Topic: USPS DOES NOT INSURE BULLION! (Read 10814 times)

I ship to the US by dropping off registered mail IN the US, though I ship mostly coins with numismatic value , they are insured, legally, under their own (USPS) guidelines.

Registered mail , no problem, insurance is good and I've made claims against USPS for a lost registered shipment of a two tubes of silver rounds. They paid. Wasn't a fast process, but they didn't ask any pointless questions, just coughed up the dough after matching it up. That the contents were two tubes of silver coins in .999 fine was never an issue, at all.

Fedex will insure shipments of bullion but it has to be negotiated into your shipment price schedule on an individual business basis. For the period of 2006-2010 I had my own agreement because I was shipping a lot of bullion. When I backed off that business I didn't renew the agreement because I didn't have the required volume. However I notice a BIG Canadian bullion dealer doing the same thing with Fedex I did. Fully insured, must be hand delivered and signed for, bug stickers warning employees they must get a sig etc...

That's my personal experience, I don't care what other people do however.

At this point, with the OP continually advising to use Fedex when Fedex itself specifically excludes bullion, it becomes more and more likely OP is a Fedex employee looking for bullion to steal.

Once again (and hopefully for the last time) this is 100% INCORRECT.

USPS does insure bullion .... BUT ONLY IF SENT BY REGISTERED MAIL.

USPS "normal" (i.e. not registered) mail - Bullion NOT covered (well technically it is to a max of $15).
USPS registered mail - Bullion insured up to the declared value or a max of $25,000
FedEx - Bullion NOT covered.*
UPS - Bullion NOT covered.*

http://faq.usps.com/eCustomer/iq/usps/request.do?create=kb:USPSFAQ&view()=c%5Bc_usps04233%5D&varset(source)=sourceType:embedded#Can

Then again you are right insurance is usually not worth it.  Properly packaged the loss rate in mail is very low, much lower than the insurance premium.  Then again if someone is shipping say $20K they may not be able to afford a single $20K loss even knowing the odds are in their favor.  For most purchases (single gold coin, or a tube of silver coins) it usually doesn't make sense to insure it.


*Note both FedEx and UPS offer a special precious metals insurance programs which is only available to registered and bonded companies dealing with precious metals (mints, dealers, coin shops, auction houses, etc).  The average consumer can't purchase this coverage at any time or for any price so for all intents and purposes of this thread they aren't covered.  The standard FedEx and UPS insurance policies specifically (by name) exclude bullion.  Period.  They will not cover it.

It is true that USPS does not cover bullion, they will however happily sell you insurance for bullion that they know you can never use. There is some confusion because they do cover items of numismatic value such as a rare coin, it does not apply to common bullion.

My strategy is to self-insure. Calculate what you would pay for insurance and instead of buying it put the money in an account. In the event of a lost package you take the money from that fund. You will end up putting more money in that you take out. This is because insurance companies set their rates to make sure more money goes in than goes out.

You can use UPS or FEDEX, but I hate dealing with the way they handle international clearance.

Another option is to use USPS with tracking number and buy insurance from a private provider like shipsurance.

APMEX is insured by Llyod's of London.

On this link: HERE


agreed

Request to move thread to off-topic.

If you've posted this so called "proof" on other forums over and over, go back to the forums, spend 5 seconds searching on your username and "bullion" and repost it.

Otherwise, we heard you the first time, and are unconvinced, no matter how many times you repeat yourself IN ALL CAPS.

so you're going to make a claim, but when it comes time to prove it, you simply walk away and say it's true, because you remembered it to be true, all the while ignoring evidence that other forum members provided? i wonder how much education you had.

"I am no longer offering a reward." HAHAHHAHA. Just admit you're wrong, its no big deal. This stupid argument had me so confused. At first I was like "ok, I'll always use UPS when I ship bullion, then I settled for Registered Mail, then I didn't know what to do! I'll go USPS Registered Mail. Sending things like bullion is why such a service exists. Support USPS too-they're not doing too well financially and they were one of the first US government institutions (founded by Ben Franklin). That, and they are an institution which exists to SERVE the people. They have my business everyday, whether I'm mailing a letter or
$1,000,000 in Gold Bullion (via Registered Mail lol).

At one point, I was so interested in this that I actually offered a reward to anyone that had insured bullion with the USPS and whose bullion was lost. If the USPS paid for the insured lost bullion, I offered a reward. No one ever claimed the reward. There was one guy who popped up and said that he had been paid by the USPS for lost insured bullion, but on further inspection he recanted because the bullion was eventually found and so the USPS didn't pay.  He said that he expected to be paid and the USPS was going to pay, but they found his bullion instead. Anyway there was no proof of anything, it was all talk on his part. No one ever came forward who had been paid by the USPS for insured lost bullion and who had proof. This was on a forum dedicated to buying, selling, & trading bullion by shipping it. On the other hand, there were lots of people who'd lost USPS shipped bullion and never got jack.

I am no longer offering a reward.  However if you hear of anyone who has been paid by the USPS for insured lost bullion, I'd like to hear about it.

I'm not calling you a liar, misinformed and suborn is a better description. And by me, I mean USPS is. I don't feel it necessary to link to USPS terms again.
There's nothing wrong with spreading a little FUD, but misinforming everyone, and then continuing to stand by your misinformation after a reliable source specifically saying that the info is wrong is a bit whack.

And looking into it more, it actually seems as Coinabul said, Fedex doesn't insure Bullion. http://www.fedex.com/us/service-guide/terms/express-ground/

"Prohibited Items

    You are prohibited from tendering the following items for shipment, and they will not be accepted:

        Cash and currency.
        Live animals, except as provided in the Live Animals and Ornamental Marine Life (Including Live Fish) section. (Edible seafood, such as live lobsters, crabs or other types of fish and shellfish for human consumption, is acceptable, provided the shipper is in compliance with all local, state and federal laws.)
        Animal carcasses. (Animal heads and other parts for taxidermy may be accepted but must be properly packaged. This restriction does not apply to properly packaged meat or poultry products intended for human consumption.)
        Human corpses, human body parts, human embryos, or cremated or disinterred human remains.
        Shipments that require us to obtain a local, state or federal license for their transportation.
        Shipments that may cause damage or delay to equipment, personnel or other shipments.
        Lottery tickets and gambling devices where prohibited by law.
        Hazardous waste, including, but not limited to, used hypodermic needles or syringes, or other medical waste.
        Packages that are wet, leaking or emit an odor of any kind.
        Live insects.
        Shipments or commodities that are prohibited by applicable local, state or federal law.
        Waste or garbage for disposal.

    Notwithstanding any other provision of the FedEx Service Guide, we are not liable for delay of, loss of or damage to a shipment of any prohibited item. The shipper agrees to indemnify FedEx for any and all costs, fees and expenses FedEx incurs as a result of the shipper's violation of any local, state or federal laws or regulations or from tendering any prohibited item for shipment."

Look Spitoon, insure your bullion with the USPS. Fine with me, and go ahead and call me a liar. Just don't ask me what I think of your Litecoin silver scheme.

I'm confused, I thought we established that USPS does insure bullion? Feel free to use Fedex I guess, you are free to your personal opinion, but saying that USPS doesn't insure Bullion is a lie.

- Direct from the USPS website where they say they do insure Bullion

and I believe your response was


As your acknowledgement that they do insure bullion, but you don't think its a good idea.

Look, it's all good until a package gets lost. It doesn't happen very often, but it does happen. I've heard this all before on forums dedicated to bullion. The "send it registered mail" thing always comes up. But- if it's lost, they won't pay. I've seen it happen. Because: THE USPS DOESN'T INSURE BULLION. Professional bullion dealers buy insurance plans from insurance companies. Small fries send USPS and cross their fingers. Me, I ship FedEx, and I've never had any problems. I used to ship USPS and nothing ever got lost, but there came a point when I heard too many USPS horror stories. The thing is, one lost package sent via USPS can really eat into your profit margin and/or bottom line.

Anyway, let's not forget that the USPS is The United States Government.
If you don't trust their fiat, how can you trust their post office? 

You can insure bullion.  Send it registered mail.  It is a no-brainer.  It's like a few bucks more than regular insured mail, like, I'm talking single digit dollars.  It does not have to be over $25000.  In fact that is more likely the maximum amount per shipment, if it were more you'd have to break it into individual shipments worth less.  I send larger Casascius Coin orders via registered mail all the time and prefer it.

FedEx as a policy doesn't ship currency.  How do I know?  MemoryDealers told me that FedEx actually returned packages declared as "bitcoins" because it was against their policy to ship... "they don't ship currency".

This is we have specialized insurance plans to make sure metals get to our customers safely.

Just my two cents

"Hey, I'm shipping 10 Oz of Silver bullion, I need this insured"
"Alright, we will insure that up to $345"
"Thanks"

I don't know, doesn't seem too stupid to me.

Anyone that walks into their local post office and says "Hey guys, I'm sending a bundle of cash and/or bullion here, did I wrap it OK?" probably doesn't have the highest IQ around, if you get my drift.

 

Sorry, Wikipedia isn't that reliable, lets go with this one

"Limit on money (cash) insurable through the mail

Money (currency / cash) that is sent through the mail can be insured with the following limits:

    Except for Registered Mail, the maximum indemnity for negotiable items (defined as instruments that can be converted to cash without resort to forgery), currency, or bullion, is $15.00
    For Registered Mail™, cash can be insured up to $25,000. For amounts over $25,000, the full value must be declared but the maximum insured value is $25,000

    When a claim is filed, money is replaced at the insured value as indicated above only:

        After evidence of value is shown (if the actual value was less than the insured amount, then only the actual value is paid)
            Important: If you are sending a significant amount of cash, you need to verify with your local office what is considered valid evidence of value before mailing the item. You should also verify that it is packaged securely enough to protect a high value item from being harmed during regular mail processing.
        After the claim process is complete

"
http://faq.usps.com/eCustomer/iq/usps/request.do?create=kb:USPSFAQ&view%28%29=c[c_usps04231]&varset%28source%29=sourceType:embedded

You got that from the USPS website? So now the USPS is telling us what FedEx does? Not likely.

"Sending gold bullion from one person to another requires a certain process. Since FedEx and UPS do not offer insurance or allow gold or jewelry, it is best to ship gold bullion via the US Postal Service. Keeping this in mind, sending and insuring a package of gold bullion through the mail is hardly any different than sending any other priority mail package. If the value of the gold is over $25,000, it will need to be send via Registered Mail."

Big players like APMEX buy their own insurance from insurance companies. Yeah sure they have a guy that takes stuff down to their local post office...   Besides your $20k is peanuts to APMEX. They let the janitor sweep that much off the shipping floor at closing time and put it in his pockets. lol

I would find the USPS web page where they say they don't insure bullion, but I've already done it plenty of times on other forums. It's buried on an obscure page somewhere and it's not easy to find. I should bookmark it, but I don't feel the need to prove the point another time. Like I said, go ahead and insure bullion with USPS. It's no skin off my nose!

Your link does make it seem like they insure bullion. However, it doesn't say "bullion". It says "gems, jewelry, and precious metals". Is it possible that they make a distinction between bullion and precious metal? I think what they mean here is jewelry. To determine the value of a piece of jewelry you would have to add the value of the gems to the value of the "precious metal" in the piece. This doesn't say bullion which is what I'm talking about. 

Well APMEX shipped me $20,000 in silver by ..... insured Registered mail. . Seeing as they are the world's largest precious metals dealer I think they AND the USPS regs hold more weight then your claim backed my nothing.  No cite, no reference, no expert opinion. 

If shipping by anything other than Registered Mail you would be correct.  That is why registered mail exists.

Go ahead and insure bullion with the USPS. No skin off my nose! 

You got to read the RIGHT print.  That is for express mail.  USPS doesn't insure gold, jewelry, cash, or other negotiable assets (even giftcards) unless shipped by REGISTERED MAIL.

Quoting the regs for Express mail to "debunk" a statement about Registered mail is well silly.

Per the same link:

AHEM. 

http://faq.usps.com/eCustomer/iq/usps/request.do?create=kb:USPSFAQ&view()=c%5Bc_usps04233%5D&varset(source)=sourceType:embedded#Can


You can repeat false statements as much as you want but it doesn't magically make it true.

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/609.htm

Section 4.1 o

Gotta read the fine print, and I agree with D&T sorry your wrong.[/s]

Quoted Express Mail...whoops...Close but no Cigar for me...

I repeat, USPS DOES NOT INSURE BULLION. Period.

They don't make a big deal about not insuring bullion. If you try to insure bullion, they will take your money. However if your bullion is lost, you are in for an unpleasant surprise.

I am not even going to try to find where on their website they say this, but it is there. You really have to dig but it's there. Your average Post Office employee doesn't know this. However in the event your bullion is lost and you are assigned an investigator, the investigator will know!

USPS will insure bullion, $100,000 bearer bonds, even bags of cash (yes literally USPS will insure a bag of cash being shipped) but ..... IT MUST BE SHIPPED REGISTERED MAIL.  This requires taking the item to the post office with package unsealed, and declaring contents, and USPS worker will seal it in your sight.  There will exist an unbroken chain of custody from every employee who has transfers ownership of the package (i.e. USPS knows exactly who to arrest when the item goes missing).

Insurance for loss or damage to insured, registered, or COD mail within the amount covered by the fee paid or within the indemnity limits for Express Mail as explained in 4.2 is payable for the following:

g. Fair market value of stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value, as determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors newsletters and trade papers.

o. Except for Registered Mail, the maximum indemnity for negotiable items (defined as instruments that can be converted to cash without resort to forgery), currency, or bullion, is $15.00.

If you are paying extra for insurance on bullion shipped via USPS, you are wasting your money. That's because the USPS DOES NOT INSURE BULLION. I have seen people advertise bullion on here and say that you can insure it, when it looks like they're shipping USPS. Experienced bullion traders know this. It's on the USPS website somewhere in the fine print.

To me, saying that you can "pay extra" for insurance on bullion shipped via USPS borders on scam. I am assuming that people advertising this simply aren't aware that the USPS doesn't insure bullion. If they are aware of that, it's simply a scam that lets them off the hook if the shipment is lost. They could say "You shoulda bought insurance!" Also traditionally if a shipment is lost in transit it is the seller's duty to make it right.

That's why I ship FedEx. Yes FedEx is more expensive but INSURANCE IS INCLUDED in the shipping price.

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