Topic: Using a 220V wash machine outlet for power..... (Read 10781 times)

The dryer could very well use more than 15 amps. Most do. Even then, it doesn't matter how many 15A circuits the PDU has, the breaker is likely 30A. If you're pulling 20A from the dryer you won't be able to draw 15A from the rig, regardless of what the PDU says. Dryer circuits are wired to supply a dryer and that's it. They're not really intended to be shared.

So the dryer is going to use more than 15 amps? Cause that's what one type of these PDUs will deliver.


I didn't know that.


See 1.


True true.


Me thinks perhaps I should.


I'll blame early mornings for now and return to a topic I know more about.

Stu

1) Outlets of a PDU have insufficient wattage to run a dryer.  
2) US dryers require both 120V & 240V which no PDU outlet supplies
3) Plugging dryer into a PDU (even if possible) doesn't eliminate the issue of unsufficient wattage on the circuit
4) There is no need to change the PSU as virtually all PSU work on 100V to 250V.
5) Changing voltage doesn't change the wattage.  100W on 110V is 100W or 240V or 208V or 220V.

Or you could just read the thread.


Like I said you managed to get every single thing wrong which is kinda amazing.

How so?

Magically there was absolutely nothing correct about that post.

To the OP, if you've got a 220V outlet you can look at some datacenter level distribution boards (like the APC 0U PDU system) retailed in countries where 220-240 is native (ie. Australia). That'd get you multiple outlets, hang your dryer off one of them, retrofit your computer PSU with a bunch of Australian ones and the chances are you'll be able to run your rig and the dryer fairly easily (remembering that 110V 100W's is gonna be like 50W for 220V).

Just my 2c, good luck!

Stu

Correct.  The device saves the power company money, not you.  Because some meters show the savings, demonstrations are shown using those meters to convince people to buy.   

http://www.nist.gov/pml/div684/power_121509.cfm

There is only one SLIGHT grain of truth to them.... they may make very old motors slightly more efficient and run cooler.  But if your fridge or AC was built in the last 20 years it is probably not one of them. 

What are you talking about? I installed one of these in my car along with a 200MPG carb and a rare-earth magnet super-generator, and now I can drive anywhere I want without using gas AND power my rig at the same time. they're great.


*Available to anecdotal endorsements.

Please tell me you are kidding.  Whole house PFC are snake oil in a box.  Completely worthless.

Low power power factor increases phantom load observed by power company (and their cost) but power meters measure watts not volt amps so low powerfactor has no cost to residential users.  High demand industrial consumers are penalized for having a poor PF but residences are not.  PF isn't even calculated for residential users.  If you wanted to you could intentionally reduce your PF to stick it to the power company (same amount of work at same amount of cost to you and higher cost to power company).

All this talk about capacitive loads, current draw and the like really has me glad that I use a PFC on my house.   

Depends on the insurance.

I'll take my chances .  Most likely shit won't happen . 

Lotto tickets are a better deal then insurance

Or get it flooded, or hit by lighting, or blown away by a tornado, or rammed by a stray car, or whatever. Shit happens.

Ahh so I only need it if I'm going to burn my house down.  Gotcha.

it's a way to burn your house down and get out of the upside-down mortgage.

then your will either get a newer bigger house, or move to a government subsidized boarding facility.

I thought about doing the exact same thing for a while. The issue I had was finding an affordable outlet, wiring, power strip / pdu, etc... I gave up on that and was planning on running a 30amp line down into my garage as I could get some of the parts from work for free. While I was working on planning out how to run the new line I ended up finding that someone had previously chained a second line off of my 240v 20amp air conditioner breaker and decided to use that.

I bought a dual 6-20 outlet and two universal 240v power strips for less than $100. This setup can hold over 4000 continuous watts of electricity. With my current estimated 2.222 KW setup I could of run it off of a single power strip, but wanted to have the second one for expansion purposes. If I was you I'd price out what it would cost to run an extra line and run more of a standard house (6-15 / 20) outlet. If you're main breaker can take the extra amps you could probably run a 50 amp breaker and wire it into five 10 amp outlets using a MWBC. With that you could use cheap 13 amp power strips and expand as you need it.

What the heck is this homeowners insurance you all keep talking about..

How about the electric range outlet ??
If you don't have an electric stove

If you have electric stove and electric drier just punt another breaker in the box and a new properly sized line for mining...   no hassle or worry leaching power to mners  if wifey uses the appliances

and btw check you home owners insurance   diy electrical work may not be covered
If not done by a licensed electrician and/or inspected if there is a fire

Pipe the hot air into your central air. Heats the whole house, and take the place of a humidifier. It's win win.

Never thought about that 
No, I was just kidding. We all kind of went overboard, a little.

Because moist air is a bad thing for PCs

Why don't you go one step further and convert the laundry room into a Sauna? Leave no watt wasted.

+1

You have are movement and heat from the miners, you just need to exhaust the moist air. 

if you have 7000watts of hashing power down there do you really need a dryer.. hang a few lines

I lived in a trailer(single wide) & used 2 grill propane tanks for my hot water heater,stove & dryer,they would last about 2 weeks.Just need a regulator,"y" fitting made for using 2 tanks(with a pressure switch to alternate between tanks) & whatever length of hose between tanks & "t" fittings to the appliances.Got it all at the local grill store,except the longer hoses,got those at a gas supply house.I think it all cost about $250,including 4 tanks

It was great not having to wait on the gas company to "fit" me in their route.Had 2 tanks as spares,so just had to rotate them when almost empty,never had to relight the pilots either.Just check for leaks with soapy water.

I'm just looking out for yochdog's eyebrows......

What, you normally leave the gas whooshing out all the time waiting for a spark?

Those things have pilot lights for a reason, although newer ones will probably light on demand with a high voltage starter.

Probably cheaper to just keep the dryer and run a new dedicated 240V line and outlet.

Until you spark the gas with your miners. I have noticed that plugging things into 208v seems to always give a little spark on initial contact.

this is what I am thinking now....

Run it yourself

What would be the metric for judging efficiency of a dryer, I wonder? Would you take say 10kg of water as the baseline, and calculate the energy used to dry clothes wetted with 10kg of room temperature water vs the enthalpy of vaporization of the same amount of water?

Also, the gas dryer is a great idea if you already have a gas line in your house. It would be much less costly to run than an electric dryer, plus it would free up your 240V plug. Just remember to be sitting when the gas fitter gives you the quote to run a line.

How about getting a gas dryer??? The outlet & all its glory will be yours

I doubt the DRYER is all that insanely efficient.  It is your washer that is probably energy savings (through less water use) but the electric dryer has not progressed much in the USA other then looks. The driving motor does not use much power, it is mostly the heating element   


I doubt you have more then 50%  spare power from that outlet with the dryer on, probably much less.

LOL.  For the win. 

Great pics D/T .If he has very new dryer it should have the 4 prong 220 outlet,NEMA 14-30,unless the whip was changed to connect to the old 3 prong outlet,NEMA 10-30.Your main concern is wire gauge.I don't know how many watts your planning on hooking up to this circuit with a dryer too,personally I wouldn't recommend it.

I install A/C units for a living,my main concern is wire gauge.On a 5 ton Air Handler with a 10kw electric heat option,6 gauge wire is preferred,8 gauge will work(not recommended by code).Thats for a 60 amp circuit,usually draws 48-52 amps max(even on start up,elements are seperated into 4 sections & come on incrementaly,blower only draws 4-5 amp on start up & comes on first).

Mr Teal's recommendation of a dedicated circuit is worth following  

Tell her the outlet is yours now then direct all the heat from the gpus thru ducting to a drying rack.  Hang the clothes on the rack, sell the dryer.

Sorry, my German is non-existent and google isn't helping. Where on there does it say it draws 1150W?
Also, 2 hours is a really long drying time.

For reference, I looked at Samsung's page, and a dryer like this one has a 5300W heating element. Most cycles might not run the element full out, but I wouldn't be shocked if current draw got close to 25A while it's heating on a fast dry cycle.

Well, about 2 hours with 1150W would be state of the art right now. At least for a german dryer.
But I suspect that his dryer is a lot bigger.

If it's an electric dryer, I would be shocked if it actually used 2kW. It would take forever to dry a load at that power. I would expect it to be double that. We'll have a better idea when he gives the model number, but expect it to be closer to 5kW than 2kW when it's on high.


Yochdog, is your dryer close by your panel? If you're reasonably handy, spend the $40 or whatever it is for a permit and install another 240V circuit yourself. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, you should have no problem finding an apprentice electrician doing a little extra work on the side who'd install the parts for you for $50. Even hiring someone might cost under $200 including all the parts, and it'd be done correctly.

Good point you likely are right.

Usually dryer outlets are 30A,  I don't think I've ever seen one that is 40A.

As rjk indicated it won't be to code but it can be done.

First option: wiring to allow simultaneous use (dryer & miner)
To do that you really need to get some exact measurements.
a) peak current at startup
b) current when running
c) voltage at outlet
d) verify breaker is 40A

You don't need to derate the non-continual load (dryer).  So if the dryer pulled 3KW peak you could put 230 * 40 = 9.2KW - 3KW = 6.2 KW of miners on the circuit.  It won't be to code though.  A 30A (derated to 24A) PDU would work fine.  How much you can use depends on the EXACT measurements.  

Don't even think about doing this if you don't want to take real measurements.  You must know the voltage and current at the outlet.  Trying to guestimate it is a good way to waste your time only to find out you don't have the wattage available that you think you do.  Maybe your "efficient" dryer might be efficient because it uses more heating coils and recirculates the air so it pulls more not less than another dryer.  If you don't want to measure then just stop now.

Second option: switch between dryer & miner.

You could install a manual transfer switch so that either the plug for the miners or the plug for the dryer is energized at one time.  The switch prevents both from being used simultaneously so you have no overcurrent issues.  You would also want to use a PDU to connect all the miners to a single outlet to simplify the wiring.  If the miners are set to start after AC loss you would simply turn the switch to "dryer" (miners lose power), use the dryer, then turn the switch to "miners", and the miners power on automatically, boot, and start mining.

You want to make sure the switch has higher rated voltage than the breaker and either load.  On edit: you indicated 40A but it may actually be 30A.

http://www.solar-electric.com/miso60amp240.html

Normally transfer switches are used to switch the source (i.e. utility or generator) but electricity doesn't care about direction.  The transfer switch would allow only one to be used at one time.

So currently:

With transfer switch

* dryer outlet is actually 120V/240V combined it may be either 3 or 4 wire (4 wire is newer/safer).  Miners would be connected to a NEMA L6-30R outlet (30A @ 240V only).

Now nothing you do will make this code compliant but if it were me I would feel better with the transfer switch.  No the possibility of pulling >40A through the circuit.

Third option:[/u]
Just run a new line to the utility room and install a dedicated outlet.

I will have to get that info tonight.....It is a Samsung, about a year old. 

If he's got a fancy front-loader that's a high efficiency model, it's actually pretty likely that it's running a brushless DC or PMAC motor. The nicer white goods have been moving in that direction for awhile, I don't think many new front loaders have been made with shaded pole motors.

What's the model of the dryer, yochdog?

Thanks!  The advice is appreciated!

There might be - but Code requires a dedicated circuit for a reason.

See if you can find the nameplate rating of the device, just to be sure of the wattage.
Most dryers use a capacitor-start motor that runs at a constant speed - such motors make all kind of nasty electrical anomalies when they start, not to mention a large additional power draw. The motor might take up to 400% of its rating during the few seconds that it is starting, and that would trip the breaker if you removed the additional overhead allowance that is already built into the circuit by running some rigs on it. Now obviously, the motor isn't the main load - the main load is the resistive heater inside, which switches on and off to maintain different temperatures.

If we assumed that a 40 amp 220v circuit could supply approximately 7KW of power (after derating), and if we assumed that the dryer was 2KW like you mentioned, you should also assume spikes of up to 3KW during the motor start phase for a few seconds. This leaves you with potentially 4KW of "spare" power. You might be able to open the power outlet and add some #8 wire to extend the branch circuit to another plug. However if you do this, you really need to get a PDU with its own circuit breakers built in, otherwise you risk fire from under-rated wiring. I wouldn't want to suggest more than 20 amps of 220v coming off of the PDU in this case, since it isn't dedicated.

Finally, if you do this, make sure you have absolutely top-shelf PSUs. Since they will be so electrically close to the nasty power spikes caused by the motor starting, they will be more susceptible to failure.

20 amps at 220v should allow you to run several rigs. Good luck, and don't let the inspector see it!

I have the insanely efficient stuff.....the dryer might use 1800 watts, 2000 at most. 

I believe the 220V is on a 40 AMP breaker, so shouldn't there be PLENTY of headroom for some miners? 

LOL, switch back and forth... Do you know how much power that dryer uses?  You might be able to run maybe 1 card with it running.

So I have this fantastic utility room with lots of space, great ventilation, and a big ole 220 volt outlet. 

I would like to set-up some miners in this room, but I want it to fit in seemlessly with my wife's lovely (and massive) front loading spaceship looking washer and dryer. 

Anyone have some experience splitting the power outlet so multiple appliances can be hooked up?  I really dont want to have to switch back and forth everytime we have to do laundry. 

It would be great to run the miners off of the same outlet without doing too much re-modelling!

Any advice would be great.