Unfair Blackjack | Bitcointalksearch.org

Alvin Fahriza

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Quote from: waterpile on June 27, 2015, 05:41:19 PM

Quote from: yoloer808 on June 27, 2015, 01:46:53 AM

How are the results unrealistic? But ok, I think he should just come out and name the site here.

Don't take newbie's post seriously, he didn't provide any proofs and he didn't named which site it is

Quote from: shogdite on June 27, 2015, 03:48:17 PM

So guys.. Who has the best blackjack for bitcoins going on?

For me its CoinRoyale.com

ok i Try

waterpile

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Quote from: yoloer808 on June 27, 2015, 01:46:53 AM

How are the results unrealistic? But ok, I think he should just come out and name the site here.

Don't take newbie's post seriously, he didn't provide any proofs and he didn't named which site it is

Quote from: shogdite on June 27, 2015, 03:48:17 PM

So guys.. Who has the best blackjack for bitcoins going on?

For me its CoinRoyale.com

shogdite

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LIR Dev. www.letitride.io

So guys.. Who has the best blackjack for bitcoins going on?

lexuz

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Me, myself and I

Quote from: Malin Keshar on June 26, 2015, 10:30:36 AM

Quote from: apriyani420 on June 26, 2015, 10:09:46 AM

Quote from: damiano on June 26, 2015, 09:39:54 AM

Maaan you played just 69 hands and call it unfair and to stay away, you never played even 1% of what you needed to make the claim of unfairness. Your test was flawed as you never got a proper average just a few bad hands. Come back with them unfair and cheat claims after playing 2000+ hands not 69

Was the site you played provably fair?

i agree only 69 hands can have too much coincidence to call it already unfair, you should have played at least 1000

1000 hands in a not provably fair casino just to prove they are not fair? And spend at least 1BTC in your experiment?

No, thanks. I would prefer be forever in doubt

agree with your argument, for me first 5 hand arrow in blackjack for show this casino provably fair or not. no need much balance for to know fair or not. just need in 5 game

yoloer808

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Quote from: ajareselde on June 27, 2015, 01:41:04 AM

Quote from: damiano on June 26, 2015, 09:39:54 AM

Maaan you played just 69 hands and call it unfair and to stay away, you never played even 1% of what you needed to make the claim of unfairness. Your test was flawed as you never got a proper average just a few bad hands. Come back with them unfair and cheat claims after playing 2000+ hands not 69

Was the site you played provably fair?

So what you are saying is that he should loose 30 times more money before he is allowed to say something? He said it multiple times that the sample range is small,
it's not like he doesn't realize that,but the thing is how the results are unrealistic.

@op stay away from non-provably fair gambling sites

cheers

How are the results unrealistic? But ok, I think he should just come out and name the site here.

ajareselde

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Quote from: damiano on June 26, 2015, 09:39:54 AM

Maaan you played just 69 hands and call it unfair and to stay away, you never played even 1% of what you needed to make the claim of unfairness. Your test was flawed as you never got a proper average just a few bad hands. Come back with them unfair and cheat claims after playing 2000+ hands not 69

Was the site you played provably fair?

So what you are saying is that he should loose 30 times more money before he is allowed to say something? He said it multiple times that the sample range is small,
it's not like he doesn't realize that,but the thing is how the results are unrealistic.

@op stay away from non-provably fair gambling sites

cheers

yoloer808

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Quote from: BKT217 on June 26, 2015, 02:37:13 PM

Quote from: FanEagle on June 26, 2015, 01:15:06 PM

Please OP, are you being sarcastic with those 69 hands? or you wanted to refer it as sexual like BJ can appear to mean.
I've played so many hands like for days both on live dealing and software one, and I prefer the live dealing ofc but still, 69 hands is relatively extremely small to compare a % of busting or something.

I disagree, % to bust or % of dealer upcards are fixed percentages, when a game deviates from expectations to a significant extent it can signal that there is something WRONG and it can be proven in FAR fewer hands then would be believed.

For example: If I had a bag with 99 red marbles and 1 blue marble and drew the blue marble 20 times in a row you could prove something to be statstically wrong in that game in very few trials!

I may run some more tests this weekend, I don't expect much to come from it, there is no accountability in a "bitcoin" casino.

Even look at casinos such as 5Dimes(reputable casino) they ran rigged craps for 2 years before someone decided to test it.. Roll Eyes

Only takeaway from this thread is to stick to live or provably fair casinos and always change client seed Wink

How would this manifest itself in blackjack? There are no extremely high or low probabilities for getting any of the cards. Apart from a situation where the dealer get blackjack 69 times in a row, I really fail to see what could give away that it is manipulated in so few hands.

subSTRATA

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Quote from: grendel25 on June 26, 2015, 06:50:42 PM

Yep, to get a fair statistical analysis requires playing millions of rounds and is best left to tailorable simulation computers. Plus, there are games with better odds and lower house edge compared to Blackjack and there is a lot less risk of human betting errors to optimize the result. Baccarat is one example but even that still has a house edge and it's not uncommon to get 25+ losses in a row despite having nearly 50/50 odds.

people need to understand that there is something called probability; too many people fall to gambler's fallacy and consider something like this "impossible" when its just a series of bad picks.

grendel25

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Yep, to get a fair statistical analysis requires playing millions of rounds and is best left to tailorable simulation computers. Plus, there are games with better odds and lower house edge compared to Blackjack and there is a lot less risk of human betting errors to optimize the result. Baccarat is one example but even that still has a house edge and it's not uncommon to get 25+ losses in a row despite having nearly 50/50 odds.

BKT217

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Quote from: FanEagle on June 26, 2015, 01:15:06 PM

Please OP, are you being sarcastic with those 69 hands? or you wanted to refer it as sexual like BJ can appear to mean.
I've played so many hands like for days both on live dealing and software one, and I prefer the live dealing ofc but still, 69 hands is relatively extremely small to compare a % of busting or something.

I disagree, % to bust or % of dealer upcards are fixed percentages, when a game deviates from expectations to a significant extent it can signal that there is something WRONG and it can be proven in FAR fewer hands then would be believed.

For example: If I had a bag with 99 red marbles and 1 blue marble and drew the blue marble 20 times in a row you could prove something to be statstically wrong in that game in very few trials!

I may run some more tests this weekend, I don't expect much to come from it, there is no accountability in a "bitcoin" casino.

Even look at casinos such as 5Dimes(reputable casino) they ran rigged craps for 2 years before someone decided to test it.. Roll Eyes

Only takeaway from this thread is to stick to live or provably fair casinos and always change client seed Wink

FanEagle

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Please OP, are you being sarcastic with those 69 hands? or you wanted to refer it as sexual like BJ can appear to mean.
I've played so many hands like for days both on live dealing and software one, and I prefer the live dealing ofc but still, 69 hands is relatively extremely small to compare a % of busting or something.

trafficolaa

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What OP want to prove about blackjack because he did not name it any website there where he tested that method or he want to prove that all website that have blackjack games are rigged, in my opinion i am playing blackjack at live casino and till now i have made very good profit from that site with this games so if some sites are rigged than OP must named it and it can be helpful for new players to stay away from this scam site.

jambola2

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Well, if the minimum bet is small enough, 0.0001 to 0.0005, you could try a few hundred at without a large loss and try to get a good sample size.
The question is though, why not reveal the casino?
If it is a scam, others will know.
If it isn't a scam, people can defend it, or the casino owner could try to justify.

yoloer808

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If you have concerns about a site, why not just name it? I think it would put your accusations in context, because now you're not saying anything with you small sample size.

anderson00673

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I think it is better to only play at online casinos with a good reputation. There are some pretty well established ones, and they stand to earn far more from their customers by having a fair system in place. These small guys might just be in it for a quick buck.

Speaking of fair, does anyone think the dice is rigged at yobit? I do, but I only play with their free coins anyway, so its not a big deal.

Malin Keshar

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Quote from: apriyani420 on June 26, 2015, 10:09:46 AM

Quote from: damiano on June 26, 2015, 09:39:54 AM

Maaan you played just 69 hands and call it unfair and to stay away, you never played even 1% of what you needed to make the claim of unfairness. Your test was flawed as you never got a proper average just a few bad hands. Come back with them unfair and cheat claims after playing 2000+ hands not 69

Was the site you played provably fair?

i agree only 69 hands can have too much coincidence to call it already unfair, you should have played at least 1000

1000 hands in a not provably fair casino just to prove they are not fair? And spend at least 1BTC in your experiment?

No, thanks. I would prefer be forever in doubt

Dennis7777

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Quote from: apriyani420 on June 26, 2015, 10:09:46 AM

Quote from: damiano on June 26, 2015, 09:39:54 AM

Maaan you played just 69 hands and call it unfair and to stay away, you never played even 1% of what you needed to make the claim of unfairness. Your test was flawed as you never got a proper average just a few bad hands. Come back with them unfair and cheat claims after playing 2000+ hands not 69

Was the site you played provably fair?

i agree only 69 hands can have too much coincidence to call it already unfair, you should have played at least 1000

Nope he shouldn't try to play on that site, not even 1 hand, since he knows it is not provably fair and there are multiple provably fair BJ sites out there for him to choose from.

muhrohmat

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well as we can see if the blckjack was something to be lost for the house wouldnt be there would it? its just a 40% change to doulbe and 60% of losing like most of casino schemes.

apriyani420

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Quote from: damiano on June 26, 2015, 09:39:54 AM

Maaan you played just 69 hands and call it unfair and to stay away, you never played even 1% of what you needed to make the claim of unfairness. Your test was flawed as you never got a proper average just a few bad hands. Come back with them unfair and cheat claims after playing 2000+ hands not 69

Was the site you played provably fair?

i agree only 69 hands can have too much coincidence to call it already unfair, you should have played at least 1000

damiano

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103 days, 21 hours and 10 minutes.

Maaan you played just 69 hands and call it unfair and to stay away, you never played even 1% of what you needed to make the claim of unfairness. Your test was flawed as you never got a proper average just a few bad hands. Come back with them unfair and cheat claims after playing 2000+ hands not 69

Was the site you played provably fair?

keepinquiet

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If the site claims provably fair, post it, I'll review it.

If they don't claim provably fair, they are stealing your money and there's nothing you or anyone else can do to prove otherwise.

bajing

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The most Professional Cryptocurrency Casino

if you think place you play blackjack not fair, you can try fortunejack casino. you can play blackjack,slotmachine,dice.roulette
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Rmcdermott927

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Quote from: BKT217 on June 25, 2015, 08:06:23 PM

Won't out the casino since sample size is too small. Undecided

Spreadsheet of dealer hands

Takeaways:

69 hands
Dealer Busted 13 times - 18% of the time - expect ~28%
Dealer 21 - 8 times - 11% of the time
Dealer 20 - 7 times - 10.14% of the time
Total dealer 20 or 21: 15 times - 21.73%
Dealer showed 10 or A 42% of the time Cool

Dealer Bust: 18% Dealer 20/21 - 21.73 Roll Eyes

Sample size small, pretty sure they are cheats, won't invest more money to do a real test....

Rigged software is out there...always be cautious.

I don't think you can make that kind of call until you have played a few hundred or even a few thousand hands. The more you play, the closer your average will be to the expected expected statistic.

BKT217

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Quote from: subSTRATA on June 25, 2015, 11:10:37 PM

Quote from: krazey on June 25, 2015, 11:08:09 PM

Well if it isn't Provably Fair you should just out this casino's name?

like i said before, this sample size is useless, a sample size of under 100 hands is in no way determinant of fairness or unfairness. you would need at least 100k hands to have any meaningful data to analyze, and drawing a conclusion from this data would be inconclusive. no need to fire off an accusation without being 100% sure.

Maybe for Blackjack it would require a large number of hands but I'm not so sure.

I know you can run a Chi-Test on Craps and if it is blatant cheating you can notice within a few hundred rolls without a shadow of a doubt. Roll Eyes

you should see Michael Shackleford(Wizard of odds) and his test on BLR technologies craps...

I don't care to take this testing this much farther, I guess just stay on Provably fair casinos and always change client seed...all you can do Roll Eyes

shogdite

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So what the best blackjack for bitcoin site out there?

subSTRATA

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:^)

Quote from: krazey on June 25, 2015, 11:08:09 PM

Well if it isn't Provably Fair you should just out this casino's name?

like i said before, this sample size is useless, a sample size of under 100 hands is in no way determinant of fairness or unfairness. you would need at least 100k hands to have any meaningful data to analyze, and drawing a conclusion from this data would be inconclusive. no need to fire off an accusation without being 100% sure.

krazey

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Well if it isn't Provably Fair you should just out this casino's name?

Coef

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Exhausted

Quote from: BKT217 on June 25, 2015, 08:56:13 PM

As for the question of was this a "provabaly fair" casino - NO, tried something different...my bad I guess Cool

Playing on a non-PF site is just asking for trouble IMO.
Not all PF sites are doing right things (eg. dicebitco.in), but at least you can try to verify the bets and can be sure if the site is cheating or not.
On the other hand, when you get incredible rare result on non-PF sites, there is nothing you can do. It could be purely luck, or may be not, who knows?

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Quote from: subSTRATA on June 25, 2015, 09:55:33 PM

Quote from: horace0812 on June 25, 2015, 09:43:52 PM

I think the only fair BJ can only be found in live dealer.
but your sample size is too small to say they cheat, maybe you just unlucky

id say 777coin's blackjack is fair too, ive won some and lost some, seems fair to me.

me too, able to won some at the end on 777.

People usually think of 'unfair' when losing on computer, but actually it also happened in 'live dealer' too,
like dealer got 21 with a '5' opening card, it always happened,
I would say unlucky rather than unfair Wink

subSTRATA

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Quote from: horace0812 on June 25, 2015, 09:43:52 PM

I think the only fair BJ can only be found in live dealer.
but your sample size is too small to say they cheat, maybe you just unlucky

id say 777coin's blackjack is fair too, ive won some and lost some, seems fair to me.

horace0812

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I think the only fair BJ can only be found in live dealer.
but your sample size is too small to say they cheat, maybe you just unlucky

katerniko1

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well this is good Cheesy

you should try nitrogensports.eu blackjack Cheesy

it will make you laugh how much robbing they are doing in it haha.
if you compare nitrogens and this one this one is fair Cheesy

regards.
-Katerniko1

subSTRATA

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:^)

this is a pretty small, and by that i mean ridiculously small sample size to make any judgements or accusations off of, maybe after a few thousand hands at least you could start pointing fingers.

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Play Provably Fair HTML5 Casino's Only.. You'll never get cheated!

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BKT217

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Quote from: Brewins on June 25, 2015, 08:21:30 PM

There is a thing called variance, it might cause the outcomes you get be distant from the mean.

Is the casino provably fair(you would never bet in non provably fair casinos with any significant amount of money), is it live?

yes of course there is variance, of course sample size is small, results mean little.

I had made 4 deposits to the casino in question and all had nearly identical results, I only decided to record on the 4th deposit since I was shocked at how blatent it was...I regret not recording all the hands over the 4 deposits.

As for the question of was this a "provabaly fair" casino - NO, tried something different...my bad I guess Cool

Also curious and perhaps discussion for another topic is why all the provably FAIR blackjack casinos only allow single hand blackjack..besides softswiss(of which I've won alot on) Roll Eyes

SyGambler

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guess who's back

in what site this happen
cause till now this proves nothing , the stats you have provided could happen anytime
how about if you win 20 in a row , or dealer was busted like 6 in a row , would you post that
sometimes it's all about luck , but if you think really that this is unfair then you should do your research about the site

Brewins

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There is a thing called variance, it might cause the outcomes you get be distant from the mean.

Is the casino provably fair(you would never bet in non provably fair casinos with any significant amount of money), is it live?

rz20

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In what site does this happens? It was a software or a live casino?

BKT217

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Won't out the casino since sample size is too small. Undecided

Spreadsheet of dealer hands

https://i.imgur.com/jlTPgLt.png

Takeaways:

69 hands
Dealer Busted 13 times - 18% of the time - expect ~28%
Dealer 21 - 8 times - 11% of the time
Dealer 20 - 7 times - 10.14% of the time
Total dealer 20 or 21: 15 times - 21.73%
Dealer showed 10 or A 42% of the time Cool

Dealer Bust: 18% Dealer 20/21 - 21.73 Roll Eyes

Sample size small, pretty sure they are cheats, won't invest more money to do a real test....

Rigged software is out there...always be cautious.

Topic: Unfair Blackjack (Read 1789 times)