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Topic: US Government Mistakes Digital Currency for Pacific Island! - page 2. (Read 2972 times)

full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100


The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) today issued two administrative rulings regarding digital currency. And the government has apparently decided to go with the nuclear option.

The first ruling published today relates to the application of FinCEN regulations to a virtual currency trading platform, while the second ruling discusses the application of FinCEN regulations to a virtual currency payment system.

In ruling FIN-2014-R011, FinCEN states that any and all cryptocurrency exchanges must become licensed as a money transmitter including crypto-only exchanges:

"As explained in the Guidance, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency."

In ruling FIN-2014-R012, the agency confirms that any and all payment processors are obliged to register as money transmitters, significantly increasing the cost of entry in becoming a digital payments provider.

"As described above, the Company is an exchanger under the Guidance because it engages as a business in accepting and converting the customer’s real currency into virtual currency for transmission to the merchant. The fact that the Company uses its cache of Bitcoin to pay the merchant is not relevant to whether it fits within the definition of money transmitter."

Once labeled a money transmitter, a business wishing to continue operating must pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to become licensed in each of the 50 states. And that’s only the beginning of the regulatory costs and legal hoop jumping.

In addition, companies are required to register with FinCEN, conduct a comprehensive risk assessment of its exposure to money laundering, implement an Anti-Money Laundering Program based on such risk assessment, and comply with various record keeping, reporting and transaction monitoring obligations, in addition to meeting several other requirements.

It is interesting to note that the government classifies Bitcoin as a digital “property” for taxation purposes, but as a digital “money” for regulatory and licensing purposes.

Full Story: http://altcoinpress.com/2014/10/fincen-ruling-us-government-ramps-up-war-on-cryptocurrency/

Bolded red: there is already solution www.multigateway.org
Still Beta version.

Um... multi gateway is an exchange service that charges fees, and gateway currencies are held on the platform?? The platform owners or developers could be subject?

  What defines ownership of a platform?

   What defines a crypto exchange business?

   Multi gateway is definitely a crypto exchange platform.

  But the law is vague. In decentralized nature, then only nodes in the USA using the platform are at risk? Of course they are pushing for full disclosure starting at the root..

   Counterparty is getting the beats.. nxt ae next?  I've read the new legislation, but frankly it is very vague.. which means leaves open to new legislation and vague rulings.

   Can extradition be possible if in order with anti terror laws? After all, laundering is just the first cause to order, and vague definitions will link to global order terror laws soon enough...

  Make no mistake about it. . This thread and this law.. is only a small part of what to come.

  The question on anonymity being real was a poke at the order the global unseen government has on us all..

  Remember .  Sha256. .  Well who created it?  Interesting laws are now being passed to protect the us governments perhaps.. crown jewel? Bitcoin?

   Also remember.  Any of us movers and shakers, and in particular every single anon coin dev that isn't already an nsa honeypot.. is on a list. .

  And don't think you're personal information can't be linked to mobile gps, registration documents, that your isp, mobile provider, debit cards, visa cards, (prepaid or otherwise) can't be tracked and will not be logged..

  The anon marketing scam, well is scrutiny.. and ultimately forced disclosure..
  
  Satoshi designed bitcoin as 100% anon.  Just use a different address.  Every transaction.  Does anyone really think that nsa software can't break through the shitty poorly designed 'anon' currency transactions.. When they the ones that wrote the initial script? People are too lazy to start a new addy every transaction, and sure as hell wouldn't be marketable..

   Internet aliases will likely be passed as legal representatives of all the 'anon" coins.   I just hope anon practices supercede anon software. . Cuz it'll be like Domino's. .and a blank blockchain  = jail time. Why? Financial disclosure... Anon coins.. we'll they unfortunately don't have records.
  
  Extradition? Well depends on how isis pads the anti terror law legislation being passed and the joining of coalition in areas of vague law in the new global order..

   Many powerful incidents as of late..  but don't think you can hide behind a vpn. . Anon... was created before you were all born.  No matter how many layers in an onion.. can still be stripped to the core.. and thrown on the good old American bbq.

   Especially when that onion was grown in the good old us of a..
  
   What is the fight? Bitcoin may be the enemy of freedom..  The hard fork impending..  sidechains impending.. sunshine and lollipops for alts? Sarcastic understood. How can one truly fight?

    Human rights are being stripped under our noses.. and every crypto that claims to be a business, or corporation or says hi! I'm the ceo of fuck the government is asking for a lashing not only  personally but all the investors..

  Anyone mind to stop calling crypto currencies a business? Or should I go back to my job at 711 and give up..

I'd like to point out, that you give way way too much credit to the NSA. Yes they have a vast amount of resources and very trained/skilled people, but Private companies have A Lot more very skilled people. The geniuses of this world dont work for the government, when they can make much more money working privately.

Bitcoin has what we call, psuedo anonymity, and it is not or even remotely close to "100% anon". Yes you're correct in that using new addresses for every transaction would hide your tracks(not that effectively though), but seriously, what average person is going to do that? Remember, you're not marketing crypto to the techies, you're marketing it to the average population. Therefore, anon coins fit the bill perfectly, such as Monero. Cryptonote allows for both regular sending(as with bitcoin), and anonymous sending with different mixing levels.
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 505


The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) today issued two administrative rulings regarding digital currency. And the government has apparently decided to go with the nuclear option.

The first ruling published today relates to the application of FinCEN regulations to a virtual currency trading platform, while the second ruling discusses the application of FinCEN regulations to a virtual currency payment system.

In ruling FIN-2014-R011, FinCEN states that any and all cryptocurrency exchanges must become licensed as a money transmitter including crypto-only exchanges:

"As explained in the Guidance, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency."

In ruling FIN-2014-R012, the agency confirms that any and all payment processors are obliged to register as money transmitters, significantly increasing the cost of entry in becoming a digital payments provider.

"As described above, the Company is an exchanger under the Guidance because it engages as a business in accepting and converting the customer’s real currency into virtual currency for transmission to the merchant. The fact that the Company uses its cache of Bitcoin to pay the merchant is not relevant to whether it fits within the definition of money transmitter."

Once labeled a money transmitter, a business wishing to continue operating must pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to become licensed in each of the 50 states. And that’s only the beginning of the regulatory costs and legal hoop jumping.

In addition, companies are required to register with FinCEN, conduct a comprehensive risk assessment of its exposure to money laundering, implement an Anti-Money Laundering Program based on such risk assessment, and comply with various record keeping, reporting and transaction monitoring obligations, in addition to meeting several other requirements.

It is interesting to note that the government classifies Bitcoin as a digital “property” for taxation purposes, but as a digital “money” for regulatory and licensing purposes.

Full Story: http://altcoinpress.com/2014/10/fincen-ruling-us-government-ramps-up-war-on-cryptocurrency/

Bolded red: there is already solution www.multigateway.org
Still Beta version.

Um... multi gateway is an exchange service that charges fees, and gateway currencies are held on the platform?? The platform owners or developers could be subject?

  What defines ownership of a platform?

   What defines a crypto exchange business?

   Multi gateway is definitely a crypto exchange platform.

  But the law is vague. In decentralized nature, then only nodes in the USA using the platform are at risk? Of course they are pushing for full disclosure starting at the root..

   Counterparty is getting the beats.. nxt ae next?  I've read the new legislation, but frankly it is very vague.. which means leaves open to new legislation and vague rulings.

   Can extradition be possible if in order with anti terror laws? After all, laundering is just the first cause to order, and vague definitions will link to global order terror laws soon enough...

  Make no mistake about it. . This thread and this law.. is only a small part of what to come.

  The question on anonymity being real was a poke at the order the global unseen government has on us all..

  Remember .  Sha256. .  Well who created it?  Interesting laws are now being passed to protect the us governments perhaps.. crown jewel? Bitcoin?

   Also remember.  Any of us movers and shakers, and in particular every single anon coin dev that isn't already an nsa honeypot.. is on a list. .

  And don't think you're personal information can't be linked to mobile gps, registration documents, that your isp, mobile provider, debit cards, visa cards, (prepaid or otherwise) can't be tracked and will not be logged..

  The anon marketing scam, well is scrutiny.. and ultimately forced disclosure..
   
  Satoshi designed bitcoin as 100% anon.  Just use a different address.  Every transaction.  Does anyone really think that nsa software can't break through the shitty poorly designed 'anon' currency transactions.. When they the ones that wrote the initial script? People are too lazy to start a new addy every transaction, and sure as hell wouldn't be marketable..

   Internet aliases will likely be passed as legal representatives of all the 'anon" coins.   I just hope anon practices supercede anon software. . Cuz it'll be like Domino's. .and a blank blockchain  = jail time. Why? Financial disclosure... Anon coins.. we'll they unfortunately don't have records.
   
  Extradition? Well depends on how isis pads the anti terror law legislation being passed and the joining of coalition in areas of vague law in the new global order..

   Many powerful incidents as of late..  but don't think you can hide behind a vpn. . Anon... was created before you were all born.  No matter how many layers in an onion.. can still be stripped to the core.. and thrown on the good old American bbq.

   Especially when that onion was grown in the good old us of a..
 
   What is the fight? Bitcoin may be the enemy of freedom..  The hard fork impending..  sidechains impending.. sunshine and lollipops for alts? Sarcastic understood. How can one truly fight?

    Human rights are being stripped under our noses.. and every crypto that claims to be a business, or corporation or says hi! I'm the ceo of fuck the government is asking for a lashing not only  personally but all the investors..

  Anyone mind to stop calling crypto currencies a business? Or should I go back to my job at 711 and give up..
newbie
Activity: 49
Merit: 0
What happens to exchanges outside the US who do not register with FINCEN?
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1005


The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) today issued two administrative rulings regarding digital currency. And the government has apparently decided to go with the nuclear option.

The first ruling published today relates to the application of FinCEN regulations to a virtual currency trading platform, while the second ruling discusses the application of FinCEN regulations to a virtual currency payment system.

In ruling FIN-2014-R011, FinCEN states that any and all cryptocurrency exchanges must become licensed as a money transmitter including crypto-only exchanges:

"As explained in the Guidance, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency."

In ruling FIN-2014-R012, the agency confirms that any and all payment processors are obliged to register as money transmitters, significantly increasing the cost of entry in becoming a digital payments provider.

"As described above, the Company is an exchanger under the Guidance because it engages as a business in accepting and converting the customer’s real currency into virtual currency for transmission to the merchant. The fact that the Company uses its cache of Bitcoin to pay the merchant is not relevant to whether it fits within the definition of money transmitter."

Once labeled a money transmitter, a business wishing to continue operating must pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to become licensed in each of the 50 states. And that’s only the beginning of the regulatory costs and legal hoop jumping.

In addition, companies are required to register with FinCEN, conduct a comprehensive risk assessment of its exposure to money laundering, implement an Anti-Money Laundering Program based on such risk assessment, and comply with various record keeping, reporting and transaction monitoring obligations, in addition to meeting several other requirements.

It is interesting to note that the government classifies Bitcoin as a digital “property” for taxation purposes, but as a digital “money” for regulatory and licensing purposes.

Full Story: http://altcoinpress.com/2014/10/fincen-ruling-us-government-ramps-up-war-on-cryptocurrency/

Bolded red: there is already solution www.multigateway.org
Still Beta version.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
Is this forum from usa?  Might want to start deleting posts if so.. lol

There's no point, all posts here get archived automatically at https://bitcointa.lk/
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1002
Chipcoin Developer
This is the funniest thing I have read lately... Cheesy


hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 505
Is this forum from usa?  Might want to start deleting posts if so.. lol
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 505
Would this apply to pools?

Yes you would need to have decentralize mining as  well but we already have that.

  So pos coins the way to go..

 Remember too they're pushing the legality of aliases to real names and ips etc.. santy clause be making his list and checking it twice.

   Wonder if anon is actually real.  Guess this is a good time to check the effectiveness of the honey pot tor.

  And if a coin is considered a business they will demand all transaction records.  If those can't be supplied. Might be a violation too... failure to comply to financial ref is likely bad.

 Pos might be only safe coin? All pools accepting payment in bitcoin and charging fees would he subject In usa for now.
   
  Is.. Pos? The answer? How will developers be responsible? Could github be ordered to supply dev info?

  Where does this end?
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 505
Would this apply to pools?
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 505
Great great, "Blue Skies" and "May contain forward looking statements", I can't wait to read my first altcoin prospectus and then promptly jump out a high rise window.

 Meant does it apply to ipos and dentralized assets based on corporate public shares.. I kept sayin.. quit calling yourself a business I said.. quit backing your coin with government labelled assets I said. Stop the corporate crycryptos i said.. man.. This gonna drill on through ain't it..

   Wonder if transaction fees cause a decentralized exchange to be considered a business... or a coin.. does this apply to mining? Any American cloud hashers out there?
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1085
Money often costs too much.
Where can we find the definition.  Of digital or crypto currency trading platform?

Maybe we can create one based upon

Quote
Once labeled a money transmitter, a business wishing to continue operating must pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to become licensed in each of the 50 states. And that’s only the beginning of the regulatory costs and legal hoop jumping.

Like "a crypto currency trading platform is something beeing located outside of the 50 states". Who would qualify with this definition? BTC-E, BTC China, BTER, Yunbi, even Kraken so I think this will need further pondering. But basically the toplist downwards allready falls into this definition pretty much.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
You got it buddie.  Blue skies and ocean breezes on its way to altcoinland.

Just hope poloniex doesn't croak too soon
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 505
Ohhh. ...  This is about ipos and corporate cryptos..  everyone saying they are running a business..  pretending their corporations are backing their crypto currency...  then issuing public shares based on their corporate holdings!

   Which ia really is a lie.. there is nothing actually legally bound to a token or a coin from a corporation. . No ipo account holder would be listed as creditors in the event of insolvency. .

   So is then this regulation going to destroy ipos, ShitCoin exchanges, and maybe take a bite out of shit coins and scammers?

   Sure are  a lot of ipos held on exchanges that turn out to be scams lately...

  Am I reading this wrong.. or will this force decentralization further?

   Would corporate crypto die? Maybe that would be amazing. .
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1011
FUD Philanthropist™
Anyone care to speculate on how this impacts poloniex or bittrex (both based in USA but I'm assuming not registered as money transmitters)?

in case people are curious i posted my long chat box quote because of what this guy said..

and yeah Cryptsy hmm interesting LOL

full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Anyone care to speculate on how this impacts poloniex or bittrex (both based in USA but I'm assuming not registered as money transmitters)?

Better to close Cryptsy and CryptoStocks, too?

 Cryptsy already paid the massive fee.  Think they're good.  

  And seems the issue is.. exchange fees? As long as no fees are charged, then these rules don't apply?

Oh I'd forgotten that Cryptsy became a licensed money transmitter(Hence there USD Markets). I guess Cryptsy is the (only?) american exchange to use now.
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 505
Anyone care to speculate on how this impacts poloniex or bittrex (both based in USA but I'm assuming not registered as money transmitters)?

Better to close Cryptsy and CryptoStocks, too?

 Cryptsy already paid the massive fee.  Think they're good. 

  And seems the issue is.. exchange fees? As long as no fees are charged, then these rules don't apply?
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1011
FUD Philanthropist™
I seen this at coindesk today and was talking about it on Poloniex's chat.. others guys were saying this would kill our traditional exchanges
a few guys went on to say P2P decentralized exchanges would solve that.. in other words they can't regulate it !
so..
Then i responded by saying..

Quote
Spoetnik: amoebatron, p2p exchanges means this place is long gone and dead then right ?
amoebatron: Spoetnik, Well I didn't mean it quite like that.
Spoetnik: maqa71, they did and sold them via the Marshals and tehy seize GOX money held on us soil
freedomsr40: guys...bitcoin is NOT mainstream enough YET to have its own regulation written
maqa71: Spoetnik, well thats because they got theire hands on the server with all private keys yeah
Spoetnik: amoebatron, ya but that is what will happen i think eh.. no offense Polo Wink
Spoetnik: maqa71, exactly and the Gox bank accounts etc etc
LordzS: morning
OldManKidd: Spoetnik, lets not start with wild speculations now
Spoetnik: OldManKidd, uhh what is a wild speculation buddy ?
OldManKidd: LordzS, morning
Spoetnik: and you notice everyoen esle talking about hte sam ething word fo rword HuhHuhHuh?
freedomsr40: OldManKidd, throw out the "trading tip" or "pro tip" or whatever its called..about FUD and do your own research
LordzS: Hey OldManKidd, my pool hitits first LTC block like 15 minutes ago a
OldManKidd: Spoetnik, implying we are going to be seized is wild speculation
LordzS: OldManKidd, and were hitting DRK regulary about 2 blocks an hour
Spoetnik: ohhhh coem on where the heeeeeeeeeel did i say that HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh
Spoetnik: you know this is logged right ?

LordzS: OldManKidd, Spoetnik, has been banned from all forums he needs somewhere to troll lol
OldManKidd: Spoetnik, just reading into the comments and the no offense polo ... you prompted a response and got one
OldManKidd: no offense

Spoetnik: excuse me ?
maqa71: its oke guy's, we're all going to jail Smiley
OldManKidd: maqa71, lol
Spoetnik: i said word for word whatteh OTHER gusy said .
freedomsr40: OldManKidd, about time to drop the ban hamma
presstab: Spoetnik, hey how are you
amoebatron: Spoetnik, lol you shouldn't be so senstive dude.
Spoetnik: your trying to start with me to boot me simpale sas that and its funny you insult all our intelligence doing it so waekly i might add .
Spoetnik: amoebatron, di YOU get a warning ?
Spoetnik: it was ONLY me

amoebatron: Spoetnik, I just mentioned the benefits of p2p exchanges - i didn't say the sky was gonna fall.
OldManKidd: Spoetnik, sorry? if i wanted to just boot you i would.. i am asking you not to imply the we are doing something wrong.
leatherfce: we shoot at my house
freedomsr40: time to stop talking about regs and stuff and talk about HYP
presstab: Spoetnik, everything ok man?
amoebatron has awarded Spoetnik 50 marks (chill bro)
Spoetnik: OldManKidd, then go warn the other guys why me ?
OldManKidd: presstab, always Smiley
maqa71: Spoetnik, chill out mate
Spoetnik: 5 guys siad teh same thing and you dive on me hard
Spoetnik: maqa71, you seen it right ?
freedomsr40: presstab, hows it going man?
Spoetnik: wow

presstab: freedomsr40, I am great! Thanks Smiley
OldManKidd: Spoetnik, its not a debate... you implied polo was doing something wrong by saying ... sorry polo... so end of issue.. move along please
Spoetnik: buddy i lost ALL respect for you today
LordzS: maqa71, im already in jail lol 3rd marriage , you would think i would learn
maqa71: Spoetnik, dont take it too personal, everyone could had that warning Smiley
Spoetnik: maqa71, everyoen SHOULD have

presstab: freedomsr40, maybe you will get HyperLoan v2
freedomsr40: Spoetnik, i got a warning the other day..i dropped it and moved on
Spoetnik: singlin me out is bs
maqa71: LordzS, dude u managed to escape twice lol, I am busted for life with the first
presstab: Spoetnik, hey does that shakeluza still have a bct profile i could not find it
leatherfce: I don't know for sure but I doubt pissing off Oldman is a good idea
LordzS: ok to make him happy WARN ME!!
amoebatron: lol
Spoetnik: how am i suppose to move ionb whaen thsi singling me out stuff is a common problem ?
OldManKidd: Spoetnik, i dont think you had any respect for any mod here as it is.. or many of the traders. but that is my opinion

Spoetnik: i have to tip toe on ice or else..
leatherfce: i got respect for you
presstab: OldManKidd, you so mean!!!!!! Tongue
Spoetnik: OldManKidd, plenty of them say Geez or Ilovu
OldManKidd: presstab, lol
freedomsr40: presstab, thatd be great man !!! my PC is staking 24/7 and im ready! i just convinced my gf to get into HYP
LordzS: I respect BUNDERBERG RUM ONLY!!
Spoetnik: i haev had NO problem with other mods man except Shrek
presstab: OldManKidd, i think your posts are rude because your blue name offends me!!
OldManKidd: presstab, Sad
Spoetnik: presstab, ask me on BCt not here and no prob ok
LordzS: hey hey dont be messing with my aussie bro SHREK!!
presstab: freedomsr40, lol nice!! have you had some stakes come in yet
presstab: Spoetnik, i dont post on that thread anymore Cry Thanks for the offer though man
freedomsr40: presstab, Yup...first stake came in in under 10 days
Spoetnik: presstab, i meant just pmme so i dont; get banne dhere for drama or soemthing
Spoetnik: i said sorry and got a warning LOL
presstab: Spoetnik, oh last time I pmd you you said I was spamming you so i dont want to get banned lol
OldManKidd: Spoetnik, just dont imply we are doing something wrong .. if you cant leave it go i dont know what else to tell you buddy
Spoetnik: ya ya..


be careful guys Wink
i guess "wild speculations" and saying "sorry" is ban worthy at Poloniex  Roll Eyes

edit:
is it not obvious i meant EVERY traditional exchange ?
legendary
Activity: 1267
Merit: 1000
Anyone care to speculate on how this impacts poloniex or bittrex (both based in USA but I'm assuming not registered as money transmitters)?

Better to close Cryptsy and CryptoStocks, too?
legendary
Activity: 3136
Merit: 1116
Anyone care to speculate on how this impacts poloniex or bittrex (both based in USA but I'm assuming not registered as money transmitters)?
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
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