Wasabi Wallet - how to increase privacy using hardware wallet?

FinneysTrueVision

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Quote from: ? on November 24, 2024, 01:58:40 PM

But why do I need to create a new wallet on my hardware wallet then? If my xPub of the hardware wallet does not get leaked while sending my coins to Wasabi to make the coinjoin, I should be able to send my coins back after the coinjoin to the "old" hardware wallet?

It depends on what wallet you used with the hardware device. If the wallet isn’t connected to your own full node or doesn’t use block filters, like Wasabi, there is some sensitive information being leaked to the servers you connect to.

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Speaking from my own experience. I did the same mistakes you did when I thought Bitcoin was more Private than it truly is. I thought mixing Coin Joined Bitcoin with non Coin Joined Bitcoin will be manageable. Things turned out very different however.

You can use Electrum with your Hardware Wallet and label your Addresses to know whether the Coins have been processed through a Coin Join or not. But the human brain can some times play games on us. I did this, thought I will never run into any issue only to realize months later that I did not label one Address. Was it a Coin Joined? Was it not? I could not remember. Then I found out one of the Addresses was wrongly labeled. This was only because of my comfort of having all Coins in the same Wallet.

It is also enough that you use one of the wrong Addresses as an input to destroy every single progress you had through Coin Joins.

So again. From my own experience. I strongly suggest that you do NOT mix these two but have separate Wallets instead. Less convenient but much better for your mental in the long run.

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Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on November 24, 2024, 12:15:32 PM

You don’t leak the xpub by simply making a transaction. If it does get leaked, it will reveal every address associated with your wallet.

But why do I need to create a new wallet on my hardware wallet then? If my xPub of the hardware wallet does not get leaked while sending my coins to Wasabi to make the coinjoin, I should be able to send my coins back after the coinjoin to the "old" hardware wallet?

Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on November 23, 2024, 02:35:54 PM

Wasabi Wallet allows you to coinjoin to a hardware wallet. You will first need to create a standard wallet in Wasabi where your coins will be mixed and then create a second wallet that is connected to your hardware device. In the standard wallet you can go to the coinjoin settings menu and select the hardware wallet that your mixed coins will be transferred to.

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Quote from: ? on November 24, 2024, 10:43:38 AM

I have always been asking myself: Is my xPub "leaked" once I send a transaction? And does one once he knows the xPub see my entire BTC balance, spread across multiple addresses?

You don’t leak the xpub by simply making a transaction. If it does get leaked, it will reveal every address associated with your wallet.

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Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on November 23, 2024, 05:37:45 PM

Quote from: ? on November 23, 2024, 04:23:33 PM

Thanks a lot guys.

Do you know how hard it is to get a new wallet (or new xPub) on a hardware device? Or do I need to buy an entirely new device which would be frustrating Wink

You don’t need a new device. You can create multiple wallets with a hardware device and each new wallet has a different xpub.

I have always been asking myself: Is my xPub "leaked" once I send a transaction? And does one once he knows the xPub see my entire BTC balance, spread across multiple addresses?

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Quote from: ? on November 23, 2024, 04:23:33 PM

Thanks a lot guys.

Do you know how hard it is to get a new wallet (or new xPub) on a hardware device? Or do I need to buy an entirely new device which would be frustrating Wink

You don’t need a new device. You can create multiple wallets with a hardware device and each new wallet has a different xpub.

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Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on November 23, 2024, 04:17:15 PM

Quote from: ? on November 23, 2024, 03:47:45 PM

got it, thanks a lot. One more thing: you mentioned that I need to create a second wallet which is connected to my hardware wallet. Does this mean I can't use my previous wallet (with the reused receiving adress), just using receiving adresses I never used before this time?

Technically, it is possible to still use your old wallet to receive coins from a coinjoin but if you were using a wallet that exposes your xpub to the wallet provider, that provider will know your past and future wallet history. A coinjoin wouldn’t give you privacy from anybody who has your xpub. Creating a new wallet would be the only way to ensure there isn’t a direct way to link to your past activity.

Thanks a lot guys.

Do you know how hard it is to get a new wallet (or new xPub) on a hardware device? Or do I need to buy an entirely new device which would be frustrating Wink

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Quote from: ? on November 23, 2024, 03:47:45 PM

got it, thanks a lot. One more thing: you mentioned that I need to create a second wallet which is connected to my hardware wallet. Does this mean I can't use my previous wallet (with the reused receiving adress), just using receiving adresses I never used before this time?

Technically, it is possible to still use your old wallet to receive coins from a coinjoin but if you were using a wallet that exposes your xpub to the wallet provider, that provider will know your past and future wallet history. A coinjoin wouldn’t give you privacy from anybody who has your xpub. Creating a new wallet would be the only way to ensure there isn’t a direct way to link to your past activity.

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Quote from: ? on November 23, 2024, 03:47:45 PM

got it, thanks a lot. One more thing: you mentioned that I need to create a second wallet which is connected to my hardware wallet. Does this mean I can't use my previous wallet (with the reused receiving adress), just using receiving adresses I never used before this time?

If it's possible to connect your existing wallet then you should just connect it to the hardware wallet but as explained before is that it's better if you create a new wallet so that you wouldn't have to use the main wallet when you mix your coins instead the other wallet is what you should use and then the main wallet should be the receiving one that's why you need to create another wallet. Well, I may be wrong in what I said so other forum members may/will correct my mistake.

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got it, thanks a lot. One more thing: you mentioned that I need to create a second wallet which is connected to my hardware wallet. Does this mean I can't use my previous wallet (with the reused receiving adress), just using receiving adresses I never used before this time?

Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on November 23, 2024, 02:35:54 PM

Wasabi Wallet allows you to coinjoin to a hardware wallet. You will first need to create a standard wallet in Wasabi where your coins will be mixed and then create a second wallet that is connected to your hardware device. In the standard wallet you can go to the coinjoin settings menu and select the hardware wallet that your mixed coins will be transferred to.

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Quote from: ? on November 23, 2024, 02:46:11 PM

perfect, thanks a lot. Is the privacy restored afterwards or will there be a way of tracing back the coins to the adress reuse? The former of course only if I reached a high enough privacy score in Wasabi Wallet, e.g. though multiple coinjoins.

Coinjoining to another wallet doesn’t consider your anonymity score target so to get the best privacy possible you will need to wait for a few remixes to be done in your standard wallet before changing the setting to mix to a hardware wallet. After this there should be no problems and the coins in your hardware wallet should not be traceable to the reused address.

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Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on November 23, 2024, 02:35:54 PM

Wasabi Wallet allows you to coinjoin to a hardware wallet. You will first need to create a standard wallet in Wasabi where your coins will be mixed and then create a second wallet that is connected to your hardware device. In the standard wallet you can go to the coinjoin settings menu and select the hardware wallet that your mixed coins will be transferred to.

perfect, thanks a lot. Is the privacy restored afterwards or will there be a way of tracing back the coins to the adress reuse? The former of course only if I reached a high enough privacy score in Wasabi Wallet, e.g. though multiple coinjoins.

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Wasabi Wallet allows you to coinjoin to a hardware wallet. You will first need to create a standard wallet in Wasabi where your coins will be mixed and then create a second wallet that is connected to your hardware device. In the standard wallet you can go to the coinjoin settings menu and select the hardware wallet that your mixed coins will be transferred to.

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Quote from: tranthidung on November 23, 2024, 11:12:21 AM

Quote from: ? on November 22, 2024, 02:55:15 PM

I wanted to do a coinjoin using the Wasabi Wallet in order to increase my privacy

You are late. Wasabi wallet no longer provides Coin Join.

Wasabi Wallet To Eliminate Coinjoin Amid U.S. Regulatory Fears
Wasabi Wallet-Developer Blocks U.S. Citizens and Residents After Samourai Wallet Arrests

Quote from: https://wasabiwallet.io/

No default coordinator

Starting from June 1, 2024, Wasabi Wallet will no longer have a default coinjoin coordinator.

Thanks for your response. As of my knowledge, coinjoin is still possible with Wasabi. What you pointed out is probably the fact that they do not act as coordinators themselves anymore. They still say that they offer coinjoin on their website (https://wasabiwallet.io/faq.html). I believe that previously one could use Wasabi as the coordinator of the coinjoin, but now, you need to select a coordinator from websites like https://wabisator.com/. Still, thank you for pointing out.

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Quote from: ? on November 22, 2024, 02:55:15 PM

I wanted to do a coinjoin using the Wasabi Wallet in order to increase my privacy

You are late. Wasabi wallet no longer provides Coin Join.

Wasabi Wallet To Eliminate Coinjoin Amid U.S. Regulatory Fears
Wasabi Wallet-Developer Blocks U.S. Citizens and Residents After Samourai Wallet Arrests

Quote from: https://wasabiwallet.io/

No default coordinator

Starting from June 1, 2024, Wasabi Wallet will no longer have a default coinjoin coordinator.

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Hi everyone,

I am relatively new to Bitcoin and got into the privacy topic recently. I wanted to do a coinjoin using the Wasabi Wallet in order to increase my privacy (did adress reuse by accident in the past because I did not know yet it is a problem in terms of privacy). In order to do that, I want to transfer my BTC from my hardware wallet to Wasabi wallet and do one or multiple coinjoins. After that, I want to send the BTC to my hardware wallet again. Are there any privacy concerns with the last step? Can I select the output adresses (generated from the xPub of my hardware wallet) so that after the coinjoin, my BTC will be on the hardware wallet again, but with privacy optimized?

Hope this question makes sense - allow me to clarify if this is not the case. Many thanks in advance for your swift response

Topic: Wasabi Wallet - how to increase privacy using hardware wallet? (Read 140 times)