Topic: Vaccinations for the gullible start today in the UK (Read 256 times)

funny part is poker sounds like jetcash, both seem irrational and just say 'i said something rational' to hide how irrational their thoughts are

but lets really try to nail this one down

people in wuhan getting re infected. well numbers are early but yes it seems in some cases natural immunity may only last 3-6months.
but this is a broad answer.
those that have a low viral load are less likely to trigger a massive immune response and so getting minor symptom first time = more chance of getting it again sooner rather than later.

this is exactly why they looked at the antibody count of those in the 3phases of trials an compared the groups in different dosing regiments and found the ones with best antibody count are the double dosers
higher antibody count=more blueprints of lasting immunity=longer immunity


they can see that vaccines do trigger the immune response to create antibodies. and yes if you have good antibody count and you then get the virus inside your system your body is already armed and prepared for battle. rather than realising late that there is an invader and having to learn to fight.
however if some antivaxxer starts licking grocery store carts and you handle it. and then you pass it BYHAND to another antivaxxer. they can still get sick via your spread.
vaccines dont work on the outer skin. so keep washing your hands and changing your clothes.
there will never be 100% guarantee of no spread. because not everyone will have the vaccine and there are other ways to spread it
....
'they try to silence us'
the adverse reactions are transparent. they even have protocols to ask people having the jab if they have any allergies. they have protocols to ask people having the jab to sit for 15-30minutes after.
but when irrational people claim:
that pharma and healthcare are denying that people have reactions.(false)
that pharma/healthcare dont do anything to lessen the risk.(false)
that there is no liability..(false)
.. well thats not fact,. thats just irrational thought from the antivax group.
rational people would research and find the source info. and not seek the opinion blogs of antivax groups

there are  protocols, safety checks, quality assurance batch checks, medical checks. there are many things
for decades there has always been a method to seek compensation due to true vaccine injury.. not the cry baby 'ouchy my num num hurts for a day' i mean proper injury if it occurs there is a course of action.

looking at the statistics of the amount of people getting covid and month later the amount that die due to it
then looking at the stats of the amount of people getting a jab. and ANY TIME later the amount that die
vaccines are far far far far far safer than the disease they help to prevent.

so its been a month since the first 100k vaccine jabs.. so lets see if there is 1k deaths(1%*)
... oh wait there is not.rational thought: more people die due to covid than a vaccine

so its been a month since the first 100k vaccine jabs..so lets see if there is 10k severe hospitalisation(10%*)
.. oh wait there is not. rational thought:more people end up in hospital due to covid than a vaccine
*i lowballed the numbers to favour the denialists opinion

so lets look at the number of 'long covid' and lets see how many have any symptoms that last months with vaccine
heck more people die due to covid that have even mild issues for 2days with vaccine
..

so if you want a rational conversation..
include statistics. not opinions that can be traced back to antivaxxxers

the 'speedy development' is not due to rushing the trials. its actually by rushing the paperwork
take the stages of phase 1. testing on mice. usually thats 3 months of paperwork and getting the ok before even starting a phase1. (budget for lab/insurance broker negociations)
thats 6 months.. 3 for paperwork 3 for trial phase 1
..
then 3-6 months of validating the data post trial and then seeking new budgets/insurances/legal exceptions to start human trials
so already a year has passed before a single human has been injected.
then its 6-9 months waiting on phase 2 results because they want to look at people for 6-9 months
. then its another 3-6 months of paperwork before starting phase 3 mass human trial
and another 6-9month of the trial
then another 3 months to collate that data. and have a final report..

thats about 3 years.
however and not just in covids case.
instead of the paperwork of trying to get private insurer acceptance. they seeked government as their insurer. this meant they could start in days not months
they also monitor DURING the trial instead of waiting till the end. which shaves off a few months.
once the results are in they can begin the next phase within a month.
and monitor results DURING the trial.
they also can begin recruiting phase 3 participents within the phase 2 stage instead of months after.
again saving paperwork time

its not like they injected a mouse in october and a human in november and then got a licence to sell in december..

they have 6 months of human data and 9 months of mice data as of the december release
much the same as they would usually have. but without the paperwork delays of budgets and private insurance underwriters

they have not hidden anything. they have been clear from day one about risks to people with certain things. like allergies. they have guidelines and protocols. its not just a 'jab and hope' scenario

i know theres a silly opinion that there were no trials. no safety screening no ethics and no protocols. but thats lies from the antivax group

I've finally ignored franky1, like @Jet Cash, because I have answered him several times in a reasoned manner and not once has he responded to what I said. He seems to be only interested in delivering his sermons and not in actual discussion. Also, he seems to be chasing Jet Cash even though he knows he has him on ignore.

I am still very interested to hear about those of you who are pro-COVID vaccines what you think about what I have written in the previous paragraph and the sources I have cited. I have quoted those same sources in other messages on the forum and none of those who blindly believe in how good vaccines are have responded. But, yeah, those reputable sources don't appear in the mainstream media.

your limited nomad life of living in a van without friends and famiiy is the more probable reason you have yet to get a virus of severe viral load.
EG if you were
a doctor around patients 12 hours a day.
a retailer around strangers 8 hours a day
a teacher around many dozens of students for 6 hours a day
a bus driver with dozens of passengers for 9 hours a day
a carer around dozens of residents a day
.. many other examples
your risk level would be much higher

you lack of social contact has been your sheild. not your health

your lack of exploring the world beyond europe is reason you lack having caught any foreign things.
EG you need to have a social life and come into close contact with people to get a virus.

your main threats are not human carrying viruses. but food consumed viruses/bacteria.hense your fear of that fish last year that you left to rot overnight.

so you should thank your lifestyle for automatically being a socially distant lifestyle.

but refusing to go to doctors to find out how healthy your body is. does not mean you are healthy because you avoid the doctor.
i know many people that have aches and pains which are symptoms of something wrong, but avoid the doctor. this does not mean they are healthy. it means they are ignoring their issues
EG someone close to me in their 70's keeps repeating the same joke nearly daily. they occassionally forget names or where they left things they handled earlier. just because they didnt go to a doctor. doesnt mean they are not suffering from onset dementia/alzheimers.

avoiding a formal diagnoses does not cure the condition
avoiding treatment does not cure the condition
avoiding just makes you ignore your health decline.

oh and by the way. i know 100% that you have visited your doctor more than just 20 years ago
you recently admitted that they text message you about flu jab. well they didnt have a text service 20 years ago. so you must have contacted your GP and had your details updated more recently.
this is prompted by GP needing to get in contact with you after a visit. because i know other people that dont visit the GP and they dont get texts because they truly dont go to a gp.

so please stop pretending to be an antivaxxer that lives a herbal life. you have been outed as someone that does rely on the NHS when in need. and you have needed them recently

In a study about 10 million residents in Wuhan, China, published in Nature, only 0.3% were reinfected.

"Of the 34,424 participants with a history of COVID-19, 107 tested positive again, giving a repositive rate of 0.310%" [..] "Results of virus culturing and contract tracing found no evidence that repositive cases in recovered COVID-19 patients were infectious, which is consistent with evidence from other sources."

Source: Post-lockdown SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid screening in nearly ten million residents of Wuhan, China.

Reinfection doesn't seem so dangerous to me according to this source.


I am also disappointed to hear that science is supposed to have only one view. I am quite disappointed to hear that, if you have rational doubts about vaccines, even if you are a doctor, they try to silence you, they call you a denialist and a conspirator. In my case, I am not an anti-vaccines. I was vaccinated as a child. I recognize that vaccines have been a great advance in human history. But I have rational doubts about vaccines that are released too quickly and with which companies are making a lot of money. I also have reasonable doubt that they have been exempted from liability if there are long-term detrimental effects.

In a democracy with freedom of speech, people should be able to speak freely about these things without being censored.

Now let's what some antivax imbeciles say about vaccines.

The British Medical Journal: Will covid-19 vaccines save lives? Current trials aren’t designed to tell us.

"The world has bet the farm on vaccines as the solution to the pandemic, but the trials are not focused on answering the questions many might assume they are." [..] "But what will it mean exactly when a vaccine is declared “effective”? To the public this seems fairly obvious. “The primary goal of a covid-19 vaccine is to keep people from getting very sick and dying,”" [..] "“Ideally, you want an antiviral vaccine to do two things . . . first, reduce the likelihood you will get severely ill and go to the hospital, and two, prevent infection and therefore interrupt disease transmission.”7

Yet the current phase III trials are not actually set up to prove either"

At 78, and having survived 4 pandemics with nothing more than the odd sniffle, I think I'm unlikely to be a burden on the NHS. In fact I don't use the service of doctors or the health service unless I have an accidental injury, and that only happens about once in every 20 years.

The government is reporting that 12.4 million people have been infected by the virus. I think that is probably an underestimate. They push this as a disaster, but any sensible person will consider this to be good news. as it means that all those people have natural immunity without any side effects. This is a better result than even the most optimistic vaccine projections. Bearing this in mind, you have to wonder why anyone believes that we need inadequately test, crippling vaccines that steal valuable resources from the economy and the NHS.

I'd taken you for one of the more sensible people on the forum.  I'm disappointed to hear this.  "Gullible" people are those who are easily mislead.  Personally, I'm of the mindset that anyone who doubts science and would rather believe what antivax imbeciles are spouting are the gullible ones. 

Just try not to be too great a burden on public services when you get sick, please.

vitamin pills and supplements ..
the jars an labels and the purification into pill shape doesnt happen naturally or in the sky

unless you really are a homeless guy living near nettles and freeflowing streams.. you probably have more manufactured products than you realise

even your morrisons coffee has been through a lab to work out the purification process and the best ratio of caffeine
i know you want to beleive the myths that an old tribal leader sniffs the beans and decides which beans go to which cup. but the reality it is goes to a factory and they use science to mix the right blend before distributing to stores.

as do your omega 3 and vitamins and other stuff
remember jars and capsules do not grow on trees

If you are looking for guarantees, let me give you a few:

- If you do not start using a vaccine, old people will eventually get infected and die in a large percentage.
- If you do not do something to recover normality, I can give you full guarantee that young and elderly will die because the health systems will be unsustainable.

Decisions are easy when everything is clear, you do not need much wisdom to make those, yet most of the times life is about shades of grey.


Please, state here and now that you have never taken any medicine. Else, please drop it.

I'm going to have to stop entering into discussions about brexit and corona viruses. The government and msm misleading information  seems to be too deeply ingrained in the public opinion. The invent all sorts of new terms like "long Covid" to obscure the real problems. It's also time that they provided details of the testing processes including cycle counts, rather than just increasing factors to make things appear worse when they are improving in fact.

Bitcoin is on a tear at the moment, and I haven't built up a large enough holding because I spend too much time on trying to change the destructive health industry. I'm out of it, so I don't know why I bother. If you don't want to eat stinging nettles or drink water, then that is your choice. It is only important when your damaged health system causes the government to adopt policies that start to destroy the economy and savings and investments. I decided to opt out of all of it, and I am much happier and healthier as a result.  So carry on reinfecting yourselves with face mask, and stick needles into your arms to boost Bill Gates wealth.

So called  infections don't matter, as everybody will be exposed to the virus and its mutations. The real question is whether you will be able to cope with it, or whether the comorbidities that you have built up by supporting the Pharma scams will shorten your life, and reduce its quality.

This is the second time I have seen you say this and it is simply not true. COVID reinfection happens. Shingles is a reinfection or reactivation of varicella. Several strains of hepatitis, after recovering from the acute infection, can continue with chronic infection for life. I could go on.

Emphasis mine. Which is it? Either natural immunity is 100% successful, or you can be reinfected. Can't have both.

I don't disagree with all your points about people generally living healthier lifestyles, but your misinformation regarding vaccines and healthcare in general is outright dangerous.

Stop talking bollocks Frankly - it's no wonder I have you on ignore ( I read the quote)

What Pharma products do I promote, or suggest people should buy? Nettles, water and such like are provided by the supreme pharmacist in the sky.

re. vaccines. The best test results for vaccines are 80% or less, and side effects are predicted. Natural immunity has 100% success for healthy people with no side effects. Lets focus on getting people healthy, and not on creating an artificial immune system controlled by the eugenicists.

Of course pharmaceuticals are sold. Tax payers are forced to give money to the government, and the medical profession spends this to increase the profits of the whole health industry scam. Drugs are misprescribed and overprescribed, and damage the  heath of the public victims. All this to lock them onto a downward escalator into sickness and crippling disease.

Doctors should be prosecuted for misselling their carnage, and not lauded for it.

Even on the other thread which he detested the placement of hand sanitizers on certain markets. Yes in a sense hand sanitizers are a way affecting both good and bad bacteria but the main reason they were there was for us to avoid the infamous COVID 19. Weighing risk vs. benefit here I can say proudly that having a sanitizer in public or crowded places is really a must. Same with this new vaccine. Not all vaccines were to grant long life immunity but it doesn't mean they were just for sales because of its limited time of immunity. Even the professionals were mocked here which is kind of depressing.

firstly the news was 'first woman outside of the clinical trials'
secondly the announcement was yesterday
thirdly the vaccine does not replicate thus is not infectious.
fourthly UK hospitals dont 'sell pharmaceuticals'. there is no income/insurance membership validation process at admissions and there is no bills after discharge.

and lastly the vaccine is not a anti inflammatory medication. thus not 'suppressing symptoms'

seriously will you please up your game and try researching
by the way. YOU, badecker and a couple other 'anti pharma' type of people are the only ones i see in this forum trying to advertise products that people should buy to increase their health.

One announcement today is that a 90 year old woman is the first recorded person to be given the Oxford vaccine - I thought they said that it had been tested, so I'm not sure how she can be the first. Leaving that aside, She is probably receiving medication, and I hope she has managed to retain sufficient immunity to recover from being injected with an infectious disease.

I think it is sad that her trust in the medical profession is probably based on her experiences when doctors were respected vocational professionals. Today they seem to be pharmaceutical sales people, and trained in medicine, which seems to depend on suppressing symptoms, and not curing disease.

the only link anyone can make about say pfizer to children with birth defects is this.

the older you are the more your body decays. thats basic biology. so elderly people becoming parents later in life have more risk of having kids with issues.
again biology.

and the linkage to pfizer would be they sell viagra that make elderly people more sexually active.
its not that viagra has a chemical that causes birth defects. its that it makes elderly people that would normally be passed the age of desiring sex. to be having sex. and thats it.

thus with more elderly having sex. the chance of pregnancy in the elderly increases
thus the chance of a child born to elderly parents is higher
thus by default of elderly biology the risk of that child having issues is higher.

..
but hey for decades idiots been thinking viagra has some pregnancy mutation chemical in it..
nope. its the age of parenting thats the problem with child development issues

i do hope jetcash and 20kevin20 have learned something. and take the info as-is and not twist it into so anti-vax campaign.

When reading the thread title, I thought it was being distributed to the religious.  :/

with all the safety stuff done to cars for hundred years.. there is no guarantee that car crashes will never happen.
cars are made of plastic and meta that dont decay, but theres no guarantee a car will last forever.

so i guess 20kevin20 is a eco-loving walker and would not use a car

no vaccine by default has lifetime guarantee's
its never been a lifetime guarantee thing. so why even try to suggest such a thing.
also they dont just hand out vaccines after 1 day.. if they did vaccines would have been available since march
think about why they started releasing vaccines in december and not march. understand tests and trial have been done. and things were checked for 9 months


but when there is like
a 1in1million risk of a non fatal allergic reaction from vaccine
a 1in1thousand risk of fatal death of covid from virus

even basic maths tells you which is better
who knows
with the virus the 1in 30 that have mild symptoms may end up damaging their organs in 'long covid' whereby thats a 1 in 30 chance of something serious

yep the health risks to covid survivors is worse than the cry baby anti-vaxxer myths of vaccine risk

what if i told you the real eugenic group are the conspiracy sites that try to tell people to get a gun and shoot people 'coz freedom'. to not get medication 'coz anti science'. to fear your neighbours 'coz communism' .

I think there are a couple of telling points. The trials are comparing the vaccine for the gullible (I'm promoting this word to preserve it) against a saline injection, or the meningitis vaccine. There doesn't seem to be any comparison trial of the vaccine against doing nothing and relying on natural immunity/ I think this is because any rational person will know which is superior. The other consideration is that no tests are being made to see if the gullible victims already have natural immunity. If this is the case, then at best the vaccine will be useless and a waste of money, or more probably, it will reduce the recipients immunity.

From Bill Gates' article, "What you need to know about the COVID-19 vaccine" - I will bold the parts I'm specifically intrigued about:

The main points I'm trying to make are:

• Gates' words still apply today, as we still have a very new vaccine and we have no idea about the potential serious long-term side-effects. No matter how robust the studies and experiments are, you and nobody else could guarantee that I will get protection from COVID, let alone that within 10 years I will not friggin' go blind!
• The elderly have the most vulnerable immunity system, yet we're giving them extra doses of an untested vaccine if one dose isn't enough for their protection. Now remember that with every dose, there are potential less-or-more serious side effects. And let me remind you that they're the most vulnerable.
• The vaccine may only protect us for a short time. With that being said, multiple doses = higher chances of getting a less-or-more serious side effect. As COVID is a mutating virus, the vaccine may be needed every few weeks/months as new strains appear.
• Through the PREP Act, vaccine manufacturers and those who inject (can't find the proper word right now) it into the body of US citizens have protection from liability. Lately, on Romanian news, the debate of offering them protection from liability in our country as well has been a quite hot subject.

So now, I have one legit question: why should I take the vaccine if:
  1. It does NOT guarantee lifetime protection from COVID
  2. It does NOT guarantee there will be no serious long-term side effects from it
  3. It may actually NOT even be a successful vaccine at all...

The first Covid infection vaccinations start today in the UK, and they are starting with the gullible. The first pictures are of an 80 year old mixed race couple, and I would have thought that they would be the ones who should have their immune systems protected. Maybe the anglophile elite feel they should have their lives shortened, and that is why they are being infected. One of the first groups will be kids with learning difficulties, and of course they are going to be trusting and compliant. You would have thought that their parents would have resisted the vaccinations, as they probably caused the kids problems through their misuse of pharmaceuticals. But then the parents are probably gullible as well, and still believe that it was an act of god, and not their gullibility in believing Bill Gates and the eugenicists.