Topic: VOD- Here's a reply to your 'offer' (Read 1448 times)

That may be true, however my point is that there is a clear violation of *something* while the HBOGo accounts require some level of speculation before reaching the conclusion that something is being violated.

I would say that the negative trust would probably no be warranted if only the TOS is being broken and not the law.

Violating TOS is not a violation of criminal law.

I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

HBO guys are clearly saying not to change the password, not to create new profiles, so just shut up if you don't know what you are saying.
Also you could have easily returned the money to the buyer, you in my eyes are the biggest scammer ever for that transaction.

The people who sell HBOGo (etc.) accounts are not admitting to selling carded accounts. You are admitting to selling keys that go against the TOS.
The reason I found out he was a scammer was because he paid with a certain address, by the time he paid me it was too late

What I mean is that if the stolen fraud activities aren't stopped why should my legit MSDN shop be affected?


Should you have like, umm, not fucking sold the account to that guy :#

Well it is not 100% for sure known that the HBOgo (ect.) accounts are in fact stolen, although the chances of them being stolen are very high.

If you are saying that you are selling MSDN keys, then it is my understanding that you are essentially admitting that the keys are somewhat stolen.

I left negative feedback for an account that I sold that happened to be a scammer. In other words I left negative feedback for a scammer. I don't see how that could possibly be considered scamming. I did offer to have it be removed in the event that he repaid his victims, which he declined to do

I don't care what he does to others. I just want a clear action against everyone, all the starbucks, amazon and netflix, hbo, etc., account sellers. They are committing credit card fraud, which is far more criminal than MSDN keys.

You missed those selling stolen netflix HBO and other accounts. That's is clear cut illegal. Credit card fraud it is. Also selling accounts, which you do is risky too and prone to scamming. You yourself left negative feedback to one of the accounts you sold, isn't that scamming mister?

He left negative trust feedback with a few other sellers as well, so you're not alone.

I don't want Vod to miss my reply. If he want's to end MSDN sales, 90% of marketplace has to come down with these MSDN sales.

His point is that they keys will eventually become invalid. I guess you could somewhat equate this to confidence loans, in a sense that lenders are not complaining about getting their loans repaid, but a confidence loan scammer will eventually run away and scam.

I do understand your point about them not having any unhappy customers......maybe if they were to give more disclosure about the risks from buying from them then a neutral rating would probably be more appropriate
As I mentioned above if Microsoft can invalidate your copy of Excel (for example) once the MSDN keys get revoked then it would be more appropriate for the negative trust, if not then it is not appropriate.
I don't trade on here quite as much as you do, but I do trade on here a bit. In fact my S3 that I recently sold on here is on it's way to my buyer who was willing to pay me upfront. Plus I have traded well over a hundred accounts on here generally without issue, so I do understand the pressures of trading with others.

The difference between "normal" trading (as in trading things at a generally "fair" price or at what most would probably consider to be a market price) and what these people are doing is that it should be generally obvious to most that the seller is doing something they shouldn't be doing. When someone trades with you they will generally give you $100 and will get roughly $100 worth of something in return - if you were to scam them then they would get nothing - the risk/reward ratio is not good because if everything works out they still have the same amount of money worth of stuff as they started with but if they are scammed they lose (IMO I think the chances of you scamming is very low).

With these MSDN sellers (and the stolen Starbucks gift card sellers, and the amazon rebate services, and the ponzi operators, among others), their customers are getting a much better deal. Microsoft keys tend to cost hundreds of dollars while they are being sold on here for $10 or $15, that is in excess of 90% off. In other words in the event that these sellers follow through then they will get something they need for 90%+ off while if they are scammed then they only lose a small amount. They would need to get scammed at least 10 times before they would have been better off simply buying the keys directly from a retailer of directly from Microsoft. The risk/reward ratio is much better (although the chances of these people eventually scamming is much greater)

 

Please remind me, how is this related to the topic? Try arguing the points of the topic instead of resorting to character attacks. It is quite childish and is more telling of your resistance to discussing the topic on its merits.

@OP: Why did you start a new thread?

@TECSHARE: I understand how bad you feel when you were removed from DefaultTrust list. I found you are overreacting sometimes especially when there is something related to *Trust*. You are DefaultTrust depth 2(atleast to me) and for others, you are probably not in trust list or in depth 3.

I know it isn't nice, that's why I did it. Quickseller has to bring his nose into every matter, without any idea of what he is saying.

And VOD, always misuses his power. And this time he is not at all right. See my OP, all those things should be banned too. Why isn't someone going against those activities which involve credit card fraud? Have an answer?

His point is irrelevant. There are no customers complaining. What he is doing is NOT criminal or scamming. Anyone paying so little for a Windows key HAS TO know there is some kind of catch somewhere, yet still I don't see ANYONE complaining. Are we acting against future "scamming" here now? Where does it end? At what point does this community become exactly what it was built to escape from?

This guy COULD POTENTIALLY MAYBE be a scammer so lets treat him like one and just save some time!

Not that you care at all since you are not engaged in any kind of trading here, but a negative rating DOES IN FACT seriously affect people's ability to trade. Everyone is SO PARANOID about being ripped off here that even the slightest hint of something not being right people will go elsewhere. VOD's only value comes from the volume of people he can harass and label as scammers. This way, scammer or not, when he acts out of line and abuses the users here himself, he can just point to all the "service" he has done for this forum harassing people over non-issues, and magically his abuse is excusable!

Telling someone to shut up isn't very nice and will not help your trust rating.

IMO Vod sometimes misuses his power on the default list but most of the time, he's right. And I believe this time he is too.

Shut up

ehhh. I am not even sure why Vod is even offering to have your negative trust removed at all.

First of all, it would not make financial sense for the MSDN sellers to take him up on this offer considering that the value of their accounts is much less then what they would make by even making a few additional sales.

Secondly, the thirty day, no scammy behavior and I will remove your negative trust policy works best for the newbie loan scammers, not more established members. The established members should know better then to scam/try to scam. I would say that since these people have technically not caused their victims harm yet - it will only be once the keys are invalidated that their victims will loose out and their business will collapse.

My general policy on removing negative trust is that if someone attempted to commit a simple scam then negative trust will be removed after 30 days of no scam-like behavior, and active participation in the forums. If they have actually stolen money (smallish to medium amounts) from someone then negative trust once their victim is repaid (in order to give them an incentive to repay their victims). If they have stolen larger amounts then the negative trust stays indefinitely, however any dox would be removed if one was posted upon repayment of their victims.

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@TECSHARE - I do agree that Vod does have somewhat of a conflict of interest here however he does have somewhat of a point in that once Microsoft finds out about the person selling the keys that they will all become invalidated, which would generally be considered a scam in most people's eyes. I am not sure however, how exactly Microsoft will invalidate some of the keys; if Microsoft can in fact invalidate keys to something that is connected to the internet even if it is not getting any kind of product update then the negative trust would be appropriate and my above statement would apply; if however Microsoft cannot invalidate keys (and cannot cause any product to stop working immediately) then the negative trust is probably not appropriate.

Trust me when I say this, just because someone has negative trust form someone on the default trust list, it does not mean that people will take the warning that was given to them. I have left negative trust to dozens of ponzi's in the gambling section and people had still "invested" hundreds of BTC in those ponzis. Similar results took place when someone was selling stolen Starbucks gift cards that would go bad after 4 days.

What will probably happen in the future is that people will take the ratings that Vod leaves less seriously and the effect of his ratings will diminish if he leaves feedback that is not warranted/appropriate. As I said above, I am not sure if they are appropriate in this case or not, however regardless it will not stop people from buying from them

I am replying to an existing thread which is directly related to his behavior... why would I make another thread? If you don't like my post maybe you should make another thread about me not making another thread.

Don't be VOD's bitch, TECSHARE is bringing out legit points. These Green Trust misuses are spoiling the forums. Theymos read this.

Why are you spamming the scam accusation section with these? If you're not satisfied with vod's behaviour, just open a new thread yourself.

He spoiled our reputation and it is injust to us. We just want him to know the truth. And I can assure you he doesn't work for no Microsoft, he's just another momma's basement junkie trying to overcome his sucky life by his sadistic approach to others.

I don't see why you (or anyone else) should have to bow to extortion from VOD just because he is on the default trust list and happens to work with Microsoft. You are not committing a crime, and I don't see any customers complaining. VOD likes to pretend he is the self proclaimed commander of this forum. In reality his only authority comes from the fact he is on the default trust list and is willing to abuse it to force others to do what he decides.

I'll stop selling keys immediately, but everyone should do that, there should be no sale of MSDN admin accounts and invites too because those are created 'ill-legally'. Also those cracked netflix, hbo go, etc., accounts should not be sold too since they use other people's credit cards and boy oh oy that is ill-legal (see no air quotes -_-).
There are people selling carded iPhone account too, that should not occur too, ill-legal you see. Many people sell starbucks and other gift cards which are clearly carded and/or stolen, this should stop too. Also selling/trading private tracker invites is "ill-legal" according to tracker's T&C, so this should be banned too. Also selling accounts (BTCTalk ones) should not be allowed at all.
Hence I covered 90% of the marketplace activities.
Heck these are way more ill-legal than selling MSDN keys, which isn't ill-legal and is just frowned upon by Microsoft.
Also 1 month is a long time for something that is not scamming. Stop imposing your rules on everyone. Let the Moderators and other staff do it. You are just a jerk face trying to gain popularity and being a sadistic bitch for self satisfaction.
Regards