Unique way to cheat the forum- Paid bumping

aksen

jr. member

Activity: 49

Merit: 2

Quote from: shilova on June 24, 2018, 01:07:17 AM

A bigger problem with this issue is that now if no action is taken on this, it will encourage more spammers to use same techniques. There are enough excuses already given by members here to justify this.

Actually, I have seen more such tasks on the same site after I posted this. This seems something out of the control of the forum staff now.

loggin

newbie

Activity: 31

Merit: 0

Quote from: hilariousetc on June 22, 2018, 05:18:47 AM

Why don't you waste your time doing that and see how helpful it is. I doubt they'll even reply and the info probably wouldn't be relevant or helpful. All they'll be able to give you at most is the email address or IP they signed up with and I dount they'll have used one that can be tied directly back to their ICO.

Because i do not have any authority to do so. Do you think that it would have same impact if a nobody asks them for details as compared to someone involved with the forum like the staff.

Also, if you have seen the way micro tasks websites operate, there are websites which contact them and get tasks related to their web property removed. Some websites are thus excluded on these micro jobs sites forever.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: LoyceV on June 22, 2018, 01:38:21 PM

Quote from: MagicSmoker on June 22, 2018, 09:04:08 AM

I get that nuking the thread absent any solid proof might still be seen as drastic, so how about temporarily locking it for, say, 7 days, or until the OP cleans up all the spammy posts?

Even if he deletes all the spam from bump bots, the goal is still accomplished: the thread stays on top thanks to the spam.

A follow up after reading this:

Quote from: Roomdao CEO on June 23, 2018, 03:14:40 AM

We ask our community to leave a comment and their opinion about ROOMDAO.

Quote from: Roomdao CEO on June 23, 2018, 09:39:36 AM

We ask our community to say something about us

That's incentivizing posting, and against the rules. The thread should be nuked. Let me just report it and see what happens.

shilova

newbie

Activity: 2

Merit: 0

A bigger problem with this issue is that now if no action is taken on this, it will encourage more spammers to use same techniques. There are enough excuses already given by members here to justify this.

MagicSmoker

full member

Activity: 420

Merit: 184

Quote from: LoyceV on June 22, 2018, 01:38:21 PM

Quote from: MagicSmoker on June 22, 2018, 09:04:08 AM

I get that nuking the thread absent any solid proof might still be seen as drastic, so how about temporarily locking it for, say, 7 days, or until the OP cleans up all the spammy posts?

Even if he deletes all the spam from bump bots, the goal is still accomplished: the thread stays on top thanks to the spam.

Yes, I imagine the bump bots will continue posting even as the OP is deleting. I'm not really seeing any downsides to temporarily locking the thread, then. There has to be a smarter way of dealing with this rather than individually deleting posts or banning users (however much both may be deserved). I mean, a mod could literally spend all day on that Roomdao thread and only tread water, so to speak; the spammy shitposts begin on page 1 and continue, unrelenting, for the next 170+ pages...

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: MagicSmoker on June 22, 2018, 09:04:08 AM

I get that nuking the thread absent any solid proof might still be seen as drastic, so how about temporarily locking it for, say, 7 days, or until the OP cleans up all the spammy posts?

Even if he deletes all the spam from bump bots, the goal is still accomplished: the thread stays on top thanks to the spam.

MagicSmoker

full member

Activity: 420

Merit: 184

Quote from: eddie13 on May 08, 2018, 09:58:21 PM

Quote from: Quickseller on May 07, 2018, 12:33:10 AM

Quote from: eddie13 on May 06, 2018, 11:14:20 PM

That should merit a ban for the AAN OP no? Other company accounts too?

How do you know anyone related to the project is behind this?

You are right, this would make a great setup to damage your competition..

What if the ANN thread is self-moderated by the OP? If the OP is not actively pruning shitposts after, say, 24 hours, then it seems reasonable to conclude this is not a case of a competitor attempting to tar the competition.

EDIT - for example, here is a rather egregious violator: the Roomdao ANN thread.

This is a self-moderated thread that is seeing a new post every 2-3 minutes on average, and virtually none of those 3400+ posts is worth a crap. Thus, we can safely conclude that this is not a competitor trying to frame Roomdao for incentivizing posting to its ANN.

I get that nuking the thread absent any solid proof might still be seen as drastic, so how about temporarily locking it for, say, 7 days, or until the OP cleans up all the spammy posts? If the goal of paid bumping is to keep a thread on the first page then locking the thread, even temporarily, will ensure it falls far, far behind. I mean, just a 6 hour delay takes you back 5-6 pages!

hilariousetc

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 3061

Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

Hard to believe people will waste at least six minutes of their time for a mere ten cents Roll Eyes

. Yet another reason why there should be some restrictions on brand new accounts.

Quote from: Quickseller on May 07, 2018, 11:41:15 PM

I don’t think shadow banning newbies will be very effective in combating this. Users will not necessarily use low level accounts to make these kinds of posts. I have previously suggested that Ann threads with a post within xx time be displayed in a random order, which would effectively make bumping more than once per day pointless.

The ones who are only hearing about bitcointalk through that listing will be using brand new accounts. None of them are going to buy an account to do so. At ten cents per post it's probably only brand new desperados that are even going to bother with it.

Quote from: loggin on June 21, 2018, 10:57:41 PM

Quote from: Thirdspace on May 12, 2018, 03:42:45 AM

but it doesn't rule out the possibility that it could be initiated by the ANN owner itself
need some solid proofs and probably quite hard to find in this case

Not very hard, staff here can contact the webmaster of that micro jobs site and then ask the details of the person posting this job . Then it can be matched with the ANN owner and this can be confirmed. It will take few minutes and help us get rid of a scammer here.

Why don't you waste your time doing that and see how helpful it is. I doubt they'll even reply and the info probably wouldn't be relevant or helpful. All they'll be able to give you at most is the email address or IP they signed up with and I dount they'll have used one that can be tied directly back to their ICO.

loggin

newbie

Activity: 31

Merit: 0

Quote from: Thirdspace on May 12, 2018, 03:42:45 AM

but it doesn't rule out the possibility that it could be initiated by the ANN owner itself
need some solid proofs and probably quite hard to find in this case

Not very hard, staff here can contact the webmaster of that micro jobs site and then ask the details of the person posting this job . Then it can be matched with the ANN owner and this can be confirmed. It will take few minutes and help us get rid of a scammer here.

Many members here do not understand the dept of this problem. A member cheating a signature campaign affects oen person , the person paying for that campaign. But in this case, all people buying that coins because of more visibility due to this paid bumping are affected.

Thirdspace

hero member

Activity: 1232

Merit: 738

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Quote from: aksen on May 11, 2018, 10:19:32 PM

I hope no competitor will do this now because the forum staff does not care about such cases or is not in position to confirm the abuse as it is outside the forum. And in such a case, who would like to pay to give free bumps (more exposure) to their campaigns.

that's what they have in their minds, forum staff or mod won't do extra mile to check outside (unless provided by users)

Quote from: aksen on May 11, 2018, 10:19:32 PM

And in such a case, who would like to pay to give free bumps (more exposure) to their campaigns.

why wouldn't they if they feel that would get rid the competitor easily and draw more attention to his own project
they are allocating a lot money on bounty etc, why not throw a couple thousands on this 'malicious bumping'
on the image it shows 229/³²², so only cost him $32.2 (322*$0,1)

but it doesn't rule out the possibility that it could be initiated by the ANN owner itself
need some solid proofs and probably quite hard to find in this case

Zapo

copper member

Activity: 224

Merit: 156

Stay Dangerous!

Quote from: LoyceV on May 07, 2018, 10:40:23 AM

Quote from: Welsh on May 07, 2018, 07:44:31 AM

I think the argument that Quickseller is on referring too is that if an announcement thread was trashed for this without offering an incentive to post competitors of the ICO/Altcoin could sabotage other projects like this.

These are of course valid arguments. But meanwhile many threads have thousands of useless comments, all competing to be on the first page. Worst spammer wins!

Suggestion
Would it be possible to ignore Newbie-posts when sorting on "Last post" in the Altcoin boards? That would make it impossible for a Newbie to bump a thread (while they can still post). If needed, this can be increased to higher ranks too.

Really like this suggestion!

I'm up for this.

aksen

jr. member

Activity: 49

Merit: 2

Quote from: Thirdspace on May 09, 2018, 06:40:22 AM

exactly! that microtask could've been created/paid by its competitors
this is a very devious, sometimes more effective, way to take down your rival
maybe it's true that the ANN OP might have something to do with it, but we need to find proof

I hope no competitor will do this now because the forum staff does not care about such cases or is not in position to confirm the abuse as it is outside the forum. And in such a case, who would like to pay to give free bumps (more exposure) to their campaigns.

Thirdspace

hero member

Activity: 1232

Merit: 738

Mixing reinvented for your privacy | chipmixer.com

Quote from: loggin on May 07, 2018, 07:19:10 AM

Nice, so all such threads can do this outside this forum and getaway with this excuse.

it's not an excuse but rather to avoid false accusation

Quote from: eddie13 on May 08, 2018, 09:58:21 PM

You are right, this would make a great setup to damage your competition..

exactly! that microtask could've been created/paid by its competitors
this is a very devious, sometimes more effective, way to take down your rival
maybe it's true that the ANN OP might have something to do with it, but we need to find proof

eddie13

legendary

Activity: 2296

Merit: 2262

BTC or BUST

Quote from: Quickseller on May 07, 2018, 12:33:10 AM

Quote from: eddie13 on May 06, 2018, 11:14:20 PM

That should merit a ban for the AAN OP no? Other company accounts too?

How do you know anyone related to the project is behind this?

You are right, this would make a great setup to damage your competition..

botany

legendary

Activity: 1582

Merit: 1064

Quote from: fokinlipat on May 07, 2018, 11:57:22 PM

I am not sure how much the staff here is interested in finding out the real person behind this project. But if they drop an email to the owner of that website asking for details giving proper reason, they might help. Additionally, they may even such sites to stop approving these type of campaigns.

On some of the micro job sites I have used in past, there are restrictions for creating posts related to certain websites. It must be because those sites complained to that micro job website.

The persons behind the campaign are not important at all. Neither is the product. What matters is whether the announcement thread follows the forum rules and if not how they can be enforced.

mobilazy

member

Activity: 308

Merit: 22

Hate to see that cheaters and spammers are winning. And good projects stays in a shade. Many projects ask bounty hunters to do a "bumping" in order to their stakes to be counted. And now all these paid services. I just disabled [ANN] thread completely in a view settings. Won't step foot there and rather use ICOdrop and similar. Sadly I have to use an information outside of this forum to learn about new crypto projects.

fokinlipat

jr. member

Activity: 187

Merit: 2

I am not sure how much the staff here is interested in finding out the real person behind this project. But if they drop an email to the owner of that website asking for details giving proper reason, they might help. Additionally, they may even such sites to stop approving these type of campaigns.

On some of the micro job sites I have used in past, there are restrictions for creating posts related to certain websites. It must be because those sites complained to that micro job website.

Quickseller

copper member

Activity: 2996

Merit: 2374

I don’t think shadow banning newbies will be very effective in combating this. Users will not necessarily use low level accounts to make these kinds of posts. I have previously suggested that Ann threads with a post within xx time be displayed in a random order, which would effectively make bumping more than once per day pointless.

We don’t know if the people behind this project are the ones financing this spam, or if it is a compeating project trying to make this coin look bad. Technically speaking, we don’t know that as many people have bumped the thread as the screenshot implies have bumped the thread.

The screenshot says that people must ask at least a 30 word question, so it is unlikely that most of these posts will violate the no low/no content posts rule.

I think the best corse of action would be to make others aware of this practice and not take extreme steps to stomp it out. Trying to stomp out this activity will only create a false sense of security and result in potential investors unaware of the risk this is happening. If potential investors are warned about this behavior, they can take it into consideration when deciding to invest.

aksen

jr. member

Activity: 49

Merit: 2

The solution you guys are suggesting here is that the replies made by newbies should be ignored. If that is implemented, these guys will start another campaign asking junior members or above to bump the thread.

In case the thread in question is able to get away with this even after being reported, he will have a good laugh. It will encourage him to do this on large scale or even other thread owners will do the same. These bumps may seem minor violation to some but these expose new members to such scam projects. Since , this is being done through this forum, it is the responsibility of the staff to tackle this.

Welsh

staff

Activity: 3304

Merit: 4115

Quote from: LoyceV on May 07, 2018, 10:40:23 AM

Suggestion
Would it be possible to ignore Newbie-posts when sorting on "Last post" in the Altcoin boards? That would make it impossible for a Newbie to bump a thread (while they can still post). If needed, this can be increased to higher ranks too.

I quite like this suggestion. Would reduce most of the spam, and make legitimate threads with worthy discussion easier to find. I don't see much harm in it either. I guess we'll have a few people complain about equality but, honestly I think the pros greatly outweigh the cons in this.

Quote from: botany on May 07, 2018, 11:59:30 AM

That would work. It would make the use and throw accounts created just for the purpose of bumping ineffective.
But it seems to be a solution tailored for this particular problem. You would introduce a layer of complexity, without attacking the root cause.

I'm not normally one for imposing restrictions, but I feel that adding this would be beneficial. You can make a sticky highlighting that newbies can't bump topics, and for those who take no notice of stickies will likely not even notice that the topic isn't getting bumped.

botany

legendary

Activity: 1582

Merit: 1064

Quote from: LoyceV on May 07, 2018, 10:40:23 AM

Quote from: Welsh on May 07, 2018, 07:44:31 AM

I think the argument that Quickseller is on referring too is that if an announcement thread was trashed for this without offering an incentive to post competitors of the ICO/Altcoin could sabotage other projects like this.

These are of course valid arguments. But meanwhile many threads have thousands of useless comments, all competing to be on the first page. Worst spammer wins!

Suggestion
Would it be possible to ignore Newbie-posts when sorting on "Last post" in the Altcoin boards? That would make it impossible for a Newbie to bump a thread (while they can still post). If needed, this can be increased to higher ranks too.

That would work. It would make the use and throw accounts created just for the purpose of bumping ineffective.
But it seems to be a solution tailored for this particular problem. You would introduce a layer of complexity, without attacking the root cause.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: Welsh on May 07, 2018, 07:44:31 AM

I think the argument that Quickseller is on referring too is that if an announcement thread was trashed for this without offering an incentive to post competitors of the ICO/Altcoin could sabotage other projects like this.

These are of course valid arguments. But meanwhile many threads have thousands of useless comments, all competing to be on the first page. Worst spammer wins!

Suggestion
Would it be possible to ignore Newbie-posts when sorting on "Last post" in the Altcoin boards? That would make it impossible for a Newbie to bump a thread (while they can still post). If needed, this can be increased to higher ranks too.

Welsh

staff

Activity: 3304

Merit: 4115

Quote from: loggin on May 07, 2018, 07:19:10 AM

Nice, so all such threads can do this outside this forum and getaway with this excuse.

I think the argument that Quickseller is on referring too is that if an announcement thread was trashed for this without offering an incentive to post competitors of the ICO/Altcoin could sabotage other projects like this. Of course, if the replies don't get removed then it would be giving them free advertising and be pretty counter productive.

I think it's just best to report posts that are bumping the thread individually unless, the team is offering an incentive for posting in their threads and then the announcement thread would then be removed which effectively deals with both issues.

loggin

newbie

Activity: 31

Merit: 0

Quote from: Quickseller on May 07, 2018, 12:33:10 AM

How do you know anyone related to the project is behind this?
[/quote]

Nice, so all such threads can do this outside this forum and getaway with this excuse.

Quickseller

copper member

Activity: 2996

Merit: 2374

Quote from: eddie13 on May 06, 2018, 11:14:20 PM

That should merit a ban for the AAN OP no? Other company accounts too?

How do you know anyone related to the project is behind this?

eddie13

legendary

Activity: 2296

Merit: 2262

BTC or BUST

That should merit a ban for the AAN OP no? Other company accounts too?

Sure would put a dent in their eBIT game.. Anywhere to get short on it?

aksen

jr. member

Activity: 49

Merit: 2

Thread in question:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-airdrop-free-airdrops-ebit-3rd-of-7-rounds-2275080

They have created a listing on a micro job site to bump their thread.

Proofs:

The link in second image is https://goo.gl/rVtz5T which points to above thread. Current task status in image 1 is above 200 which means that more than 200 replies on that threads are paid bumps. If you check posts there, most replies are from new accounts and some even raised doubts on that thread.

Topic: Unique way to cheat the forum- Paid bumping (Read 579 times)