Topic: URGENT: drop MTGOX class action lawyers! contact WSJ about their lies URGENT! (Read 4864 times)

Perhaps Japan will surprise the world with their 'discovery' of another large amount of missing coins?*
_{*Provided by Mark shortly after he found out the alternative was certain jail.}

The Sunlot proposal looks like a desperate attempt to gain control of the investigation and prevent that [MK going to jail] from happening.

Bit_Happy sez:
Because it is part of their public relations strategy--to present this as a fait accompli--a "done deal".

There are always options visible, and perhaps even the biggest one is hiding in plain sight.

...
So far the Japanese government has been utterly silent except to meekly say that they are "very interested in bitcoin." Government and financial industry leaders need to focus on meeting and exceeding investors' expectations. That will help build confidence in Japan as a great place for direct foreign investment.

How come it "feels" like this ridiculous plan will be approved?
Why is there no other highly visible option?

How do you define trolling when the head man is a head case who bankrupts multiple companies and was sued for playing "head games" with underage boys?
Seriously, it is absurd:
Exactly, which merits (or lack thereof) would be good to discuss regarding the proposed Sunlot deal?

Is there a deliberate attempt here to troll the forums to prevent discussion of the merits (or lack thereof) of the proposed Sunlot deal?

Superduh sez:

> this is complete BULLSHIT.

The WSJ article sez:

Wikipedia sez:

Take us up to warp speed, Mr. Sulu!  

The creditors and the buyout group hope their deal will halt the liquidation proceedings launched by Mt. Gox earlier this month, which was given the go-ahead last week by the Japanese court, naming lawyer Nobuaki Kobayashi as the bankruptcy trustee to oversee that process.

The notional primary goal of the exercise is to rescue the civilian vessel Kobayashi Maru in a simulated battle with the Klingons. The disabled ship is located in the Klingon Neutral Zone, and any Starfleet ship entering the zone would be in violation of the Organian Peace Treaty. The approaching cadet crew must decide whether to attempt rescue of the Kobayashi Maru crew – endangering their own ship and lives – or leave the Kobayashi Maru to certain destruction. If the cadet chooses to attempt rescue, the simulation is designed to guarantee that the ship is destroyed with the loss of all crew members.

this is complete BULLSHIT.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304893404579530262159284736.

this is the second time WSJ is running fake, made up news about "creditor" support.

the SUNLOT plan DOES NOT have MAJORITY BACKER SUPPORT as the MAJORITY BACKERS were never consulted or AGREED TO ANYTHING.

the SUNLOT plan is awful in it's original and revised form. it should not be adopted by the creditors of MTGOX.

(deleted a bunch of stuff that made me sound like i was raging)

The above is what's in stored for all Mt Gox's customers - unable to delivered what was promised.

"I'm not involved in that any more"
FYI: OP didn't want the kiddie sex in this thread.
Sadly, it is on topic...

.....

If I were perverted, and my better half was fucking underage boys in my presence, I sure the hell would make sure that I'm fucking the underage boys' sisters in front of her as well. Why the hell should I miss out on sticking my dick in some 12 year old's tight pussy having a couple public hairs while she has her 11 year old brother on her belly helping him getting his dick hard so that she can put it into her pussy?

Surely, you don't think that a paedo- would simply say, "I'm not involved in that any more" (to quote Dorian Satoshi)?

I spent time on this yesterday, here we go again.
Wait till you get a load of the team...
How about we let Gox die and pay as much as possible to those who lost money?

Wait till you get a load of the team that's destined to take it over: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/more-proof-that-savegoxcom-is-a-sham-590970

   NO CHANCE ---

I'd like to believe that NO government agency in the U.S. or Japan would ever stoop so low, yet until now the only charge they have been able to make stick to MK is that he is more or less of a bumbling idiot.

They would not ....we did land on the moon and 9/11 was NOT an inside job.

its a snake pit of shit....and some demons will be slayed now...the bad guys better start watching their backs..

That's exactly it.

1. The Sunlot deal gives them 84% of any missing assets that turn up later.
2. They're in talks with Karpeles.
3. The original founders of Mt. Gox are involved.

So they probably do know where the missing assets are.

This deal needs to be put on hold until the bankruptcy trustee and the Tokyo police have had more time to find the money.  The trustee has only had a week of being in charge at this point.

That's exactly it.

1. The Sunlot deal gives them 84% of any missing assets that turn up later.
2. They're in talks with Karpeles.
3. The original founders of Mt. Gox are involved.

So they probably do know where the missing assets are.

This deal needs to be put on hold until the bankruptcy trustee and the Tokyo police have had more time to find the money.  The trustee has only had a week of being in charge at this point.

Actually, Sunlot's offer is not economically rational unless they have some kind of inside knowledge that the still missing 650,000 bitcoins are very likely to be soon recovered.

"After that, if the facts do not change, there is sufficient evidence to apply for an injunction ordering the US Government to release the seized property."

If gov seized the btc, where are they on the blockchain?

and exactly how would either Jap or American gov agency get access to any of their bitcoins without Mark handing them over to them (legall or illegally to be seen)

I'd like to believe that NO government agency in the U.S. or Japan would ever stoop so low, yet until now the only charge they have been able to make stick to MK is that he is more or less of a bumbling idiot. After 9/11, that was the same excuse used for why they couldn't stop it before it happened, "we were incompetent".

However, a far simpler explanation than theft is merely that this is a cover-up to avoid having to take the blame for having collapsed Mt. Gox. That's more than enough reason to pass this hot potato.

and exactly how would either Jap or American gov agency get access to any of their bitcoins without Mark handing them over to them (legall or illegally to be seen)

Quote from: Bit_Happy

> I think there is a chance it's a massive theft by a Gov agency, with Mark K as either an unlikely looking secret agent or patsy in grave danger.

I am not really in any position to say, but suppose the plan was to make everyone identify themselves before having their BTC returned?

That's the sort of thing that usually happens in an asset seizure--you have to explain where you got the assets, prove that they are yours--and not part of some illicit activities.

The organization(s) behind the seizure may have completely underestimated the amount of political fallout of investor dissatisfaction from a seizure of this magnitude, and are now engaged in a CYA operation. That's my SWAG on it, but I'm sure there are other equally likely scenarios or even more so.

Quote from: DrApricot
I am not in a position to know how much fact is behind this rumour of seizure and gagging, yet the case Tuck lays out certainly sounds quite convincing and worthy of further consideration.

Quote from: Bit_Happy
> Why would they seize so many BTC, compared to what was actually used for Silk Road?

Actually, there is entirely another possibility that at least partly exonerates MK. There has been a persistent rumour that the Mt. Gox losses were not merely the result of malfeasance on the part of the operators of the exchange, but rather came from a bitcoin seizure and gag order by one or more government agencies. These could either be Japanese or American agencies, or both--working in tandem. This is possibly being done as part of a prosecution against a very few of Mt. Gox's customers who may be guilty of some crimes.

I refer you to an excellent report by Tuck Fheman

Gov Most Certainly Seized Gox’s Coins
http://tuckfheman.com/post/79681539135/report-gov-most-certainly-seized-goxs-coins

The report is dated March 15, 2014, and in it Tuck states his belief that the U.S. government is behind the seizure. Were this true, it seems equally likely that the Japanese authorities are somehow involved too, if not completely behind it. He calls for an "injunction ordering the US Government to release the seized property" by May 16.

I am not in a position to know how much fact is behind this rumour of seizure and gagging, yet the case Tuck lays out certainly sounds quite convincing and worthy of further consideration.

Quote from: DrApricot on April 29, 2014, 07:15:09 PM

>> much better offers can be made

Actually, Sunlot's offer is not economically rational unless they have some kind of inside knowledge that the still missing 650,000 bitcoins are very likely to be soon recovered.

Quote from: btcusury on April 29, 2014, 07:15:09

That's exactly what I think. Although not necessarily inside knowledge -- it could be just an understanding of a high probability of finding the missing BTC. If you assume Karpeles is an incompetent idiot rather than a fraudster, you can take his IRC statement seriously that the BTC are "not technically lost, just temporarily unavailable".

Alright, any evidence of child abuse?

DEN [Digital Entertainment Network, the dot-com company co-founded at age 17 by Brock Pierce] fell apart in 1999, when senior co-founder Marc Collins-Rector, 40 years old at the time, settled a lawsuit that accused him of sexually molesting a 13-year-old male employee. Other young men then filed similar suits against Collins-Rector, naming Pierce and 25-year-old DEN co-founder Chad Shackley as peripheral defendants. None of the three DEN founders could be located, and default judgments totaling $4.5 million were handed down.

Pierce says, he had no knowledge of the suits at the time, and when he finally showed up to contest them two years later, the judgments against him were dismissed.

On the drive back up to his house in the Laurel Canyon hills, he kept talking, telling me about his current list of projects, entrepreneurial and otherwise. He had just sold a casino in the Phillippines. There was an oil deal in Kazakhstan. He was doing philanthropic work with the Clinton Global Initiative. He was working with the family of the president of El Salvador to make some worthy documentary or another. His list was delivered with an almost manic urgency. If I were to presume to have the slightest idea what really goes on inside Brock Pierce's head, I might suggest he was trying to establish by sheer force of talk the irrelevance of anything in his past to all the things he's doing today.

Alright, any evidence of child abuse?

Alright, any evidence of child abuse?

I'm honestly not sure how to define "fraud" when you are living in an expensive mansion (with two older partners) and inviting young boys to parties who show up because they are expecting to be movie stars.
The next morning they wake up with a hangover and an unusual pain in their ass.

Is that technically fraud?

I'm honestly not sure how to define "fraud" when you are living in an expensive mansion (with two older partners) and inviting young boys to parties who show up because they are expecting to be movie stars.
The next morning they wake up with a hangover and an unusual pain in their ass.

Is that technically fraud?

Any evidence of fraud? Or just an entrepreneur trying to ride the dot-com bubble?

8, & 9) Brock Pierce was part of a dot-com "company" that burned through $60 Million before going bankrupt. The parties were so wild that boys as young as 13 sued over charges of child rape.

1) they are buying mtgox for 1btc (token)

Actually, Sunlot's offer is not economically rational unless they have some kind of inside knowledge that the still missing 650,000 bitcoins are very likely to be soon recovered.

8, & 9) Brock Pierce was part of a dot-com "company" that burned through $60 Million before going bankrupt. The parties were so wild that boys as young as 13 sued over charges of child rape.

1) they are buying mtgox for 1btc (token)
2) they lock up btc for a year
3) from what i understand they will USE CREDITOR FUNDS to investigate and pursue possible stolen coins.
4) they have no experience with running any exchange and would be not much better than Mark himself
5) 16.5% for being compensated for any and all unrecoverable assets of MtGox? (their expertise is worth 80%+ of equity!?!? for what)
6) no more debt to creditors in return for 16.5%!?!?
7) offer NO money or investment of their own into this venture

do i go on?

is it better than liquidation? hard to tell. but, much better offers can be made.

1) they are buying mtgox for 1btc (token)
2) they lock up btc for a year
3) from what i understand they will USE CREDITOR FUNDS to investigate and pursue possible stolen coins.
4) they have no experience with running any exchange and would be not much better than Mark himself
5) 16.5% for being compensated for any and all unrecoverable assets of MtGox? (their expertise is worth 80%+ of equity!?!? for what)
6) no more debt to creditors in return for 16.5%!?!?
7) offer NO money or investment of their own into this venture

do i go on?

is it better than liquidation? hard to tell. but, much better offers can be made.

much better offers can be made

Please, please explain why.

AFAIK, no one has been able to explain why Sunlot's plan is awful. All I see is statements like OP's above, never explaining WHY liquidation is preferrable.

the SUNLOT plan is awful in it's original and revised form. it should not be adopted by the creditors of MTGOX.

Edelson email is [email protected]

Mt. Gox Creditors, Investors Agree to Try to Revive Bitcoin Exchange
Deal Would Give Creditors a 16.5% Stake in the Future Company
By MICHAEL J. CASEY CONNECT
Updated April 29, 2014 12:10 a.m. ET
Lawyers for creditors involved in two proposed class-action lawsuits against Mt. Gox have reached an agreement to support a group of U.S. investors' bid to revive the bankrupt bitcoin exchange, an agreement that would give the creditors a 16.5% stake in the prospective future company.

The creditors' lawyers filed details of the settlement, which also involved Mt. Gox's former owner and its former chief marketing officer, with a District Court in Chicago on Monday.

At a separate hearing before the judge Thursday, they are expected to present their case for that agreement, which in addition to the equity stake includes prorated disbursements out of Tokyo-based Mt. Gox's holdings of 200,000 bitcoins and traditional currency. The terms would apply to all creditors worldwide, though it was signed on behalf of U.S. and Canadian members of the proposed class actions. If the U.S. court approves the plan, the investor group, Sunlot Holdings, would then seek approval of the Japanese court overseeing the bankruptcy.

The creditors and the buyout group hope their deal will halt the liquidation proceedings launched by Mt. Gox earlier this month, which was given the go-ahead last week by the Japanese court, naming lawyer Nobuaki Kobayashi as the bankruptcy trustee to oversee that process.

The Sunlot consortium has repeatedly argued that liquidation would result in a much smaller recovery value for creditors than would its plan to revive the exchange and share trading profits with those former exchange customers. John Betts, Sunlot chief executive, has said the bid is aimed not only at improving the outcome for those creditors but also in sending a message that the "bitcoin community looks after its own."

According a news release from Sunlot, the consortium along with Jed McCaleb, who founded Mt. Gox, and former Mt. Gox chief marketing officer, Gonzague Gay-Bouchery, agreed under the deal to help the plaintiff creditors in their continued case against Mt. Gox's majority owner, Mark Karpelès, and his holding company, Tibanne Co. Ltd.

Mr. McCaleb sold a majority stake in Mt. Gox to Mr. Karpelès in 2011 but retained a 12% stake.

In an email, Mr. Karpelès said, "we provide our support to the sponsor chosen by the [Japanese] court and supervisor, whichever ends up being chosen. The court and the supervisor will be choosing the sponsor that will be most beneficial to the creditors."

Edelson Managing Partner Jay Edelson, the lawyer who represented the U.S. creditors covered by the proposed class action said, "Liquidation would have been a disaster for the U.S. class. It would have taken significant time, the assets would have been depleted, and the U.S. consumers would have gotten pennies on the dollar."

Negotiations between the creditors and the parties to the agreement were conducted under the oversight of Retired District Judge Wayne Andersen, of JAMS, who served as an independent mediator.

In addition to the lawyers for the U.S. and Canadian class-action creditors who directly approved the settlement, lawyers representing a separate international group were also engaged in the negotiations. The proposed class involved in the negotiations account for about 50,000 of the "digital wallets" from which coins are missing, out of a total 127,000, according to the Sunlot news release.

Mt. Gox, which once accounted for 80% of all bitcoin trading, filed for bankruptcy protection Feb. 28 and said hacking attacks and software glitches had caused it to lose 850,000 bitcoins, worth about $500 million at the time, including 750,000 belonging to customers. Since then, it announced that it had recovered 200,000 of those but the remaining 550,000 coins, now worth about $240 million, continue to be a controversial issue. Some believe that with a full audit of Mt. Gox's books and an investigation of the bitcoin network's universal ledger of transactions, it should be possible to trace those missing bitcoins.

The Sunlot consortium, which includes bitcoin entrepreneur Brock Pierce as well as venture capital investors Matthew Roszak and William Quigley, first entered into negotiations with Mr. Karpelès in February at a time when the embattled Mt. Gox had frozen customer accounts. The subsequent bankruptcy declaration stymied those talks but the group continued to lobby Mr. Karpelès, who eventually agreed to their buyout offer and sent a letter to the court supporting their proposal.

The move to liquidate signaled a charge of course for Mr. Karpelés and forced the group to launch a last-ditch campaign to keep their bid alive. This included setting up a website, savegox.com, where thousands of burned Mt. Gox customers were invited to voice their preference for the rehabilitation plan.

Write to Michael J. Casey at [email protected]