US Soldier in exchange for 5 Al-Qaeda members

Wilikon

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Quote from: Ron~Popeil on June 07, 2014, 02:20:15 AM

Quote from: taipo on June 07, 2014, 01:41:57 AM

Quote from: Ron~Popeil on June 05, 2014, 11:44:21 PM

Obama is by far the worst president in this nation's history.

He certainly has turned out to be a disappointment, but worst president in the nations history? Na thats a split tie between Nixon and Bush Jr with Bush tipping the scales due to having the lowest IQ of any president in the known world.

I am not a fan of the younger Bush, but the IQ thing is a myth. The difference between Obama and Nixon is that Watergate didn't kill anyone.

...Unlike Benghazi...

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Quote from: Slab Squathrust on June 05, 2014, 06:07:12 PM

Quote from: Ron~Popeil on June 05, 2014, 05:57:39 PM

Quote from: RiverBoatBTC on June 05, 2014, 04:59:17 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 05, 2014, 12:01:28 AM

Just one soldier released in exchange for 5 hardcore terrorists. These terrorists in turn will kill many more American soldiers. Bergdahl wasn't even a high ranking officer to begin with.

That is a really jackass thing to say, what good is a desk jokey? How many high ranking officers do you see pulling the trigger? NOT A DAMN ONE OF THEM. Save all the pencil pushing officers and throw the people who actually fight to the wayside....

While I do not agree how this was handled that comment was beyond stupid...

The real reason obama did this was to say "I did everything I could to leave no US troops behind". Do not forget we are might be 100% out of afgan by the end of the year, and to leave a captured soldier would be just another smudge on the war.

I am not a conspiracy person but the move seems so stupid that it makes me wonder if there is something else going on.

Well I am not sure you are in the US or not, but our Veterans health care service recently had a big scandal where patients may have died waiting for care. Whether this is Obama's fault or not is debatable. The VA has had issues for years long before Obama assumed the office. However, Obama did implement policy changes that may have exacerbated the situation. Some suspect this swap may have been timed to help bury that news. If true, it certainly seems to have worked.

!!! BINGO!!!

The spin doctors thought hard thinking this move would have been a win win situation: change the subject about the VA scandal (Obama campaigned on the VA situation and Congress, based on his administration, pushed for multiple billion more for its budget). The VA was the liberals answer to why obamacare was going to be a success: Government in charge of healthcare with amazing great result, as long as you pour more and more money. The other win situation was to close gitmo, another obama campaign promise no matter what.

Sadly for them the VA scandal is still growing and now the public sees what they did with that soldier and talibans.

SirChiko

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How come they didn't shoot that copter down?

Swordsoffreedom

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 08, 2014, 03:36:55 AM

Quote from: Benjig on June 07, 2014, 03:02:11 PM

This does not mean that if the opportunity arises, we don't bring him home.

So what is your excuse for the parents of those slain soldiers, who lost their lives while looking for Bergdahl? Almost half-a-dozen soldiers lost their lives while searching for him. Things are still not clear about Bergdahl.

Until we get more details on his side of the story, and get a fuller perspective it really is hard to tell.
That said six soldiers died looking for him is a fact so it makes this issue murkier.

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Quote from: Benjig on June 07, 2014, 03:02:11 PM

This does not mean that if the opportunity arises, we don't bring him home.

So what is your excuse for the parents of those slain soldiers, who lost their lives while looking for Bergdahl? Almost half-a-dozen soldiers lost their lives while searching for him. Things are still not clear about Bergdahl.

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For me, there are two issues at play. First, I do believe he is a traitor, and left his post, and went AWOL. I also buy into the theory, that lives were lost, looking for Berghdal, as he went out on whatever he chose to do, of his own free will. This does not mean that if the opportunity arises, we don't bring him home.

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Quote from: taipo on June 07, 2014, 01:41:57 AM

He certainly has turned out to be a disappointment, but worst president in the nations history? Na thats a split tie between Nixon and Bush Jr with Bush tipping the scales due to having the lowest IQ of any president in the known world.

Comparing Obama to Bush Jr. shows that the former is not much better by any means. I'll also agree that Bush Jr. was the worst president the US ever had. But the economy wasn't much harmed during this reign. But for comparison, 6 years of Obama rule has destroyed the American economy almost beyond any sort of repair.

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Quote from: taipo on June 07, 2014, 01:41:57 AM

Quote from: Ron~Popeil on June 05, 2014, 11:44:21 PM

Obama is by far the worst president in this nation's history.

He certainly has turned out to be a disappointment, but worst president in the nations history? Na thats a split tie between Nixon and Bush Jr with Bush tipping the scales due to having the lowest IQ of any president in the known world.

I am not a fan of the younger Bush, but the IQ thing is a myth. The difference between Obama and Nixon is that Watergate didn't kill anyone.

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Quote from: Kluge on June 07, 2014, 01:34:57 AM

I'm not particularly receptive to the idea that he should've been traded for other people to return to the US and receive the ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL healthcare provided by the VA, but that was the administration's decision.

Thats the big drawback when the state uses that 'we don't negotiate with terrorists', and all the terror rhetoric to frame their enemies.

Works well for drumming up hysteria from the docile peon nation, not so well when you have to horse trade with your enemies during prisoner swaps.

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Quote from: Ron~Popeil on June 05, 2014, 11:44:21 PM

Obama is by far the worst president in this nation's history.

He certainly has turned out to be a disappointment, but worst president in the nations history? Na thats a split tie between Nixon and Bush Jr with Bush tipping the scales due to having the lowest IQ of any president in the known world.

Kluge

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I'm kind of shocked by the responses here. Could someone arguing he should be shot give their line of thought, please? I'd guess you're arguing he entered into a contract voluntarily, and that violation of that contract deserves execution? Like if a farmhand goes AWOL and you have him on contract, he should be shot if found -- or I guess what I'm interested in, is why he should be shot rather than just let go. I'm not particularly receptive to the idea that he should've been traded for other people to return to the US and receive the ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL healthcare provided by the VA, but that was the administration's decision.

Is there evidence that this fellow actually requested to be brought back to the US? It sounds like he was enjoying himself and hated the USG, but if he actually asked to come back to the US for healthcare from a government he turned his back on, I think that completely destroys his argument.

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Quote from: RiverBoatBTC on June 06, 2014, 01:03:24 PM

Now Now fellas we live in the USA he is innocent till proven guilty, but if he did run he should be shot.

Agreed, and I hope he gets his day in court.

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Now Now fellas we live in the USA he is innocent till proven guilty, but if he did run he should be shot.

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Quote from: devthedev on June 05, 2014, 11:57:49 AM

We released 5 of the worst terrorists we had at Gitmo, and we brought home a domestic terrorist. Does that about sum it up?

+1

Those he worked with seem to agree.

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Quote from: Ron~Popeil on June 05, 2014, 05:57:39 PM

I am not a conspiracy person but the move seems so stupid that it makes me wonder if there is something else going on.

Lately nobody in the US government and army can't take a fart without a few thousands bloggers and conspiracy nuts as well as us haters claiming that the gas was part of a mastermind plan to conquer the world.

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Quote from: RiverBoatBTC on June 05, 2014, 11:49:20 PM

My brother is fighting the V.A. right now for benifits. He got cancer from living on a base with contaminated drinking water in the early 80's. They told him he might not see a payment for 2 years, How the fuck is he supposed to pay for 2500$ in medicine a month and treatments? He told me before the scandel broke the V.A. is just waiting for people to Die off so they do not have to treat them and save money, I though he was just upset about the whole thing. Guess he was right

This is why I keep saying that joining the US Army is a very bad career move. You don't gain anything in monetary terms, and you are forced to take part in battles which are masterminded by the politicians and bankers. There are plenty of other career options out there, and they should be preferred anytime over the career at the USAF.

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Quote from: devthedev on June 04, 2014, 07:31:12 PM

What the hell was Obama thinking?!

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/04/politics/bowe-bergdahl-release/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

I heard its because it was 1 person per year that the guy was held hostage.
That said Obama made a tricky decision especially with all the controversy around the guy.

Its extremely rare for the US to negotiate with terrorists not sure in my opinion it might work on the other hand it increases the danger to the 90,000 or so troops that will remain in the country afterward.

That said he did get some people out of Guantanamo now har har in the sense that he didn't close it down lol.

Edit In: Nice this was my l33t post going to leave it at this for a day ^_^

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Quote from: RiverBoatBTC on June 05, 2014, 11:54:47 PM

I even heard a fantastic way to fix the V.A. problem. The U.S. Navy, Army and Airfoce have the ability to extend contracts till the end of your non active duty. You may sign up for four years of service in the U.S. Military but you are actually signing a contract for 4 active and 4 inactive years. The need to put a stop loss on all medical jobs and send them over to the V.A. to help clear the back logs. This would speed up the process and clear the system with in a year.

If they just start fulfilling their promises it would be a start. My father has Parkinson's disease from agent orange exposure in Vietnam. My parents actually had to get an attorney to fight for his benefits.

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I even heard a fantastic way to fix the V.A. problem. The U.S. Navy, Army and Airfoce have the ability to extend contracts till the end of your non active duty. You may sign up for four years of service in the U.S. Military but you are actually signing a contract for 4 active and 4 inactive years. The need to put a stop loss on all medical jobs and send them over to the V.A. to help clear the back logs. This would speed up the process and clear the system with in a year.

Ron~Popeil

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Quote from: RiverBoatBTC on June 05, 2014, 11:49:20 PM

My brother is fighting the V.A. right now for benifits. He got cancer from living on a base with contaminated drinking water in the early 80's. They told him he might not see a payment for 2 years, How the fuck is he supposed to pay for 2500$ in medicine a month and treatments? He told me before the scandel broke the V.A. is just waiting for people to Die off so they do not have to treat them and save money, I though he was just upset about the whole thing. Guess he was right

He was exactly right. Chillingly this is the same government that just took over a huge percentage of our health care.

He should put in a call to his congressman. Helping a sick vet would be the politically expedient move for whoever his rep is right now. May as well take advantage of the political situation while it is hot to at least get the care he needs. I wish your brother a speedy recovery.

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My brother is fighting the V.A. right now for benifits. He got cancer from living on a base with contaminated drinking water in the early 80's. They told him he might not see a payment for 2 years, How the fuck is he supposed to pay for 2500$ in medicine a month and treatments? He told me before the scandel broke the V.A. is just waiting for people to Die off so they do not have to treat them and save money, I though he was just upset about the whole thing. Guess he was right

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Quote from: Slab Squathrust on June 05, 2014, 06:07:12 PM

Quote from: Ron~Popeil on June 05, 2014, 05:57:39 PM

Quote from: RiverBoatBTC on June 05, 2014, 04:59:17 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 05, 2014, 12:01:28 AM

Just one soldier released in exchange for 5 hardcore terrorists. These terrorists in turn will kill many more American soldiers. Bergdahl wasn't even a high ranking officer to begin with.

That is a really jackass thing to say, what good is a desk jokey? How many high ranking officers do you see pulling the trigger? NOT A DAMN ONE OF THEM. Save all the pencil pushing officers and throw the people who actually fight to the wayside....

While I do not agree how this was handled that comment was beyond stupid...

The real reason obama did this was to say "I did everything I could to leave no US troops behind". Do not forget we are might be 100% out of afgan by the end of the year, and to leave a captured soldier would be just another smudge on the war.

I am not a conspiracy person but the move seems so stupid that it makes me wonder if there is something else going on.

Well I am not sure you are in the US or not, but our Veterans health care service recently had a big scandal where patients may have died waiting for care. Whether this is Obama's fault or not is debatable. The VA has had issues for years long before Obama assumed the office. However, Obama did implement policy changes that may have exacerbated the situation. Some suspect this swap may have been timed to help bury that news. If true, it certainly seems to have worked.

I am in the US the the son of a Vietnam veteran. This is another scandal in a string of disgusting scandals that all seem to have cost people their lives. Obama is by far the worst president in this nation's history.

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The timing while intentional this exchange was a LONG time in the making. Like years we have been at the table with the taliban for around 2 years now.

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Quote from: Slab Squathrust on June 05, 2014, 06:07:12 PM

Some suspect this swap may have been timed to help bury that news. If true, it certainly seems to have worked.

American politicians are experts in diverting media attention away from their wrongdoings. I can give you dozens of examples for that. I am not much familiar with the veteran healthcare scandal... but seems like a viable explanation for me.

Yakamoto

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So is this shaping up to be Homeland, just real?

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Quote from: Ron~Popeil on June 05, 2014, 05:57:39 PM

Quote from: RiverBoatBTC on June 05, 2014, 04:59:17 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 05, 2014, 12:01:28 AM

Just one soldier released in exchange for 5 hardcore terrorists. These terrorists in turn will kill many more American soldiers. Bergdahl wasn't even a high ranking officer to begin with.

That is a really jackass thing to say, what good is a desk jokey? How many high ranking officers do you see pulling the trigger? NOT A DAMN ONE OF THEM. Save all the pencil pushing officers and throw the people who actually fight to the wayside....

While I do not agree how this was handled that comment was beyond stupid...

The real reason obama did this was to say "I did everything I could to leave no US troops behind". Do not forget we are might be 100% out of afgan by the end of the year, and to leave a captured soldier would be just another smudge on the war.

I am not a conspiracy person but the move seems so stupid that it makes me wonder if there is something else going on.

Well I am not sure you are in the US or not, but our Veterans health care service recently had a big scandal where patients may have died waiting for care. Whether this is Obama's fault or not is debatable. The VA has had issues for years long before Obama assumed the office. However, Obama did implement policy changes that may have exacerbated the situation. Some suspect this swap may have been timed to help bury that news. If true, it certainly seems to have worked.

Ron~Popeil

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Quote from: RiverBoatBTC on June 05, 2014, 04:59:17 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 05, 2014, 12:01:28 AM

Just one soldier released in exchange for 5 hardcore terrorists. These terrorists in turn will kill many more American soldiers. Bergdahl wasn't even a high ranking officer to begin with.

That is a really jackass thing to say, what good is a desk jokey? How many high ranking officers do you see pulling the trigger? NOT A DAMN ONE OF THEM. Save all the pencil pushing officers and throw the people who actually fight to the wayside....

While I do not agree how this was handled that comment was beyond stupid...

The real reason obama did this was to say "I did everything I could to leave no US troops behind". Do not forget we are might be 100% out of afgan by the end of the year, and to leave a captured soldier would be just another smudge on the war.

I am not a conspiracy person but the move seems so stupid that it makes me wonder if there is something else going on.

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 05, 2014, 12:01:28 AM

Just one soldier released in exchange for 5 hardcore terrorists. These terrorists in turn will kill many more American soldiers. Bergdahl wasn't even a high ranking officer to begin with.

That is a really jackass thing to say, what good is a desk jokey? How many high ranking officers do you see pulling the trigger? NOT A DAMN ONE OF THEM. Save all the pencil pushing officers and throw the people who actually fight to the wayside....

While I do not agree how this was handled that comment was beyond stupid...

The real reason obama did this was to say "I did everything I could to leave no US troops behind". Do not forget we are might be 100% out of afgan by the end of the year, and to leave a captured soldier would be just another smudge on the war.

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That sums up Foxnews's views to the tee.

devthedev

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We released 5 of the worst terrorists we had at Gitmo, and we brought home a domestic terrorist. Does that about sum it up?

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Quote from: niothor on June 05, 2014, 08:02:32 AM

Wonder if you would say the same if he was part of your family.
It got so easy to comment if somebody needs to be saved or killed when you're sitting comfy in your chair with a beer in your hand and typing on a forum.

In military, there is no room for personal emotions. If I was given a choice between 10 dead soldiers and one dead soldier, I'd definitely select the latter option. Giving in to blackmail starts a bad precedent.

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Quote from: niothor on June 05, 2014, 08:02:32 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 05, 2014, 12:01:28 AM

Just one soldier released in exchange for 5 hardcore terrorists. These terrorists in turn will kill many more American soldiers. Bergdahl wasn't even a high ranking officer to begin with.

Quote from: Ron~Popeil on June 05, 2014, 12:59:39 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 05, 2014, 12:01:28 AM

Just one soldier released in exchange for 5 hardcore terrorists. These terrorists in turn will kill many more American soldiers. Bergdahl wasn't even a high ranking officer to begin with.

Yeah this was a really stupid decision. It also signals to them that our government will trade prisoners with them which makes kidnappings and hostage taking much more likely.

We can keep our soldiers safe by keeping them at home instead of in so many countries. We could also save a ton of money that way.

Wonder if you would say the same if he was part of your family.
It got so easy to comment if somebody needs to be saved or killed when you're sitting comfy in your chair with a beer in your hand and typing on a forum.

The point is that when you do this sort of thing you encourage more of it. This was not a simple prisoner exchange of legitimate soldiers. These were hard core terrorists that have and will now continue to kill people. What will you say to the family of the next person that is kidnapped by these bastards and they start demanding we release Khalid Sheik Mohammed?

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Quote from: Charlie Prime on June 05, 2014, 09:36:53 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 05, 2014, 12:01:28 AM

Just one soldier released in exchange for 5 hardcore terrorists.

How do you know they are "hardcore terrorists" ?

Check the available information:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/03/taliban-five-obama-bergdahl-taliban-prisoners-guantanamo
http://nypost.com/2014/06/04/obama-admits-terrorists-in-bergdahl-swap-could-take-up-arms-against-us/

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Quote from: jambola2 on June 05, 2014, 09:34:40 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 05, 2014, 12:01:28 AM

Just one soldier released in exchange for 5 hardcore terrorists. These terrorists in turn will kill many more American soldiers. Bergdahl wasn't even a high ranking officer to begin with.

His rank isn't important there, the point Obama is trying to make is that he was a POW. And indeed, he was. So were the 5 Gitmo detainees. It was a POW exchange, nothing untoward about it.

Also, the Army is taking the stance that he is innocent until proven guilty with regard to the allegations that he went AWOL/deserted his post.

So until he's proven guilty, it's like you said: He's a POW.

Charlie Prime

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 05, 2014, 12:01:28 AM

Just one soldier released in exchange for 5 hardcore terrorists.

How do you know they are "hardcore terrorists" ?

jambola2

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 05, 2014, 12:01:28 AM

Just one soldier released in exchange for 5 hardcore terrorists. These terrorists in turn will kill many more American soldiers. Bergdahl wasn't even a high ranking officer to begin with.

His rank isn't important there, the point Obama is trying to make is that he was a POW. And indeed, he was. So were the 5 Gitmo detainees. It was a POW exchange, nothing untoward about it.

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Quote from: taipo on June 05, 2014, 07:49:11 AM

Quote from: devthedev on June 04, 2014, 07:45:28 PM

Since when do we negotiate with terrorists? -_-

Daily...

Remember when Special Envoy Rumsfeld was 'negotiating' with Saddam Hussein? They are not called terrorists when their objectives match those of US foreign policy/war machine. They get called activists, or freedom fighters. Its an Orwellian word-smith game that has been played in every war and in dozens of US backed overthrows by terrorists around the world.

The US has a history of prisoner swaps with their enemies. Thats all this is.

I don't think the American government considers the Taliban a terrorist organization.

A deposed government at this point, but not a terrorist organization.

It's semantics I guess.

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 05, 2014, 12:01:28 AM

Just one soldier released in exchange for 5 hardcore terrorists. These terrorists in turn will kill many more American soldiers. Bergdahl wasn't even a high ranking officer to begin with.

Quote from: Ron~Popeil on June 05, 2014, 12:59:39 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 05, 2014, 12:01:28 AM

Just one soldier released in exchange for 5 hardcore terrorists. These terrorists in turn will kill many more American soldiers. Bergdahl wasn't even a high ranking officer to begin with.

Yeah this was a really stupid decision. It also signals to them that our government will trade prisoners with them which makes kidnappings and hostage taking much more likely.

We can keep our soldiers safe by keeping them at home instead of in so many countries. We could also save a ton of money that way.

Wonder if you would say the same if he was part of your family.
It got so easy to comment if somebody needs to be saved or killed when you're sitting comfy in your chair with a beer in your hand and typing on a forum.

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Quote from: devthedev on June 04, 2014, 07:45:28 PM

Since when do we negotiate with terrorists? -_-

Daily...

Remember when Special Envoy Rumsfeld was 'negotiating' with Saddam Hussein? They are not called terrorists when their objectives match those of US foreign policy/war machine. They get called activists, or freedom fighters. Its an Orwellian word-smith game that has been played in every war and in dozens of US backed overthrows by terrorists around the world.

The US has a history of prisoner swaps with their enemies. Thats all this is.

beetcoin

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wow, for once i might agree with what republicans on fox are saying. well, at least i understand their point.

JohnnyLightning

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The only explanation I can think of that makes sense is that the recent outing of the Afghan CIA head put their deep cover operative in jeopardy so they had to extract him, but that would be a conspiracy theory. Shocked

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Quote from: TECSHARE on June 04, 2014, 07:44:07 PM

I don't necessarily support these conclusions or disagree with them, but I do find them interesting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2647397/Revealed-Bowe-Bergdahl-left-note-comrades-telling-leaving-start-new-life-Army-general-says-faces-desertion-charges.html

Weird. That directly contradicts earlier reports from comrades that he left no indication he was leaving, a non-communication which allegedly led to several deaths as US military personnel searched under the assumption that he was kidnapped. Later, it was suggested he was feeding the Taliban information on weaknesses in US positions which led to further deaths. All this time, he was supposedly playing badminton with the Taliban but ill and apparently without proper healthcare to see him well, so the Obama admin. decided to bring him home in exchange for five enemy combatants in Gitmo instead of letting him die a natural death....... so he's in the excellent hands of the VA, I guess? Glad I followed media reporting on this and now have the facts. Roll Eyes

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Quote from: Ron~Popeil on June 05, 2014, 12:59:39 AM

Yeah this was a really stupid decision. It also signals to them that our government will trade prisoners with them which makes kidnappings and hostage taking much more likely.

May be. But during the USSR-Taliban war, the latter captured a hundreds of Soviet soldiers, despite the fact that the USSR never agreed for a prisoner swap. Culminated in the infamous Badaber uprising.

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 05, 2014, 12:01:28 AM

Just one soldier released in exchange for 5 hardcore terrorists. These terrorists in turn will kill many more American soldiers. Bergdahl wasn't even a high ranking officer to begin with.

Yeah this was a really stupid decision. It also signals to them that our government will trade prisoners with them which makes kidnappings and hostage taking much more likely.

We can keep our soldiers safe by keeping them at home instead of in so many countries. We could also save a ton of money that way.

bryant.coleman

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Just one soldier released in exchange for 5 hardcore terrorists. These terrorists in turn will kill many more American soldiers. Bergdahl wasn't even a high ranking officer to begin with.

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