Topic: Understanding the Legality and Myth of Card Counting in Blackjack (Read 343 times)

This is not accurate, casinos like having winners from time to time, as it is common for those people to share their stories online and bring customers to try out their casino looking for the same results, so not only they will eventually get their money back but they will make much more money this way, compared to the results they will get if no one ever won, however what casinos do not like are professional players, players that are so good at a particular game they can win consistently, in which case a ban or a limited account often follows, once casinos realize a gambler has that level of skill.

Casinos usually have their own rules and regulations and you have to follow them strictly or else, you will be sanctioned and they can ban you from their casino, the owners often know each other and have connections to different casinos and they can call it out and ban you from entering if you do something wrong or violate their rules. Anyways, it is not that easy to do or study card counting, you will need intense training experiences or skills and that is why it is prohibited because when you know how to do it, there are the possible chances of winnings that you will get.

Casinos may still ban you even if you are not caught card counting or not doing anything at all. Sportsbooks also do this to players who are just too good at picking odds. I've already read of some players here that were not banned but their account were limited - that means they couldn't bet more. The point is that casinos and bookies do not want anyone to win a lot and empty their vault.

It is a waste of money to try card counting when gambling online, even when you are dealing with a live dealer, the reason for this is that for what I have seen, live dealers shuffle after each round, meaning that whatever count you had becomes meaningless as you have to start all over again, and since casinos are using several decks, whatever the count is when it comes your turn makes no difference at all when it comes to your chances of obtaining the cards you need.

Yup, card counting is legal and the way blackjack runs on online casinos it seems like the risk to them is just not there. Through the video I mentioned the player also mentions a terms I didn't know previously, risk of ruin. We'll, this means chances of going bust after a certain number of hands. And with on-line casino rule sets, it's quite high. You have to take big risks to lower it and can still lose because the house edge also protects the casino. So maybe even online casinos would like to have punters under the illusion that they can best the system just so they go bust.

It's so difficult to do this card counting in blackjack and I think that is why they are legal.
Casino platforms on the other hand just don't like the idea of doing the counting in front of their tables because that will be like a punch to their face. Using our brains only to count and remember the past cards is not an easy task and it will probably just result in more errors if we miss or forget one.
Mathematicians will probably have a good edge on this but if I am that good then I'd rather use it in better ways than risk it to gambling where I could be arrested or kicked out for doing it.
I've seen great people who do counting too and most of them are in poker tournaments. They are good at guessing what their opponent's hand is.

It's an interesting video. I like how he compares live blackjack to online blackjack. He looks like a very experienced player. He describes how card counting works and how difficult it can be to do it online. Those who wish to try card counting should check this video.

Well, he tried card counting at online blackjack and decided to spend 10 hours doing it. He lost half of his deposit and I think we can say that he did not have a pleasant experience. He ended up having problems with the KYC and it was funny that the casino sent him his withdrawal twice, but he was fair and sent them an email about their mistake, that was fair of him.

Card counting is possible, but it's not something that everyone can do. You need to have a good memory to remember many cards that have passed and always have an idea of what cards might come next... but that's no guarantee of a win, it just increases your chances of winning.

Card counting is a method in which the player attempts to keep track of the cards that have already been played to estimate if there are more high or low-value cards left in the deck. This is not an illicit skill but rather a valid mathematical strategy that does not go against any regulation. Nevertheless, although card counting is allowed by law, casinos still hold their authority over their own rules. Many casinos ban players found guilty of this act and can even throw them out of the establishment. Not because it violates any law, but because they consider it cheating.

It is within the casinos’ rights to determine their own regulations, and for this reason, the practice of some strategies such as card counting might be seen as an offense. Card counting is not illegal, but casinos can take internal measures like expelling players if they catch them doing it due to their policies.

Although the act of card counting is not considered illegal itself, casinos have individual policies regarding this matter. In the UK where card counting is technically legal, however, a player can still be barred from entering a casino for that reason based on the establishment’s internal policies.

Casinos can toss you for anything they want honestly. You're right, card counting isn't illegal but frowned upon, but that isn't the only thing they will ban you for. You will be asked to leave if you are winning too much in some casinos. The pitboss will tell you basically that they don't want your business anymore.

Most casinos are not going to ban you unless you make things pretty obvious, but it's always good to know what is or isn't acceptable before visiting an establishment.

It is not really that complicated, businesses have the right to refuse to service customers based on specific criteria, so card counters are denied entry to most casinos because they are taking away their profits, as casinos make very clear that their games are meant for gamblers that are not professional, with professional meaning someone that can make profits out of an activity, and while this may seem unfair to some, casinos are within their rights to do this, so gamblers cannot do anything but to accept their ruling.

I also read that if the card counters are quick enough before the casinos caught them, before they can exchange that chips of them, the casino has the right to ask for ID and that is because they want to identify them, if they are in disguise it might be hard for casinos, but if they will ask ID it will be easy for them.


Yes, it's not the usual number of decks, they will have to add more and shuffle more often to deter this card counters. Of course, we all know that this card counters take years to hone their skills so it's really a constant battle between them and the casinos.

I'm sure this has been discussed here a number of times already. This is an old topic. I've read a book and watched a movie about card counting years ago.

Card counting is true. But casinos have long adapted to this possibility. They've already taken measures against card counters. Yeah, it is legal, but a casino may kick you out and ban you forever. It's their business. They have the right to say no to a client.

And, once identified, you can't easily jump to another casino because casinos are actually using a shared database of card counters. Be On the Lookouts or BOLOs are card counters that are already identified. They can't easily enter casinos anymore.

Aside from this, multiple decks and constant shuffling are also done by casinos to counter the skills of these card counters.

Yeah, i read it somewhere too but it does make sense, it's even confusing. While the government makes and mandates that law, some casinos don't allow or basically follow it. In any way, no need to complicate things as casinos have their own rules and that's what matters.
But yeah, you can't be put in bars if caught doing that, the person might be banned playing blackjack and be offered to other games, or worst ban in the casino for good.

It should not be illegal because it is something that we do most with our mind, it is illogical to think that I should play for the sake of playing and not think, I think that we all should think before making our movements, and in that case we always have to consider things as they are, So since you have to count the cards, it is impossible for the cameras to see our counting thoughts. We could be counting cards, but we could also be thinking about something else, and when counting cards it is very easy to lose track. And things get worse, you would have to practice a lot to be able to Reach a very good game and be profitable, plus the casinos I don't know if they respect that to play black jack it is 54 cards and then another lot of 54 cards is dealt, If they are combined it is impossible to count.

I believe, in today's scenario, it is now hard to apply the card counting technique. Maybe, in the previous years but today, I don't think it is easy to do this trick because of what you already mentioned, multiple decks alone would give the player hard time to use this trick.

And the legality of such technique depends on the jurisdiction. We can't totally say it is legal if such technique is deemed illegal to one state or county. So if you happen to apply this technique and it is not legal, better do it discreetly as much as you can.

Now counting cards is useless (and hardly realistic given the number of decks involved in the game). The dealer has a cutoff (if I’m not mistaken, around 30% of the cards played), upon reaching which the entire deck (which consists of several regular decks) is shuffled. The player does not have a chance to reach the point where, knowing all the cards that came out of the game, he can calculate the probabilities of the cards he needs falling out.

On an online casinos this would only be possible with sport bets, since even if there are many cases of successful poker players, they are playing against their peers and not the casino itself, while the rest of the games cannot be beaten as casinos have taken additional measures to counter the strategies that could allow a gambler to beat them, so for example when it comes to blackjack, the decks are shuffled after every single round, making the act of card counting completely useless.

Of course it's not illegal but just like what you have said players are having edge for counting cards and casinos don't like players to win as they are business and not a gambler. It's true that you'll get banned and escort you out of the casino but it's totally not illegal. Now, if I am not mistaken there's a lot of improvements from the past to avoid counting cards from surveillance, using multiple decks or continuous shuffling and sometimes changing the table payout rules to avoid this.

It only works properly in an ideal scenario, not in reality. Casinos long ago realised that some players had a card-counting advantage, and what they did to counteract this was to introduce more decks and shuffle every hand. Even before this was only available to a select few and with a large variance, so no one today thinks they are going to get rich playing BJ and counting cards.

Thank you for your recommendation. I like the "The Last Casino" too. One of my favourite lines from the movie was were the surveillance team caught Professor barns and threw him out of the casino after he was caught counting cards at the blackjack table. As he protested their action, the head of the surveillance team said to him, "We don't ever want to see you in here again...well we like our guests to win their money not earn it..." Apparently because he was already in debt and has been banned by the casinos he recruits a team of college students and trains them on card-counting to win at blackjack so as to repay his debt. It makes me curious about what the modern-day equivalent would be if it happened in an online casino.

If you enjoyed "21" and are looking for something similar, you might want to check out "The Last Casino". It’s a lesser-known Canadian film that also revolves around a professor and a group of students who use their card-counting skills to win at blackjack. The plot is quite similar to "21" and dives deep into the techniques and strategies of card counting, making it a gripping watch for fans of blackjack-centric stories.

The problem is, most casinos are bristling with security cameras these days and blackjack is one of the few games it is possible for a customer to walk away from with a profit over the long term. That means the casinos know exactly where to spend a large part of their analysis, because they want an average player to still have a good time, but for it to remain profitable they have to figure out anyone who may be card counting. You can find countless documentaries out there that follow people and openly show what happens when they do this in casinos. They'll either get warned to change their betting patterns, nullifying the strategy, or they'll outright get escorted from the casino.

It's not illegal in the sense that there is a criminal charge against you with the law but casinos frown upon it because it gives the player an edge.  It's not a myth otherwise casinos wouldn't care.  Understanding the odds with remaining cards left in the deck will help you win more than you lose.  It happens all over the world but with technology getting better its easier to spot and stop for casinos.  Watch the movie 21 it's a pretty good movie about it.

The casinos really do go all out in their efforts to keep the game in their favor.
I’ve also heard about the networks some casinos use to share information about known card counters. They’re trying to protect their interests, of course, but it does raise interesting questions about privacy and fairness.

The thing is, it does truly works when done correctly. And you playing real time and being kick out solely depends with the level of security and rules and of the casino. Some identify that as an edge and allow their players to do such, most really defined that as cheating when the has been exploited much money from that player. It also depends on the casino if they exchange their winnings or not to monetary value.

There’s a mathematical evidence that card counting is effective for a regular card decks without a continuous shuffling feature in the casino since the number of cards is determined. Card counts involves counting both high cards and low cards that will give an idea to the possible remaining card on the deck and gives an edge to the players to increase their bet significantly.

Card counters rely on increasing their bets when they already have a better overview on what is the remaining card on the deck. It’s not a myth since it was proven and casino is aware on this strategy that’s why they are strict on monitoring it.

But right now, There’s no way to apply this method with the current rules of blackjack on casino.

This movie recommendation was awesome. I absolutely love it. Yeah, I'd give the movie a 7/10 ratings. Fun Fact: Did you know the movie was based on a book - Bringing Down the House: The Inside Story of Six MIT Students Who Took Vegas for Millions by Ben Mezrich. After watching the movie, it makes me want to go to Las Vags, visit one of its casinos and play Blackjack.

Does anyone have any other Blackjack movie recommendation for me?

And casino's doesn't want you to outsmart them. And if I'm not mistaken, they shared the pictures or image of this card counters so that they can recognized them once they step inside the casinos.

From the videos that I watch, card counters are also at a look out, when they see pit bosses like on the phone and talking to someone, they will have to back it off and if they are lucky, they can exchange their winnings before being escorted out.

Think of casinos as those high school parties where the hosts have the final say on the guest list. Just as you’re getting into the groove, counting cards like you’re flipping through a mental Rolodex, the casino’s eagle-eyed bouncers (aka surveillance cameras) are on the lookout.
So, while card counting in places like the UK isn’t against the law (you won’t be doing the walk of shame past Monopoly’s Go to Jail square), casinos act like those mythical creatures who guard treasures.
They have a “you shall not pass” attitude towards card counters, not because it’s illegal, but because you’re outsmarting the house at its own game.

Thing is there's a big "IF" inside that scenario. If they don't, then it's really easy to get money no? Casinos had a hard time I reckon in trying to monitor each and every player to catch whether they're card counting or not since this can be done mentally (hard, but doable) so they did some counters to it. Either by using multiple decks of cards, shuffling the deck after each (or multiple) rounds and stuff like that. They're pretty easy to remedy if you think about it really but I reckon casinos of the past didn't notice it or think about it until it became used by a lot of their players.

you’re quite right in noting that card counting in blackjack sits in a unique legal and ethical gray area. Card counting, at its core, is simply a player using their mental faculties to keep track of the cards that have been dealt to gain an advantage. Legally, it’s not considered cheating because it doesn’t involve the use of external devices or collusion with the casino staff; it’s just a skillful way of playing the game.

However, casinos are private establishments and have the right to serve (or refuse service to) whomever they choose, as long as they’re not discriminating on the basis of protected characteristics like race, religion, or gender. Because casinos view card counting as a threat to their bottom line—they’re in the business to make money, after all—they employ various measures to identify and mitigate it. This includes the use of surveillance cameras and even banning players believed to be counting cards.

Your question about legality is insightful. In places like the UK, while the act of card counting itself isn’t illegal, the casino’s right to refuse service to someone they suspect of counting cards means that players engaging in this strategy can indeed be thrown out or banned. This doesn’t make card counting illegal per se, but it does mean that casinos are legally permitted to take actions against card counters. Essentially, while you’re not breaking the law by counting cards, you are violating the casino’s policies, and they have the legal right to ask you to leave or to ban you from playing.

So, while card counting gives players an edge and is not illegal, the reality of being able to practice it in a casino is complicated by the casino’s right to protect its interests.

It’s not illegal but the casinos have their own rules and regulations, and once you play with them you agree to that terms and that’s why it became illegal on that casinos, though the consequences is just being banned from that casinos and not a legal battle. Card counting works, but it takes a lot of hard work and great knowledge for you to understand it, I think only few can do this and only few will attempt to learn this.

There is a big difference between the rules set by governments and the regulations put forward by casinos, for example, you could make a rule that no one in your house is supposed to eat junk food and if they do you will kick them out, but is it actually illegal to buy junk food? No, this is just a rule you decided to set on your house, casino rules are the same, card counting is not cheating and still it gives an edge to the player, obviously casinos do not like players that can do that as they have a negative impact on their profits, so those players get banned and they cannot play there ever again, however you have no risk of being arrested or anything like that, because what you did is not a crime, you just broke one of the internal rules of the casino.

All i will have to say concerning this is to know the rules of the kind of game you're playing, this may also have some little difference from the region in which we are subscribing for the play from, once we know the rules of engagement, we may not get into any unforeseen circumstances with the gambling we made, this should be the first thing that we must ensure to do by reading their terms and conditions for playing, this will give us the required direction on the steps to take or not.

I don't think it is sad, its not like they are getting arrested or anything, they are just getting kicked out of the casino and as you said these people already know what the what could happen if they are caught. these just want to have an advantage against the casino and hopes they don't get caught when they are card counting.

Yeah Rain Man is a very good movie considering there are not many good movies about gambling that are actually good.
You can also watch the movie "21" the story about counting cards by MIT students led by their professor who has a plan to loot some casinos in Vegas.
And it is said that this movie is actually based on a true story of a group of MIT students running a card counting operation every weekend in Vegas.

I have seen the videos..it is sad. I keep wondering why do these people keep counting being fully aware that they are going against the rules of the casino. They know the consequences when they are caught. I end up with the dilemma of if this is bravely or crazy.
Thank you for the movie recommendations. It was fun and entertaining to watch. I count the blackjack scene as one of the greatest in movie history. Despite the movie being based on true life stories, it will be difficult for anyone to memorize the entire decks. And you are right casinos could fight back by automatically shuffling some decks of cards in.

The experts at counting cards don't need to do anything,they can count in full quietness and use that to their own advantage.It is not a myth at all as if it is done right,the person also has the right amount of patience to wait and go all in in a hand that he is sure to win it this gives the person the upper edge.Most casinos though know this trick and they use different deck of cards to counter such happenings,I have gone personally in the biggest casino where I live to verify this and yes they were using quite a big number of different decks,this way they are sure and safe from that count carding trick which if done right can make the casino lose their house edge.

It's not a myth, card counters can really take advantage of the casinos and that is why Black Jack table is one of the most monitor in a traditional base casinos. And most card counters are well-known and they are recorded by casinos and being shared amongst themselves so that they will recognized and they are going to be ask to leave the premises politely.

It's not illegal per se, it's that you just uses your brain to memorized the cards, but if you uses like electronics to card count then that is illegal and casino can charge you with that.

It's not a myth, but it certainly takes a lot of talent, patience and extremely good memory to learn it. Your last sentence doesn't even make sense, the government makes the law - casinos and players follow those laws. Casinos are free to make their own terms, which players must adhere to in order to play there or they will be ejected from the casino and possibly banned permanently, that does not make what they are doing illegal and no police are going to arrest them for that alone. Go watch "Rain man", an old film with Tom Cruise in it and someone who plays a mathematical genius for one dramatized example of it. However there are professionals, who work single and in teams to try to win big at casinos using this method. There are some ways a casino can fight back, like reshuffling decks or not showing how many decks are being used in a shoe, which changes the odds.

Not sure how laws works in the UK but a lot of casinos are privately owned establishment, they can have their own rules and they can kick you out or ban you from their establishment if they want to.

If you are curious if there have been people kicked out for card counting there videos on YouTube that you can probably watch.

Card counting is possible to do anywhere, but certain casino rules might make it extremely hard to have profit while doing it.
And then there's also the so called risk of ruin aka risk of losing all your deposits, which is always there. Even the most favorable casino rules will not let you get great chances at winning without risk. There's always at least a 1% chance of you losing everything. But with the casino rules on sites that feature live gambling dealers, the risk of ruin is much higher and you'll be earning much less even with the higher risk. Card counting is most effective when the shoe is about to end. And for live gambling host companies like Evolution, their rules are that the shoe changes when it's half way! So it's very hard to count cards because it's very rarely that you'll be close to a shoe finishing. Only if a dealer splits closer to the end in spit of them being instructed to split close to the middle and even then, it can take ages because many people sit on a table.

I watched a pretty good video on someone trying to card count online:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjiVpO1hlvk

It's also pretty entertaining so you'll have no problems watching it, but if you want the long story short here it is:
Basically it's possible to count cards even online on live gambling. But it's not that worth it because of high risk and low reward.

I have learned that card counting is legal in blackjack but casinos frown at it. Most casinos have a surveillance camera that watch each table to catch a player who caught counting cards. A player may be thrown out or banned from the casino if caught counting cards because there is a belief that it gives the player an edge. How true is this or this a myth? If for instance card counting is legal in the UK but outlawed by casinos doesn't it makes it illegal?