Topic: use your head before purchasing mining equipment.... (Read 3388 times)

Even submersion (Cooking oil should work like 3M solution as the material, possibly from "oil fish" more than from crude oil too) is applied to control the cooling cost, You still need massive amount of accelerator to follow up (Can you own more than 2Th/s SHA-256 Array yourself?). I think, This may be the time to switch to scrypt if you are completely new.

Additionally, I have heard there is a group of people trying to use GPU to XOR the result from SHA-256 array to speed up the harvest. Invest on Scrypt Instead of SHA-2 pure is currently a good idea.

Well 3M makes a better liquid to manage thermal footprint with hardware submersion

P.S.

Here is the new hardware return vs network increase outlook.

I fully expect it to even out some time after november 2013 as people start to get a realization that hardware price is too high at this time.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3077414

One direct way is using cooking oil to reduce the amounts of fans as the stable temperature should be 336K.

I am working on this, But Lack of money to do.

Pre-order = lending money to people who will use it to make your gear obsolete.  Simple as that.  Without the pre-order money, *none of today's ASIC manufacturers would exist*. 
Network more secure?  Lol, eligius.­st is down, ghash.io hashing at 140TH/s, network hashrate seems to have dropped 200TH/s in less than a day -- you tell me. (nothing against Bitfury, i think they're awesome)

actually i was wrong cuz with increase in difficulty, the number that you divide for should increase to(same % of difficulty), in other word the  cost of your miner should remain the same

I think it is absolutely insane to even consider buying an ASIC at this point, the difficulty is already 65.7 million and will only blast up more and more as people receive their pre-ordered ASIC miners. 

Can you imagine what the difficulty will be in October or December?  Over 100 million easily!  At that point a 5 Ghash ASIC will not be very profitable, and useless for anything else!

USELESS!  You'll see them at flea markets for $5.

That is all well and good however a few details should be considered.

The network difficulty is going to be 85M+ within the next 24 hrs.

The next issue is how long before the hardware is in hand and running.

How much backorder product is going to hit the network within the next 3 months?

Unlike GPU hardware, with its resell value intact. The risks involved in mining with asic's can be costly.

this should always work when investing in miners

digits before the point are what you need in GH/TH ecc.., and their cost must be the difficulty/2

example

now we have 65M difficulty, so you need a 65GH/s with a max cost of 32.5 btc

ROI 3 months

Solar power is never free.

The panels have an upfront cost, the panels have installation cost, there is annual maintenance, the components have finite lifespan.

Solar power per kWh = (lifetime costs / lifetime power generated)

Thankful I got some DrillBit System boards. I do hope they succeed! As mention about, seems all of them getting hard, but hopefully still get ROI before some monster come out in Dec time.

nice link. Ill add it to the post along with your username

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/network-difficulty-increase-20-to-35-estimated-roi-bflavalonkncbitfury-273264

At the link above you will find charts for KNC/BFL/BitFury/Avalon returns on 20% 30% and 35% network difficulty increases.

Check out the multiple tabs. However realize that I do not expect the network increase to taper off until well after november december hardware price adjustments as purchases dwindle.

Two factors always helps peg the network difficulty increase. Projected hardware sale's / delivery dates along with bitcoins value at the time of purchase.

Honestly if you think Bitcoin value will go up you are better off purchasing btc at this time.

This charts include potential BTC return over a given time line.

Thus far average for the year is 20% but that is expected to be in the 30% for the next 4 difficulty changes.

If I were standing there, offering to give you $80 if you gave me $100, and I would do it as many times as you'd like, would it be "defeatist" to not play my game?

If your purpose of mining is to secure the network and you don't care about mined coins, great.  Buy all the miners you want, though it won't matter much compared to the large clusters coming online soon.

If you actually care about getting something in return, preordering hardware or buying available miners right now is not a winning game.

If you're honest about the fact that you're going to be losing money on buying miners, great.  It's your coin, do with it as you wish.  But I wish people would stop playing the goofy game of "Look how I've spun the numbers to convince myself a bad purchase is going to make me a lot of money maybe!"

I didn't say that, but if you dont have the extra money then I wouldnt do it. I would take that money and invest in the coin itself. Like I said earlier people that got the batch 1 avalons and mined 20-80 coins a day have the extra coin to just throw around at the different mining companies. But people that are bringing straight money out of their pocket to invest in a miner should invest in the coin itself to be honest. And cointerra is highly reputable I think

All right it will be interesting to see what they come up with.

As for right now, andrewboy44 thinks we shouldn't order any mining hardware from anyone? Just give up and let the 'big boys' play with their toys? Defeatist attitude?

Also consider dropping your electricity costs down to zero by setting up alternative energy. It could be solar or wind. That will increase your BTC profit margin. You only need few panels to power up ASIC Miners.

Considering that Cointerra is made up of a veritable "who's who" from the Semiconductor industry while every other ASIC concern is made up of people who have only fleeting/recent fame based on their recent Bitcoin efforts (minus Josh, Sonny and company, but I wouldn't want the fame/infamy they have from their efforts previous to bitcoin), I would guess that Cointerra "flew under your radar".

Then again, it could be perceived to be like "the big kids have come to play in the kiddie pool". If their plans work out, it won't be pretty for the other players.

Edited: because morning sans coffee makes for poor grammar.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7246/the-rush-to-bitcoin-asics-ravi-iyengar-launches-cointerra


"Coming into the ASIC market is CoinTerra, headed up by Ravi Iyengar, former CPU Lead Architect at Samsung’s Austin Research Center (SARC).  Ravi’s focus at SARC was on the CPU Mid-Core, including integer execution and special purpose registers (good for Bitcoin).  His history also includes helping design chips for the SGS4, as well as stints at Intel, Qualcomm and NVIDIA.  At CoinTerra he is joined by Jim O’Connor, VP of Engineering with a history of SOC design and Dr. Naveed Sherwani, CEO of Open Silicon.  CoinTerra has raised $1.5 million from investors to fund development costs and an initial production run.

CoinTerra’s first high-end product for launch is listed as a 2000 Gigahashes per second Bitcoin miner (or 2 TH/s), powered by four 28nm ASICs running at 500 GH/s each.  These would be housed in a 2U air-cooled container, and draw up to 1200W (estimated) for 0.6 W/GH/s."

They do sound like they know what they're doing.

http://www.open-silicon.com/management/

"Dr. Sherwani co-architected the Intel microprocessor design methodology and environment that has been used in several leading microprocessors. Prior to joining Intel, he worked as a consultant for various telecommunications and computer companies, mainly focusing on ASIC design flow and cell library design to improve time-to-market. He also served as a Professor at Western Michigan University, where his research concentrated on VLSI Physical Design Automation, combinatorics, and graph algorithms."

http://www.linkedin.com/in/jgoconnor

http://www.linkedin.com/in/ravidiyengar

I have never heard of cointerra before now and you dismiss all the other major parties pretty quickly (except perhaps KNC but they havent shipped anything yet). I am thinking perhaps you have a vested interested with cointerra? Either that or this company has completely flown under my radar.

yeah that is true. I'm just going off of the current market and I personally thing cointerra is the best.

These things always come in waves... Right now we're in a trough. Luck and experience will tell us when we can catch the next wave and how long we can ride it before wiping out. The best surfers will ride each wave as they pass and gracefully exit (or not so gracefully, but at least still alive) when the time is right.

Now is definitely not the time to catch it... Especially since it looks like we're getting tugged by a riptide. But there's definitely another wave coming (and hopefully at the right price).

just a quote from someone else that agrees once the 28 nm chips from cointerra hit its over

ehh it could possibly be something. I left out bitfury ha.. Ive actually talked to the guy behind the bitfury reseller website for us customers and I feel like its a 100% legit company. But you have to remember its only 400ghs and like I said that could be worth nothing. cointerra is selling their chips and I would buy those before I buy bitfurys chips

What do you think about Drillbit and their Group Buy/build based on Bitfury chips?

Bitcoin mining is becoming very appealing. So many newbs are rushing into it and not calculating what they are doing. Here is a little I guess "guide" or refrence.
Avalon miners are pretty much worthless now. I would honestly not pay anything over 1000-2500 for them depending on the model ( 60-85gh/s)

bfl has a nice 600 gh graphics card type miner but lets be real... who in there right mind would trust bfl ever again... there miner is very appealing but I would never ever trust them with my money again.

kncminer offers a series of miners at a pretty nice price. If kncminer ships by the end of october then they will turn out to be a very very good purchase for those that have purchased. Their 400 gh miner is only 6,995. So paying 8000 for a avalon miner off of ebay is not even worth it.

asic miner has a few resellers. You can buy 10gh blades for 5.79 btc or buy 10 10gh blades for 5 btc each. so 50 btc for 100gh/s (100,000mh/s) ***another reason why paying 6-8000 dollars for a avalon miner off of ebay is pointless... you can pay 6500 for 100 ghs or up to 8000 for 60-85 gh/s.... rip off

cointerra offers a 2th minner (2000gh/s) for only 14000 dollars and has a valid team and thinks their miners will be ready to ship by the end of december.....

With all this being said my point is dont waste your money buying avalon miners and asic miner usbs thinking you will make tons of btc... Because the truth is when bfl finishes shipping and avavlon finishes batch three (some people are yet to get it) and their chips are done, a 60-400ghs can possibly be worthless.

People that bought avalon batch 1's are the luckiest people because they made tons and tons of btc and have broke even a long long time ago so therefore they have btc to spread out among the companies just in case one fails them. For new miners I say your best bet is to go with cointerra. Even if they dont ship until feb thats still 2000gh/s of power.... Also investing into the coin will also be good.

btc-1PRrDU7begCBsrEjEt6QdPYnsDHiDUEVM9 ltc-LLSEcUz7ZgasgLkDP57YKDTkk4w2Cask9q

VERY NICE INFO THANKS TO Sitarow, CHECK IT OUT https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/network-difficulty-increase-20-to-35-estimated-roi-bflavalonkncbitfury-273264

*edit- hashfast also has a nice deal going on. only 8 units left though in the first batch. 400ghs for 5,600. they are suppose to ship oct 20-30th and if you dont make your money back in 90 days they give you 400% more hashing on every unit you bought. only have 8 left in stock, they are updating how many units are being bought, and the are now allowing backorders! whose going to buy me one?(; lol. but it sounds nice