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Topic: Underground business... (Read 2565 times)

full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Not for hire.
December 13, 2012, 07:56:50 PM
#26
Quote
In many countries breaking the law is a matter of survival or has grown into the culture - by this I mean in varying amounts.


I find it very interesting to point out this type of thing, here is my (hypothetical) example:

In real life, I fly around in helicopters, drive mercedes, and wear rolex watches--but hypothetically speaking *if* I didn't have a whole lot of money and tended to drive older cars all the time that still needed to be smog tested and one of my cars failed the emissions tests, it occurred to me that it would actually be a very expensive thing to set "right" and still be 100% legal on.  I believe that you get three "tries" or tests before you are exempt, and if your tabs are expired, that is three tests (which cost money) plus various (also costing) attempts at repair PLUS trip permits you must buy each time you move the vehicle on the road--all assuming that *hypothetically* the vehicle had not been used for a couple years.  Its the government screwing with the small-timer.

legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
December 07, 2012, 12:48:30 AM
#25
I was into criminal psychology back when I was pursuing my long-abandoned psychology major. Not sure if I still am, though some cases still fascinate me.
Also,"The Pirates of Somalia" by Jay Bahadur is still very much on my need to read list.
hero member
Activity: 900
Merit: 1000
Crypto Geek
December 06, 2012, 08:47:50 PM
#24
SilkRoad, BlackMarket and credit card fraud sites.
Look at what they do and learn.

In many countries breaking the law is a matter of survival or has grown into the culture - by this I mean in varying amounts. Visiting somewhere poor in South America could be useful research. Does any of us have any books on life for pirates in Somalia or opium growers in Afghanistan for example.

Are you into criminology too?
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
December 05, 2012, 12:13:41 AM
#23
1. Dont start the hypothetical business then use the government to steal the users money or build you a giant mining farm.
legendary
Activity: 1310
Merit: 1000
December 04, 2012, 07:51:44 PM
#22
Is this a hypothetical business for repeat customers?

Hypothetically you could advertise the shit out of it, then stop advertising, and only sell to repeat customers.
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1000
December 04, 2012, 05:55:29 PM
#21

You're getting defensive because I indirectly (and hypothetically) called you a scammer.

I'm not getting defensive, because I am not planning on any such businesses. It was all just hypothetical, so I hypothetically got defensive about your hypothetical accusation. It's all good though  Grin
Well, I think I could have hypothetically gotten offended based on your hypothetical question to start an illegal business (hypothetically).

This could hypothetically been super-illegal, and I hypothetically found it hypothetically necessary to hypothetically discourage you from hypothetically starting a hypothetically illegal business. 

Hypothetically.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
December 04, 2012, 10:37:28 AM
#20
In general the age old solution seems to be, move to a jurisdiction that respects your business and stay there.

Well, that was the most obvious and the least practical solution I was already aware of. I was looking for more like https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1375524 , and big props to him for those suggestions.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
December 04, 2012, 04:20:21 AM
#19
OK, fine, how would one hypothetically start, or more specifically bootstrap, a venture that would be variously called either a business in some countries, or an illegal venture in others? Kinda like how Silk Road is only illegal where drugs are illegal. The issue is that some countries regulate some businesses, others don't, and the Internet, along with Bitcoin, sorta doesn't care about jurisdictions.

Well, that's an entirely different story! Take Satoshi Dice: it meets your criteria (or gambling in general, or for that matter selling  drinks, or pork steaks). Take Bitcoin itself: it meets your criteria. Take a free press: it meets your criteria. Pretty much everything in the world is in that situation, of being legal here and illegal there.

In general the age old solution seems to be, move to a jurisdiction that respects your business and stay there.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
December 04, 2012, 01:42:14 AM
#18
There's no reason that an underground business needs to be a scam. Hypothetically speaking one could start a business which had the effect of lowering its customers' tax liabilities in a way that was lawful (or at least in which any unlawful effect was plausibly deniable). A business like that would do well to be circumspect in its structure and operation.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
December 04, 2012, 01:08:51 AM
#17

You're getting defensive because I indirectly (and hypothetically) called you a scammer.

I'm not getting defensive, because I am not planning on any such businesses. It was all just hypothetical, so I hypothetically got defensive about your hypothetical accusation. It's all good though  Grin
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
December 04, 2012, 12:38:24 AM
#16
Also, "hypothetically" my ass.
Lol srsly.

Side note: I need help figuring out how to hypothetically scam someone. Anyone know how to do it? Seems all the successful one aren't around anymore, so I can't ask them.  Shocked Shocked Shocked
FYI, If I was thinking of setting up some business that may or may not be legal, it would not be illegal due to being a scam, it would be illegal due to not following one specific country's regulations on investments and securities. Hypothetically.
You're getting defensive because I indirectly (and hypothetically) called you a scammer.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
December 04, 2012, 12:11:04 AM
#15
Also, "hypothetically" my ass.
Lol srsly.

Side note: I need help figuring out how to hypothetically scam someone. Anyone know how to do it? Seems all the successful one aren't around anymore, so I can't ask them.  Shocked Shocked Shocked

FYI, If I was thinking of setting up some business that may or may not be legal, it would not be illegal due to being a scam, it would be illegal due to not following one specific country's regulations on investments and securities. Hypothetically.
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
December 03, 2012, 10:18:19 PM
#14
Also, "hypothetically" my ass.
Lol srsly.

Side note: I need help figuring out how to hypothetically scam someone. Anyone know how to do it? Seems all the successful one aren't around anymore, so I can't ask them.  Shocked Shocked Shocked
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
December 03, 2012, 09:39:34 PM
#13
Base it in a country out of the reach of the SEC.

As Intrade just found out, there is no such thing.

+1 Sad

I guess except Onionland
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
December 03, 2012, 07:01:06 PM
#12
Base it in a country out of the reach of the SEC.

As Intrade just found out, there is no such thing.
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1000
December 03, 2012, 06:53:01 PM
#11
This forum is really starting to depress me.

Also, "hypothetically" my ass.
sr. member
Activity: 546
Merit: 252
Proof-of-Stake Blockchain Network
December 03, 2012, 05:47:05 PM
#10
I've been asking myself the same question. Speaking of which, if you guys want to invest some money and you don't mind technically breaking the law, you know where to find me.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
December 03, 2012, 05:42:54 PM
#9
The problem with the notion of illegal business is that it's nonsense. The business name for an illegal venture is criminal enterprise.

OK, fine, how would one hypothetically start, or more specifically bootstrap, a venture that would be variously called either a business in some countries, or an illegal venture in others? Kinda like how Silk Road is only illegal where drugs are illegal. The issue is that some countries regulate some businesses, others don't, and the Internet, along with Bitcoin, sorta doesn't care about jurisdictions.
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1010
December 03, 2012, 05:38:59 PM
#8
The problem with the notion of illegal business is that it's nonsense. The business name for an illegal venture is criminal enterprise.

Exactly.  A criminal enterprise.   Here's one such example:

Quote
Gandhi reached down and picked up a small lump of natural salt out of the mud--and British law had been defied.
- http://www.history.com/topics/salt-march
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
December 03, 2012, 05:32:53 PM
#7
Just looking for some ideas here:

HYPOTHETICALLY How would one go about starting a business that you know may be illegal, and will eventually run afoul of the SEC, without running into legal trouble? Start it using your reputation, build it up to be viable, then give it to an anonymous entity when you start to feel the heat? Start it in an anonymous way and get someone well known to vouch for you?

The problem with the notion of illegal business is that it's nonsense. The business name for an illegal venture is criminal enterprise.
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
December 03, 2012, 04:14:28 PM
#6
I was thinking of an underground business in The Shire. Grin
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
December 03, 2012, 03:41:51 PM
#5
Thanks guys. Great help!
legendary
Activity: 947
Merit: 1042
Hamster ate my bitcoin
December 03, 2012, 02:13:37 PM
#4
Base it in a country out of the reach of the SEC.
legendary
Activity: 873
Merit: 1000
December 03, 2012, 01:58:26 PM
#3
HYPOTHETICALLY How would one go about starting a business that you know may be illegal, and will eventually run afoul of the SEC, without running into legal trouble?

build it so that it is not very visible and easily ignored (i.e., not in a way that it would require a response from enforcement).  build it so that it does not exist to enrich the founder / central operators but instead any wealth earned is shared among all participants proportionate to the effort (e.g., like a coop),    build it only if it benefits mankind and as such clamping down on it would be politically untenable in the short term and changing the law to accommodate it in the long term becomes a more attractive alternative.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
December 03, 2012, 11:36:16 AM
#2
Start it using your reputation, build it up to be viable, then give it to an anonymous entity when you start to feel the heat? Start it in an anonymous way and get someone well known to vouch for you?
The best way is to build a business model in which minimal or no trust is required and stay anonymous the entire time.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
December 03, 2012, 10:36:59 AM
#1
Just looking for some ideas here:

HYPOTHETICALLY How would one go about starting a business that you know may be illegal, and will eventually run afoul of the SEC, without running into legal trouble? Start it using your reputation, build it up to be viable, then give it to an anonymous entity when you start to feel the heat? Start it in an anonymous way and get someone well known to vouch for you?
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