optional buy ins during the game and is exactly this element which I think is correct to be stopped up to a certain level.While these loot boxes may not directly turn the kids into future gamblers it is one sure thing that they affect the kids neural system for the bad when they can’t get past a certain level in the game and become frustrated.
^Definitely right, this idea of the country in the UK shows that their young age people must be focus to study and should not be involved in gambling activity. If the government forces to prohibit this kind of business probably will keep those kid not to turn into gamblers while at an early age. Parents should be thankful of this implementation because they know that this is good for their children's future. Because kids nowadays will always find ways just to have what they want and most of them in this generation is hard-headed did not follow what their parents advise that for their own good.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 05:17:11 AM
#27
I don't know about look box, I haven't not played it ever, but if I can hold to the simple things you just said about loot boxes, should be see CHANCE  now as gambling, -a youth can fill an online form to getting into a big college in UK but no matter how strong their grades are CHANCE expected- chance is part of life and not gambling, the kids can even be exited to find out what they are giving.
Ucy
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 04:45:29 AM
#26
Gamers should be spending little amount or amount they can afford to lose on games that truely involve chances/probability. Afterall there are "treasures" to be won in such games, that is why I don't recommend banning or even classifying them as gambling... gambling in this case depends on the risk the bettors/gamers are taking. If the risk is too much(very risky), it then becomes gambling. Very risky includes, bad/violent games, spending too much time/money on bets etc
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 02:49:21 AM
#25
Quote from: aioc on June 10, 2020, 01:17:25 AM
I agree that there should be strict rules and classification on tose loot boxes, my son always money to buy those loot boxes so he can upgrade and play effectively on his games, if they classified it to gambling it will be big revenue losses for the gaming industry because it will be in strict parental guidance or they will not allow kids to play those games.

Well lucky that my sons are no longer inlove in loot boxes because they are now playing PUBG games so i am safer with this issue.

But lets face that being parents we must be always looking towards what games our children is playing because it is in our jurisdiction being parents to tell them which is good or not specially if this is involving some kind of gambling activities.
aioc
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 01:17:25 AM
#24
I agree that there should be strict rules and classification on tose loot boxes, my son always money to buy those loot boxes so he can upgrade and play effectively on his games, if they classified it to gambling it will be big revenue losses for the gaming industry because it will be in strict parental guidance or they will not allow kids to play those games.
Janation
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 01:11:37 AM
#23
Its been in a lot of articles and it is good that some governments are making a move from it.

These players or children that are buying these loot boxes are not unaware that they are already gambling. Most of the games right now have the loot boxes mechanics even popular games like CSGO, Dota2,  and Fortnite which is so popular these days especially Dota2 with the Batlle Pass now in the market. People are buying levels to get free arcanas and other features of the BP and here are also those treasures that they would get which falls under the loot boxes. Will they ban these games? Age limit? I don't think they won't be able to stop these children to play it.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 01:01:30 AM
#22
I like this idea from UK government.Many game developers offer free games with optional buy ins during the game and is exactly this element which I think is correct to be stopped up to a certain level.While these loot boxes may not directly turn the kids into future gamblers it is one sure thing that they affect the kids neural system for the bad when they can’t get past a certain level in the game and become frustrated.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 12:57:07 AM
#21
Quote from: dothebeats on June 10, 2020, 12:43:55 AM
It's not really the gaming industry's fault if a child will gamble their way up to their special items or skins. Perhaps the parents should reinforce an iron hand when it comes to the child's gaming habits and also prevent them from using their credit cards unsolicited. Most of the cases wherein a child is able to gamble is because their parents' card is just lying around and can be readily used. Anyway, if parents would allow their children to actually play, but limit their hours, perhaps this could work. Or games should be more strict in terms of spending real money for in-game items. They can even go so far as to imposing strict KYC to prevent people from spending money without getting their info verified but maybe that's just me.

i like the idea of implementing a kyc to games that have loot boxes or in app purchase because that can be the only way to prevent kids from using thier parents cc and bank accounts but we still have a problem , what about the adults ? not just kids but adults are also adicted to it . 

this is not the fault of the gaming company because they are only doing it to earn  but this is only a game and they shouldnt make it as simillar to gambling in the form of loot boxes .
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 10, 2020, 12:43:55 AM
#20
It's not really the gaming industry's fault if a child will gamble their way up to their special items or skins. Perhaps the parents should reinforce an iron hand when it comes to the child's gaming habits and also prevent them from using their credit cards unsolicited. Most of the cases wherein a child is able to gamble is because their parents' card is just lying around and can be readily used. Anyway, if parents would allow their children to actually play, but limit their hours, perhaps this could work. Or games should be more strict in terms of spending real money for in-game items. They can even go so far as to imposing strict KYC to prevent people from spending money without getting their info verified but maybe that's just me.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 09, 2020, 11:13:26 PM
#19
Quote from: Genemind on June 09, 2020, 01:18:04 AM
Whether there are  no rules or laws to abide in regards to gambling children's early hobbies, mentality, vices, and etc. all depends on how parents teach and guide them as they grow. I am exposed to gambling as I grow with my family who are really gambling addicts, but with proper guidance, I didn't develop any gambling addiction or problem. Children should be thought about the value of money, how hard to earn them and the importance of knowing how to habdle finance at young age. Being a responsible parent at young age, where growth and adaptation is really critical is a must. Even with a law governing or preventing children from having gambling issues at young age, without proper parental guidance this law will not do much.
I agree with that. Maybe the government don't want to see the young kids become a gambler when they grow up so they will make regulations to control that. But as you say we need to teach and guide them, and we do not need to introduce gambling to them because, in their ages, they only want to play and have fun while they learn many things. Maybe the government needs to check on every parent who has kids and see how they educate their children so that can be a consideration for the government to make a law for gambling.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 09, 2020, 06:04:07 AM
#18
Quote from: slaman29 on June 09, 2020, 01:23:56 AM
I for one heartily support any move to ban loot boxes, or in fact any kind of pay to win concept, which is really the bane of all gaming. I'm not against paying. I think people should still pay to play, otherwise game developers have no income, but the whole idea of lootboxes and micro payments is really turning kids into addicts. They actually do steal and lie to get money to get those, I know it happens to my young cousins!

Adult men also do it when they have nothing else to bet. First, they sell their properties. And when there is nothing to sell, they steal, and the next thing you knew they already sold their mother's corpse just to have something to bet.   Kids understood the concept of risking in the game like this lootbox. Its just the start of the habit till they eventually grow to bet more and forget school in the end.

Reid
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 09, 2020, 05:44:56 AM
#17
Quote from: slaman29 on June 09, 2020, 01:23:56 AM
I for one heartily support any move to ban loot boxes, or in fact any kind of pay to win concept, which is really the bane of all gaming. I'm not against paying. I think people should still pay to play, otherwise game developers have no income, but the whole idea of lootboxes and micro payments is really turning kids into addicts. They actually do steal and lie to get money to get those, I know it happens to my young cousins!

What I don't like now is the concept of pay to be the strongest.  Grin
I have played some game that had good styles which can still balance the game without superpowers.
Although they are giving VIP features to enhance your speed in-game.
Albion is one of that, but it was a long time ago. I think they are now free to play.

Stay with the VIP feature. Keep the game where newbies won't be left in the dark. I think that could make the game be played longer.
Those loot boxes are not a good idea.
Let them grind too using events for more fun. Not just opening boxes the whole day.  Grin
peter0425
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 09, 2020, 01:30:48 AM
#16
Quote from: samcrypto on June 08, 2020, 08:59:20 AM
Probably profit is not their priority on this matter, they just want to protect the Children and to prevent those abuse developer to collect money on a silly games.

Well, parents should guide their own Children at the first place so they will not ended up a broken gambler. In my place, there’s a lot of game addict and most of them are Children who spend the rest of the day playing with their phones. Its really alarming, and this kind of government action is good as long as the intention is to protect the players, developer should also be more concern to the players and not just about collecting money.

Got your point and that is correct,Parents must be responsible about what path their children must go,they need to at least focus about the behavior of their children regarding gambling because The government are doing their part to prevent kids to become another future gamblers.

and this is a good initiative from their government and must be implemented in other country as well.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 09, 2020, 01:23:56 AM
#15
I for one heartily support any move to ban loot boxes, or in fact any kind of pay to win concept, which is really the bane of all gaming. I'm not against paying. I think people should still pay to play, otherwise game developers have no income, but the whole idea of lootboxes and micro payments is really turning kids into addicts. They actually do steal and lie to get money to get those, I know it happens to my young cousins!
Genemind
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 09, 2020, 01:18:04 AM
#14
Whether there are  no rules or laws to abide in regards to gambling children's early hobbies, mentality, vices, and etc. all depends on how parents teach and guide them as they grow. I am exposed to gambling as I grow with my family who are really gambling addicts, but with proper guidance, I didn't develop any gambling addiction or problem. Children should be thought about the value of money, how hard to earn them and the importance of knowing how to habdle finance at young age. Being a responsible parent at young age, where growth and adaptation is really critical is a must. Even with a law governing or preventing children from having gambling issues at young age, without proper parental guidance this law will not do much.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 09, 2020, 01:12:11 AM
#13


Almost look like a kid's game but with the element of gambling. Just a surprise that they'd gonna get every loot box. This could start a gambling habit for kids indeed.
I wasn't aware of this loot box until this news. Good for the UK government.

Quote from: arallmuus on June 08, 2020, 11:11:28 AM

Quote from: tokeweed on June 08, 2020, 09:55:24 AM
If you don't want to start it, can I?  Smiley

Would be such a messy thread if in one thread people throw in 10 random gambling news then everyone just state their opinion without actually addressing to which topic they are actually commenting

I'm also in favor of not creating a thread all of the news, it will be a mess when everyone doesn't really quote which they are replying to. Most of the users will just post in the thread and anyone reading a message will have to trace back which post he refers to.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 09, 2020, 01:05:02 AM
#12
Quote from: maydna on June 09, 2020, 01:01:10 AM
I think the games were not wrong because their purposes are not trying to turn UK kids to become a gambler in the future. It was the parent's jobs always to watch and take care of their kids, so they don't turn become a gambler.
You said it right, in every game, there is always a warning and these days, anyone can play online games and not just kids.
We can also use gambling as a good example, though most gambling sites now put a warning in the site that in order to gamble, you need to be 18 years old and above but if a minor would play and will disregard the warning, he can still play, so I agree that it should be the parents responsibility.

Quote from: maydna on June 09, 2020, 01:01:10 AM
We cannot blame the similar and the other gambling games because we know that gambling is not for kids and if somehow, the kids become a gambler, that will be a responsibility from people who lived with that kids. Kids need to be controlled and watched, so they don't choose the wrong way in the future, and that will be a job for their parents and the other member of the family.

Blaming a game or a business for the failure of the parents to monitor their kids is wrong, so we have the same opinion and stance on this matter.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 09, 2020, 01:01:10 AM
#11
I think the games were not wrong because their purposes are not trying to turn UK kids to become a gambler in the future. It was the parent's jobs always to watch and take care of their kids, so they don't turn become a gambler.

We cannot blame the similar and the other gambling games because we know that gambling is not for kids and if somehow, the kids become a gambler, that will be a responsibility from people who lived with that kids. Kids need to be controlled and watched, so they don't choose the wrong way in the future, and that will be a job for their parents and the other member of the family.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 08, 2020, 06:42:38 PM
#10
Quote from: tokeweed on June 08, 2020, 09:55:24 AM
Hey Juggy.  Just a suggestion.  Why don't you start a thread titled 'Random Gambling News' and post them in one thread.  I think lots of people would be interested in the news concerning gambling in these parts.  And the gambling section is already very cluttered with gambling news threads.
That's a good suggestion too but it's up to OP.
IMO, putting a specific title on a certain news would also help us to monitor the thread for a specific news only, as long the discussion is on topic, I think it's not a problem, but then again, that's your initiative, you can make your own and just let the mods to decide on what they do.

personally, I like this kind of information thread than those general questions or topic that we have discuss in the past already and we are just getting redundant answers.

Sorry to butt in though I'm not ask, but I just give my opinion anyway.


Going back to the topic, yes, that is correct, for me, what is important is our children than and their future, so they should not start gambling while they are still a kid. Based on my personal experience, I have a kid who always plays for Mobile Legend and she ask some money to me to buy some "SKINS", so that might drive some kids to steal money if their parents won't give them as they want to remain competitive in the game and likes to have a good rank. 

ps. I am not a full time online gamer, so I am not so familiar with the terms.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 08, 2020, 06:20:17 PM
#9
Not a real gambling though many are spending money just to buy the things that they want to improve their characters and some games already have their own casinos like the GTA. This is good because it can prevent the Children from spending too much on the things that they don’t really need.

Quote from: Reid on June 08, 2020, 10:51:57 AM
I was just going to ask what loot boxes are until I read more.  Grin
Thank you for not forgetting to input the meaning of it.

So, it is more like a mystery box?
Does this happen in an MMORPG game?
It's addictive opening those kinds of items. It could be compared also to OVB of Ragnarok. Better because it was looted from monsters.
If not, buy it with zenny's. (in-game money)
Those are the items available on the market place of the specific games where you have to spend more if you want precious items. Ragnarok is lit, its good but you don’t actually need to spend that much on a game.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 08, 2020, 12:57:31 PM
#8
Quote from: Juggy777 on June 08, 2020, 08:45:35 AM
The Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (UK) will start gathering evidence to classify loot boxes game’s under the gambling laws, as they feel that these games are turning UK kids into future gamblers.

In case you don’t know what loot boxes are then in simple terms they’re upgrades that you can buy after you have installed the game, but you won’t know what kind of upgrades you’ll get, hence there’s an element of chance involved.

Lastly if UK decides to reclassify loot boxes game’s under the gambling laws then they’re going to hurt a industry worth $23 billion, but I feel that they’ll right to do it as it’ll help many kids who otherwise would have developed gambling addiction symptoms at a young age.


Gaming sites or business don;t want to classify their games as a form of gambling because no prize money is involved but kids and adults are spending to get those upgrades because they need these to beef up their games, they might change their program so they will not be classified as gambling or they will lose clients and markets.

If this is a multi billion dollar industry, the revenue will dwindle because of the new classification.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 08, 2020, 11:11:28 AM
#7
Quote from: Juggy777 on June 08, 2020, 08:45:35 AM
-snipped-

Doesnt this could means the other way that the Government is actually trying to squeeze some money from the gaming industry?  Roll Eyes AFAIK any gambling site or classified as gambling needs to pay taxes to operate in UK. While it is true that some kids might be spending alot of their age, alot of grownup spend alot of money in loot boxes as well .

Anyway They could just change the loot boxes to avoid this so instead of loot boxes , player will get specific type of equipment for X price. That wont be classified as gambling again ( check the highlighted part )

Quote from: tokeweed on June 08, 2020, 09:55:24 AM
I think lots of people would be interested in the news concerning gambling in these parts.  And the gambling section is already very cluttered with gambling news threads.

Hence this is why this section exist

Quote from: tokeweed on June 08, 2020, 09:55:24 AM
If you don't want to start it, can I?  Smiley

Would be such a messy thread if in one thread people throw in 10 random gambling news then everyone just state their opinion without actually addressing to which topic they are actually commenting
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 08, 2020, 10:51:57 AM
#6
I was just going to ask what loot boxes are until I read more.  Grin
Thank you for not forgetting to input the meaning of it.

So, it is more like a mystery box?
Does this happen in an MMORPG game?
It's addictive opening those kinds of items. It could be compared also to OVB of Ragnarok. Better because it was looted from monsters.
If not, buy it with zenny's. (in-game money)
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 08, 2020, 10:46:03 AM
#5
Quote from: plvbob0070 on June 08, 2020, 09:43:59 AM
I don't consider this as gambling because the players or the kids don't earn any money as a reward whenever they will spend money on that game. Because for me, gambling is risking something valuable in exchange for getting something valuable. But since they reward they will get will only be useful in that game, I don't think it's gambling. I mean a lot of games also offer rewards if you will spend money on that game.

But if this game is mostly for kids and minors, I don't think they should also require such offers like that because where do kids get the money? However, I also understand that the government is just trying to protect the kids in any future harm if this game is really addicting. Parents also play an important role and they should be the first ones to guide and monitor their children when using gadgets.

Each person can have their opinion but to me this is clearly gambling, they are using their money in something which is basically a game of chance and even if the reward is not that great for people like us that could not be interested in the game itself it is for the kids to the point that they are willing to spend money in order to try to get a particular item or upgrade, now if this mechanic did not brought a lot of revenue then most likely governments will leave it alone but the fact that it is generating such great revenue as the OP states in fact plays against it.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 08, 2020, 10:19:02 AM
#4
Quote from: samcrypto on June 08, 2020, 08:59:20 AM
Well, parents should guide their own Children at the first place so they will not ended up a broken gambler. In my place, there’s a lot of game addict and most of them are Children who spend the rest of the day playing with their phones. Its really alarming, and this kind of government action is good as long as the intention is to protect the players, developer should also be more concern to the players and not just about collecting money.
Parents probably don't even know that the most recent top-tier games have turned into money-stripping pay-to-win ones. The GTA V Online casino speaks for itself - this is a problem most parents have no idea of unless they spend their time trying to understand what kind of games their kids are playing. You have to keep up with the gaming world to know what's up with a game system.

CoD: Modern Warfare, the recent free-to-play one, has this system of loot crates and being f2p probably brings in a lot of money .. mostly from kids borrowing their parents' credit cards to get some "games". Good to know that a government has had their attention on these systems because they've basically camouflaged gambling into these stupid crates that most of the times only leave kids disappointed anyway.


Quote from: plvbob0070 on June 08, 2020, 09:43:59 AM
I don't consider this as gambling because the players or the kids don't earn any money as a reward whenever they will spend money on that game. Because for me, gambling is risking something valuable in exchange for getting something valuable. But since they reward they will get will only be useful in that game, I don't think it's gambling. I mean a lot of games also offer rewards if you will spend money on that game.
You're right, it's not gambling - it's even worse. You spend cash to get fake currencies to receive in-game weapon skins or decals through a mechanism similar to gambling.. and can't even cash out. In other words, you lose any way you take it besides having some pixels on a game that will not be played anymore within 1-2 years. It's honestly horrible and so many children are spending too much money on it - think Fortnite.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 08, 2020, 09:55:24 AM
#3
Hey Juggy.  Just a suggestion.  Why don't you start a thread titled 'Random Gambling News' and post them in one thread.  I think lots of people would be interested in the news concerning gambling in these parts.  And the gambling section is already very cluttered with gambling news threads.

If you don't want to start it, can I?  Smiley
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 08, 2020, 09:43:59 AM
#2
I don't consider this as gambling because the players or the kids don't earn any money as a reward whenever they will spend money on that game. Because for me, gambling is risking something valuable in exchange for getting something valuable. But since they reward they will get will only be useful in that game, I don't think it's gambling. I mean a lot of games also offer rewards if you will spend money on that game.

But if this game is mostly for kids and minors, I don't think they should also require such offers like that because where do kids get the money? However, I also understand that the government is just trying to protect the kids in any future harm if this game is really addicting. Parents also play an important role and they should be the first ones to guide and monitor their children when using gadgets.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 08, 2020, 08:59:20 AM
#2
Probably profit is not their priority on this matter, they just want to protect the Children and to prevent those abuse developer to collect money on a silly games.

Well, parents should guide their own Children at the first place so they will not ended up a broken gambler. In my place, there’s a lot of game addict and most of them are Children who spend the rest of the day playing with their phones. Its really alarming, and this kind of government action is good as long as the intention is to protect the players, developer should also be more concern to the players and not just about collecting money.
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Re: UK rules will hit loot boxes games hard - as they’re turning kids into gamblers.
June 08, 2020, 08:45:35 AM
#1
The Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (UK) will start gathering evidence to classify loot boxes game’s under the gambling laws, as they feel that these games are turning UK kids into future gamblers.

In case you don’t know what loot boxes are then in simple terms they’re upgrades that you can buy after you have installed the game, but you won’t know what kind of upgrades you’ll get, hence there’s an element of chance involved.

Lastly if UK decides to reclassify loot boxes game’s under the gambling laws then they’re going to hurt a industry worth $23 billion, but I feel that they’ll right to do it as it’ll help many kids who otherwise would have developed gambling addiction symptoms at a young age.

Quote

Loot boxes allow players to spend money on in-game rewards such as special characters or equipment, without knowing what they will get.


Quote

Games with loot box mechanics have long proven controversial, with critics and gamers alleging similarities to gambling and warning of their appeal to younger audiences. Some players have shared stories of their own descents into unwittingly addictive behaviour, including the UK player who discovered via GDPR that he had spent over $10,000 in just two years.



Sources:

https://www.theguardian.com/games/2020/jun/07/uk-could-class-loot-boxes-as-gambling-to-protect-children

https://www.theguardian.com/games/2018/aug/17/video-game-loot-boxes-addictive-and-a-form-of-simulated-gambling-senate-inquiry-told
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