Topic: Venezuela, a fable about socialism. Part 1/2 (Read 679 times)

Somewhat related but certainly good for a laugh...

Even Cuba has admitted the need for a strong private sector.

https://www.local10.com/news/cuba/cubas-new-regulations-for-private-sector-faces-resistance

Of course, they do, the farther and farther away you get from socialism the closer and closer you get to the system that ACTUALLY WORKS!!!!!!!!

Ding ding ding ding, we have a winner.

I wouldn't even consider China a socialist country, they're really not in any regard.

Though I do hope that the people of Venezuela have learned their lesson, in that their country is ruined forever if they go down this path again. Though, people forget quickly.

the bitcoin pump and dumpers and its big miner boys will also evolve to predatory and parasitic elites.

i am creating for this issue a special new form of cryptocurrency

 

they are called cryptosources, they are designed to secure socioeconomic foundation and keep them running

the token are also property rights over value sources in the human infrastructure environment.

eliminating the central bank scam and abuse, forcing a huge population to sell their time while enriching the central bank minority with passive income sources.

my cryptosources will revolutionary change the industry

regards

Here's How We Ended Up With Predatory, Parasitic Elites







Read more at https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-28/heres-how-we-ended-predatory-parasitic-elites.

jes but that so called prison can also be considered as a paradise full of opportunities look how many refugees beg to be allowed to live in those "prisions" people can fullfill their dreams there, like becoming a model actor, cook etc. while in the wild middle east and africa people are being abused as cattle or direct slaves for food, by those that are armed, and those that are armed got their weapons from the west who they sold goods and ressources to because the west is stable and can develop those weapons.

so the wilderness of africa and the middle east or impoverished developing countries can be even worse prisons.

iluminati is a mental condition and everyone can join it for free its like converting to a religion, that is not defined by someone, but being in an environment defined by economic rules, and limitations

Oh sure I'd agree with that, the ones who try and play inside the system will get decimated as well. I believe there are likely only a few hundred or less true elites/illuminati and they are not occupying any official government positions. They just hand down orders to government officials. It seems pretty obvious to me that the official presidents of countries are nothing special, just puppets for the true power. Why would anyone with true power want to actually occupy that position and deal with all the BS?

it depends on the perspective. what a slave is. if you look at those in the power centre, they can equally be considered enslaved by the obligations they are forced to fullfil

The person who gets the SSN is not the man or woman. Rather, it is the name on the SSN application or SS-4 Form. It doesn't bind anybody to anything except that which is written on the agreement. However, if some government official says it binds somebody to something, and if the man or woman agrees, then he/she is bound... not by the SSN, but by the agreement.

The SS person and the man or woman remain separate. The person receives SS checks and welfare. The man/woman benefits because they are the owners of the person. Government understands some of this, but the people rarely understand any of it.

Yes and people sign up for this agreement by getting their SS (slave number), the true mark of the beast.

Actually, back at the beginnings of the USA, people had a very different understanding of the way things work in America.

Dig out a copy of the 4th Amendment, and notice that little word, "persons," therein. That little word is one of the most important words in the whole Constitution and Bill of Rights. The people back then understood it, and would be shocked if they knew that we don't.

Back in those days, a person was a piece of paper that was an agreement. The reason it was called a person was that it had the name of a real live man or woman on it. The person was not the man or woman. Rather, it was simply an agreement. Everybody back then understood this.

Nowadays, a person actually IS the man or woman, or worse, the opposite. The man or woman becomes the person. And this is used in court all the time.

A prosecutor makes a person/document by placing the name of a man or woman on a piece of paper, and then he and the judge talk the man or woman into essentially stating that they are the person... the piece of paper. The man or woman is made liable for whatever judgment is placed on the piece of paper, because they agreed that they were the person on the paper.

If the people ever woke up, there would be a whole bunch of dead attorneys and judges and bankers lying around all over the place. In addition, the whole country would go back to real capitalism, because everybody would realize that he had the right to make his own persons to labor for real money, rather than for Federal Reserve debt instruments.

There a not single country in the world right now that is remotely capitalist. USA before 1900-1930 or so is the closest we've ever come and the USA is still living off the wealth and advantage created from that time period.

Unfortunately something like that may possibly never occur again since the USA was a very unique case where mostly independent minded people immigrated here. Most people are tribe minded group thinkers so it will be tough for anything similar to happen.

small governments and small states have different problems, like greedy capitalists killing and surpressing each other and the population, like in aristocratic europ middle east china india etc.

Haha. Yes the central bankers control things, you know how they do that? Through a big government which is always supported by socialist. In a small government system you will not have a central bank that is why the USA did not have one till 1913 when things started going downhill fast.

There's currently a great silence over the election of a Marxist president in South Africa, and his implementation of the plan to confiscate all the farms owned by "white farmers."

Want to guess how that's likely to turn out?

I can not affirm or deny your comment, just go to comment a bit, what analysts, I guess more versed than me, have said about it.

In each essay of socialism, which obviously ends up failing, the only difference is how long it takes to do it, the first thing that is done, and is part of the formula or the franchise of socialism, that is, that what failed, was not really socialism.

All this argument, is nothing else, than to leave the door open for future trials, where in the long run the result will be the same, total failure.

To this comment, the defenders of European socialism always come out, and that's where the socialists have been great, in converting European Humanism, in socialism by definition, to use them as a possible example, in none of those "socialisms" is there talk of nationalization, limitation of freedoms, or permits to buy food. They have been great in Marketing Communism, as socialism, to mix it with that humanism that was called socialism.

In the end, the result of socialism, if it is the one that has been seen, Total failure.

nope socialism fails because a small group (central banksters) is pretending it looks for the whole group while secretly enriches itself, at the expense of the group they controll.

why does socialism rises in the first place then? you want to live in presocialist aristocratic russia?

seriously who would want to live in presocialist aristocratic russia instead of socialist russia. except those that are massivly brainwashed with religion, or the ex russian nobility.

and aristocratic russia had the highest food security of all monarchic aristocratic capitalist societies on the entire eurasian and african continent and still communism broke out there.

i dont say socialism is perfect, but i say that there could be much worse forms of capitalism that you are experiencing in venezuela right now, like for example zimbabwe, india, etc.

The only time socialism has ever worked is if you restrict it to a very small group or tribe. (Like the amish who I believe limit each group to about 250 people)

Every time its tried on a mass scale it ends in abject failure because its based on the idea that everyone is looking out for the group as a whole. That is never going to happen when millions of people are involved it goes against basic human nature.

But people are too stupid to learn from the past.

Obvious, because, Venezuela is part of the west.   

venezuela's crysis is the job of economic hitmen from the west

Loads of links to info about Venezuela, with pictures and some videos, right here - http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Subjects/00494-LAST-venezuela.htm...

Plus...

Venezuelan Earthquake: Natural or Engineered - http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Article/246029-2018-08-22-venezuelan-earthquake-natural-or-engineered.htm

That's very perceptive.

Socialist nations make progress when they move AWAY from socialism.

Even Cuba, today, does not ban the accumulation of private wealth. Both China and Russia support private capitalism. One may not like the Russian gangster version or the Chinese version, but they have moved FAR from socialist principles and ideology.

After the Venezuelan people restart their economy, if they still want leaders who promise them free stuff, it's pretty hopeless.

You missed the part where this isn't the 'real socialism' and that they failed in their 'development' and the 'wrong people are in charge'

People don't understand that this is what a government FULLY entrenched in socialism is a government that is ALWAYS going to end up like Venezuela.

I do hope that they go down in flames, and I really do hope that people learn from this -- though I don't know if this is going to end up being the case. It always seems to end up being that people are going to say that this isn't the 'real way' and they're going to try it again somewhere else. It's usually a nation that was beautiful and booming before too, sad.....

the country is developed people have to run their economic infrastructure. foreigners dont do anything else but either. use the venezuelans as workers.

or just settle there and run their own economic output if the venezuelans dont support their currency or cant trust their banksters. to run their currency well then venezuela will be passivly ruled by a foreign country. same as it was with the russians and the us dollar when the soviet union collapsed.

Unfortunately, I do not say that it is the whole society. In Venezuela a saving Messiah is still waiting.

Someone external, come, solve problems, be fast, not cost them and in the end leave them better than they are now.

Everyone aspires for another to come and resolve, but never sacrifice anything.

If we can call that a failed state, well yes it is.

Neither the government is so bad, nor the opposition is so good, in the end, mediocrity is that Venezuela does not finish taking a course, whatever, but that generates at least the necessary calm for the country to develop.

a state consists of two things

a willing active and engaging population and a relatively passive government

in venezuela both parties dont trust each other and dont work with each other, but look for foreigners to help them. so its a form of a broken society.

a huge shame is that venezuelans power now crappy cryptocurrencies like dash with their lives....

Irony? I'm going to tell you something, the Monopoly game, part of the principle that up to 8 players can play, and each one will receive 1500 units, and its equivalent must have the bank, so the game, in tickets, has a maximum equivalent of 24,000 units in different denominations. that game is sold in Venezuela for 20,000,000 Bs, so each unit that comes in the game is worth more than a bolivar, so it could be used as a currency in Venezuela.

A "funny" fact is that the currency (Bolivar Venezuelan) is currently worth less than the in-game money of the massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) by Blizzard Entertainment: World of Warcraft.

This is not the first time.

The German hyperinflation of 1921-1922 is detailed in an excellent book which is available online, "Dying of Money."

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1959317.Dying_of_Money

There is also a fiction story by a rather famous writer, "The Black Obelisk" about three young guys trying to live in those times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Obelisk

the central banksters, and the gay army and police men around them are living on venezuelan oil reserves. instead of the foreign corporation that seized the oil of the country, now they do that.

this is the consequence you got. they are what is left of venezuelans xenophobia. that was pointed on foreign corporations that were active in that region.

@MbyzIco are you a venezuelan?

but dont worry this will never end, if you remove them someone else will be in their core and centre the ressources on those that are powerful and can hold it

you know che guevaras travel through south america? you should check it. its an old movie about the 60ies there you see where the hatred came from that foundades the current governments in latin america.

Definitely what happens in Venezuela is a case study, it is incomprehensible what happens here, what I think happens is that it is a great laboratory of socialism of the era we live in, it is a testing ground.

It is incredible that after the earth movement that there was, in Venezuela there was not even one wounded, thank God, because there is no way to deal with a problem of a certain magnitude.

What is true and surprising, is the attitude of the people, worthy of study and capable of driving anyone crazy, but I think it would be a topic for a new post, because it is inexplicable, while all this happens, while they devalue the currency, it trembles In all the territory, three zeros are removed from the coin, there is a giant inflation, the traffic to go to the beach the weekend was incredible and I was invited last Saturday to a very big party.

I will try to summarize a bit of this social madness in another article, but the summary is, in Venezuela what happens happens, because society is not up to the events.

jes there are many reasons, main problem in that society is that a part wants to live on the back of the other part.

stupid venezuelans think that capitalism will feed and make them rich, but they are wrong capitalism will like in russia simply remove all rewards for those not in the capital core of the structured economy. and make a small group of mainly foreign capitalists rich (usdollar) forcing venezuela to earn their paper recktangles to obtain consumption capacities.

now, foreign capitalist might do their job better than venezualan capitalists. but there are still questions open. in the end venezuela has had its independence movement from the european colonisation for a reason.

now they are suffering under it. its an extrordinary irony that venezuelans are spiting on their boliviar now.

regards

Ufff I heard the news!!! Are you OK??
I think this is too much, I don' t know how much a society can take without exploding into a civil war. Do you see it possible? A civil war is coming?

I do not say things like these again, I just said it, and yesterday in the afternoon was an earthquake of scale 7...

Definitely, someone is playing JUMANJI and the game is not over yet.

petro sounds like a grave nail on boliviarsindependence movement several hundred years ago

Venezuela today has dawned with one of the most confusing economic situations, never before seen by these sides, it happens that in an arbitrary move, the president of the republic (although I refuse to give him that title, it is only referential) has anchored the economy to a cryptocurrency, it sounds for the crypto enthusiasts, within which I count, it would sound like good news, but it happens that it has anchored a new monetary cone, which is the result of removing 5 zeros from the currency, product of inflation, anchor the PETRO cryptocurrency, which is protected by untapped oil reserves. with a minimum salary increase of 5,000,000 Bs to 180,000,000 Bs. and an increase in exchange rate of Bs per dollar from 200,000 to 6,000,000.

Venezuela is convulsed since yesterday, traders do not know whether to open their doors, while entrepreneurs expect to see how things unfold, what there is is uncertainty and that is accompanied by seeing how all bank accounts were removed from the 5 zeros

Caracas remains empty waiting to understand, to see what is done.



I would like to tell you that I will continue to inform you of what is happening, but I do not know what else could happen and if I could do it.

entire post dollar movement is end of us capitalism.

venezuela was always differant than russia or china.

it was a communist movement. that was anti western corporations

Ah, no it is not.

It is really useful to read a  thread related to the daily life there in Venezuela. One of the biggest interest of History is to analyze the daily life of the subjects of a society. So your contribution is not only amazing but also really useful in terms of history.
Sometimes I wonder why we don't discuss more such kind of matters here in the forum. I think we are forgetting all the time that this cyber place is full of people from all around the world. Even when it was meant to be a site to discuss bitcoin, one of the goals of its creation -the bitcoin creation, of course - was precisely to decentralize humankind, ok, yes, the economy, but isn' t knowledge a direct information part of an economic system?

So thanks for that. I guess this is not easy to speak so openly about your daily nightmare. But you are contributing to the decentralization of information in the world by doing so. So, again, thanks.

soviet socialism was constantly busy building weapons protecting itself from imperialists in the usa.

us capialism is currently also collapsing since its constantly abusing the masses of the population. by a small elite sitting in the central banks

Soviet socialism was much like Venezuelan and even worse... rampant corruption, completely distorted market, totalitarian oppression, massive propaganda to keep the population in the dark and in constant fear of imaginary enemies. Propped up by enormous natural resources and still managed to collapse.

I don't know much about China but it seems to be embracing a lot more of the capitalist perks and it has far outlived the Soviet Union so they must be smarter than Chavez or Stalin.

the point here is that he labels venezuala as socialist, but its not socialist, in its organisational form,

venezuelas mistake was that is just distributed its earnings from oils instead of investing them to develop income sources for the population structuring their economy, in the long term

we have a similar problem in the developed west today, because established property owners of income sources have no desire for the rest of the population being able to obtain income sources they want cheap and needy salary slaves. they even tear down income sources like real estate to increase the prices limit the supply so the population that works for money is even more imprisioned.

chaves thought short term, and maduro and his military tops think even more short term, they give a damn about the majority of the population and try to survive somehow.

a socalism of that way is doomed to fail. chinese or soviet socialism/european was very different it was focused on the development of value sources, even if not very efficient.

socialism was created because there was large scale abusal of the working population beforehand. the united states never had to be socialist as it had an abundance of ressources that europe never had, europe always was forced to ship them in needing soldiers, armies etc.

regards

Pure "capitalism" or "socialism" or "communism" doesn't exist anywhere. Even NorK has "entrepreneurs" trying to survive under the brutally oppressive regime, and on the other hand an idealistic libertarian society can't exist because poor people dying on the streets would smell really bad after a while so the state is forced to take some action to provide basic safety net and other social(ist) services.

However a nearly-failed authoritarian regime like Venezuela does come very close to pure capitalism... except the remnants of the regime are distorting the market with stuff like cheap gas and free subway.

Thanks for the write-up MbyzIco.

well then do capitalism and work for the central bank of maduro.

capitalism is basically obeying and trying to earn money, but the central bank then decides for what there is money. good luck living in a society in which the central bank doesnt has any social goals.

you then have to hope to be born into the central bank running family or you are the central banks slave.

just look at zimbabwe? it is also capitalism, there is no form of socialism you either earn simbabwe dollar or you die. now make a video about the economic success of zimbabwe's capitalism

Do not worry, that is why we have learned a lot already at the world level, communism, socialists change to win elections, then shows his gifts of totalitarianism and finally in its final phase resembles classic dictatorships. but the funny thing is that when they fail, no matter what they call them, there they say that this was not the true "socialism" or that it was simply misapplied. Simple excuses to justify that in other states, at other times or with other tools, the favorite model of the bourgeois Marx is rehearsed.

>Maduro is your capitalist

What am i reading? Venezuela is a classic case of a failed socialist state. A lesson to be learned for the world... AGAIN

That's ridiculous. It seems like they're just getting deeper and deeper into a pit that will have to come to and end. This can go on forever. They're just delaying an inevitable big change. I don't completely understand how all this works, but I agree with KingScorpio. This sounds like capitalism. It's just capitalism gone wrong I suppose. This reminds me of another thread I read here about mining in Venezuela. You confirm what I originally thought. Even if you can get the gear in Venezuela, you're gonna have problems with the internet and electricity and corruption. Really doesn't sound like the best place to mine to me.

actually this isn't socialism its also capitalism, the capital is your beloved bolivares, your capital is your central bank in venezuela. socialism is a concept of human behavior. if venezuelans dont want to work their infrastracture and destroy it through bitcoin mining they are absolutely the opposite of being socialist to each other.

you venezuelans forget that the capitalism of the united states i regionalistic, corporate and tied to its banking cartel, it is based on an army that threathens oil producing countries. not everyone can be the winner of capitalism only view. just look at crypto its also capitalism and its allbout who defines the current world currency

maduro is your capitalist he is the one that holds the pedro your national currency. the problem is with his behavior he has defined rich and poor declaring himself and his army protectors rich or even more billionaires of venezuela

Many times, we believe that our reality is common to everyone, that our situations can be particular, but within a generalized environment, sometimes when we talk with one or other people, we propose solutions from our perspective, and often in this same forum, we attack or we sympathize with the positions of one or the other, but always starting from our reality.

That is why I allow myself to explain how is an average day of a person in Venezuela, with the addition of being a citizen "positive crypto" I just took this term out of the sleeve, it is simply a person who believes in the project of the cryptocurrency, understands its global value, and is willing to participate in it.

Dawn not so early, because the water faults, made you stay up late collecting water to take a bath in the morning.

Check your Rig of mining through the phone, fast, because the largest data plan is 1.5 Gb per month, noting that for some reason your WIFI service of 1 or 2 MB contracted for any reason does not work.

Your RiG stopped at 3am, because there is no internet, you restart it, counting that during the day, while you are not, the internet flies.

Sales either in your car or with the meter, which is FREE, but being free, I leave the image to give you an idea.





In any case, luckily it is Free, because there is no cash to pay the ticket, the cash for its lack, it became a good, so you can sell one million in cash in two million by bank transfer.

You arrive at your place of work, where, thank goodness, there is a 4MB internet contract for being corporate, and you can fairly navigate. well, almost, because it has constant drops.

Try to access local bitcoin to sell the mined so far (yes, I know that I speak of an RIG above, and it has nothing to do with Bitcoin, but take everything as a fable), it happens that your buyer no longer exists, and has days it does not appear.

You read a story on Instagram (the most reliable network, since there is no official information) where they say that many people were imprisoned in an operation called "paper hands" for buying and selling dollars and bitcoins (generic for cryptocurrencies).

you decide to sell the dollars directly to a third person person, and start the search for this person, at this time they offer you 3,200,000 bs per dollar, it seems unfair and you let it go.

prepare your material, since you are going to give a small talk to a group about cryptocurrencies, this time, you take your car, but first you have to load fuel, which is worth very little, for less than 1 cent of dollar you fill the tank, but the The row that you have to buy is so big, that you leave it and decide to continue like this.

You arrive at your link of the talk, it turns out that it was suspended because there is no electricity since early in the morning.

you go for a coffee and something to eat, but that costs about 5,000,000 Bs (a minimum monthly salary) remember that you must sell a few dollars, because you will not be able to eat well if you do not have bolivares.

You go to a store to talk to the owner to explain the advantages of receiving cryptocurrencies in a hyperinflationary economy, and all goes well until he asks you: Is it legal? There the world falls, you do not know what to say, the answer is yes, but if a policeman arrives no matter what the law says, he will want part of what you have collected, so this merchant decides not to expose himself and decides do not participate.

They call you to buy you the dollars, this time they offer you 3,500,000 Bs. It seems better and fair price (although you do not know that it rose to 3,800,000 Bs, that's why they offer it to you) and you decide to sell 10 dollars.

and you receive something like this:




you go through the bakery where you took the coffee, and you realize that what you ate today, tomorrow will cost 20% more, that is about 6,000,000 Bs. Better to set aside the money now, or eat at home.