Topic: War will give reason to make different economics blocks east/west (Read 350 times)

While BRICS Plus gets stronger, that includes Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa with their new members, it does not tend to be totally isolated from the West. Instead, it would create alternative systems. BRICS today represents nearly half of the world's population and a full quarter of global trade and energy production.

That said, it is unlikely to cut off all communications and isolate the citizens from the rest of the world in today's interconnected world. Even China, known for its internet restrictions, does heavy international trade and development in technology. While the West and the East may be in some sort of competition, mutual dependency, especially in trade and technology, remains a key factor. The idea is not about shutting doors but rather about balancing influence.

The idea that the West will print money while China becomes increasingly more authoritarian in its drive for productivity is over simplistic. It is thus that economic giants manage to adapt to realities that might be emerging through technological innovation and shifting policies. Most likely, it will be cooperation amidst competition.

Wars are fought for various reasons and not only for money. Russia's attack on Ukraine is an example of this statement. It is more about politics and strengthening Putin's own position both within his own country and on the international stage. However, Putin clearly miscalculated with Ukraine and everything happened exactly the opposite of his wishes.

Having seen the atrocities committed by Russian troops in Ukraine against civilians, NATO countries, and especially the Baltic countries, have sharply increased their defense spending and are even changing their defense strategy in the event of a Russian invasion. If Estonia previously allowed Russian occupation troops to remain on its territory for up to ten days before the arrival of NATO allies, now, as they put it, they will not wait for a sledgehammer to hit their heads, but will launch a preemptive strike against Russian troop concentrations on Russian territory if there is only a threat of such an attack.

https://world.comments.ua/news/nato/napadenie-na-ukrainu-vse-perecherknulo-v-nato-ne-skryvayut-chto-gotovyatsya-k-voyne-s-rossiey-741872.amp

The two world wars were European wars where the colonizers were mainly fighting over more power and poured their fight into the rest of the world. It had nothing to do with the world being divided.

The New World Order with the different blocs is not about division either:
The problem was not globalization, the problem was the unipolar world where one regime was controlling everything and ran a dictatorship. Like using all international organizations such as UN, IMF, etc. as a weapon against other countries.

Globalization is changing but not in the way you think. There still will be "interdependence" but there won't be a single pole dictating everything, there will be multiple.

Have you counted how many wars have these "authoritarian" governments started in the past 80 years?
Have you also counted how many wars has NATO (read USA) has started in the same period?


Please do count those wars and see who is no-keeping peace.
BTW even in the previous World Order Europe meant nothing and in the New World Order Europe will become even weaker both thanks to US...

Do you seek for the world to be divided? Because it will only end badly, as we saw in the previous two world wars. Globalization does create a lot of upset, as it uproots jobs in some countries and moves them over to cheaper countries, however those jobs should be replaceable with better jobs in reality. It is clear that authoritarian governments like China and Russia have leaders who are bit unhinged, ready to plunge the world into war for the sake of their own vanity, but every day we walk a fine balance of stifling the worst of their atrocities and diminishing their war mongering abilities. Russia is weak and getting weaker, but China / Europe and the USA will be defining how the world keeps the peace in the future - we should hope the leaders all work out ways to keep the peace.

We are already seeing how, as a result of the war that Russia unleashed by attacking Ukraine, two opposing blocs are being formed, but not economic, but primarily political. This is the so-called axis of evil - Russia, Iran, North Korea and presumably China, which does not directly express its intentions and its officials always express it very vaguely. On the other hand, Ukraine, as a victim of a military attack, is supported by the United States and European countries, as well as to varying degrees by 50 other states. But the solution to military issues is always intertwined with economic issues.
But in the world, besides this war, there are other smaller wars and zones of military conflicts with their own various interests. As a result, interests and contradictions intensify and it becomes very difficult to understand the cycle of all the events taking place.

They always choose the worst but easiest way which is to print money. Specially in democracies where the government is only "renting" the office for a short time and is not responsible for the long term damage.
They print the money today to solve their own problems today and postpone the negative consequences, consequences which will be faced by the next team in the office!

And even worse than that, "government printing money (creating debt)" means nothing else but citizens amassing more debt. There is this semantic disconnect that a lot of people don't get who don't understand how many is created and how it works. When the "government" prints money, for the individual it is as if every neighbor has a money printer but that one person does not. The "government" then takes the money back from its citizens via very sophisticated ways. It begins with cancelling little support programs in medical care, increase the kinds of taxes that nobody really pays attention to, raise the fees in state-owned institutions like museums, swimming pools, public toilets, etc.

If you asked someone "hey did you know that all your neighbors have a money printing machine in their basement and this is why the bakery is more expensive now as the people have more money to pay for the products", everyone would want a money printing machine, too. Intuitively it would be like that, but it's like the tragedy of the commons where people would print themselves to financial obliteration. The idea is that a government knows better when to print and when not, but I guess we agree that this idea seems to be going the wrong way. 

I wouldn't call debt "not wrong", it is bad whether it is an individual taking a loan from a bank or a government printing money (creating debt). Debt is created due to desperation and the fact that they can not think of any other way to fill the gap in the budget. Sometimes it is inevitable but it still is bad because it only kicks the problem down the line instead of fixing it.

Taking on debt to achieve progress is not wrong as long as the designation is clear enough and has a good impact on the country, but that is not what we are worried about. Rather, it is when a country cannot pay off its debts on time and this actually worsens the development of its own country in the long term. So, in any case, debt must be clear about what it is intended for and what it will be used for so that there are better results for those who take out the debt, including for the country, of course.

Due to the military attack of Putin's Russia on Ukraine and receiving a worthy rebuff from both Ukrainians and civilized countries, the political and economic power of Russia is greatly declining, and Russia itself may completely turn into a rogue country with the loss of most of its colonies, which it mercilessly exploited in over the last century.

In this regard, states will be forced to unite into various economic, political and military blocs, taking into account the new reality occurring in and around Russia.
In the meantime, the world is taking political and economic steps that should lead to Russia’s capitulation and its punishment for its aggressive war against Ukraine.

Thus, on June 25, the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) announced a decision on the merits of the first interstate case in the ECHR “Ukraine v. Russia” regarding Crimea, recognizing the existence of systematic violations of human rights in the occupied territories. The peninsula has been under the control of the aggressor country since 2014.

In addition, on June 25, the International Criminal Court issued arrest warrants for former Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and the head of the Russian General Staff Valery Gerasimov in connection with attacks on the energy infrastructure of Ukraine and harm to civilians and relate to events that took place from October 10, 2022 to at least March 9, 2023, as well as for war crimes of causing excessive incidental harm to civilians or damage to civilian objects. They are also suspected of crimes against humanity “in the form of inhumane acts.”

On June 26, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) adopted a resolution on the creation of a special tribunal for Russia. It is proposed to create it on the basis of an agreement between the Council of Europe and Ukraine.

On June 29, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), uniting 53 states, adopted a resolution recognizing the actions of the military-political leadership of Russia and its Armed Forces as genocide of the Ukrainian people. In addition, the need to decolonize the aggressor country is pointed out.

It is not difficult to imagine what will happen to the Russian economy when it is obliged to compensate for the damage caused to Ukraine by military actions over the past ten years.

Wars are fought because of money and nothing else, that is why to incite a war against someone else is to "wage" one.

There's no doubt that some country's going to profit off of this war between countries, and I'm seeing Russia and the communist party of China either becoming the biggest gainers or losers of this war. China's eyeing the West Philippine Sea for its resources and irreplaceable vantage position that would hold value when a war inevitably breaks. Russia has been taking a lot of Ls even from strategically weaker countries like Ukraine but you can't count them out. The US is no doubt looking for ways to find oil in the equation and earn money in the process while also annexing territories which is one thing they are good at except putting their nose where it doesn't belong.

Reading this reminded me of the adage that a common farmer is richer than who has a lot of money stacked in the bank because you can only get the food to eat if the farmer decides to sell for you and if he doesn't you'll die on starvation.
So I agree with you OP that critical matters such as crisis can make give reasons to attempt economic predictions. That's if you really need those basic and essential oils things to hedge defences and sustainabilities.

Basically, US is still the number 1 power in the world and they have held this position for nearly 105 years since World War II, and what they are doing is finding ways to maintain their position against opponents like China. They do not see Japan as a rival because Japan is their close Asian ally and depends on them militarily.

As for debt to the Government, as you said, that is just the Government's strategy in balancing and promoting the domestic economy. In addition, I think it is a binding strategy of great powers towards other countries, and here it can be said that the US. The US always tries to make other countries indebted and dependent on them. As for America's public debt, I think those are just numbers because they are still the ones holding the world's money printing machine, they have more than enough power to pay off debt by printing money and exporting inflation to the world. 

By the way, do you have any proof that India is debt free?

india is not totally debt free but their debt is considered to be in the safe zone as their gdp is progressly increasing over time

india used to be a third world country but is now considered to be a developing one. debts are okay as long as a country can pay it off ad can use it for the betterment of their country

Op, I think USA want to be strong from any country of the World So USA did attack on  Japan because Japan were progressing and USA could see if any country go ahead from USA . USA country is Dollar and USA is controlling all the World and if you talk about debt on USA government then I will tell you ,every government take debt and Thay is necessary for country growth but I know India is is super Economic power in east and they have no debt to pay but mostly countries are facing debt problem. But debt is due government bad strategies and corruption of politicians and when politicians will not do corruption,the country will stand on its feet but it is very difficult for every country.

Appearances are very deceiving. Moreover, Putin’s Russia is trying its best to pretend that everything is just fine in its economy. Russia has now put its economy on a war footing. Business is subject to additional, including one-time, taxes to continue waging war with Ukraine. Enterprises that can manufacture dual-use products receive binding orders for military products. But this is a hypertrophied economy. Its products are destined for further destruction in war without any benefit to the country's economy as a whole. At the same time, GDP is practically not growing.

As for the development of technologies for warfare, Russian weapons in this war showed precisely their ineffectiveness compared to similar Western weapons. Its vaunted Iskanders, Daggers and Onyxes are being shot down, and the “unparalleled” S-300 and S-400 air defense systems now in the territory of occupied Crimea cannot even defend themselves.

Yes, in Russia, due to the large supply of human resources and large territory, there is a margin of safety. But it is inexorably quickly exhausted, as are her financial capabilities. The National Welfare Fund, which was created, among other things, to fuel the war, is catastrophically declining. Almost all social projects are suspended. The situation is aggravated by the fact that Russia will not be able to quickly get out of its steep decline in the economy even if all sanctions are lifted from it, and they will not be lifted until Russia pays reparations to Ukraine. At the last G-7 summit, it was recognized that Russia must already compensate Ukraine for damages of 468 billion dollars, and this damage continues to increase. Therefore, Russia will emerge from this war clearly very weakened and practically poor.

That is what others are saying that the OP lacks in knowledge about this but others are suggesting that he must do a proper research first. I guess that still works fine? Although indeed that we can feel and express it better if we experience it ourselves for real.

All of us can have a risky situation and then there are times that we will need to choose a path but it's hard to decide. Some are like that crazy or greedy and they think they can always get what they want but they are wrong. They are only making their life more miserable when they do what they are planning. That's also crazy if you owe someone but at the same time you are the ones who are more angry at them but it happens even locally.

I don't understand the real message the OP is creating in this space, when actually these user topics are sort of picked up from many different sources and then created a mess.

Anyway, I will express that the view on economic blocs, the world situation is becoming complicated with the formation of separate economic blocs and the potential consequences and it is important to be aware understand these trends and their impact on our lives. I haven't been able to travel to and experience too many cultures in some countries, but through friends and world news, I also feel that perhaps OP is misunderstanding some things that work in the East, if you study the economic history from the first world war to the present to get a feel for what they have achieved, as well as look back at the western extreme where cultures show signs of slowing down or recession.

If by "war" you mean armed conflict then I have to tell you that it is only the last and smallest reason for the multipolar world. The first and the most significant reason is that for a very short time (20 to 30 years) the world has been a unipolar world and this is the first in human history as far as I can tell.

The problem was that this only power pole (ie. USA) abused the hell out of all its powers as much as they could! They also created a lot of monopolies in the world that turned it into a dictatorship as well.
That's what forced the world to change that [dis]order and establish a New World Order where once again we have a multipolar world with multiple power blocs (not just economic blocs).

These blocs already existed but Putin isn't going to last much longer. He's becoming an old and frail man who will eventually fall like all the other dictators before him. The Ukraine war is a last desperate attempt to prove that Russia could still bully other countries into submission but it is failing miserably. China can see how this will end and is just trying to milk Russia for every economic advantage it can get - while also selling them goods to keep this war going. Globalization is actually a great thing because it helps to stop the massive global wars that we saw in the past. China is currently in a rather precarious position and the leadership does not want to knock their economy by rocking the boat too much.

I think thats not the right statement that war will give rise to blocks but it should be that even the cold war have risen some blocks that can be seen clearly and those who have not seen it I don't think they have the eyes to see the future of the world.

China and Russia are the two biggest super powers now. America is only trying to resist because a lion even after brusies fight a little. Israel have destroyed America in terms of politics and now it's the end.

It takes a man who has been to both sides to understand this. Especially if the way of life is at risk and he is at a crossroads. The man would rather burn the world to ashes if he is not in charge of the world.

Well, when a country is not willing to pay thier debt, they'd rather want the country they took a loan from to be gone. That's basically how they would want things to happen but if that's not happening I guess they would have to take action like War. But before the war, there will be a lot of turmoil. Its happening already.

Your comment is very reasonable and it gave me a new perspective about how the world will be in the next few years. The war in Ukraine has really divided the world into two blocks, and we might end up seeing the manifestation of these divisions in the future. Nations like South Africa that is known as pro-west have decided to support Russia. 

But I want to add that the war between Israel and Hamas is gradually shaking international alliances. We are seeing countries like Spain, Ireland, and Norway recognizing Palestine's statehood regardless of the anti-statehood position of some Western world powers.

I am afraid I don't share the same thought that Russia will become weaker after this war. This war has made the Russian state advance its military technologically. The Russian state start the production of many sophisticated weapons through the assistance of their allies. Economically the country is not also doing badly. So I don't know where the weakness will come except Putin is removed as president.

I can't say I agree with everything the op is saying, but I agree that the tensions are rising, particularly between countries that support democracy and those that are more autocratic. It's not simply East vs West, and people have been talking more and more about the Global South and North, too.
And while China has deep economic ties with Western countries, those ties don't translate into political improvements and particularly into human rights improvements. But I believe we need to look for common ground, at least a minimum common basis upon which we can agree.

Russia's war against Ukraine has indeed led to a regrouping and aggravation of the situation between various blocs of states. First of all, these are countries that supply weapons to Russia - Iran, North Korea and partly China, and on the other hand - more than 50 countries that support the defense of Ukraine from Russian aggression. The outcome of this war will determine what the format of global security in the world will be in the future.

However, we can say with confidence that Russia will come out of this war weakened, and many nations and nationalities that are now being held within Russia by force will certainly take advantage of this, and we will soon, with a high degree of probability, be able to observe how Russia will disintegrate into many separate republics.

I think that this is all an exaggeration or at least for now.

I can see tensions growing between different countries but some countries from the east have partnered up with some countries from the west. I do not know if that is good or bad as you know no matter what happens or no matter what conflict arises, they will be both helping each other.

The growing tensions could lead to restrictions and increase of smuggling and other illegal things if the government is too strict.

Every country needs to print money as a % is lost, destroyed, burned, painted each year.
Its obvious that at the occasion they print more. But in case of the US, the $ is currency to 11 countries.

you don't know how the orientals live, do you?
children even live with their parents even when they are married already. just look at the culture of India where 3-4 generations still live in a compound because of family ties. you could say they enslave their own in the guise of respecting the elders but seems right for us since it's the same as helping each other. when the kids grow responsibly, their kids serve them as well.

when a country is in debt trouble. colonization starts to make sense in their minds whether in Eastern or Western countries. it's the reason why in ancient times slavery was common.

Hmm it's don't really make a lot of sense, honestly. First, you say that the east makes its people work hard so that they can become productive and create a lot of stuff that they can sell, and the west buys those products from the east because they need them, and then you say that the west is the one that will print more paper, what does that mean? By printing, do you mean literal printing or do you mean earning money? I'm confused.

If you mean they are printing more money to buy more products and that is making their currencies lose value over time then you are right. Any country that keeps printing more money will keep going deeper in inflation and finally reach hyperinflation if they can't control it at the end.

We refer to all the people who indebted themselves voluntarily.
I don't take credits except if there is a business venture with several business partners.
You have choices. You are not a sheep,
You can choose to have debt and become a sheep, that's up to you.

You are newbie here and stop spam here
Unreadble...well learn emglish dude we use emglish here

he doesn't believe anything, he's just spamming shit.
look at all the threads this dude creates: unreadable walls of texts that no one comprehends

Well if you believe all that you say why live. It would be a more hellish world than we have now.

BTW the world is pretty hellish as it is.

War Will give reasons to create different economic blocks.
But west also need products of East so they will buy it anyways.
But war most likely is the tighting reason for china and russia the stronger hand for their own citizens.
China and others brics can go far as to start control internet and stop communication with west or people in the east some people can choose the side west or East.
Like the blackrock said it's a end of globalisation.
So countries like china Will be more strong over their people so younger ones don't see how west lives no access to info older ones knows all ready so now there is plan to isolate parents from kids so the goverment can teach their kids things how to be productive.
It's not secret that west has a lot money and have bought from china a lot things and china have now a lot dollars.
Let's be focus on that matter even world richest ones don't care about numbers of money they know that will have that numbers anyways ...what the focus is that productions and productivity so greatest economical value is work but nobody don't want to do that so countries like china Will place strict rules make slaves working and west is buying
My point is that more and more wealthy people will be in west who all need a lot products it means east must work harder that's the reality and next step will be to divide people so some people will not have even ideas how the rest of the world lives and that will create very strong work culture and west can keep printing more paper.
We the Western people are slaves also but not work slaves we are just debt slaves of debt what will be never paid we pay just something and take new debt the old debt not paid but still our life don't change much inflation goes up we just borrow more to live because money not problem because it's not valueble as work we just borrow money to not working
Remember west only buying nothing else