Voyager has filed for bankruptcy in NY court. Deposits there in serious risk.

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Quote from: Husires on July 18, 2022, 05:10:43 AM

It seems that they are trying to manage liquidity and may be able to survive if prices return to the rise and there is no further interest rate hike, but what will happen if the opposite happens?

Best they can do is to prolong their own downfall, and even if they managed with some miracle to recover nobody will trust them ever again with their money.
Strange thing is that so many people are trying to salvage sinking ship like Titanic, unless there are some hidden motives for doing this.

Quote from: DaveF on July 18, 2022, 05:37:17 AM

Call it USD or BTC or some other thing does not matter. They see a way to make money and are going to go for it and roll over whoever gets in their way.

I think that Voyager and other crypto lending platform invested a lot of customer money in some stupid shitcoin projects, and now everyone is wondering how could something like this happen.
There was a nice Simpsons gif joke with Voyager offering 3% earnings for investing Bitcoin... and now it's gone Cheesy

Speaking on this subject, I don't know if anyone heard to FlexUSD is now suing Roger Ver and they blame him for their collapse, and for not paying leverage positions.
https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/coinflex-is-suing-roger-ver-in-hkiac-over-84-million-deficit/

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Quote from: Husires on July 18, 2022, 05:10:43 AM

It seems that they are trying to manage liquidity and may be able to survive if prices return to the rise and there is no further interest rate hike, but what will happen if the opposite happens?

When you buy houses with the money got from tokens you're supposed to back them with and you spend millions on JPGs that will never be worth more than a few dollars there is no way back, no bullrun no nothing will save your ass. Instead of taking the small profits from coin appreciation they not only went on spending it but also took loans that were wasted, so there is nothing from which they can grow back, they are pennyless now!

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I've just seen the list of creditors to #3AC and noticed that
@zhusu
has filed a claim for $5 million. While being on the run, he has somehow found the time to diligently and ruthlessly fill out forms to pursue a claim against his own Fund.

That's a classic move, you "lend" your own company money in form of tokens you've got from the exact company as shares and then if everything goes boom you can still get your hands on real money, if not then you can write off one huge loss that was never there.

Quote

Other notable claimants are ~~~~ @BitGo

I think everyone that has some assets in their custody should start getting their money out of there, if they've started lending to these guys probably the rest of the funds are at risk too.

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Quote from: Husires on July 18, 2022, 05:10:43 AM

It seems that they are trying to manage liquidity and may be able to survive if prices return to the rise and there is no further interest rate hike, but what will happen if the opposite happens?

It's far too late for that. The fuse has been lit / the 1st domino has fallen / pick your metaphor.
This is what GS is good at, dealing with money & finances & stocks & other financial things. Call it USD or BTC or some other thing does not matter. They see a way to make money and are going to go for it and roll over whoever gets in their way.

Just due to their massive size they have bigger and better lawyers all over the world then anyone else being discussed here.
And in the end, that sadly matters more then just about every other thing.

-Dave

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Soldman Gachs disclosed that Zhu Su has filed a $5 million claim on 3AC's list of creditors

Quote

I've just seen the list of creditors to #3AC and noticed that
@zhusu
has filed a claim for $5 million. While being on the run, he has somehow found the time to diligently and ruthlessly fill out forms to pursue a claim against his own Fund.

https://twitter.com/DrSoldmanGachs/status/1548922054975848448

Three Arrows Capital's Su Zhu Looks to Sell $35M Singapore House

It seems that they are trying to manage liquidity and may be able to survive if prices return to the rise and there is no further interest rate hike, but what will happen if the opposite happens?

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Its what had been assumed that Elon is rinding ways not to pay huge for twitter acqusition. Even when he knew from the beginning that not all twitter users are real, he made it an excuse to decline. He did deposit a sum of money for an escrow which twitter will get no matter what but Elon will not pay 4O+ B for it. I think he will strike a new deal soon.

Similar with what Sam will do to Voyager, he will also find the balancesheet a leverage for the new deal.

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Quote from: bittraffic on July 10, 2022, 11:47:31 PM

Quote from: Darker45 on July 10, 2022, 11:22:11 PM

Quote from: dkbit98 on July 10, 2022, 02:39:08 PM

~snip~

Sam I think had already walked away from acquiring celsius due to the balancesheet hole of$2B. If he will be interested to Voyager or Blockfi also, he will try to find out whats behind and other reasons for these platforms going bankrupt.

Of course. He'll have to find out everything. He'll have to prove to himself that these failing companies are worth helping and saving and that they will eventually give him money. Otherwise, he'd better let them die. What's the point of saving a company that's designed to fail right from the start?

Quote

Don't they normally find faults to negotiate prices also?
And I mean Elon seem to be doing the same when he offered twitter and then suddenly backs away but I think behind close doors they are negotiating prices.

"Faults" may not be the right term for it but, of course, they have to find reasons to strike a cheaper deal. A company that's good and is doing good is expensive, or even not for sale. But a company that is good but is facing bankruptcy due to a severe bear market could be taken over easily and cheap. So these hard times could also be good times to some.

I don't know if this is the case with Elon backing out from buying Twitter. From what I've read it's more about the contentious issue of bots and fake accounts information which Twitter didn't provide and less about price negotiation.

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Quote from: Darker45 on July 10, 2022, 11:22:11 PM

Quote from: dkbit98 on July 10, 2022, 02:39:08 PM

Looks like Sam Bankman-Fried (FTX owner) and Almeida Research is trying to save Voyager and they extended $500 million line of credit to Voyager Digital.
Risky bailout move that could prolong shutdown of Voyager, and they did similar thing last month with giving BlockFi $250 million.
I know Sam earned a lot of money from crypto but I don't understand this move from him, unless this is some next level chess game.

It seems Sam's FTX and Alameda are in a complicated arrangement with Voyager. While Sam is giving hundreds of millions in cash and offered USDC and even Bitcoin credit lines to Voyager, Alameda has actually hundreds of millions in debt from Voyager. But it seems nothing could anymore prevent Voyager from falling down.

As to Sam's risky bailouts, he's been saying that he still has a few billions that could be used to help the crypto industry. But this must be more than plain help. He must be carefully studying which companies to bail out. And these companies must be good ones, currently struggling not because of themselves but largely because of the external market condition. Once the market recovers, they may also be a great source of revenue.

Sam I think had already walked away from acquiring celsius due to the balancesheet hole of$2B. If he will be interested to Voyager or Blockfi also, he will try to find out whats behind and other reasons for these platforms going bankrupt.

Don't they normally find faults to negotiate prices also?
And I mean Elon seem to be doing the same when he offered twitter and then suddenly backs away but I think behind close doors they are negotiating prices.

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Quote from: dkbit98 on July 10, 2022, 02:39:08 PM

Looks like Sam Bankman-Fried (FTX owner) and Almeida Research is trying to save Voyager and they extended $500 million line of credit to Voyager Digital.
Risky bailout move that could prolong shutdown of Voyager, and they did similar thing last month with giving BlockFi $250 million.
I know Sam earned a lot of money from crypto but I don't understand this move from him, unless this is some next level chess game.

It seems Sam's FTX and Alameda are in a complicated arrangement with Voyager. While Sam is giving hundreds of millions in cash and offered USDC and even Bitcoin credit lines to Voyager, Alameda has actually hundreds of millions in debt from Voyager. But it seems nothing could anymore prevent Voyager from falling down.

As to Sam's risky bailouts, he's been saying that he still has a few billions that could be used to help the crypto industry. But this must be more than plain help. He must be carefully studying which companies to bail out. And these companies must be good ones, currently struggling not because of themselves but largely because of the external market condition. Once the market recovers, they may also be a great source of revenue.

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You know what? Not to veer way off track here, but speaking of this Voyager debacle, it's really opened my eyes as to the usefulness of Youtube as a source of crypto news. Many of you probably have noticed that if you search for any hot crypto topic it's like you walked into a spammer orgy. I did a search for Voyager news, and I noticed that some Youtubers kind of followed a cookie-cutter formula for their vid descriptions and thumbnails. Bear with me:

And there were a couple of other patterns, too. I don't know what to believe when I watch these amateurs try to be newscasters, and I'd really like to know what the truth is with Voyager and what kind of impact it'll have if they collapse. I am strictly against defi and whatever Enron-like financial Rube Goldberg contraption categories that Voyager and related businesses fall into. You know, it's that whole "not your keys..." thing.

Think I'm just going to chill and read whatever I can find right here on the forum. At least it's not like sitting in a small room with someone screaming at the top of his lungs at you for 10-15 minutes.

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Looks like Sam Bankman-Fried (FTX owner) and Almeida Research is trying to save Voyager and they extended $500 million line of credit to Voyager Digital.
Risky bailout move that could prolong shutdown of Voyager, and they did similar thing last month with giving BlockFi $250 million.
I know Sam earned a lot of money from crypto but I don't understand this move from him, unless this is some next level chess game.

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From what i heard about the Voyager bankrapcy thing is that they declared chapter 11 bankrupcy which technically means that they still have a chance that the court (creditors) may accept their salvage plan (Basically what steps they're going to take to pay everyone back), And somehow everything can work out fine and they can resume normal bussines.

However if everything went tits up and the court declines the "Plan" then Voyager will have to declare chapter 7 bankrupcy which basically means they'll be forced to liquidate and sell everything to pay off their loans.

So there's still a chance that Voyager can come out of this mess and starts paying people back. How likely is this going to happen ? its up for speculations..

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Quote from: LeGaulois on July 06, 2022, 05:42:53 PM

I wonder who in Voyager got the crazy idea to lend all available money to Three Arrows Capital (I'm talking about the $350 million in stablecoin).
On the top of that, 3AC is filing for Chapter 15 protection and if accepted, Voyager won't see any dollar back from them.

Lending customer's money to someone with almost zero collateral... Great investment strategy Cheesy

I never understood why multi-billion companies, not only from crypto, banks, and investment funds, in every economic area known to man are throwing millions at the most stupid things, millions in advertising, millions wasted each month and they can't find a few tens of thousands of dollars to hire a company specialized in risk and have a serious report about the weaknesses of their business.

But probably in the crypto world at least most go by the saying get rich or die trying and risk it in order to get those huge returns they probably know down in their hearts those are way too risky to be true.

Quote from: hugeblack on July 07, 2022, 09:31:13 AM

Does anyone know the extent to which these services are exposed to cryptocurrency market, and are they forced to liquidate their currencies?
I mean, will we see more liquidity in the market?

Probably nobody, even if we somehow manage to get all their CEOs and board of directors together and have a meeting on it they won't be able to come up with certain numbers.

Quote from: hugeblack on July 07, 2022, 09:31:13 AM

Frankly, I was not following the wave of decentralized finance, but I did not think that many people had invested (Pump a lot of money) in this wave.

I thought the same but the numbers in money lost and the reactions on social media tell a different story, guess a lot saw those as a far less risky way to get a solid APY and as I mentioned before in topics like this, on paper everything should have been fine.
Probably a few billion at risk or already lost is an understatement for the current situation.

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Does anyone know the extent to which these services are exposed to cryptocurrency market, and are they forced to liquidate their currencies?
I mean, will we see more liquidity in the market?
Frankly, I was not following the wave of decentralized finance, but I did not think that many people had invested (Pump a lot of money) in this wave.

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I wonder who in Voyager got the crazy idea to lend all available money to Three Arrows Capital (I'm talking about the $350 million in stablecoin).
On the top of that, 3AC is filing for Chapter 15 protection and if accepted, Voyager won't see any dollar back from them.

Lending customer's money to someone with almost zero collateral... Great investment strategy Cheesy

People can't withdraw their money, a lot are crying on social medias

Quote

The proposed Plan of Reorganization ("Plan") would, upon implementation, resume account access and return value to customers. Under this Plan, which is subject to change given ongoing discussions with other parties, and requires Court approval, customers with crypto in their account(s) will receive in exchange a combination of the crypto in their account(s), proceeds from the 3AC recovery, common shares in the newly reorganized Company, and Voyager tokens. The plan contemplates an opportunity for customers to elect the proportion of common equity and crypto they will receive, subject to certain maximum thresholds.

Customers with USD deposits in their account(s) will receive access to those funds after a reconciliation and fraud prevention process is completed with Metropolitan Commercial Bank

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/voyager-digital-commences-financial-restructuring-process-to-maximize-value-for-all-stakeholders-301581177.html

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Quote from: tabas on July 06, 2022, 02:45:50 PM

Quote from: Coin_trader on July 06, 2022, 10:14:16 AM

This is an alarming news which might cause more FUD to the crypto market.

It will truly bring FUD

Do you guys even know what FUD means or is it like some sutra chanting for you?
FUD - Fear, uncertainity and doubt!

Where the hell is the uncertainty and doubt about this?
It's a damn FACT, Voyager has filed for bankruptcy, you have the damn filling just above in the first post, it's as clear as day, voyager is done for!
All of those companies dropping like flies from 3AC, Vauld, Babel kept on life support right now, with their own employees are fleeing and some of you say this is FUD?

Quote from: Coin_trader on July 06, 2022, 10:14:16 AM

I thought Celcius will be the one who will apply for this but I guess Celcius still have balls to stand on this crypto market dipshit.

Celsius not ~~Celcius~~ had the balls to take user funds hostage and rob them, that's all the balls they've had.

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Quote from: Coin_trader on July 06, 2022, 10:14:16 AM

This is an alarming news which might cause more FUD to the crypto market.

It will truly bring FUD to the market and for sure those content creators, news/media will add flavor to this news and will bring it only to their headlines.

Quote from: Husires on July 06, 2022, 10:03:06 AM

It doesn't sound reassuring as it may push more lending platforms to flood so it's best to withdraw your money from all platforms at the moment (if you haven't already)

Yup, there's no other way where this is going. Those that have deposits in most centralized platforms should withdraw their assets as we'll not know what will be the domino effect on this but it's better to be safe and we know what to do.

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It’s surprising to escalate the issue quickly and I never thought that they will give too earlier. But I won’t blame him on coming up to this kind of decision because it’s the only way to save some company to this bloodbath and increasing debt to there balance sheet. I thought Celcius will be the one who will apply for this but I guess Celcius still have balls to stand on this crypto market dipshit.

IIRC, This company is connected to 3AC which is earlier announced that they are experiencing same issue to Voyager. I agree to your opinion that this might the start for most of the DeFi company to have courage on filing there bankruptcy. This is an alarming news which might cause more FUD to the crypto market.

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Last Monday, Voyager issued a notice of default to beleaguered Singapore-based crypto hedge fund Three Arrows Capital (3AC), which had borrowed $675 million from Voyager in the form of 15,250 bitcoin and $350 million in stablecoin USDC.

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“While I strongly believe in this future, the prolonged volatility and contagion in the crypto markets over the past few months, and the default of Three Arrows Capital require us to take deliberate and decisive action now,” said Voyager CEO Stephen Ehrlich in a statement issued late Tuesday. “The chapter 11 process provides an efficient and equitable mechanism to maximize recovery."

Additionally, 3AC had reportedly placed an overleveraged bet on the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC) to arbitrage the difference between the value of the trust and bitcoin. GBTC shares have been trading at a discount since February 2021, which recently widened to approximately 30%, according to YCharts.

According to the filing (https://ru.scribd.com/document/581357118/Petition), Voyager’s estimated assets are between $1 billion and $10 billion, with between $1 billion and $10 billion in estimated liabilities.

Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ninabambysheva/2022/07/06/crypto-broker-voyager-digital-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy/

It doesn't sound reassuring as it may push more lending platforms to flood so it's best to withdraw your money from all platforms at the moment (if you haven't already)

Topic: Voyager has filed for bankruptcy in NY court. Deposits there in serious risk. (Read 204 times)