Topic: Vital Facts and Figures about Merit Point System.(Answers to your Queries) (Read 2470 times)

Updated

He is already in my gallery of beggars and merit sellers.
http://cryptobounty.com/bitcointalk-beggars/

Have you found any more?

Thank you, I already see it.
So right, I do not have to do that, although it is allowed but I will not do it. I don't care i spent sMerit to good quality posts but I not get merit from other users, I will be satisfied if my sMerit spent on good quality posts and not spent sMerit for sale. LOL!

Yes, allowed. Have a look on an example, how can you do that.  
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/i-have-26-merits-buy-it-if-you-want-2827197

I just know selling merit is allowed, thanks for this information. But I'm worried to do it, so I guess better do not need to do. #confused

Night Bump


Here is something nice you should read before going to sleep.

Do not give ideas to sellers and scammers.

Excellent thought that merit system will improve forum quality ; but has to go with governance .  We will need good governance system to create creditable merit system.

Interesting. Thank you for information

In law, everything that isn't illegal is allowed. I think theymos doesn't want to moderate sales, just like scams aren't moderated.
So far, the community has been giving red trust for likely Merit trading.

I can imagine a Merit seller will at some point offer a complete package:
1. A high quality post to post
2. Merit on that post
If this happens, it will be very tricky to find.

Alright, so if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly, this is shown on the page to Merit Sources, and not to any other users?
If so, does this imply that all non-merit sources are allowed to sell their merit? That's still kinda concerning.

Also, "sell" is sketchy. I presume you can't directly pay people for goods and services. But, can you hold competitions where you give out merit to winners or users meeting some criteria? Can you frequently give merit to users when they help you in particular, rather than help other users, making it some sort of tacit assistance for merit?

The way he answered all the questions I thought he is the part of staff. Sorry and thanks

There is a rule against it.  The forum itself states:


See above.  It is stated by the forum on a need to know basis.

Sorry, none of these still answer it to me.
The post linked by LoyceV is just another user, not a moderator/theymos.

And Lutpin is an active member, but not a part of the staff as far as I know.... So is there any official word on it that anyone can link me to?

Although I didn't find that answer all over the forum but this is still the best reply for this question. I guess?

Consequences for the selling merit could be very bad for them.
Lutpin says: "It isn't allowed for sources to sell their merit, a punishment could go from being booted as source all the way up to getting your account banned, depending on how far you stepped out of line."

The source is this post in this thread. The question seems philosophical to me: someone can pay a merit source, and the merit source can give merit. But it's not allowed for a source to sell his merits.

Minor request, can you add links to sources in the original post, so that it's easy to validate the facts?

In particular, if you remember where you found the source for the following answer, I would appreciate it:


(I would like to know whether the forum has its own rules against it or "caught" just means negative trust)

I think you missed this one

Q: The sMerit we have at the beginning won't regenerate after it is over?
A: Yes, that is your free pack of sMerit, use them wisely.

Nice, keep supporting the forum.

They are gone. You can only get more sMerits by being a merit source, or when others give you merits. (You get 1 sMerit for every two merits that you get)

Hi SM23031997,

Thank you so much for the post. I find it very detailed and clear, now I have a much better idea about the new merit system.

Also, I translated your post to Chinese and post in our local section so that our local community will also get better understanding about the new system and try to make high quality posts.   

Link to my post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/merit-2829839   

Q: If someone is a Member, and he got 30 sMerits by default, after they use the 30 sMerits, is it like gone forever? Or they will be given a few new sMerits every day?

I would agree with you if there was an easy way to identify these posts, like sorting posts in a thread by merit; which probably wouldn't make much sense in a forum setting as well because the order of the posts is integral to understanding what is being discussed. As such, in its current state, I'm not convinced how merits are going to improve the quality of discussions in an average thread.

I's just  to this replies, people, why don't you read carefully the thread before asking same question again and again and have the details be understand by you first before asking a question that obviously the answer is already there?? 

I completely support and I consider it a question one of the most important. The answer to him it isn't received yet. I consider that the lack of encouragement for expenditure of smerit, does innovations not answering stated purposes.

You're wrong here: I gain a lot from improving the post quality on this forum.
I have reported many bad posts, and the spam only got worse. I see Merits as the opposite: I can now reward good posts! Of course I'll keep doing that. I already think a Jr. Member with 35 Merit has much more interesting posts to read than a Legendary with exactly 1000 Merit (which means nobody gave anything to more than 1000 posts).

Sorted the list. Reading it now will give much better experience.

Thanks, Updated.

Good point. There's no/low incentive for people (especially merit sources) to merit others, besides moral obligation of course. This could potentially clog the whole system. The easy fix would be adding more merit source and hope they will keep giving their sMerit to the community. The current condition is definitely not balanced, there are too few merit sources compared to the rate of new posts being made. I hope some new tweaks and addition of merit sources will bring this system to equilibrium.

Think of it this way, The main purpose of this merit system is to encourage users to create quality posts/posts that actually contributes. How are we gonna do that if you can get merits without creating quality posts?

Can we only get Merits by high quality posts?

Some random ideas, maybe we can add more ways to get merit, for example, complete certain tasks, stay online for a certain amount of time, etc. 

You needn't neccessarily make high quality posts, that you are thinking of. Also helpful replies are worth to get Merits. I saw already short but helpful answers, that were merited.

I get the point alright, but I think it won't work, because you are relying on the benevolence of total strangers who are supposed to do you a favor even though they gain absolutely nothing from it. Especially when you consider that there isn't enough merit to go around in the first place.

You should give merits so as to encourage quality posts on the forum. This will help new members to rank up. There is no monetary benefit for this. But if everybody starts thinking the same, you will also remain stuck at current level. Hope you got the point.

My question still stands: What happens if they expire? Even if I had millions of sMerits which I could give to people every day, why should I give merits? Giving out merits is not changing my life in any way.

Merit sources need to give those Smerits (about 9000 per month) otherwise they expire. It is mentioned that if hoarding of merits is seen in future, they might be nullified.

I have a question which I think hasn't been addressed yet: Why should anyone give merit? What is the incentive behind it?

I understand that we are trying to implement a system similar to reddit where people are motivated to make high quality posts in order to get upvotes, but the way reddit displays posts is so different than us. Redditors are motivated to upvote posts because high quality posts always appear on top, so whichever thread I go to, I'm likely to see high quality posts at the top. That means it is in my interest to upvote good posts because I always want to see good posts at the top.

But this is a forum and no matter what the merit count of a post is, it will always be in the same position, so giving merit is not affecting anybody's user experience on this forum. As such, I feel like there will be a huge lack of merit, especially for relatively new users, because no one will feel the need to hand out merit.

So in summary, my question once again: Why would anyone give anyone merit?

Thanks in advance for anyone's response to this question.

Thanks for collating the information on merits. I see something that might be a minor error though.

I think this:


refers to sMerits, and not Merits.

Quoting my Merits page:


You might want to update that in your original post.

Will there be new Limits on PMs for Merit Point System?

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it will be better to add

---

Don't worry, Conditions will get clear pretty soon.
Account farmers try to sell merit points and accounts with good rank, and in the process some get caught red handed while others get caught later. All in all only real users able to make to the last. Yes, there are chances we see some members leaving the forum in the process but the step only benefit the forum at last.

Thanks, Updated
Keep Supporting the thread, I will consider few names on 31st for Merit points.

How much does the gig pay? TBC, I'm talkin' yo-yo BTC not in the form of them sM thingies.

Q. How many sMerits have been distributed to existing members?
Ans. About 600k.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.28927946

and Q7 must be updated

Maybe for someone and is not difficult. If you understand what exactly you can earn those points. But if I'm not as versed in the intricacies of the cryptocurrency to be more useful than just to post program reporting generosity? What then? I think there are many such people on the forum who are just starting to comprehend the basics of the cryptocurrency community.

Sure, added.
Thanks

For you information let me clear that upgrade to Jr. Member is not affected by this and for a member rank you need to collect only 10 Merit point which isn't that hard as you get 60 days for that.

Can certainly, the idea of Merit and good in the future. But with regard to members below the Member, then they certainly ambush. Newcomers and beginners to ask questions and learn new things. What super the benefits they can bring (not counting the really experienced beginners) and to earn Merit for it?

Might want to add this info into OP:

Of course he should be banned if the intention of new concept is to fight spam.

What about that dude who is trying to sell his sM for a million dollars? I think he should be banned. WAIT! That's me or was it my other account? Please ignore this post or give me sM (apologies if beggin' for sM is not allowed; just humor).

Humor aside, thanks OP for this informative thread. I have lent you 5 sM, looking forward to you lending me 10 sM back (interest).

Starting merit system  is beneficial to everyone especially to the forum and I clearly see the point of implementing it. I was just a bit excited that few days from now I will be SR. Too bad. I won't be expecting it this week Sir.
Well thank you for confirmations and I am glad that even if we can not help bitcoin develop, you try to limit crowding.
Hope this go well, though I know it would. 

I meant those quality posters that are not even noticeable because of spammers.
I think even with the merit system, they would still try to build up words just to post something.
Sorry for the term I have used Sir.

I know how bad you guys are feeling at the time but believe me with time spammers will be out of the game, account farmers won't able to manipulated things anymore. These things will benefit the loyal members of the forum, members with long relationship with forum able to achieve new landmarks.

You will not rank up unless you meet the activity AND merit qualification for that rank:

Rank	Required activity	Required merit
Brand new	0	0
Newbie	1	0
Jr Member	30	0
Member	60	10
Full Member	120	100
Sr. Member	240	250
Hero Member	480	500
Legendary	Random in the range 775-1030	1000

What do you mean by "sunked in threads" ??

If I may ask some question,
So the rank up system is now connected to the merit system, four days from now updates for activities will happen.
For those who are about to rank up, will it be postponed because of not having enough merit?

Another thing is how would anyone manage to give sMerit to everyone who deserves it without getting sunked in threads?

Sorry if ever I have bad English.

Its true.. thats right! I hope Moderators of the forum change something because it is madness

Correct me if I am wrong, how i see new system and how it will work now. I am a member, I have 10 merits and I can reward someone with 5 smerits. Once I do that , i have 0 smerits and they will not recover anymore,  the only way to earn new merits will be through making a quality post and hope that random accounts who were delegated with new merits in this month will find my post and reward me. Taking into account amount of new threads created every minute on bitcointalk, there is a chance of 99%, that my post will be lost and not rewarded, eventhough i could have spent weeks of research and couple of hours to write it.
Ok, let's go further , now i see people who have old account are creating threads with offers to sell their smerit vote for 1-5 dollars per one , which creates a market of votes tgat might get even more expensive later.
Another option is to start exhanging merits with other users 1 for 1, since there is no point give anyone it for free. With my account i can exchange only 5 smerits and in order to get 100  full member for me would be impossible , unless i buy merits from someone or get randomly upvoted by someone from random sources (which is very small chance). To get 95 merits i would need to spend nearly 500 usd and that all for a chance to participate in bounty campaign with better conditions than member.
Also the question appears what stops random sources to upvote only their friends or sell votes?
I am not even talking about junior members who cannot participate in bounty campaigns because signature was taken away.  What is the difference now between junior member and newbyee? I see none.
From my personal opinion you created an inside market, where everyone will either exchange their votes or sell them , there will be no upvotes for nothing, because smerits are not recovered with a new period. That will lead in its turn to outflow of new users and making them to search for alternatives in other forums, for instance deeponion which is progressing very fast.
These are just my 2 cents on current situation.

I think no metter what you write as newbie, no one Merit you.. sorry) and not only you ! No one merit without self benefits

Why you saying it? My posts was quality before!
Real guys you are pretending to be good, but will Merit only friends, not quality posts, just friends!
But for Hero and Legendary its no metter becuase they become hign level with much easy way!!
I posted now quality post, with real opinion
Who can Merit it?

That's because you can't stop people with hero, sr. member, full member and others status to join airdrops bounty with this new feature. Negative trust from trusted members is to ensure that the quality poster get place in these kind of campaigns and every shitposter get out of the forum.

Assume a account farmer has 5 account with Sr. member status and the new feature can't stop him from joining campaign as he already have a status to join the campaign. Negative trust with time will ensure that none of his shit posting account get place into any campaign.

Then how did you manage to get that +1 merit point?

You can say like that. It means you need to influence people around you.

Now you have to earn only by posting quality posts. This has been done to add manual inspection without troubling mods much.

I understand why it profitably for you!!!
But I am sure! that people wont be to Merit because of quality posts)) And everyone it understand! come on!

I repeat my question here:
Merit is created to support high quality posts and prevent spamming posts. No upgrades of memberships without earned Merits.
The DT-guidlines are clear:




So my question is:
Why are still accounts getting negative trusts because of post quality?
Don't the DT-members trust the new feature?

You earn it when you make good quality posts. It's not about the content now it's about the quality of content and community members decide whether the information is relevant and deserves the Merit or not.

You need to come up with some high quality standard on frequent time to be eligible for merit. People often earn respect and trust on forums and now it's time for Merit.

I think this will ultimately not be enforceable unfortunately.

Is it fair that merits will be only like change , just one for one? people will not give merit ofr interesting post or suggestion.. I dont see the sense in it... it will be better to earn it somehow

I now have 0 sMerit point after using it, but I can still see the "+1 Merit" button.

If a newbie or Jr Member that had received at least 2 Merits = 1 sMerit can confirm that he can now see the button,
the answer should be like this:
A: After receiving your first sMerit, the button will be visible.

Some probably got the time to do it like this thread here

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/smerit-post-review-2819141

Also made few points here

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.28888705

Now the problem here will be would other members be active enough to use their merit points to give to other members? I have seen similar features on other forums as well and  they don't bother to use it. But who knows it is a new system and members might be well aware of what comes when they are giving merits to other members as ranking up is on the line.

Q. Is it possible for merit source to sell merits ?
A. This is possible but everything is public and it will be caught. Also, there are limits. (Response by theymos)

Q. I have 100 merits for now. Can anyone reduce it ?
A. For now, no one can demerit you and thus you will have at least 100 for sure.

Q. How can I spend 0.5 Smerit whih I get when someone sends me a merit?
A. You have to wait for another merit so that you get another 0.5 Smerit.

Q. Do merits decay ?
A. Not for now, but if people start to hoard, it would be implemented. (Response by theymos)

Q. Why I am not able to see +merit option ?
A. This will occur is you have 0 Smerits currently. Possible in a number of scenarios. Like you are a newbie or Jr member with 0 merits. This means you have 0 Smerits as well and you will not see that option.

Q- Where to check current merits in my profile ?
A- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit

Q: Why can't I find the "+Merit" button to rate a post?
A: You can only see the button when you have sMerit to give away. It is on the right besides the quote button, but hidden when you have 0 sMerit.

Q: spend it on yourself ?
A: You cannot send merit to yourself

You can try first two by meriting such post. Choose one that you really feels adds value to the community and share the results here.

Yes (tested).

Yes (tested).

I think he was speaking about sMerit, the sendable supply.
If theymos thinks there are too many sMerit in circulation (or rather, hoarded on accounts instead of being circulated),
he could decide to cut the sMerit of all accounts to reduce that supply (or maybe only take away sMerit from those that dont use them in the first place).

He also might consider a "demerit" system for the future, however that is currently not integrated or planned.

About "necro merit"
-Is it possible to +1 posts from before merit system introduction?
-Does meriting posts made earlier than account(+1 giver) registration date possible?
-theymos said that typically one can not loose merit, what is the untypical than? strictly speaking - how to loose merit?

Ans: Yes

How many sendable merits are given by default to different rank levels ? Shouldn't be half of merit points as declared in official thread ?

Are there any merit sources in the local thread?

Help me make it more informative and attractive. I'll spend 25 Merit points(One Time) + some cash reward(Every Friday) - Spreadsheet.

I'm going to pick each and every answer about merit point and list them here. You can help me by posting Question with there right solution and I try to list them here as soon as possible.

Q: What is Merit point and why we need it?
A: In addition to activity, everyone now has a merit score, and you need both a certain activity level and a certain merit score in order to reach higher member ranks.

Q: Difference between Merit and sMerit?
A: You have Merits, those you cannot send.
You also have sMerits, those you can only send, they have no other purpose.

Q: How can I earn Merit points?
A: You have to make some high quality posts to get Merit points.

Q: I have 100 merits for now. Can anyone reduce it ?
A: For now, no one can demerit you and thus you will have at least 100 for sure.

Q: How can I earn sMerit points?
A: For Every Merit point you receive you get a .5 sMerit(Spendable Merit Point).

Q: The sMerit we have at the beginning won't regenerate after it is over?
A: Yes, that is your free pack of sMerit, use them wisely.

Q: Do sMerits decay ?
A: Not for now, but if people start to hoard, it would be implemented.

Q: How many merit point I can send to a single person?
A: You can only give 50 merit to a user in a 30 day window.

Q: Will deleting my post with merit points will also lead to the deletion of all the merit points?
A: No, The merit is not undone if the post is deleted.

Q: How many merit sources are there?
A: There are about 49 right now. Check here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=sources

Q: Where I can find the list of Merit Sources?
A: List is not publicly available, not it will in future so that people don't bug them too much.

Q: How merit points will be distributed to sources every month and in what ratio?
A: Each source has a different limit per 30 days. The current average is 202.5(approx), and in total up to 9925 sMerit could be created per month.

Q: How to become Merit source(if possible)?
A:    1. Be a somewhat established member.
        2. Collect TEN posts written in the last couple of months that have not received nearly enough merit for how good they are, and post quotes for them all in a new Meta thread.
        3. We will take a look at your history and maybe make you a source.

Q:  Are there any merit sources in the local thread?
A: Yes

Q: How many spendable merits are given by default to different rank levels ?
A:  The spendable amount was calculated based on your current rank and the number of activity points you earned in the last year.

Q: There is something unusual with my merit points?
A: It might take up to 24 hours for the cache to clear.

Q: Why can't I find the "+Merit" button to rate a post?
A: You can only see the button when you have sMerit to give away(After receiving your first sMerit point, the button will be visible.). It is on the right besides the quote button, but hidden when you have 0 sMerit.

Q: What is the role of this Merit Point System?
A: Ranking system no more relies only on activity period and activity points with exceptions. Instead it relies on both activity points as well as Merit Points.

Q: What will be the benefit of Merit Point System?
A: Merit Point System help to stop excessive spam and account farming.

Q: How I get ranked up now, what is the new in it?
A: Now onward you must have some required minimum Merit points in order to reach another rank.

Rank	Required activity	Required merit
Brand new	0	0
Newbie	1	0
Jr Member	30	0
Member	60	10
Full Member	120	100
Sr. Member	240	250
Hero Member	480	500
Legendary	Random in the range 775-1030	1000

Q: How can I see other user's merit data or Will it be visible who gives merits to who?
A: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=764381

Q: Where I can check who sent me the merit point? or How can I check Where I spent my sMerit points?
A: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit

Q: Where can I see some Interesting data about Merit points?
A: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats

Q: Is it possible for merit source to sell merits ?
A: This is possible but everything is public and it will be caught. Also, there are limits.

Q: Q. How many sMerits have been distributed to existing members?
A: About 600k.

Q: Can you spend it on yourself ?
A: You cannot send merit to yourself

Q: Is it possible to +1 posts from before merit system introduction?
A: Yes (tested).

Q: Does meriting posts made earlier than account(+1 giver) registration date is possible?
A: Yes (tested).

Q: theymos said that typically one can not loose merit, what is the untypical than?
A: I think he was speaking about sMerit, the sendable supply.
If theymos thinks there are too many sMerit in circulation (or rather, hoarded on accounts instead of being circulated),
he could decide to cut the sMerit of all accounts to reduce that supply (or maybe only take away sMerit from those that dont use them in the first place).

He also might consider a "demerit" system for the future, however that is currently not integrated or planned.

You can ask your question here, if the thread doesn't have that question.