Topic: Unarmed teen shot by cops for a sandwich (Read 3160 times)

This is what I was referring to

I wasn't implying he deserved it at all, if that's what you thought I did.  It was ludicrous, the officer shot like five rounds at him.  I didn't see what you're referring to.

Don't forget the kid who "shot himself" while handcuffed in the backseat of a cop car

It's interesting you mention this.  I saw a video on YouTube just a few days ago showing a black man in (I think?) his 20's get shot in the hip by a police officer at a gas station while (oops) reaching back into his car after he was already out of it.  The guy barely looked like he got shot -- even though you can clearly see it happen -- as he walked backwards out of the frame.  Then, you literally hear him ask the officer in a calm voice, "Why...why did you shoot me?"  

Edit: ...Which was a fantastic question.

If a black guy is shot, the media will always portray him as a thug
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/29/1325816/-Comparing-How-The-New-York-Times-Described-Mike-Brown-Ted-Bundy

Not sure if this was meant sarcastically or not. 

You guys need to check your privilege.

I live near St. Louis.  This place is full of ghetto wannabe thugs and I get so tired of hearing "he just a good boy tryna turn his life around." In this case, the guy had a gun and later tests confirmed the gun powder on his body, indicating he did fire on the cop first. Incredibly (but not surprisingly) there are now protests that this white cop killed another innocent black man, even though the guy shot at the cop first.

Not the first time the press has done this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2722613/African-Americans-Twitter-protest-media-s-portrayal-black-people-wake-police-killing-teenager-Michael-Brown-iftheygunnedmedown-hashtag.html

That picture real sounds like "Hey mum! Just made 3 sandwiches!" 

Forensics: St. Louis Black Teen Whose Death Triggered Massive Protests Fired At Police Officer First…






Gunshot residue tests and ballistics evidence indicate that Vonderitt D. Myers Jr. fired a gun at a police officer before being fatally shot, police and union officials said Tuesday.

Although police officials have already said that Myers fired at least three shots at an off-duty police officer before the officer returned fire, the newly released evidence could further dispel claims by friends and family that Myers was holding a sandwich, not a gun, when he was shot. The officer, who has not been named, was working for a private security company in the Shaw neighborhood.

Myers’ Oct. 8 death sparked protests in Shaw and fueled area-wide protests resulting from the Aug. 9 shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown by a Ferguson police officer.

The Missouri Highway Patrol analysis found gunshot residue on Myers’ hands, on his shirt and inside the waistband and pockets of his jeans. Police said that although gunshot residue can be present on anyone near a shooting, the results show levels consistent with Myers being the shooter, because the police officer was standing too far away.

Ballistics evidence also revealed three bullets that hit the ground where the officer was trying to take cover matched Myers’ gun. A round found inside a car behind the officer was too badly damaged to be able to match it to his gun, however, it did not match the type of bullets the officer fired, police said.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_3dafbce7-22b0-5c9a-b7e5-98460279f135.html#.VD1r9chj7vI.twitter

Human life has no value in america as these cases are happening on daily basis. At least that's what I see from watching the news. Maybe they should not arm all cops and have a special police unit that comes later with weapons like they have in UK that's the most civilized and well behaved police I have seen to date.

Maybe they should just fire the police forces in the USA
Instead of saying cops always know best
Then again could just be another race issue since the sandwich could be sketch guess it just points to a larger problem of police forces using lethal force instead of non lethal force

You may want to check this story again. The police are saying that he was armed and in fact fired at least three shots at police. There are no other witnesses. It is not clear where the sandwich story came from. Evidence on the scene is described as consistent with the police account. 

as an armed civilian, police should not do things arbitrarily like that, it is beyond humanity, armed police should have been posted under multiple tests, especially psychological tests, namely how their emotions are very influential when holding a gun, shoot someone who is not guilty without a weapon is something really not justified by the law, hopefully it can be processed according to the law and get a just punishment ... 

This just in, shorts are deadly. Better not tell Bart Simpson.

According to Dotson, ballistics evidence recovered from the scene suggested the teenager fired three shorts. The officer returned fire with 17 rounds. Dotson was unable to say why the officer fired so may shots.

St.Louis are cool =)

Keyword: "The police chief said"

They've been known to bullshit on many occasions, they've lost credibility

Most police officers will never shoot their gun in the line of duty. Most police officers will not use any of their tools except for their handcuffs, radio and pen while working as a police officer. Many police officers will likely not even need to point their gun at anyone in their official capacity as a police officer. Police officers will not even use their handcuffs every day and for some using them will be a very rare occurrence.

They do need to receive training when they are first hired as police officers as to how to use their handgun. They likely need to go through periodic training after they are hired, but they are far from professional marksmen.

The officer chased the man, an altercation ensued and the man fired at the officer, the police chief said. The officer returned fire and killed the man, who was 18.

Where in the article does it say that?

A lot of people think this. In fact most urban cops shoot very little and when they do they shoot in some cramped indoor range. If you are a serious amateur then you know I would not be bragging to say I shoot way better than most cops. My dad was a cop (St. Louis county). Even as a kid I shot better than almost all his cop friends.
The secret is trigger time. I shoot a few hundred rounds a week. A typical cop may take 6 months to shoot that much.  Because cops do not use their guns much at all, they do not need to practice all that much. A cop's pen, or a their radio is far more useful.

That might be true. But there are valid reasons for that as well. Most of the home invasions / store robberies in urban areas are carried out by armed black youth. So the police officers view all of them with suspicion.

I wish people would wake up and realize how terrible our police is becoming.

Awful stuff here...

Kluge gets it 

You can sit with us.

Appealing to emotion is the oldest tactic in politics. Every gun control ad has children on them. Every "counter-terrorist security measure" (euphemism for illegal searches) notice has Airplanes or tall buildings drawn on it, subliminal messaging.

Not sure I'd blame protesters. They aren't doing much rioting. Reporters broke the camel's back and maybe should be brought up on charges for being so irresponsible and greedy, but it's clearly part of something bigger which just needed a tiny spark to set off. Parents insisting he had only some type of bullet-firing sandwich didn't help, either... -but people are clearly looking for some kind of responsible leaders on this who can cause the sparks and bring the change they want instead of letting faux reporters and shootings set off uncontrolled & undisciplined responses. The LA riots are still well-known - so like with Vietnam, people are going to scrutinize anything done now looking for parallels -- there's no place for violence in causing change for the better right now. They seem like they have a lot of pent up anger at what's happening but've been disenfranchised and became cynical in the old leadership structures in the black community which lacks any catalyzing figure or progress they can feel. The media establishment pushes toothless profiteers like Al Sharpton, but the responses seen, especially in Ferguson, makes it clear these kinds of people are utterly ineffective. Obama's probably the best leader the black community is being given right now, but he really can't connect to people and catalyze movements the way someone on the outside could and I'd argue he lacks credibility, now. I'd guess he would've been a much more effective leader as a senator and could've had a lasting legacy, maybe even a national day.

-But what the Hell do I know about this?

I agree. And further, when government tries to step in and prevent me from self-protection, here's some of the stuff I do:

http://www.myprivateaudio.com/Karl-Lentz.html = Angela Stark's Talkshoe.

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5duR4OvEHHxOSdEZhANETw = TrustInAllLaw snippets of Karl's audios.

http://www.broadmind.org/ = Karl's main page.

http://www.unkommonlaw.co.uk/ = Karl's United Kingdom page.

http://www.youtube.com/user/765736/videos?view=0&live_view=500&flow=grid&sort=da = Craig Lynch's snippets page.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOkAHRzuiOA&list=PLHrkQxgz0mg6kUBciD-HIvTXByqjcIZ-D = Ten great Youtube videos, might be the best introduction to Karl.

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=127469&cmd=tc = Karl's Talkshoe site.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iua56K4Mysk = Karl Lentz - The Brian Bonar Incident - YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdHLHWS4gPE = Lentz-Sense - don't be a More~On - YouTube.


Other Info

http://voidjudgments.com/ = The Secret is most judgments are Void on their face and not merely voidable.

http://educationcenter2000.com/Trinsey-v-Paglario.htm = Trinsey v. Pagliaro - Attorneys cannot "speak" in common law trials if the one who is bringing the suit orders it. Holding from Trinsey v. Pagliaro: "An attorney for the plaintiff cannot admit evidence into the court. He is either an attorney or a witness."

And I do it in such a way that I get some profit out of it.

Look, it's the fault of the city council for not making sure that police policy is properly expounded. Police have, in the past, simply done what is reasonably right. Since there is FBI training involved these days, police are trained to do what is wrong. Now, it is up to the city council to familiarize themselves with what is going on, including police policy, and what police policy really should be, and then fire the whole police department if necessary, and restart a new one with the correct policies in place.

The people need to do something about the city council in ways that are peaceful and legal.

The best reward you can give me is spreading awareness. Talk back to the anti-gun social democrat movement.

As a private journalist I can confirm this is accurate.

However, police are more likely to shoot black unarmed teens than armed white rednecks.

How to make money as a reporter 101


Emotional response (ITC racism) -> more views -> more holla holla get dolla from advertisers

May the rioters and their victims be damned.

Don't cite sources you traitor. Muh Murka is perfect. If you don't like it go back to SoMUHlia!!

Also, racism is dead. Source: Fox News!!!

Don't believe me? Just look at how we got a black president (Ugh!)

You are right.

Apparently, you don't always need a gun though. Or to be able to hold one, for that matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Aiyana_Jones

http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/swat-throws-grenade-in-playpen/

http://www.dmlp.org/threats/arizona-v-pataky

http://deafnn.wordpress.com/2007/04/22/deaf-man-shot-with-beanbags-at-traffic-stop-sues-modesto-police-the-modesto-bee/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_and_the_Occupy_movement

And my favorite, because I had only moved away from Charlotte about a month before this occurred,

http://www.buzzfeed.com/adriancarrasquillo/officer-who-shot-young-black-man-after-he-was-in-car-acciden#2haaky6

All ages, all walks of life.

You can put your head in the sand, but that only makes your ass an easier target.

Is this America's Arab Spring?  Is this where it all ends?!   

First of all, no, police don't normally receive much training in marksmanship, and very few are actually professional shooters. Secondly, and more importantly, the targets at the shooting range don't shoot back. That does make a bit of a difference.

Um, no. It's not safe for any citizen that comes in proximity of the police to pull out a gun and start firing in their direction. So don't do that.

@OT,

Why is the title "unarmed teen" if the teen shot at the cop?!

Or is this the receipt for his "sandwich":

2 pieces of metal "gun shape" for bread
6 slices of full metal jacket
1 trigger
?

And these guys are trained marksmen? Professionals even? I thought they had to pass tests in order to participate, as well as demonstrate continuing competence over the course of employment.

It will be vindicating, but sad when everyone realizes this isn't a race issue at all. This is a class issue. You may fare a little worse statistically if you are a minority, but as events like this become increasingly more common, one can't help but wonder if it's safe for any citizen that comes in proximity of the police. And despite the increased media coverage as of late, the frequency of events like this has increased, as well as the severity of the incidents. I have seen clips of various flavors of police brutality perpetrated against the young, old, blacks, whites and the mentally infirm. Apparently anybody can get it, over here. Doesn't seem like there is much incentive not to bust a cap in someone's ass. It's SOP, so you're covered, and hell, he could have a gun. Why take a chance?  

You rarely see this type of police behavior perpetrated on the very wealthy, however. It's probably just a coincidence.

I'd like to see the source of this...

An average of ~15% of fired bullets from a police officer in a gun fight (from NYPD) hits, deviating no more than 10% (nominal) from that either way from 1990-2000.

One hit from 17 rounds fired'd be >5%, 2 being ~12%. Assuming the guy wasn't standing still ten feet in front of them and was exceptionally fat - pretty reasonable. Incidentally, if you round the tenths up, the average rounds fired in a gunfight, on average, by officers in the year 2000 is 17. http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Aveni/OIS.pdf fwiw

I'm not a cop, just someone with more experience with firearms than just watching movies and playing video games.

no surprise, since it requires thinking to know how many bullets are left in your clip.

I can tell you're a cop, because I've heard testimonies from ex-cops in America that they were trained to shoot until they were empty.

The Daily Mail (UK) - Schizophrenic man shot by cops 80 times until he 'had no face'

Anyone who thinks 17 rounds is excessive has clearly been watching too many movies and has no idea of how gunfighting actually works in reality. In a gunfight, you keep shooting until your opponent is dead or unconscious, or they drop their weapon, surrender, or escape, or you run out of ammo. The latter outcome is one of the most common, as people usually do not instantly drop dead when shot. A single gunshot wound is rarely fatal, and even a fatal wound rarely kills quickly. It almost always takes multiple shots to quickly incapacitate someone, often a surprisingly large number to someone who's never seen an actual gunfight. This is one of the main reasons the police switched from revolvers to semiautomatics: revolvers may be simpler to use, but the people who say "6 shots is enough to kill anything" just plain don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

17 rounds?
Isn't that excessive?

Source is US Uncut

Yeah, that does seem relevant here.
The only people saying it was a sandwich are his family. If he did shoot, a sandwich is not going to explain away the powder residue on his hands, the spent casings, the spent rounds, or the matching gun next to his body. The title is ludicrous. Honestly, what do you think happened? "Hey sarge, look a kid with a sandwich! Bang Bang!"

Where is that from? I see no reference to any witnesses.

A sandwich that fired 3 rounds?!
What do those guys feed in? Lead?

Maybe the kid had the curse of the undead and kept coming back to life? 17 rounds to take down an 18 year old is mind boggling. I don't doubt that there are tons of real-life scenarios that could explain this but still.

Seriously though, after reading the article, it seems to me that he was not actually shot 16 times. 17 shots were fired, I'm guessing most of those didn't hit the target. The whole thing is still shady though.

This isn't going to be pretty.

An off-duty St. Louis police officer fatally shot 18-year-old Vonderrick Myers Jr. 12 miles from Ferguson late Wednesday evening. Multiple witnesses report Myers was unarmed and holding a sandwich when the officer shot him 16 times.

White off-duty St Louis police officer shoots dead black teenager - The Guardian