U.S. Judge determines bitcoin is a currency - page 4.

threeip

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Quote from: JerimiahJohnson on August 07, 2013, 11:21:58 AM

Quote

Law360, Los Angeles (August 06, 2013, 9:03 PM ET) -- Internet-traded bitcoins are a form of currency subject to federal securities laws, a Texas federal judge ruled Tuesday, refusing to dismiss the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission's claims accusing the founder of Bitcoin Savings & Trust of running a Ponzi scheme.

Bitcoin is a form of currency because it can be used to purchase goods or services and exchanged for more traditional forms of money, U.S. Magistrate Judge Amos L. Mazzant wrote in a decision Tuesday.

Looks like pirateat40's case is being tried in Texas.

If his best defense is that "Bitcoin is not real money" he needs to hire a new lawyer

He is representing himself

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: richard_dein on August 07, 2013, 12:11:07 PM

I think, if I set up contracts to give 1 apple per day in exchange for a one-time payment of 10 apples, then when I run away it should still be illegal. It would be an other question whether it is a Ponzi scheme, rather than merely a breach of contract.

Right, so would such an apple Ponzi fall under the jurisdiction of the SEC?

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: Gabi on August 07, 2013, 12:01:38 PM

Well, i already know that stealing gold is punished, no need for that.

Sure, but can you be prosecuted by the SEC for running a Ponzi scheme that offers "securities" based in gold?

If so, then you can get a Federal judge to set a precedent (if it hasn't already been set) that gold is a "currency".

Quote from: Gabi on August 07, 2013, 12:01:38 PM

I am not saying that bitcoins can be stolen because they are not currencies! Of course if pirate ran that bitcoin ponzi he must be punished

The question isn't whether they can be stolen (well, actually I suppose that is a question as well), but rather does a Ponzi that is based in bitcoin fall under the jurisdiction of the SEC, or does some other executive branch division have to prosecute the case?

richard_dein

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I think, if I set up contracts to give 1 apple per day in exchange for a one-time payment of 10 apples, then when I run away it should still be illegal. It would be an other question whether it is a Ponzi scheme, rather than merely a breach of contract.

Gabi

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If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

Well, i already know that stealing gold is punished, no need for that.

I am not saying that bitcoins can be stolen because they are not currencies! Of course if pirate ran that bitcoin ponzi he must be punished

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: Gabi on August 07, 2013, 11:55:01 AM

Now my question is: is gold considered "currency" for USA?

Create a gold based Ponzi scheme and I guess we'll find out.
Grin

Gabi

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If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

Now my question is: is gold considered "currency" for USA?

Razick

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Quote from: Gabi on August 07, 2013, 11:09:25 AM

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Bitcoin is a form of currency because it can be used to purchase goods or services and exchanged for more traditional forms of money

Bullshit, the same apply to gold but gold IS NOT money

http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2011/07/13/bernanke-fights-ron-paul-in-congress-golds-not-money/

And since bitcoin is, in my opinion, digital gold, i say that it is not money.

If Bernanke says gold is not money, you just take that as gospel? This is the same guy who is printing paper to "benefit" the economy.

JerimiahJohnson

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Quote

Law360, Los Angeles (August 06, 2013, 9:03 PM ET) -- Internet-traded bitcoins are a form of currency subject to federal securities laws, a Texas federal judge ruled Tuesday, refusing to dismiss the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission's claims accusing the founder of Bitcoin Savings & Trust of running a Ponzi scheme.

Bitcoin is a form of currency because it can be used to purchase goods or services and exchanged for more traditional forms of money, U.S. Magistrate Judge Amos L. Mazzant wrote in a decision Tuesday.

Looks like pirateat40's case is being tried in Texas.

If his best defense is that "Bitcoin is not real money" he needs to hire a new lawyer

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: Gabi on August 07, 2013, 11:09:25 AM

Quote

Bitcoin is a form of currency because it can be used to purchase goods or services and exchanged for more traditional forms of money

Bullshit, the same apply to gold but gold IS NOT money

http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2011/07/13/bernanke-fights-ron-paul-in-congress-golds-not-money/

And since bitcoin is, in my opinion, digital gold, i say that it is not money.

You can say what you want, but apparently the U.S. court has decided to define bitcoin with the label of "currency" (which probably has more to do with the ineptitude of Mr. Shaver's legal team than with the judge's deep understanding of the technical issues behind defining bitcoin).

The fact that Mr. Bernanke chooses to state that gold is not "money" has very little to do with whether the U.S. courts would consider gold to be a "currency".

Can you find me a court case where gold was determined not to meet the requirements of being a currency?

As much as I'd like to see Mr. Shavers spend time in jail for his crimes, I really want him to have the best legal team possible. This case is likely to set a lot of precedents for bitcoin, and if his legal team isn't top notch, many of those precedents are likely to be detrimental to bitcoin in the long term.

elor70

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good to know...

Gabi

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If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

Quote

Bitcoin is a form of currency because it can be used to purchase goods or services and exchanged for more traditional forms of money

Bullshit, the same apply to gold but gold IS NOT money

http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2011/07/13/bernanke-fights-ron-paul-in-congress-golds-not-money/

And since bitcoin is, in my opinion, digital gold, i say that it is not money.

DannyHamilton

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http://www.law360.com/articles/462977

Quote

Internet-traded bitcoins are a form of currency . . . a Texas federal judge ruled Tuesday

Quote

Bitcoin is a form of currency because it can be used to purchase goods or services and exchanged for more traditional forms of money, U.S. Magistrate Judge Amos L. Mazzant wrote in a decision Tuesday

It's nice to see the U.S. courts acknowledge reality once in a while.

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