Topic: Ultimatum style econ model to drive Internet prices down to negative for routers (Read 728 times)

And how is this related to Bitcoin and economics?

Abolition of state, money, ownership, and tribalism would beget an end of that “ridiculous[ness].” As well, it seems to be the more elegant of these machinations.

As a strong believer in free markets, I think ISPs can be motivated to rent our wireless routers to reach our neighbors who save money by not operating routers. Here's a way to transition from the current economic model of ISPs charge us for using our own routers and prevent us from routing to our neighbors, to ISPs feel privileged to reach our neighbors through our reasonably priced rental fees for our routers, and people would be motivated to buy higher speed and farther reaching routers to bring in more business to ISPs. We all want to move more product and take our fair cut of the profits. But an unusual level of cooperation may be needed at least in each small area, to get it started. Trust your neighbors greed to overcome their dislike of cooperation of fewer people than Dunbar's Number. Only small groups of people in local areas, per router, need cooperate and predict eachother's charitable actions. It could be called a violation of ISP contract, but paradoxically music piracy still exists (which is not what I'm proposing). We should obey the laws the majority of people somehow agree on, but a contract is not a law, and the ISPs are known to "slack off" or "look the other way" when people dont password protect their wireless routers and their neighbors use that instead of buying routing service for their own house. I am not proposing the "stealing" of any bandwidth since it is commonly offered in "unlimited" amounts, and prices should adjust when bandwidth amounts per router increase while number of routers decreases.

It is rediculous that everyone should have to buy (or rent) their own wireless router.

But when operating an open "free Internet" router that your neighbors may connect into and use part of the bandwidth you paid for (totalling less than "unlimited"), the main problem is how to get them to pay for it (which in time would be reflected in ISPs charges to you as a function of actual cost more than what they can get away with charging you). I propose the following ultimatum style deal to your neighbors all together...

Each router operator will announce to their neighbors that if some minimum amount of money arrives into a certain account or cash into their hand, in total from all their neighbors, who may each choose to pay nothing or pay different amounts, then your router will remain not password protected until consuming the amount of bandwidth you have paid for (in most cases "unlimited", or paying per bandwidth if ISPs choose to charge that way). If the neighbors do not together put that much money into your hand/accounts/etc then the router is password protected until that much is paid. You may also negotiate penalties like "no open internet for 3 days after its not paid on the nth day of the month" or other late fees, or just "give me 20 extra dollars this month or it goes password protected"... Negotiation is an open ended game played fairly by those most skilled. I recommend setting this "minimum amount" paid to you as double your cost from the ISP for the service of that bandwidth, the profit being the ISPs payment to you for renting the use of your router. Toward honest deals, each router operator could call their ISP and say that continued operation of their service to you is agreement to your terms and overrides any previous agreements contradicting it, and the person mostly mindlessly talking on their phone to you will probably choose to sell you service anyways. Dont underestimate the force of laziness to agree to business terms without thinking about them.

Either your neighbors, some of them, will put in total that amount of money to you and save money on their own Internet routing service, or the router would be password protected for some time. It is to each of their selfish advantage to buy part of your "unlimited bandwidth" at a lower price than their own excessive bandwidth of the same amount. A fraction of infinity is still infinity.

This would probably need the cooperation of many people across a country doing this at once. People who get in early, by buying longer range routers and offering such an ultimatum-style deal to their neighbors, will be more likely to get Internet for negative price (ISP rents the use of your router) than others who end up connecting to somebody elses router.

We should be honest and fair, not try to bankrupt the major ISPs, which is bad for everyone, instead just reduce their near monopoly (oligarchy) to a free market which takes most of their customers by paradigm shifting the model of "flat rate" bandwidth in "unlimited" amounts to a more businesslike use of basic economics. It is literally in the first college class on economics to price using marginal cost and marginal profit. Unlimited service is a recipe for bankruptcy if we take them up on their offer.

Economic warfare, you might loosely call it, is better than the violent and deceptive kind. Its actually thought to be a good thing in many cases, called competition if not taken too far.

If we think about this and coordinate such "violations of contract" in where routing is to and from (which sounds like censoring to me, telling us where we may send the bits we pay for "unlimited" amounts of), openly for everyone to know eachothers plans, then we can all pay less for Internet service or be paid for the rental of our wireless routers. Learn to work together, like wallstreet does in some ways. I dont want your money in that way. I want fair payment for what I offer. Those billions of dollars of unfair near monopoly profits by ISPs happen because Divide And Conquor is a great strategy, as those who have divided us know.

Legally ISPs are not responsible for the data moving through routers, which would be impossible to completely understand, similar to how you cant sue the air for sounds of peoples voices moving through it even if they are talking about bad things.

How might we go about this? A superior force doesnt need to hide the fact that they plan to change the balance of power, as long as many people do it together and equally, more or less as such a meme spreads. A superior force doesnt normally use violence since it would damage valuable things. Sun Tzu was a peaceful man whenever he could be. He negotiated. He let his former enemy work with him, going forward, since they were unfairly influenced. Laws and contracts deserve respect of those who agree to them, but cutting off access to all sources of Internet routing except those you must agree to not run a server or reroute to others is too close to "under duress" like selling a boat to someone stranded in the middle of the ocean for monopoly prices. Getting Internet service for a negative price, as rental fee for your router, could have a strong effect on motivation, especially to the unemployed.

Kind of humorous and scientific and not likely to have any legal effect, but eventually the world may come to its senses about what is space and time...
To most ISPs, thank you for your generous offer of "unlimited" bandwidth which we normally waste even though our neighbors are, in an overly technical physics context, actually inside our house as the wireless signal has elapsed no time when it reaches our neighbors. A nanosecond is about 1 foot in units of lightseconds, and someone may (probably to no effect but would be interesting and I believe actually true) request that the courts prove their house is 3 dimensional and therefore the PBrane emitted by their wireless router as light is in their neighbors house while not being in your own house. Of course this would not be of much legal effect, but eventually as Internet progresses, the law stating that interest rates as a function of time are in absolute time even while transactions happen across where light takes many many computing cycles to cross, and that a radio signal is not a dimension of its own, requires that everyone be at a certain place and certain time which contracts may require. There was once a law that pi is exactly 3, but that doesnt make it true. I dont really expect this path of thought to go anywhere for many years, but I strongly object to the claim that there is exactly 1 past and 1 future despite the frequent disagreements of what happened by people who were supposedly there. Did they just remember wrong, or in some cases did both things actually happen? If it is violation of contract for neighbors to connect into an open router, consuming bandwidth paid for in "unlimited" amounts within a certain volume of space, then I'd like a translation of this commonly believed definition of space into the coordinate system where the supposed violation happened, which is in the radio wave. It is equally true that the 3 dimensions are in the radio wave, as the wave is in the 3 dimensions, and I would appreciate it if people would keep their religious beliefs that we are primarily 3 dimensional to themself or to those willing to believe as they do. Your 3 dimensions may be trespassing in my radio wave, but I'm sure you see it the other direction. Not to be all theoretical abstraction with no practical connection to the world, I think that based on radio waves in phase sync being lower energy state than waves out of sync, that a circle of some kind of AM radio receivers/transmitters orbiting Earth and each near 2 others, may detect and be able to push on the slight curve of space between the difference in a straightest path (geodesic) compared to an acceleration of radio wave 1 direction more than the other in such a circle, which I think may mine gravity waves but in such small amounts that the energy used to broadcast to eachother is far more wasted, but theres a small chance it could get some kind of inductor effect going (like lightning accelerates more lightning on the same path) so the omnidirectional AM transmitters/receivers would be less in all those directions and more inducted along the circle, aka PBrane. Not the main subject here, but thats what I mean about radio waves being their own dimension.