USD / Crypto Pairing question | Bitcointalksearch.org

awik p

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Quote from: NathanJB on January 28, 2020, 10:24:58 PM

Quote from: CarnagexD on January 28, 2020, 10:47:20 AM

Quote from: NathanJB on January 27, 2020, 10:28:13 PM

Quote from: tartibaya on January 27, 2020, 05:29:57 PM

The dollar connection with Cryptocurrency should now be broken. I think let's calculate Bitcoin value in gold. Because we have made a more memorable and real comparison. Bitcoin opened the door of a new economic model. Let's not compare with classic vehicles anymore.

And how is the value of gold measured and valued? In US Dollar and other fiat currencies also.

For now, it is hard to let go of the connection because fiat still rules the monetary world. But we will of course get away with it in due time.

Indeed. Pretty much everything is still dependent on fiat despite claims saying that it's already dying. We can't really abolish the cryptocurrency-USD relationship just yet because of how unsuitable for commerce bitcoin and most of today's cryptocurrencies are. Hopefully in the near future this will change. I know everyone's eager to see cryotocurrency winning this race at the end of the line.

But the race has just started and it will probably take more than a lifetime. The winner might be known during the time of our children or our grandchildren. For now, even the fiat currency is transforming into more or less like Bitcoin. They are now embarking on a mission to shift into a digital currency. With this, I'm afraid it will last more than its old physical form. They are riding the call of the times.

indeed the development of online transactions is more desirable because it is considered more effective, but the difference is only the payment system, different from bitcoin that uses a peer to peer system, and cannot be controlled by anyone. therefore this is a barrier for the government to legalize it

NathanJB

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Quote from: CarnagexD on January 28, 2020, 10:47:20 AM

Quote from: NathanJB on January 27, 2020, 10:28:13 PM

Quote from: tartibaya on January 27, 2020, 05:29:57 PM

The dollar connection with Cryptocurrency should now be broken. I think let's calculate Bitcoin value in gold. Because we have made a more memorable and real comparison. Bitcoin opened the door of a new economic model. Let's not compare with classic vehicles anymore.

And how is the value of gold measured and valued? In US Dollar and other fiat currencies also.

For now, it is hard to let go of the connection because fiat still rules the monetary world. But we will of course get away with it in due time.

Indeed. Pretty much everything is still dependent on fiat despite claims saying that it's already dying. We can't really abolish the cryptocurrency-USD relationship just yet because of how unsuitable for commerce bitcoin and most of today's cryptocurrencies are. Hopefully in the near future this will change. I know everyone's eager to see cryotocurrency winning this race at the end of the line.

But the race has just started and it will probably take more than a lifetime. The winner might be known during the time of our children or our grandchildren. For now, even the fiat currency is transforming into more or less like Bitcoin. They are now embarking on a mission to shift into a digital currency. With this, I'm afraid it will last more than its old physical form. They are riding the call of the times.

CarnagexD

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Quote from: NathanJB on January 27, 2020, 10:28:13 PM

Quote from: tartibaya on January 27, 2020, 05:29:57 PM

The dollar connection with Cryptocurrency should now be broken. I think let's calculate Bitcoin value in gold. Because we have made a more memorable and real comparison. Bitcoin opened the door of a new economic model. Let's not compare with classic vehicles anymore.

And how is the value of gold measured and valued? In US Dollar and other fiat currencies also.

For now, it is hard to let go of the connection because fiat still rules the monetary world. But we will of course get away with it in due time.

Indeed. Pretty much everything is still dependent on fiat despite claims saying that it's already dying. We can't really abolish the cryptocurrency-USD relationship just yet because of how unsuitable for commerce bitcoin and most of today's cryptocurrencies are. Hopefully in the near future this will change. I know everyone's eager to see cryotocurrency winning this race at the end of the line.

NathanJB

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Quote from: tartibaya on January 27, 2020, 05:29:57 PM

The dollar connection with Cryptocurrency should now be broken. I think let's calculate Bitcoin value in gold. Because we have made a more memorable and real comparison. Bitcoin opened the door of a new economic model. Let's not compare with classic vehicles anymore.

And how is the value of gold measured and valued? In US Dollar and other fiat currencies also.

For now, it is hard to let go of the connection because fiat still rules the monetary world. But we will of course get away with it in due time.

tartibaya

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The dollar connection with Cryptocurrency should now be broken. I think let's calculate Bitcoin value in gold. Because we have made a more memorable and real comparison. Bitcoin opened the door of a new economic model. Let's not compare with classic vehicles anymore.

Brunus

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I think these questions - which would make sense in traditional economics - have no meaning when it comes to crypto.
The movements are too dependent on the individual choices of the few who manipulate the market, and in any case USD and BTC travel on totally independent paths.

Polar91

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To consider, buying cryptocurrency in different fiat currency or in USD in particular, is a free decision we could make in order to accumulate bitcoin, bitcoin's value is easily determined by the USD because of wider market adoption of it and accepting it as standard of international transaction. But to consider, cryptocurrency pairing of a crypto to a stable coin is mainly used to save profit whenever a decline is about to happen. In addition, people could buy USDT or any other stable coins using USD, and the same effect will take place.

hugeblack

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I want to remind you of three differences. First, the price of $hitcoin if it is hosted on one platform or a certain number of platforms, allows them to manipulate prices, just like what happens with a lot of Scam currencies.

USDT exchange rate is merely a mathematical value to stabilize an exchange rate when speculating and has no real value, meaning that it is just an order to stabilize the price at a certain limit and does not represent the value of the dollar in real terms.

The assumption above is correct based on the rule that the pairs are separate but mathematically, if the platform is not Scam, this will increase the market capacity for BTC.

crossabdd

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the value of BTC and USD is very different, 1BTC = $ 8600, and 1 satoshi = $ 0.000086. so, even though your shitcoin has a value of $ 0.000096. It will not change price of the pair with BTC. because price will change if the price of USD pair reaches more than $ 0,000172. then price on BTC will be 2 satoshi.

Twentyonepaylots

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Quote from: btcmurat on January 20, 2020, 04:32:24 PM

The increase in the bitcoin price is directly effective with the increase in the dollar supply. People just think it offers a new economy. Can bitcoin increase in war or disaster situations? This can be. But it may be just the opposite. Restricting the supply of the dollar can pose a problem.

Besides, this trading scheme provides higher risks that outweigh the profits you can gain with $SHIT. Lack of people who would want to try your coin out will cause it to die, along with the investments kf the first people who pumped money on this shitcoin. So it's not reall worth it to do if I do say so myself. Better to just invest on established coins if ever.

squatz1

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on January 21, 2020, 02:53:45 AM

Quote from: QEHedge on January 20, 2020, 10:07:41 AM

That doesn't change the fact that there is only only 3 BTC buy order for it does it?

If I understood it right, I think that this may be the "error".

If somebody pushes the price up so badly the BTC buy orders will change, in a way or another:
* some will simply remove them
* some will change them and offer more for $SHIT
Obviously some could remain untouched, but they will be obsolete (too small the offer for now pumped $SHIT) and nobody expects them to be filled.

Now the "official" market price of $SHIT is 1$ and the old unfilled BTC orders won't change that.
And since USDT can be exchanged into Bitcoin easily, the old BTC orders don't affect / matter anymore. As I said, they may be superseded by newer and more expensive buy orders.

All of this can just be explained in one word. Arbitrage. If there was a arbitrage opportunity present, say the USDT verison for Bitcoin was $1000 less then the USD verison of it. That would cause people to (very quickly) correct this. They'd make some money at first, but they'd slowly fill the gap. This is why this sort of thing may happen, but it doesn't last for long.

This is why people may say that this doesn't even happen, because bots are going to clean this up pretty quickly to make some fast cash.s

exstasie

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Quote from: QEHedge on January 20, 2020, 10:07:41 AM

Am i correct with my thinking? And if this is the case , why wouldn't everyone just make their own fiat trading pairs and use that to pump their shitcoins to the sky by doing Q.E?

If you pump the fiat pair, traders will buy up the BTC pair and dump on you to arbitrage the difference.

Natural supply from $SHIT holders will increase on both pairs as the price rises, increasing your averages costs. You're basically just buying up the shitcoins at successively higher prices. This, combined with pressure from arbitragers, makes the pump expensive. Meanwhile, there is no guarantee you will have bids to sell into since there is no organic demand. Very risky!

FanEagle

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The true reason is that, nobody is an idiot to not take advantage of that which is fairly super easy to do so. If the price of that coin changes highly on the USDT pair but stays the same on BTC, anyone could basically go into that btc pair and buy that coin and then sell it on the usdt market of it.

Now, if this is one thing deal we are talking about and there is so little volume that people do not trade on it at all and there is zero volume on it, maybe you can do this, but in any coin with even couple hundred dollars volume, if someone buys a whole lot of it on USDT pair, some people with take advantage of the arbitrage and make things square up with the btc pair. Simply put, btc to shit to usdt is still there viable, no one can not look at that if the price of usdt to shitcoin changes.

worle1bm

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Quote from: QEHedge on January 20, 2020, 10:07:41 AM

So lets say this. I have a shitcoin. Lets called it $SHIT.

Now $SHIT is worth 0.00000001 BTC (Or $0.000087USD at time of writing) and there is a 1 BTC buy order for it on all exchanges (Say 3 of them) Total 3BTC in Buy orders total.

Now lets say that all 3 of those exchanges have now added USDT / $SHIT

And someone uses their USDT to buy up 1B of them and lets say it pushes the price of USD from $0.000087 -> 1 Dollar.

That doesn't change the fact that there is only only 3 BTC buy order for it does it?

If the USD Value goes up in value , it doesn't mean that the BTC value rises as well does it?

(My thinking is that there must be a buyer of said asset and a seller of said asset) If no one is buying the BTC pair but only the USDT pair , then how would it have value except in USD value maybe?

Am i correct with my thinking? And if this is the case , why wouldn't everyone just make their own fiat trading pairs and use that to pump their shitcoins to the sky by doing Q.E?

You missed one important point. The exchange also have BTC/USDT pair. It is impossible to manipulate any market with USDT alone because sooner or later, the same will effect BTC/USDT pair too and whole market will be corrected back to normal.

Let say if price of $SHIT rises to $1 from $0.000087, it will either increase the price of BTC in BTC/USDT pair or increase the price of $SHIT in $SHIT/BTC pair or the price of $SHIT/USDT pair will adjust back to $0.000087 after 10-15 trades when every trader will run to arbitrage the difference.

naikturun

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I think those who place buy orders always pay attention to the two pairs so if there is a difference in value they somehow equalize right away so there is no difference between the two, that's how the market works.
if not from the beginning maybe people have done what you said, am I wrong?

Mihaylovic

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Idea is good. But i think you can not be fast enough to gain a profit about from that. Because i am pretty sure that there are bots that controling the pairs and gets the profits quickly.

The Cryptovator

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I will not quote your all question, just simply trying to answer at once. If a exchange add a new USD pair so called $SHIT coin then sell order will moved to USD/$SHIT from BTC/$SHIT instantly. If USD market start bump then traders would cancel their sell order from btc pair to sell it high price. In a result btc and USD both pair value will be equal. If not, then everyone will buy with btc and they will sell for USD because they could again convert their USD to btc. But it will not happen, and market will be stable within short time or both pair will be bumped.

If you are think if its happen on different exchange, then what will happen. It's very simple, traders will buy from a exchange and they will sell on another exchange. I forgot the name but it has been happened before, when Binance add a new pair that coin price were bumped suddenly, then traders bought from other exchange and moved to Binance and sell on high price. But Binance disable deposit when they noticed it. So that will happen even with USD pair, and market will become stable.

cengat

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Quote from: QEHedge on January 20, 2020, 10:07:41 AM

Why wouldn't everyone just make their own fiat trading pairs and use that to pump their shitcoins to the sky by doing Q.E?

There were a bunch of good answers on other your questions, so I'll try to answer on this particular one.
First of all, there is no way to pump it without any real interest from users in your $SHIT coin.
So before you'll be able to pump your coin you gotta make your whole way from scratch to decent usable and popular coin/token (which is not easy at all).
And then you can try to pump it so that way you probably can sell and buy it several times and get your profit in USD.
Which will lead to total crash of $SHIT coin you've made.
I won't do the real math around it, but I'm pretty sure that running of decent coin is more profitable in long term than this one-time shill action.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: QEHedge on January 20, 2020, 10:07:41 AM

That doesn't change the fact that there is only only 3 BTC buy order for it does it?

If I understood it right, I think that this may be the "error".

If somebody pushes the price up so badly the BTC buy orders will change, in a way or another:
* some will simply remove them
* some will change them and offer more for $SHIT
Obviously some could remain untouched, but they will be obsolete (too small the offer for now pumped $SHIT) and nobody expects them to be filled.

Now the "official" market price of $SHIT is 1$ and the old unfilled BTC orders won't change that.
And since USDT can be exchanged into Bitcoin easily, the old BTC orders don't affect / matter anymore. As I said, they may be superseded by newer and more expensive buy orders.

avikz

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Quote from: QEHedge on January 20, 2020, 10:07:41 AM

So lets say this. I have a shitcoin. Lets called it $SHIT.

Now $SHIT is worth 0.00000001 BTC (Or $0.000087USD at time of writing) and there is a 1 BTC buy order for it on all exchanges (Say 3 of them) Total 3BTC in Buy orders total.

Now lets say that all 3 of those exchanges have now added USDT / $SHIT

And someone uses their USDT to buy up 1B of them and lets say it pushes the price of USD from $0.000087 -> 1 Dollar.

That doesn't change the fact that there is only only 3 BTC buy order for it does it?

If the USD Value goes up in value , it doesn't mean that the BTC value rises as well does it?

(My thinking is that there must be a buyer of said asset and a seller of said asset) If no one is buying the BTC pair but only the USDT pair , then how would it have value except in USD value maybe?

Am i correct with my thinking? And if this is the case , why wouldn't everyone just make their own fiat trading pairs and use that to pump their shitcoins to the sky by doing Q.E?

It all depends on the unit you are using for trade. If USDT value goes up in the market, that doesn't necessarily mean that less USDT unit will require to buy bitcoin. Same goes for other coins as well. So if you are using your shitcoin to buy bitcoin, the value remains unchanged in the scenario you have presented. At least the change in value is not very fast so that it can effect the price of your shitcoin.

Hope this helps!

d.kevin29

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Unless there are bots or the market is manipulated well enough on the medium/long term, this pump would result in a huge loss for the man who spends their USDT to buy 1B $SHIT.

But I doubt there are bots on a coin that has no trading volume. A total of 3BTC buy orders mean an insignificant amount of money is traded, so you won't earn much off it with a bit. Therefore, the only way this could end is there would be a huge a$$ candle on the USDT graph and the price would then return back to its initial value: 1 sat.

HabBear

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Good question, i'll add one new perspective.

Currency trading is nearly always a 1:1 impact - meaning that the currency being sold and the currency being bought are the only two currencies being directly affected by the that transaction. There is, however an indirect impact. Say someone in United States decides to by Yen, lots of Yen. Well say that Yankee has a friend who's Canadian. And that Canadian sees what his friend is doing, buying all this Yen with his USD. So much so that this friend decides to buy Yen too, with his Canadian Dollars. Now, the CAD may go down as a trend of this first activity in USD to buy Yen.

Buying behavior is very psychological, more so than most people realize. It's something that the crypto industry is incredibly sensitive too. Something to keep in mind!

btcmurat

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The increase in the bitcoin price is directly effective with the increase in the dollar supply. People just think it offers a new economy. Can bitcoin increase in war or disaster situations? This can be. But it may be just the opposite. Restricting the supply of the dollar can pose a problem.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: QEHedge on January 20, 2020, 10:07:41 AM

That doesn't change the fact that there is only only 3 BTC buy order for it does it?

Correct. The USDT and BTC markets are entirely separate. A buy or sell order on one is not reflected on the other.

Quote from: QEHedge on January 20, 2020, 10:07:41 AM

If the USD Value goes up in value , it doesn't mean that the BTC value rises as well does it?

Not automatically. If both markets were being actively traded, you would expect any big price movements on one to be quickly mirrored on the other. If one market has no liquidity though, then it won't move automatically just because the other has.

Quote from: QEHedge on January 20, 2020, 10:07:41 AM

(My thinking is that there must be a buyer of said asset and a seller of said asset) If no one is buying the BTC pair but only the USDT pair , then how would it have value except in USD value maybe?

Again, correct. The price on the BTC market will be whatever the price was of the last trade that was made. The same is true of the USDT market. If there are no buyers and sellers on one market, then the price will not change on that market.

Quote from: QEHedge on January 20, 2020, 10:07:41 AM

And if this is the case , why wouldn't everyone just make their own fiat trading pairs and use that to pump their shitcoins to the sky by doing Q.E?

There's nothing stopping you from trying. You'll need to get exchanges to accept your coins, create the markets you need, and get users to buy in though.

QEHedge

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So lets say this. I have a shitcoin. Lets called it $SHIT.

Now $SHIT is worth 0.00000001 BTC (Or $0.000087USD at time of writing) and there is a 1 BTC buy order for it on all exchanges (Say 3 of them) Total 3BTC in Buy orders total.

Now lets say that all 3 of those exchanges have now added USDT / $SHIT

And someone uses their USDT to buy up 1B of them and lets say it pushes the price of USD from $0.000087 -> 1 Dollar.

That doesn't change the fact that there is only only 3 BTC buy order for it does it?

If the USD Value goes up in value , it doesn't mean that the BTC value rises as well does it?

(My thinking is that there must be a buyer of said asset and a seller of said asset) If no one is buying the BTC pair but only the USDT pair , then how would it have value except in USD value maybe?

Am i correct with my thinking? And if this is the case , why wouldn't everyone just make their own fiat trading pairs and use that to pump their shitcoins to the sky by doing Q.E?

Topic: USD / Crypto Pairing question (Read 342 times)