Unwarranted ECB claims about BTCs "last stand"

Lucius

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Quote from: thecodebear on February 07, 2023, 09:20:57 PM

It's funny this was only two months ago the ECB was talking about Bitcoin's last stand. And it's up 40% so far this year.
The funniest thing in Bitcoin is always to see all the people desperately trying to convince everyone during every crypto winter that Bitcoin is heading to zero, and then watching them all shut up as soon as Bitcoin's price starts going up again.

The job of central banks is to protect national currencies at all costs, and this does not exclude influencing public opinion through their statements, which are always adapted to the moment in which they are released to the public. In addition, the head of the ECB is a woman who has repeatedly made statements that are completely negative when it comes to Bitcoin, although it can always be read between the lines that they see a much greater threat in stablecoins, which are a far greater threat to the system they represent.

pooya87

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It is always funny to see heads of the banking cartels around the world criticize bitcoin while they are knee deep in corruption and all kinds of illegal activities. Their statements and so called "predictions" are also always their hopes. For example here, they are hoping that bitcoin falls down and they will do everything in their power to make that happen. Hence this article.

In any case the article shared here is the prime example of a propaganda. They use some facts to convince you of the bullshit conclusion they want to make. For example they point out the fall from $69k but never tell you that price went from $3k to the current $20k if you zoom out!

Of course in case of ECB they have no answer for how Euro is dumping and how it will dump a lot more in the future when all the money they've been printing starts showing up in inflation rates. So they have to bash bitcoin hoping nobody chooses BTC trying to escape EUR dump.

franky1

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funny part is
get two fiat economists from the ECB into a room and show them a market chart of he barrel price of oil for the last 50 years

one will say the market of $4-$140 shows that $130 is a strong market rate of growth and demand and blah

one will say the market of $4-$140 shows that $130 is a sign of going premium rate of turmoil and crisis

but both would agree that when oil is under $20 its a great value and a great time to invest in oil stocks

..
same applies to bitcoin
value (bottom) is good for investment.. premium(top) is bad for investment

in short buy low sell high

..
the two would also agree that a true "growth scale"
is where the 50year bottom of oil is $3 the 25 year bottom is $12 and the 5 year bottom is 20
showing that the market refuses to sell down to $3 meaning there is a strong value rate of growth

bitcoin has the same
2010-2012(pre halv) low 0.07
(post halv)2012-16(prehalv) low >$10
(post halv)2016-20(prehalv) low >$500
(post halv)2020-2x(prehalv) low >$3k

..
anyone that uses a temporary ATH market price as a "value point" is a failed economist
value is always based on the lows, not the highs

Darker45

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Quote from: thecodebear on February 07, 2023, 09:20:57 PM

It's funny this was only two months ago the ECB was talking about Bitcoin's last stand. And it's up 40% so far this year.

The funniest thing in Bitcoin is always to see all the people desperately trying to convince everyone during every crypto winter that Bitcoin is heading to zero, and then watching them all shut up as soon as Bitcoin's price starts going up again.

This has happened countless of times already. The short history of Bitcoin is full of critics proven wrong. What's surprising is that it seems they never learned their lessons. They don't mind looking funny and ridiculous like clueless clowns predicting the death of Bitcoin over and over again.

I remembered one prediction that Bitcoin is going extinct. That was made almost a decade ago.

https://twitter.com/pete_rizzo_/status/1609168866202062848/photo/1

But these same critics might once again predict Bitcoin's death, last stand, extinction, bursting, and all their synonyms when its price fell from $300,000 to $80,000.

thecodebear

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It's funny this was only two months ago the ECB was talking about Bitcoin's last stand. And it's up 40% so far this year.

The funniest thing in Bitcoin is always to see all the people desperately trying to convince everyone during every crypto winter that Bitcoin is heading to zero, and then watching them all shut up as soon as Bitcoin's price starts going up again.

Pmalek

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Maybe the ECB knows or plans something on a large scale we don't yet know about. Corporations and institutions don't fight clean. We already know what their opinion of Bitcoin is and that they will do everything in their power to have it destroyed. One way to do that is attacking the security infrastructure that preserves the network. They are not going to do it like that because they would look like the bad guys. But if you wrap your plans up in a colorful package explaining how a bitcoin mining ban stops climate change, makes life on earth more sustainable, cleaner, and safer for everyone, you will get enough idiots on your side. Getting their corrupt friends to accept their plans of a EU-wide mining ban coupled with the same thing in the US would create devastating consequences.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on December 05, 2022, 03:12:04 PM

Self preservation. As soon as they lose the ability to control your money, they lose all the power and relevance they ever had.

I would love to live in that world one day. I just don't see that happening in my lifetime. A worldwide revolution is required against centralized institutions of power. But this terrified population isn't going to do anything. A small minority will and does from time to time, but they get dealt with quickly.

LoyceV

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on December 05, 2022, 03:12:04 PM

Perhaps the ECB should pay less attention to bitcoin and more attention to how the euro is doing...

That graph is going exactly as ECB intended. They just need people to believe there's no alternative that isn't based on infinite inflation, because ECB needs people to want their own (made-up Cheesy

) currency.

I'm pretty sure Bitcoin will still exist 100 years from now. I'm not so sure about the euro: ever since it was created, they're mostly doing crisis management. None of that's going to help, because the fundamental flaw is still there: Northern Europe isn't the same as Southern Europe.

The real question is of course: why do all those "Bitcoin is dead" organisations feel the need to continuously talk about it? They're not saying the Argentine Peso is dead, because that one doesn't pose a threat to their own power. The only reason they talk about Bitcoin, is because Bitcoin has potential. And if bankers and politicians tell me Bitcoin is bad, I know I'm on to something.

avikz

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Quote from: ChillyMatthew on December 05, 2022, 12:20:12 PM

Hi crypto fam.

So the ECB is making some strange claims that this is Bitcoin's "last stand before the road to irrelevance," citing that BTC is down 77% from its last all-time high. How can this be true when everything that's been going around since the launch of BTC just goes against that claim?

ECB has some vested interest in bringing down bitcoin or POW mining to be precise. They have already created a certain proposals for the EU countries which are still being debated but the motto of the proposal is to ban any type of POW cryptocurrency from the soil of EU. So it's no wonder that ECB is making statements essentially demeaning bitcoin and cryptocurrency in general.

However, these are speculations! It will definitely be tough if the ban proposal is passed in EU parliament. But even then, that will be temporary. As EU miners will shut down, the difficulty will reduce. So a lot of old miners from different parts of the world may come back into action to fill in the blank. So I personally don't see a reason to belive in ECB and its statements.

franky1

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Quote from: Z-tight on December 06, 2022, 05:05:30 AM

Quote from: franky1 on December 05, 2022, 03:59:39 PM

when a bear market happens. its not a "crash". its a CORRECTION back to value after a rampant ATH temporary spike

I believe i understand the "BTC four year cycle" a bit more now.

Correct me if i am wrong, a halving happens, then followed by the bull run of which BTC will go above its previous ATH and set a new one temporarily,

bitcoins first price discovery was in 2010 not 2009. so the first cycle is off

but basically
on a halving year.
the price at start is double at end(atleast)
2012 6-12 (wel 4-15 to be exact)
2016 450-900
2020 4k-8k (well actually it went up more)

then a year after halving the miners fight and push up a massive amount
(2011 $32)
2013 $1.2k
2017 $20k
2021 $70k

Quote from: Z-tight on December 06, 2022, 05:05:30 AM

and then the winter period follows with a correction back to a new value higher than what it was previously, but way lower than what the temporary ATH was. That means even at the bottom of every BTC winter season, BTC's value increases from what it was previously, but people hardly notice because they are only concerned with the ATH price.

2010-2012(pre halv) low 0.07
(post halv)2012-16(prehalv) low >$10
(post halv)2016-20(prehalv) low >$500
(post halv)2020-2x(prehalv) low >$3k

hZti

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I was at the ECB in Frankfurt in 2013 and talked to them about bitcoin. Nobody had any clue what it was and how it worked. Only few of them ever heard the name even at that point. If you now want them to fully understand bitcoin you for shure need to give them another 10-20 years Cheesy

Z-tight

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Quote from: franky1 on December 05, 2022, 03:59:39 PM

when a bear market happens. its not a "crash". its a CORRECTION back to value after a rampant ATH temporary spike

I believe i understand the "BTC four year cycle" a bit more now.

Correct me if i am wrong, a halving happens, then followed by the bull run of which BTC will go above its previous ATH and set a new one temporarily, and then the winter period follows with a correction back to a new value higher than what it was previously, but way lower than what the temporary ATH was. That means even at the bottom of every BTC winter season, BTC's value increases from what it was previously, but people hardly notice because they are only concerned with the ATH price.

franky1

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they are very "desperate"

a better economist. which you would have thought the ECB would hier seeing as they are the big main bank of EU.. would come up with better arguments that can atleast be backed up with basic true economic understandings of value and utility of currency

just reading their crap. all i can see is they need to go back to school and learn that value is not a high price. and price is not value.

they have not learned even basic economics

lets use a banana

on tusday its 20cents
on wednesday its 60cents
on thursday its 25cents

wednesdays high is not value or valuable.. its a premium. and less value
coming down from wednesday and into thursday is not "value dropping". its actually the premium PRICE dropping back down to a MORE value amount

thecodebear

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Yeah well this is coming from the ECB so it can simply be laughed at. They sound EXTREMELY desperate. Everyone knows Bitcoin goes through volatile narket cycles and this is just the bottom of the current cycle. ECB is just trying to hurt Bitcoin in the media while they have the chance during the bear market, as soooo many people do.

ECB is afraid of Bitcoin's power. This isnt the first time they've attacked Bitcoin baselessly, and it wont be the last. Its comical really.

franky1

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Quote from: Z-tight on December 05, 2022, 03:49:54 PM

Quote from: ChillyMatthew on December 05, 2022, 12:20:12 PM

Do you think this bear cycle will be more severe than previous ones? What are your thoughts about these claims?

It does not matter how severe the bear cycle is or will be, the bear cycle does not affect the BTC network, only its price,

what people forget is sustainable value. is not sat at the ATH where very few do trade in such a short window of a few hours of that ATH date

value is at the bottom where everyone tests the bottom and when they cant get it any lower. thats the value

when a bear market happens. its not a "crash". its a CORRECTION back to value after a rampant ATH temporary spike

if there is a massive spike ofcourse there is going to be a correction..

if you are worried about massive correction then you are saying there would have to have been a massive spike days/months before.

you cant have your cake and then more cake.. you have to chew inbetween

so sell the high, buy the low. and stop panicking and start picnicking
chew between slices. dont swallow and choke

goldkingcoiner

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Quote from: ChillyMatthew on December 05, 2022, 12:20:12 PM

Hi crypto fam.

So the ECB is making some strange claims that this is Bitcoin's "last stand before the road to irrelevance," citing that BTC is down 77% from its last all-time high. How can this be true when everything that's been going around since the launch of BTC just goes against that claim?

So, to summarize, the ECB is essentially asserting that Bitcoin's end is drawing near. But it seems like the ECB's assertion is... unjustified if we consider the reasoning they've provided, as well as the present problems with Bitcoin.

AND, if you look at Bitcoin's history, it has also had some bumps in the road (2014 and 2018), but Bitcoin has had massive returns to offset these bearish years.

Do you think this bear cycle will be more severe than previous ones? What are your thoughts about these claims?

I'm just out here wondering on what basis they're making such assumptions.

Sources:

https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=BVIvsN&mc=9M&s=BtgXWnG&u=QcLhh&z=EVQsIuo&

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/blog/date/2022/html/ecb.blog221130~5301eecd19.en.html

As always, someone always is trying to "kill Bitcoin". Again.

No matter how many articles like this come out and no matter who is speaking against Bitcoin. They have not been able to succeed and they will never succeed. All they do is fight against the waves of the future.

I have seen articles like this everyday for the last decade. Not a single one could predict that Bitcoin would grow to over 60k.

Time to stop listening to the doomsayers.

Z-tight

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Quote from: ChillyMatthew on December 05, 2022, 12:20:12 PM

Do you think this bear cycle will be more severe than previous ones? What are your thoughts about these claims?

It does not matter how severe the bear cycle is or will be, the bear cycle does not affect the BTC network, only its price, which happens only for the meantime, and that surely can't mean the end of BTC. These claims are just made to make people hate BTC so they would not control their own money, which favors the ECB.

The ECB has no fact against BTC and that's why they have no claim at all, or a very weak one. BTC does not have any issues with its security, the network cannot be controlled, mining is going on fine and the hash rate is very high, the BTC network cannot be breached or hacked or taken over by a miner or mining pool, if any of these things ever went or goes the other way, which it obviously can't, then the ECB or any other centralized body can now talk about BTC's last stand, but until then they can only deceive people who are not knowledgeable.

decodx

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The only thing that the ECB seems to have concluded in this report is that, should bitcoin become a threat to their existence, they will fight it with everything they've got. This is a good example of how various central banks across the world are struggling to adapt to the changing financial landscape and how they continue to try and paint Bitcoin in as negative a light as possible. The ECB's report is nothing but an attempt at discrediting the cryptocurrency, and it doesn't take much reading between the lines to understand that they don't like competition.

Unfortunately for them, the facts have a bad habit of getting in the way of their rhetoric.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: ChillyMatthew on December 05, 2022, 12:20:12 PM

So the ECB is making some strange claims that this is Bitcoin's "last stand before the road to irrelevance," citing that BTC is down 77% from its last all-time high.

Perhaps the ECB should pay less attention to bitcoin and more attention to how the euro is doing...

Quote from: ChillyMatthew on December 05, 2022, 12:20:12 PM

So, to summarize, the ECB is essentially asserting that Bitcoin's end is drawing near.

A centralized bank, who will be soon launching their own centralized digital currency, and whose very existence depends on bitcoin not succeeding, says that bitcoin's end is near. Roll Eyes

In other news, world's biggest typewriter manufacturer thinks computers are too complicated and too expensive and will soon die out.

Quote from: ChillyMatthew on December 05, 2022, 12:20:12 PM

I'm just out here wondering on what basis they're making such assumptions.

Self preservation. As soon as they lose the ability to control your money, they lose all the power and relevance they ever had.

darkangel11

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Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody

There's already a thread about it in bitcoin discussion and I've covered everything in this post
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.61388612

In short, there's nothing to be worried about. The ECB is drowning and it's trying to sink its claws into everyone and everything to keep itself afloat. They should rather be worried about the countries in the EU who despite signing EUR acceptance haven't done so after many years of being in the union. Their own foot soldiers don't want to wear the uniform Cheesy

Hispo

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Bitcoin does not have a road to irrelevance as long as oppressive governments and organizations continue to push their payment systems and ecosystems with draconian terms of service and centralized chains of command, favoring censorship in several cases.

One would assume that being able to receive and send money is a right, even in this technological era, but it seems it is not.
The bull runs help to spread awareness of Bitcoin, but it is not only about the speculation, as most of us already know.

fennic

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Quote from: ChillyMatthew on December 05, 2022, 12:20:12 PM

Hi crypto fam.

So the ECB is making some strange claims that this is Bitcoin's "last stand before the road to irrelevance," citing that BTC is down 77% from its last all-time high. How can this be true when everything that's been going around since the launch of BTC just goes against that claim?

So, to summarize, the ECB is essentially asserting that Bitcoin's end is drawing near. But it seems like the ECB's assertion is... unjustified if we consider the reasoning they've provided, as well as the present problems with Bitcoin.

AND, if you look at Bitcoin's history, it has also had some bumps in the road (2014 and 2018), but Bitcoin has had massive returns to offset these bearish years.

Do you think this bear cycle will be more severe than previous ones? What are your thoughts about these claims?

I'm just out here wondering on what basis they're making such assumptions.

Sources:

https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=BVIvsN&mc=9M&s=BtgXWnG&u=QcLhh&z=EVQsIuo&

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/blog/date/2022/html/ecb.blog221130~5301eecd19.en.html

Hi bro all these are speculations and also wrong news. And these are the media that are manipulating Cryptocurrency industry and that sucks a lot. These are some mastermind people that are controlling this industry. And somehow these people should have to exit and this could be the new era for Cryptocurrency. That's the reason I won't believe these scam accusitions.

ChillyMatthew

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Hi crypto fam.

So the ECB is making some strange claims that this is Bitcoin's "last stand before the road to irrelevance," citing that BTC is down 77% from its last all-time high. How can this be true when everything that's been going around since the launch of BTC just goes against that claim?

So, to summarize, the ECB is essentially asserting that Bitcoin's end is drawing near. But it seems like the ECB's assertion is... unjustified if we consider the reasoning they've provided, as well as the present problems with Bitcoin.

AND, if you look at Bitcoin's history, it has also had some bumps in the road (2014 and 2018), but Bitcoin has had massive returns to offset these bearish years.

Do you think this bear cycle will be more severe than previous ones? What are your thoughts about these claims?

I'm just out here wondering on what basis they're making such assumptions.

Sources:

https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=BVIvsN&mc=9M&s=BtgXWnG&u=QcLhh&z=EVQsIuo&

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/blog/date/2022/html/ecb.blog221130~5301eecd19.en.html

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