Topic: Unfair to Jr.Members (Read 1007 times)

Because the primary offenders of shit-posting were unfortunately lower ranks like Jr. Members. The only way to stop the mass abuse of current users would be to demote.

At the end of the day, if you're actually interested in posting quality posts in this forum, the 1 merit rule really shouldn't affect you. It's not hard to get 1 merit point.

Why you guys always come here to post and claiming your loss or that 1 merit?
Why don't you try to find a way or a solution instead of complaining here?
That 1 merit is not a big deal if you focus on the things that you want to reach. Stop searching and complaining about merit.

There's a lot of ways to get that,

Read and analyzed the forum rules and regulations first.
Stop searching for merit,
More on reading not on posting.
And lastly, stop complaining.

If you have read theymos' announcement about the new merit requirement for Jr. Members you would have known already why it has a retroactive effect and why all Jr. Members with 0 merits are affected. You would have known the 1 merit requirement is theymos' only way to stop the wave of garbage posts plaguing the forum, he even added a way on how to compensate the demoted Jr. Members and the rest of the newbies where he added 36 new merit sources. Also another benefit to the new system is we are catching accounts who are abusing the merit system in their way of ranking up their newbie accounts in order to be Jr. Members again.

That's why I decided to create my Snow Eagle site. It's a bit like an adopt-a-newbie concept. Once you find a new worthwhile poster, it's worth checking on them every week or so to see if they are continuing the good work.

I think many high-ranked, older accounts are inactive and that might account for why they haven't earned any merits.  That data doesn't take into account how active members are, and I know there are a lot of members who made it to Hero and Legendary, and they simply don't post much anymore.

And some older members like gameristo haven't earned any merits because they're here just to buy bitcoin.  I would imagine there are examples of similar cases with the regulars in the Collectibles section, although I think they do give each other merits there.

Whatever the numbers say, I see it with my own eyes every time I read posts here that the majority of shitposts are from low-ranked members.  There's been a serious influx of new members who heard it's easy to make money on the forum, and that's only happened in the last couple of years since all of these ICO bounties started.  Some of them made it to higher ranks before the merit system was implemented, but they're usually not Sr. Members or above.  They're not earning merits, just like the rest of the bounty spammers aren't.

I'm trying to find Newbie and Jr. Members to give merits to, but man....it's rare to find posts worthy of merit by the lower-ranked peeps.  I actually get a feeling of accomplishment when I do finally come across a good post made by one of them.  It's almost like an Easter egg hunt, except there are only 10 eggs hidden in an area the size of Australia.  Crazy but true.

I saw some newbie or demoted jr. member that has relatively good post. But, they were in the super mega threads which is possible to be seen by mods and also it is unlikely to get for there are many post out there in a single thread compare to this section which thread has only 1 or single page.

I know merit is hard to get but it doesn't mean that one could not get it. It is just a matter of hard work on doing quality posts. It is also a big help on studying merited posts of those higher ranks and you can start those good poster here in this section.

What is really unfair is all the spam generated by newbies. Is really easy for someone to open new accounts and post some trash like an ICO promotion or nonsense posts. If newbies were demoted then it was because the forum is done will all that spam and the only option was to make a drastic move.

To get 1 merit isn't really hard at all, just bring some quality info and merits will come alone.

Seriously, Theymos should increase the copper membership fee.

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Just forgive OP for being a butthurt translator and merit ruined his living and force to pay for copper membership fee.  

I so often come across the word "unfair", coming from newbies, that I don’t even want to prove anything, explain, and protect the necessary innovations.


If peple don`t want to hear you, then probably better to just agree.


Some people complain for whining, and not to find a solution.

Report the posts.

Post the link to the profile so that others could pitch in.

i just saw a legendary member that has a 90% shitpost in their post history and the posts were incredibly worthless than what newbies post here

RIP OP:

4 out of 4. As been stated always that most of them are not here to contribute but to suck out. I hope someday theymos would realize that and will take necessary action for bountry threads. Maybe atleast a full member or higher can only participate with bounty campaigns. Plus a certain necessary merits are also required, so that it will be more cleaner and I also do not believe that we can rely that one to bounty managers cause some of those are also suckers.

Sometimes to have a better achievement, we must do extreme changes.
I believe the requirement for 1 merit to be a Junior rank is fair for everyone.
Like @cryptovigi said all ranks rise 1 merit right now.


Basically, If we want to try improving our selves, I think it is not difficult to make qualities posts. And 1 Merit is not difficult to get If we do many efforts. 

To remember:
Before the implementation of the new regulation, I am sure Theymos realize a big problem related to spam posts. I think Theymos applied it based on many considerations. And applying the regulation is the best way to solve it. 

You have a point but to against the merit system is not right because merit system is the best way to kill the fake account or multi-account we need to work hard to gain our merit if your account is legit. Because of most of the time so many multi-account right now that's the only way go avoid spammer or fake account.

Given the data gathered in the above initial figures, I also think there we need further research on this part.

The data is really alarming (almost half of the legendary not getting a single merit for 9 months?).

regarding your theories
1. If this will be proven, implementing a rule that will give a certain period of time for the high-ranked members to gain a certain number of merit for them not to be demoted is advisable;
2. If they are inactive for the past 9-month, the system/management can pinpoint them and not apply the rule to them? or maybe we can apply on the rule upon their login again?
3. If they are service providers, then we need another exception on them.  But if they are part of this forum and being part of the discussion, it is impossible for them not to gain a single merit for 9 months.  It just means that they are just shitposting.

You have 1 measly merit and you already signed up for one of the shittiest shitcoin sig campaigns around. Please tell me more about your first world problems vis-a-vis merit.

ya man this is some real bullshit up in here. Yall gonna make me lose my mind.

I shoulda been member rank by now.  Jews dont wanna hand out the merits.

Unfair... not likely... but let's discuss...
I have opened a topic in the Beginner section to help newbies (or demoted jr.s) to earn 1 merit, I've only asked to provide 5 meritable posts from the Bitcoin section, but there were only 2 (!!!!!) applicants in three weeks time...
This clearly means for me that
1. Newbies or demoted Jr.s are not posting in the Bitcoin section but in the Off topic or in the Alt section, or
2. Newbies don't need this kind of help because they can earn the necessary 1 merit for themselves somehow, or
3. They just don't care and they only report their social media participation here, and they don't need that single merit at all, or
4. etc....
So to summarize, merit system works, that's all

You don't have to explain to me the table which I created myself ;-)

Unfortunetly you can't say literally that 47% of Legendary are spammers - in fact even I who created this calculation don't know that.  It's because set of data I used for preparing this table. In group of Legendary who didn't get any merit there are all Legendary whose account haven't beed deleted until also a group of users who make their rank years ago and then left the forum or maybe came here only sometimes to have some reading (I have no idea how many of them did this but for sure there are some - according to @mazdafunsun 250 of them wasn't active this year - for sure until 15 August https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4901670.0;all), there are also a group of people who wrote some posts which didn't deserved merits but you couldn't call them spam as well (no one has 100% merited posts).

So the purpose of my calculations was only to show how many ranked users didn't earn any merit at all but I wouldn't never say that all of them are spammers


Agree!!!


You've right since today it targets only low ranked users but except numbers you have remember the scale - there are 50k-60k ranked users without merit and 1.500.000 - 2.000.000 low ranked users (newbies and jr.) without merit. So I have to agree that this group is much more important from the spam's point of view...

however, I didn't change my previous mind at all and stil claim that "it would be really FUN to see some high ranked users fighting to "EARN" their first merit ever ;-) "

Hi XFactor,
There are three possible theories on someone who have not earned any merit more than 9 months till the launch day of merit system:
- They are spammers. During the 9-month period, they kept posting/ spamming; and have not contributed anything deserves merits.
- They have been totally inactive during the 9-month period.
- They are service providers, such as mining pools, Escrow services, bounty managers, etc. Those sort of users mostly hard to get merits.

So, the figures above are only for reference. We need to have a forensic analysis with a bit deeper analysis to be able to really discover the facts.

Because most of the spamming problem starts from newbie and jr.members.

In my perspective if you were still jr.member before the 1 merit system happens you should have to really go back to newbie and prove something that atleast your worth it.

Earning 1 merit is not that hard tho. Plus it is still being highly abvious

If we are talking about fairness, then we can say that it is fair to implement the same rule to the high ranked members - requiring them to earn at least a single merit to maintain their rank and status.

The table below shows that low-ranked members are not the only spammers in this forum but there are only high-ranked members.  Sadly, the merit system can only target new accounts and cannot affect the old spammer accounts.


The merit system discussion always target the spammers having low ranked account.  And your suggestion seems to address the issue of spammers having high-ranked account.  I hope theymos will consider this one.

Given the table above, assuming that the percentage represents members who only spam and cannot earn even a single merit since inception of the merit system, then almost half of the Legendary rank are spammers.  I think this number is alarming if we are really dedicated to lessen the number of spammers in this forum.

If your suggestion implemented in the future, I believe that we will witness a new massive wave of demoted higher-ranked users.
Anyway, I support your ideas.

Yeah, it is really fun to see higher-ranked users, who have not earned any merit more than 9 months after the launch of merit sytem, to be demoted.

You are so correct, the sudden hike in spam and new creation of account happen when merit system was introduced, It now becomes so difficult to rank to a full member or even high rank members. Though the merit system was good for the forum but the effect resulted to high increase in spam and multi-account for bounties. Thanks to 1 merit to Jr.member, it has reduce the spam rate in the forum and recent signature bounty spreadsheet contains just a few number of people.

Seriously I would like to see this happen real soon, I have seen some full member that only have bounty report as their post history, yet they have 100 merit  and some have never earned one single merit since the merit airdrop and still they call Jr members shit-posters, I just wished and hope mods will look into this and implemented it let's see how many high ranking members will get the just one merit and rank up. It will really be fun.

After the bullish market suddenly a lot of new one's accounts appeared here. it turned out that most of it was created by few owners who try to participate in a bounty program with several accounts. and all of these are created in the last few months. so this hurts mostly multi-account bounty hunters and it is certainly fair if they are reluctant to cheat bounty system.

I am having a dilemma about this:

I agree with you cause: Many people were participating in a signature campaign of some ICOs and were demoted and kicked out. I think if there is to be a new ruling, it should be for new members.

I also disagree with you cause I see people with 100+ activities and zero merit. These people have definitely not "tried" at all to do anything helpful in the forum and still get to enjoy their rank because they shitposted non-stop. So I do think that these should be demoted.

So I don't know man. I just feel like it's hard to be the moderators of such a huge forum.

The forum was deviating from the foundation on which it was built upon as spam and spam megathreads was the order of the day,its really difficult for the MODS to control all that,especially with the Altcoin and Bitcoin discussion sections, the Mods must be super humans going through those sections

1 merit to become a junior member isn't unfair instead it's incentivizing,it works two ways, helps you learn more and helps the forum reduce spam.
It's been fairly a success thus far as there is no need you drawing us back to the past..

We've moved on from all that now, all we need from you now is to offer help to someone anytime you have the chance and whenever you wanna create a thread,make sure it's better than this one

Before Merit system was first implemented it was NOT possible to get any merit even from excellent posts.  I believe it was because of this, that the old users were given merit from the activity they had at that point.
There are lots of old and really excellent and informative posts from many old users ( eg. Gmaxwell,  Dannyhamilton & Satoshi   just to mention a few ) and it would be a shame if those posts had not been "merited" at all.

Of-course it is true, that those old users who did not make many useful posts benefited from it too. Giving those users 1000 merits is quite a lot in today's standards.

The "new" Jr members however have been able to earn merits from day 1. That is, IF they have made good posts.

Now, that would be interesting   

The forum already had 2million+ members, and majority were Jr members. And they were targeted to be the problem, so airdropping merits would be aiding them to continue spamming.

I was lucky to get merited early after the announcements, it's difficult with bounty tasks, but I try to keep my comment helpful and productive. So we never go back to the way we were.

Just make 1, decent enough post and you're back being jr. And don't just automatically demand merit without adding any value to the forums. That's hardly an unreasonable request.

I think that in the Bitcointalk forum there is nothing unfair, the clear rules for all members to get privileges no distinguish A and B as long as they are in accordance with the rules of the forum.
Who makes it unfair we ourselves? Which we do not want to think a little with creative ideas for the progress of the forum. What we have in mind is money, bounty and bounty.

[BOUNTY]

[Bounties Altcoins]

Well, why don't we think of a little to be better in the forum. By giving benefit to others, ( don't concern ourselves).

Before Theymos implement the new system there are hundreds... or thousands of Jr. members who're spammer or shitposters and spreading spams in the forum.

The main goal of merit system is to control the spammers and shitposters in ranking up in to avoid joining bounty campaigns and if you're going to give 1 merits to those shitposters then the spam will be there and will not be gone, having a 1 merit is not a problem if you in yourself know that you can earn it by posting informative or constructive posts.

Theymos obviously knows where the spamming problem comes from, which is why he made the change the way he did.  It might not seem fair to those junior members who got busted back down to noob status, but all they have to do is earn one single merit to move back up in rank.  I would also add that the only folks who really care about how unfair it seems are the ones concerned solely with how much advertising they can put in their signature space. 

In any case, the change was already made.  Making new threads bitching about it isn't going to somehow change Theymos's mind and might actually put you on people's ignore list.  The whining started probably within the first hour after Jr. Members with no merit went back to Newbie, and it's time for it to stop. 

Not sure what OP is complaining about anyway, since he earned 1 merit and has a copper membership.  Makes me wonder how many alt accounts he's in control of.

There's a reason why the merit requirement was increased by 1 for Jr members saying it's unfair means you want spam to continue. You should've read this thread before making this post.

If only those Jr members that got demoted focused more on what they're posting rather than doing bounties they should've earned at least one by now.

No. If you can't get one merit then you probably don't deserve to be a Junior Member anyway. Many people would argue that no merit should have been 'airdropped' in the first place, but I don't think we should be making everyone a Junior just because of when they signed up, and if you can't get one merit then that's something they're going to have to figure out for themselves. If we allowed this then there'd be a hell of a lot of bots and farmed accounts that would be able to continue on with their shitposting shenanigans.

Fuck off already

What to say..  Life isn't always fair..
It was said a thousand times that one merit isn't much so everybody can achieve it...
But in fact we could be more fair... Let's rise every rank requirements for 1 merit

jr. member - 1 merit,
member - 11 merits,
full member - 101 merits,
senior member - 251 merits,
hero member - 501 merits,
legendary - 1001 merits

I think it would be really FUN to see some high ranked users fighting to "EARN" their first merit ever ;-)

Newbies unable to get just 1 merit needs to think again about what they are doing here or simply find another forum to spam on it.

I think you question is , why are Jr. member's didn't received airdrop merit? If I am not wrong than MagicSmoker already answered you. The new merit system implemented to prevent spam, not to motivate spammer. That's the reason Jr. Members has not received airdrop merit. And it's just only 1 merit, not too much. I believe thoes are quality poster, they have earned 1 merit within week. Still receiving everyday. I don't think it is too hard to earn 1 merit for quality poster. So there is not appropriate reason to distribute airdrop merit. And it's not unfair for quality poster, it's unfair for spambie.

You really think you are the first person to say this in the month since the retroactive requirement for 1 merit to reach jr. member was introduced?

The reason it was made retroactive was to stop the immense amount of sig campaign spamming going on from jr. members who had yet to earn a single merit despite having made hundreds (in some cases thousands) of posts. If it wasn't made retroactive it only would have prevented new sig campaign shitposters from coming online; all the existing shitposters would still be able to ply their filthy trade.

Like any organism, all this forum can do is make a change, watch what happens, then make another change as needed.

First off, I agree with the implementation of 1 Merit for Jr. Members, but I find it unfair that those who were already Jr.Members were demoted to Newbie again, it's just unfair, they should have received 1 Merit from the System automatically and so only new members would be needed to get 1 Merit. When merit was implemented everyone automatically received Merit based on activity, so why is it now different?