Wow even BlueMeanie got in on this one.
OP was a smart man.
Topic: Warning regarding Moolah.io escrow (Read 4173 times)
I came back from a vacation to read all about moolah's CEO. Frankly it was a given conclusion once you see his statements. I am not sure why people believe anyone who sweet talks to you on this forum is some kind of a saint.
Another scam, filled with the same-old shitty excuses. Not even worth reading the entire drama.
looks like you nailed it!! Ryan Gentle next stop bumville prison for fag scammmers
Bump
Alex Green aka Moolah still holding Syscoin escrow hostage
When will the fat fuck understand that the coins are not his?
Warning for anyone thinking of buying into Moolah protected IPOS:
1. He can(and will) change terms whenever it suits him, because apparently lying fat fucks think they can do that without repercussion.
2. Eventhough the terms obviously state that a refund is in place, he will keep your bitcoins because he's a scammer
conclusion: Don't use moolah escrow, it's better with nothing at all because then the he can't steal the escrowed coins.
It's happend once, it will happen again.
Why dint you sell the coins when the price got restored to some sanity after the first dump. I did as soon as I read about moolah's 2nd round decision and got out of the syscoin thread. I dint want to bang my head against morons who are more concerned about protecting their price or keep shouting "FUD". I lost some %age points in transferring the coins but I was happy to get rid of the shitcoin. Alex Green aka Moolah still holding Syscoin escrow hostage
When will the fat fuck understand that the coins are not his?
Warning for anyone thinking of buying into Moolah protected IPOS:
1. He can(and will) change terms whenever it suits him, because apparently lying fat fucks think they can do that without repercussion.
2. Eventhough the terms obviously state that a refund is in place, he will keep your bitcoins because he's a scammer
conclusion: Don't use moolah escrow, it's better with nothing at all because then the he can't steal the escrowed coins.
It's happend once, it will happen again.
IPO = scam .
Bump
Alex Green aka Moolah still holding Syscoin escrow hostage
When will the fat fuck understand that the coins are not his?
Warning for anyone thinking of buying into Moolah protected IPOS:
1. He can(and will) change terms whenever it suits him, because apparently lying fat fucks think they can do that without repercussion.
2. Eventhough the terms obviously state that a refund is in place, he will keep your bitcoins because he's a scammer
conclusion: Don't use moolah escrow, it's better with nothing at all because then the he can't steal the escrowed coins.
It's happend once, it will happen again.
Alex Green aka Moolah still holding Syscoin escrow hostage
When will the fat fuck understand that the coins are not his?
Warning for anyone thinking of buying into Moolah protected IPOS:
1. He can(and will) change terms whenever it suits him, because apparently lying fat fucks think they can do that without repercussion.
2. Eventhough the terms obviously state that a refund is in place, he will keep your bitcoins because he's a scammer
conclusion: Don't use moolah escrow, it's better with nothing at all because then the he can't steal the escrowed coins.
It's happend once, it will happen again.
So you are saying that Mintpal could be another small GOX very soon ?
What I am saying is they cant be trusted when it comes to customer's money, as it is clear from their handling of escrow.I don't have any info regarding their financial status so saying they will be the next GOX will be difficult for me. The reddit post is an old one and just shows they were scrutinized (or rather accused of being shady) early on too.
Here's the new gem from moolah:
So now we went from inspection period to review period. Given the statement from the above post and this, they never ever wanted to refund people. While this is understandable from an operations perspective, this should have been made clearer to people before buying the code or spouting the BS in the first post.
This guy has already been accused of being shady:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/24c8ho/request_proof_that_moolahio_is_a_legitimate/
So whats happening is not new. Still with this I think Mintpal might not be a good exchange to do business.
We have now reached the deadline for the ultimatum we previously issued to the Syscoin team, and while we are entering in to a review period; we have made the following preliminary decision (that is subject to change).
Our preliminary decision is that we will not be refunding the coin, but with the agreement of the Syscoin development team, will be changing release and development schedules moving forward. This decision will either be confirmed (or rejected and modified) publicly at 6PM GMT on Tuesday 26th August, 2014. While we could make the decision in full now (which would be to not refund), this review period will also include us engaging with various members of the community, over the best course of action to take. Please do not scream FUD at us, engage with us constructively.
While the launch of the coin was fraught with issues, the coin still launched. It worked at first, albeit erratically - and before the blockchain and daemon encountered severe issues, was in a usable state. This was not the case for everybody, but it was the case for many. At this stage, because initial obligations were met, we moved in to the inspection period (originally intended to last 72 hours). During this period, the coin encountered a number of major issues and became non-usable very rapidly.
As a result of this, and general public opinion, we issued a deadline-based ultimatum to the Syscoin team in regards to steps that need to be taken in order to ensure that funds would be released. If they took no action or made no progress, then they wouldn't be seeing a single satoshi. If they made good progress, we would re-review. We are now at the end of the ultimatum window, and we have made an initial judgement based on what the developers of the coin have done, and what they are continuing to do.
However, we are not comfortable to release the funds in full to the developers at this stage, and have put the following agreement to the Syscoin team. We are putting, and will be putting our own resources on the line in order to help protect the supporters of the coin, and encourage general adoption of this. I personally have faith in this coin, despite the abysmal launch - though this did not play a part in my decision.
Clause 1
Staggered release of funds.
The escrowed funds will not be released in full. They will be released in 6 monthly payments. The first payment will be for 250 BTC once this agreement is made formal, and then there will be an additional 200 BTC released each month for the next five months. At the end of this period, the Syscoin accrued during the early buy walls, will also be released. Release each month will be subject to the developers actively working on the coin, and making good progress in any necessary areas (to be determined on a monthly basis).
Clause 2
Moolah to support developers.
Moopay LTD will provide the Syscoin development team with access to our team of developers, for assistance with development issues, for a period of 6 months. Help will be given on a best-effort basis, with priority help granted for urgent issues.
Clause 3
Moolah to guarantee continued development.
If the developers decide to bail in full, and abandon development of the coin before this agreement is up; then Moopay LTD will supply a minimum of 3 developers to continue work on the coin - until the end of the agreement window. Moopay LTD will then continue to supply developers until adequate external contributors can be found. Moopay LTD will guarantee priority 24/7 response to urgent issues, and best-effort response to all other cases. This includes fixing broken services, the QT wallet, and blockchain issues. We will also seek to expand upon the coin when there are no issues. Moopay LTD will also always make a developer available for urgent issues, regardless of contributor state, for a minimum of 18 months from the time this agreement is made formal.
Our (now expanded) development team has experiencing in working for Microsoft, Citigroup, Telefonica and more - and each and every member has substantial experience in crypto development (including daemon and reference client work).
Our preliminary decision is that we will not be refunding the coin, but with the agreement of the Syscoin development team, will be changing release and development schedules moving forward. This decision will either be confirmed (or rejected and modified) publicly at 6PM GMT on Tuesday 26th August, 2014. While we could make the decision in full now (which would be to not refund), this review period will also include us engaging with various members of the community, over the best course of action to take. Please do not scream FUD at us, engage with us constructively.
While the launch of the coin was fraught with issues, the coin still launched. It worked at first, albeit erratically - and before the blockchain and daemon encountered severe issues, was in a usable state. This was not the case for everybody, but it was the case for many. At this stage, because initial obligations were met, we moved in to the inspection period (originally intended to last 72 hours). During this period, the coin encountered a number of major issues and became non-usable very rapidly.
As a result of this, and general public opinion, we issued a deadline-based ultimatum to the Syscoin team in regards to steps that need to be taken in order to ensure that funds would be released. If they took no action or made no progress, then they wouldn't be seeing a single satoshi. If they made good progress, we would re-review. We are now at the end of the ultimatum window, and we have made an initial judgement based on what the developers of the coin have done, and what they are continuing to do.
However, we are not comfortable to release the funds in full to the developers at this stage, and have put the following agreement to the Syscoin team. We are putting, and will be putting our own resources on the line in order to help protect the supporters of the coin, and encourage general adoption of this. I personally have faith in this coin, despite the abysmal launch - though this did not play a part in my decision.
Clause 1
Staggered release of funds.
The escrowed funds will not be released in full. They will be released in 6 monthly payments. The first payment will be for 250 BTC once this agreement is made formal, and then there will be an additional 200 BTC released each month for the next five months. At the end of this period, the Syscoin accrued during the early buy walls, will also be released. Release each month will be subject to the developers actively working on the coin, and making good progress in any necessary areas (to be determined on a monthly basis).
Clause 2
Moolah to support developers.
Moopay LTD will provide the Syscoin development team with access to our team of developers, for assistance with development issues, for a period of 6 months. Help will be given on a best-effort basis, with priority help granted for urgent issues.
Clause 3
Moolah to guarantee continued development.
If the developers decide to bail in full, and abandon development of the coin before this agreement is up; then Moopay LTD will supply a minimum of 3 developers to continue work on the coin - until the end of the agreement window. Moopay LTD will then continue to supply developers until adequate external contributors can be found. Moopay LTD will guarantee priority 24/7 response to urgent issues, and best-effort response to all other cases. This includes fixing broken services, the QT wallet, and blockchain issues. We will also seek to expand upon the coin when there are no issues. Moopay LTD will also always make a developer available for urgent issues, regardless of contributor state, for a minimum of 18 months from the time this agreement is made formal.
Our (now expanded) development team has experiencing in working for Microsoft, Citigroup, Telefonica and more - and each and every member has substantial experience in crypto development (including daemon and reference client work).
So now we went from inspection period to review period. Given the statement from the above post and this, they never ever wanted to refund people. While this is understandable from an operations perspective, this should have been made clearer to people before buying the code or spouting the BS in the first post.
This guy has already been accused of being shady:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/24c8ho/request_proof_that_moolahio_is_a_legitimate/
So whats happening is not new. Still with this I think Mintpal might not be a good exchange to do business.
While I have sold my coins, thankfully at IPO prices moolah's fuck up and totally one sided view of escrow keeps piling up:
If we decide not to refund, the escrow will be released in a series of staggered phases to ensure continued development. We are also considering contributing an experienced developer to the team temporarily to help them with minor issues.
While I am sure there will be some damage, we cannot breach our contract and the terms stipulated.
Was this series of staggered phases specified in the initial terms? Where?
After all, you can't violate your initial terms.
We can by mutual agreement, this is true of any contract.
It's pretty clear you don't have the "mutual agreement" of the parties that gave you the funds to hold in escrow.
Or are they just irrelevant in your mind?
Changes to reasons to withhold funds, would require public involvement.
Changes to how those funds are released (to be more restrictive), if approved, only requires the approval of ourselves and the Syscoin team.
While first he gave them 48hrs to correct it, now he is starting to talk about releasing the money - staggered or not. This as can be read from the last post can be done with moolah and Syscoin's glove-in-hand talks. So much for public confidence.
Looks like Moolah has already made its decision, and so has the market.
These so-called "devs" will abandon the coin soon after the escrow is released to them.
And, even if they don't, they're incompetent and they're not professional C++ developers or effective project managers, for that matter.
The only hope for SYS as far as market confidence is new management with hard-core development expertise and street cred.
I disagree with the Moolah CEO - I think the opportunity cost and reputational damage will be more severe than you expect. You think you would've learned from Mintpal.
These so-called "devs" will abandon the coin soon after the escrow is released to them.
And, even if they don't, they're incompetent and they're not professional C++ developers or effective project managers, for that matter.
The only hope for SYS as far as market confidence is new management with hard-core development expertise and street cred.
I disagree with the Moolah CEO - I think the opportunity cost and reputational damage will be more severe than you expect. You think you would've learned from Mintpal.
If we decide not to refund, the escrow will be released in a series of staggered phases to ensure continued development. We are also considering contributing an experienced developer to the team temporarily to help them with minor issues.
While I am sure there will be some damage, we cannot breach our contract and the terms stipulated.
Was this series of staggered phases specified in the initial terms? Where?
After all, you can't violate your initial terms.
We can by mutual agreement, this is true of any contract.
It's pretty clear you don't have the "mutual agreement" of the parties that gave you the funds to hold in escrow.
Or are they just irrelevant in your mind?
Changes to reasons to withhold funds, would require public involvement.
Changes to how those funds are released (to be more restrictive), if approved, only requires the approval of ourselves and the Syscoin team.
While first he gave them 48hrs to correct it, now he is starting to talk about releasing the money - staggered or not. This as can be read from the last post can be done with moolah and Syscoin's glove-in-hand talks. So much for public confidence.
I know many guys who have invested in the syscoin IPO. It has been a disaster of a launch and I had patiently waited for the dev to release a fix 24hrs after the launch. There has been none. But this conversation with moolah.io as an escrower is eye opening, I would be wary of anyone using their services:
Any escrow process has a 3rd party that will arbitrarily decide the final outcome of the funds. That is our role in this scenario, we are the 3rd party with that power. That is where our discretion comes from, and based on general public sentiment across a wide range of social media; people seem very happy with this. That is the point of us. We make the final decision. If anything, 4 days is too short - but due to community outcry, this is the timeframe we are offering.
To be frank, if we were to stick to normal escrow terms - they would get 10 days. We are offering them 48 hours in light of what has happened so far, and their ongoing attempts to resolve these issues. We are not favoring anybody however, so please refrain from spreading false and inaccurate information.
Now this is getting tiring. I praise you actually not pulling the trigger and instead question me for spreading false information?
Lets do this the third time again with the frustration which has been part of this coin:
Where in the T&C does it mention 2-4-10 days of escrow mentioned in the T&C. A simple section number so and so would have sufficed. Given that you cant answer this straight up, I am sure there is no mention of it. Is there? Just pulling numbers out of your ass.
So stop with the bullshit about normal escrow terms. It is not like an unwritten samurai code which is followed but not written.
Our terms of service in relation to escrow services are not a matter of public record, they are done on a case by case basis with each party we enter in to an agreement with.
We decided on an arbitration window of 96 hours, in order to give the team to fix issues that popped up at launch in relation to the forking, etc. The original planned timeframe was 7 days, after discussions with the Syscoin team. We have reduced this window by exercising our right to do so.
This is our final say on this matter.
Let me get this straight. So what you are saying is if I were to ask you to escrow a deal for me to setup an ICO, you wouldn't share the T&C with all parties concerned? Specially if it concerns the general public? Well to that I can only say WOW!!! So there is no trust when it comes to general public buying anything from you, is there?
You really have a law degree or just making shit up? I don't believe there is any law which will support what you just said - escrow details not being shared with all parties.
GOD and here I was bashing danospehere alone. You guys are doing a great job. I hope no one even thinks of escrowing (or rather screwing others with you).
@Others - Read above and then sell if you are hoping any kind of fair arbitration from moolah. I am sure if things don't work out in 48hrs, they are going to pull another condition out of their "international arbitration" ass.
Any escrow deal includes a mediation and arbitration period. We are currently in that period.
Our conditions in this window are final, there are no more extensions. Either they deliver, or we refund. It is that simple. That is a matter of public record. Investors can rest happy that no matter what happens, they will get back ICO value for their coins in the event of total failure.
And thats just your word isnt it? Cause you have failed to mention and T&C which allows this and now all you can offer is words about the 48hrs window. Sorry but given the way this conversation has gone, I have lost all faith in you and this project. I am just waiting for the wallet to work so that I can get it over with.
Any escrow process has a 3rd party that will arbitrarily decide the final outcome of the funds. That is our role in this scenario, we are the 3rd party with that power. That is where our discretion comes from, and based on general public sentiment across a wide range of social media; people seem very happy with this. That is the point of us. We make the final decision. If anything, 4 days is too short - but due to community outcry, this is the timeframe we are offering.
To be frank, if we were to stick to normal escrow terms - they would get 10 days. We are offering them 48 hours in light of what has happened so far, and their ongoing attempts to resolve these issues. We are not favoring anybody however, so please refrain from spreading false and inaccurate information.
Lets do this the third time again with the frustration which has been part of this coin:
Where in the T&C does it mention 2-4-10 days of escrow mentioned in the T&C. A simple section number so and so would have sufficed. Given that you cant answer this straight up, I am sure there is no mention of it. Is there? Just pulling numbers out of your ass.
So stop with the bullshit about normal escrow terms. It is not like an unwritten samurai code which is followed but not written.
Our terms of service in relation to escrow services are not a matter of public record, they are done on a case by case basis with each party we enter in to an agreement with.
We decided on an arbitration window of 96 hours, in order to give the team to fix issues that popped up at launch in relation to the forking, etc. The original planned timeframe was 7 days, after discussions with the Syscoin team. We have reduced this window by exercising our right to do so.
This is our final say on this matter.
You really have a law degree or just making shit up? I don't believe there is any law which will support what you just said - escrow details not being shared with all parties.
GOD and here I was bashing danospehere alone. You guys are doing a great job. I hope no one even thinks of escrowing (or rather screwing others with you).
@Others - Read above and then sell if you are hoping any kind of fair arbitration from moolah. I am sure if things don't work out in 48hrs, they are going to pull another condition out of their "international arbitration" ass.
Any escrow deal includes a mediation and arbitration period. We are currently in that period.
Our conditions in this window are final, there are no more extensions. Either they deliver, or we refund. It is that simple. That is a matter of public record. Investors can rest happy that no matter what happens, they will get back ICO value for their coins in the event of total failure.
I think its worth to note that they themselves say: "Our terms of service in relation to escrow services are not a matter of public record, they are done on a case by case basis with each party we enter in to an agreement with." Which effectively means if you are going to buy any ICO with them, you could be walking into a trap cause they will not share the escrow details with you. Terms of escrow on c-cex/bittrex/poloneix are much clearer than theirs.
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