Topic: Using Blockchain to run economies (Read 423 times)

There are tons of island nations that turned into this as well because both it is cheap and it is also more secure this way as well. I think it was Bahamas who turned their national identity information into blockchain storage as well. That way, even if there is a whole natural disaster or something in the island, they would be able to keep it.

You could always outsource it to some database in some other nation but that would never be really truly safe, ALL of those places could burn at the same time, or maybe won't, who knows. But, when you do it blockchain way, we are talking about a small part of it in everyone's computer so even if just a single one survives, all of it survives at the same time, hell even if it doesn't, you could go back and start using it again from where you left it off. This is why it is so valuable to have it on blockchain, cheaper and safer.

the possibility of blockchain can be used for an economy that is regulated by individuals not large parties, and even then only real products not service providers, if used for service provision it will be difficult to regulate if one of the employees is not logged in and the system has recorded all

If that is the true that they do not need to wait long before using blockchain then why only a few countries have used blockchain? The reason is because it was still new to them and they need to study it first and understand if what is the side effects that they can get and not only focusing on the positive effects but congrats because your in a country where blockchain is being used already but how about its effects, did you feel the difference?

There are countries before that also use blockchain in farming. The first use of blockchain was from cryptos ( finance). We need more industries to join blockchain other than this two.

In order for states to introduce blockchain technology into various sectors of their economy, one does not have to wait long. Many states are already actively doing this. Including China, which banned the circulation of cryptocurrency.
In my country (Ukraine), the government has been implementing this technology for a long time. I know that accounting and use of agricultural land (land cadastre) is carried out using this technology. Blockchain technology in the world where the Internet is used, opens up very wide opportunities. After all, it can be successfully used where it is necessary to safely store online and have access of any third parties to large databases. And in our age, general and specific information is needed by everyone.

If more adoptions take place it's very possible that each sides of the economy can use blockchain technology, the  system is very fit for embracing this new system it will help a lot in terms of good system.

It won't as the knowledge about this industry is not that huge yet, but we will see more incoming years, looking forward to this success.

All this will happened as we are seeing interest coming from people all around the world, once it's been established expect more good news to come.

I actually do believe that the blockchain technology would not only used in the financial system of the world (the creation of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies), it will also be used in every single industry in a country such that the whole economy of a country would be based 9n the blockchain technology.
You should, however, know that this is not feasible now. It would be accomplished in the future but I don't see it happening anytime soon. There are quite a lot of measures that need to be put in place before this can be accomplished even in developed countries not to mention developing or underdeveloped countries in Africa and Asia

This illustration looks too good to become real especially as we have developing countries all over the world.

I completely agree with you Fiulpro! In most countries, people have no say, and ordinary people are struggling with all institutions for some rights... in 21st century most of us still need to visit 20 offices and collect a bunch of papers to finish something!
Blockchain can solve many problems, and not just that, it can make many operations a lot easier! We could just sit and finish everything from the computer or phone... without losing time, energy, money while going from one office to another... always short for one document!
I also think that governments are against Blockchain because they wouldn't be able to do the same they are doing now! Now they have control, they can hide/reveal things that suit them, but with Blockchain everything can be transparent, and they will not be able to hide what they don't like, or their illegal activities! It's why fight for the future is on all of us! People will have to choose one day, algorithm and crypto, or governments and bankers!

I think that both China and Russia want to dominate in terms of economy, it is necessary to emphasize that since the Second World War the hegemony of the dollar has not liked these countries, although China is now with its stablecoin the Digital Yuan, its only The option to dominate or remove the preference of the dollar worldwide is another much stronger currency and if it is based on technology much better.

The mere fact of being socialist states do not adapt to the world economic model, they want to establish their own economy with their own rules and that is very difficult, because they would have to overturn all economic standards and they have discovered that through Blockchain they can do it, I think that this is all about a war for control, if these two countries join together economically, they can give results that can give a world change considering that one of the biggest bubbles is the dollar.

Envy, it is as simple as that, there are many experiments that prove that the majority of people are incredibly envious, one of my favorites is that people were offered two outcomes, that they and their neighbor got a small raise on their salary of the same proportion, the second option was that they received a raise two times higher than the first option but their neighbor receives a raise two times what you are receiving on the second option, what did people choose? The first option, they preferred to earn less instead of earning more money just because they did not wanted to be left behind by their neighbor.

in addition to transactions, blockchain can help facilitate human work, which tends to be conventional. for example during elections, blockchain can actually speed up vote counting even though there are many voters and have a large area, moreover transparency can be done wisely

yeah, actually, this life can flow calmly without blockchain, i mean in the economy industry. like, people try to do, create something new to make easy user, and make profit for worker. and as time go by, crypto known little by little, and sure they will try to combine existed technology with the new one.

There have been many improvements in the world using blockchain technology. The human transaction system is becoming easier and the data delivery system is much easier the country's economy has improved a lot blockchain technology that aims at decentralization as a security measure these are distributed and shared databases and records are recorded with the effectiveness of creating a global index for all transactions generated in a given market. It works like a logic book only in public destiny and universal ways which creates sensation and trust in direct communication between the two parties without third party mediation.

We thought this scenario is easily solved by the blockchain. I know you proposed a good purpose by tell these ideas but there are always an unexpected glitch delivering these informations. For example, interrupted internet, wrong infos and data.
 
 Lets always think of the possible things that may affect the efficacy of this idea. However, it can be a big help to use such blockchain for convenience and easy way living.

Using blockchain to run economics will work out for countries where the Government is heavily Corrupt and at the same time the people have no say in the whole matter which makes the whole thing even more difficult to handle.... What blockchain can do is:
They can make the whole economy transparent. All the transactions from the politicians can be checked by anyone and that would be the beauty of the whole thing ! Can you do that with banks ?? Do you even know how much money these politicians hold at their houses ? It's actually an adverse situation. At the same time the simplicity is also a plus point, once given a little support they can be integrated in things like banks, Schools , practically anywhere they need file keeping.
I do think the reason why Government and the politicians are so against blockchain is because they are actually scared of the transparency that would come with it.

I like the idea of using blockchain, it’s going to be cool, but what the second comment stated is a fact, we will need to have a centralized body that will manage that, and by having a centralized body, it’s going to require that people verify their identities which is probably not going to sit well with a lot of people who would want to keep their identity private.

And since blockchain is an open space your information will be exposed to an extent so that anybody doing business with you will know who you are and how to trace you if there is an issue. Now that’s going to be the disadvantage for some people, but it will still have to be done in a case like this, because if it’s not, then a lot of people will be getting scammed everyday.

My experience of government is really bad so I don't really trust them improving their system to a new level, government websites in my country don't work all the time and the site isn't even aesthetically pleasing. Maybe highly developed countries can adopt but I won't believe that my country will.

There are so many intermediaries to reap the benefits, they pocket.  These situations are always present in the contemporary economy.  Where the rich can underwrite relationships, the poor cannot.  This has been condemned in practice.  The citizens want to do those things themselves.  We will not need intermediaries, clarity to be displayed, blockchain is too viable until the government accepts change.  The point is that just fine-tuning the ease of use, the training classes will not take long to change the enormous benefits of the new economy.

Just when man realizes that governments do not help him to find the solution to his problems. He decided to search for it and find a way, although it has not been easy, it was the best solution he found and luckily it worked.

Now he does not trust centralization and fights for the new era of decentralization. Just as globalization arose, decentralization is fulfilling its mission anywhere in the world, thanks to the invention of Bitcoin.

How effective is it going to be? Do we really need this? Is it because you want to make the system you are talking about decentralized? If so, why? A huge computational power would be needed in this case. Just because "blockchain" exists doesn't mean we should be using it everywhere. Like others pointed out, there are many flaws over here. I doubt decentralization is going to be the best thing for use cases like this. Wanted to know one thing, what makes you think getting rid of government is going to fix everything in the world?

Admit it or not, some of those points you raised can be exploited unless a centralized solution safeguards it. Anarchy, on paper and simulations, achieve harmony in a perfect society since no one really cares what the other is doing, all the while maintaining relative peace and opportunity to those who can do the work for other people in exchange of money. However, reality says so otherwise, and Man is so fueled by greed that they will make sure that they always get the longer end of the stick. Gaming the system helps achieve it, and a central authority enforcing policies and overseeing the system sometimes is needed.

Perhaps we can integrate blockchains on one certain front of the economy. But being too dependent on decentralized systems and integrating it on a society that has been under the wing of centralization for millennia may just bring about some unwanted problems. Anarcho-capitalism is good on paper, and I believe that it can happen. The question is, can our society handle the changes?

How if they cannot make their fiat system run ang save their economy then how does bitcoin can save it? Users will possibly cannot give a tax due to anonymity so this kind of thoughts is pretty much impossible for now, Maybe if the government can find a solution on how can automatically get some taxes to the users wallets maybe this possibilities might really happen. But for now there's so many things needed to fix in the system before we can see this became reality, but I don't want this to happen in future.

Actually we need more support to do that. Blockchain isn't able to stay in path of long run without proper guidelines. Blockchain technology can help to improve the economic condition but beside it, government should adopt it. Without proper necessary steps, we won't be able to prosper our economic condition.

It will be problematic for blockchain to manage the economy because there are a lot of tangents in economy that blockchain has to cover and what is the point of using blockchain as a device to monitor economy, the current tech works perfectly even though a lot of supply chain is tangled.

As blockchain technology becomes decentralized many sequential tasks come together for example using this technology stock market transactions can be done simultaneously or land registration records can be made much more accessible to the public. Currently this project is useful in ensuring all online health services starting from biometric technology in citizen health facilities a central online administrative system has also been created for timely software and after all the country is improving with the blockchain technology economy and the transaction system is becoming easier.

I don't consider this a too bad idea, although I see some difficulties. The concept reminds me of Daniel Suárez's novels "Daemon" and "Freedom" And also of some anarchist software experiments.


I'm interested in "smart property" systems which would allow everybody to "pre-sell" goods or services issuing a singleton (NFT-like) token for it. This comes already pretty close to your idea, although it still uses a currency. The big problem is obviously scalability, but there is OmniBOLT, which would allow this kind of application perhaps even on the Bitcoin blockchain using the Lightning Network.

One big issue however is trust. But there could be trusted organizations "known by name" reviewing each token issuer. The question is then obviously - why wouldn't they run a centralized network instead? However, a blockchain could offer advantages, like common standards for several of these trusted entities, and generally a higher trust level and even maybe lesser costs because the service providers would also run nodes on the blockchain.

I guess these "matching algorithms" would be something like currencies, only perhaps with more complex rules. If you have a smart property system with non-fungible tokens that represent goods, you could specify in each of them the rules to be followed, and the most popular would win. However you would need a base currency for the blockchain, at least for mining or validation - because on a "coinless blockchain" I don't see a way how it could be achieved to create incentives for honest validations, to stop 51% attacks. Bitcoin would be obviously a good choice.

Yeah, this is almost textually what Daniel Suárez's novels are about

PS: I wonder if we can start a serious discussion here or it becomes simply another spam megathread

Blockchain is just a tool and by itself will not eliminate corruption. Corruption is immortal and with due diligence, officials will still find ways to increase their wealth in ways that are not entirely legal. The same can be said about politics and government structures. As you know, the blockchain technology itself provides for decentralization, but this decentralization may well be concentrated in a single state hands in the form of servers where the blockchain is stored. There are also nuances about the technical implementation, which can also be done in a favorable direction for the state, because such a concept as state interests has not yet been canceled.

The adoption of blockchain technology may be one of the project development done by some countries and also companies or institutions. however how it works and what's for they are will depend on the mechanism and also techniques of the technology itself. Sometimes, technologies may be available to be adopted and implemented in such condition, however, implementing a new technology adoption is not as easy as we think. There should be certain research and consideration including how ready we are expecting for the new technology. If they are already, it will run very well to ease the activity ad also another goal.s However, if it is not ready at all, it may result decreased.

If Blockchain is used to manage the economies it would be ideal and fair, but obviously blockchain would expose any act of corruption, for politicians it would not be convenient for banks, much less for economists who manage budgets that are given by governments, in this order of ideas would eliminate corruption, and that is not convenient for governments.

If you can automate the processes with Blockchain, in fact some countries like Spain are doing it, Russia began by testing its voting system, but they have managed to make mistakes, from the beginning all the audits must be done to correct the relevant programming. However, the corrections are evident in each process, and blockchain must check that there are no side chains for them to manage or make changes from other sites that are not the appropriate ones.

Think of it this way, would this be good? It would be, would this be working for governments and politicians? It wouldn't be. Why? Because if you give freedom and decentralization towards the people, that would mean getting power from politicians and giving it to people.

This is why I do not think that politicians would allow something like this to happen. I do believe that world will get better and better in the future, but that doesn't mean that politicians would allow something like this without a battle first, they will try everything in their power to keep people away from profit and that is why I believe it is not going to be that simple, it is going to take a while for this to happen. Eventually there will be a day when blockchain is used for everything, or maybe who knows something better will come up, but until then we are stuck with the current system.

Op,what you are using as an example can be solved by the market economy.There are apps like Uder or Doordash,that use ordinary people to transport goods and those apps connect consumers with restaurants.
There's no need for blockchain technology to solve the problem you are using as an example.
Blockchain technology can provide more transparency and decentralization,but only in the industries,where such features are needed.

I am afraid that this is mostly wishful thinking. The "anarcho communism" is pretty much the opposite of what most crypto intend to create and in fact far from what they can actually generate. The end result looks much more like a cypherpunk libertarian capitalist society. What is yours is yours and you can freely trade with others... does not look much like communism does it?

Precisely.

People seem to think that blockchain has to be connotated with currencies - but that is far from the truth.

Blockchain's immutability and instantaneous settlements is arguably far more significant compared to the very specific usage case of cryptocurrencies alone. When smart contracts are deployed on blockchain ledgers on a massive scale across the economy, they have the real potential to make things a heck of a lot more streamlined and efficient.

Economists should embrace blockchain, not try and oppose it.

That looks like an interesting idea, but why would there be a need for blockchain to run this algorithm? I think a simple app would do, and much more people would join in, because almost everyone around the globe is app-friendly, while blockchain networks aren't something that people are familiar with. This fact heavily decreases the probability of people finding each other and the number of the appropriate matches may turn out quite scarce.

Transparency is a big issue of every government and imagine if they use blockchain technology, it can expose many unnecessary transactions and that’s why it is being prevented on many countries. Yes, blockchain can help the economy but I don’t think government will totally use it.

Well, in some private companies like manufacturing, using blockchain can be a big help, I’ve read a news with regards to this one and I think private companies are slowly adopting blockchain.

Blockchain is way broad than what we expect but don’t ever think to see blockchain works on your daily basis like serving foods to you or to give options like that, that’s not how simple it is. Blockchain can’t be accepted by the government because it gives transparency and we all know corrupt officials wont allow that to happen. If blockchain will be totally adopted then it will still be regulated for the benefits of the government of course.

There are many projects on blockchain. Blockchain is a technology that can give very good results when used correctly. The most important thing here is that we understand blockchain correctly and use it in the right projects.

I do not know what is the relationship of communism with blockchain and fishing, but let's say that the current form of Blockchain based on POW or POS is what enabled the decentralization.
Do we need decentralization to be the primary form of funds or to hedge against some central system problems? Centralized systems are effective in reaching as many people as possible, but they make those who believe in money poor.
Some countries have succeeded in the problem of financing with central solutions and by using the simplest applications on old phones and SMS. So the problem of funding is not decentralization.

Blockchain could be used in a way to connect people, however it is a more of a software to allow p2p to work better for security and that is best at finance, of course it can be used in other areas, look at how great it is going for NFT which is still related to finance but it is NFT so it is basically paintings sold on auction type of deal.

So, it is possible to build more things using blockchain if you want to, it is possible and if you think people will benefit from it and people will use that's possible, you can build it, and if people do end up using it that means it will work and it will be great. However, how many people will download something that will allow them to connect with people and tell what they will do that day? You have to convince so many people to download and do that, which will be a hassle and it wouldn't really work for free, which people prefer.

If the economy runs on blockchain, it has more possibility of being decentralised than for centralised because blockchain isn't controlled by anybody. The economy will be on a free market atmosphere since maybe the government will have little to do about it. The banking sector will be more prudent because of financial security that blockchain will broadcast, this can reduce fraud.

blockchains best case usage. is where each transaction has a multiple use purpose.

imagine it like you go to a car dealership and you order a new car. the colour and seat type. and you pay.
that transaction is on the blockchain.

the car factory sees the blockchain that dealership requested Xcar. and also the blockchain becomes the vehicle registration and reference for maintenance and warranties and also tracking for the 'autopilot' to set the destination delivery from factory to dealership

if its just used for one use cola bottle purposes. then the blockchain would need to prune the data after the natural expiry date of the bottle
EG batch 127e34543 expiry june 24th 2022...
that block just gets deleted on june 25th 2022

Managing the economy with blockchain will make everything transparent, which saves administrators a lot of time and money. It can be said that blockchain will help human development faster a few decades or a hundred years if blockchain is applied to governance on a worldwide scale.
The application of blockchain is also a minus point because countries need some tricks to guide their country's economy. Therefore, blockchain can only be applied in some economic stages.
The adoption of blockchain will also make some industries disappear such as accounting, auditing, data storage staff ... The question is, where are we going to take those who have expertise with those jobs.

This would only work if this would be controlled by someone, meaning it should be centralized, and meaning if it is centralized, it could be manipulated, corrupted, and other bad things that they do inside the Government. Economics being manage by the Blockchain is indeed revolutionary, however, the downside effect of it is too risky, having decentralized technology is our only hope to manage our own money away from corrupt politicians.

The world might end up in either centralization or decentralization. And I even see that the world will have both of the elements.

Blockchain is good but in order to reach that level, lots of expansion are required. Besides, IoT can do this better than the blockchain. Blockchain in fact is only suitable for decentralization. If one day IoT can cooperate with blockchain techs, our world will definitely become a better place

I wish that it is simple like how you explained it but in reality the fisherman will be factoring in the price, supply, and demand for its fish as well as the biker who will deliver the goods other than that they also need to consider the competition for the same resource without someone enforcing or overseeing this kind of application towards the blockchain I don't think that it will be an effective solution for the economy as there is a lot of holes to be covered before it can be fully operational.

Not a good idea to allow a system based on anarchy to make decisions like that. I prefer this to happen on satoshi-type Blockchain, with good rules/principles plus reputations. Every decision on the chain has to be guided by the rules and the system has to be transparent and open to public.

I think the anarchy  method could be tried in places like hell by the developers. It's the kind of thing lazy minds develop... Reminds me of game theory or something like that.

The idea of implementing blockchain can be applied to bank accounting management systems and conventional payments. but not all can easily run systems that are accustomed to using financial records and are forced to switch to using the blockchain system. indeed the solution to knowing every type of payment transaction. but will the party accept gracefully if all blockchain use will solve transaction bottlenecks? all need to coordinate to make decisions.

Anyway, like the enquiries raised above. It all running into every involved agent doing their jobs because at one point, there will be an agent that is required to compute and send data or report to blockchain especially as that point may require manual. So that interface between agent and blockchain may be the challenge. Or where figures, data or information entered are not correct where blockchain may not reject or edit computed information. Running economy with blockchain maybe be very secured because of safeguard of files and data stored and accessible because of it is decentralised and that will help in transparency and accountability.

There have been many social experiments over the last 50 years to achieve anarcho communism. All of them failed. An equal distribution model never works. Some work harder or contribute more than others and always want to be paid what they're worth. Rather than be paid equal to someone who contributed less.

Karl Marx's grave site is funded and maintained utilizing a capitalist format.

Formerly anti capitalist states like china and russia embraced free markets decades ago as the only path to them being competitive in global markets.

The socialist communist dream continues to be pushed. The question is why. What is the motive behind it.

...

I like the idea of coordinating software matching travel routes, cargo and destinations. But don't see what anarchism or communism has to do with it.

Using blockchain to operate the economy is the application of blockchain to several economic sectors to operate, monitor, cut costs, and reduce human resources in stages. Examples include bringing blockchain into the fields of accounting, auditing, people management, machine management, and supply chain management.
Economic management is not only 1 + 1 = 2 but it is also an art. So bringing blockchain to run the economy isn't really good. If it's artificial intelligence, I can look at this.

This suggestions needed a long time study since changing the current system will confuse the people who's not familiar in tech world, although it will really play a big role but still I don't think its best time to implement this since I know government are so skeptical to use it for now due to some reasons. For now let them recognize how beautiful the system is since if they find it good maybe we can see it running on the systems.

If I buy something online, the shop can also take my money and not deliver. Successful shops deliver because it's more profitable long term. So the same problem exists today.

You could have ways to rate people and products, like you have trustpilot now.


On another note. The computer would asks users if they are interested in voluntarily contacting people that have done a transaction and see if things went correctly.

There is a problem with this that currently needs resolving through centralised solutions imo.

First, what if you pay a driver and they don't turn up? Who audits your review and makes sure you're not just tainting their name?

Otherwise, what stops you from getting continuous free lifts by claiming your funds back.

Even an escrow, unless centralised, may be bribabale.

You tell the blockchain what you want and what you have to offer. Volunteers will tell blockchain where the resources are.

So say in Africa a man submits he would like to fish all day. Another man wants to ride his bike. Another family wants to eat fish for dinner. The computer links up all three, so that the extra fish the first man caught, will be driven by bike to the family.

You could have different matching algorithms that are competing just like crypto currencies today.

After time the computer would play a bigger and bigger role, until decentralized anarcho communism could be achieved. Maybe after fighting off the governments first.