Topic: Washington’s $210 Trillion Deficit (Read 2438 times)

BTC is currently one of the worst financial vehicles to place one's savings into. It is wildly speculative and far too volatile to risk hard earned capital for diminishing returns. Traditional savings routes in IRAs, CDs, mutual funds, heck even a savings account (as low as the interest rates are) are far more safe currently.

I liken BTC to that of a penny stock today. Put some cash into it. It may crash into the moon or hit the basement. What I find exciting is that BTC is educating the younger people of today (far more technologically advanced) on economics and how monetary policy works in a real-time way.

This would be the logical thing to think, but for this to become a fact we need educated people to know what Bitcoin is, otherwise if they want to save their money somewhere they will go for the classics (USD and metals).

China is the largest holder of the US national debt. You are still going to argue that this country will be quickly undermined and their government replaced by the US puppets in case the Chinese government decides to get rid of their US debt stock? Russia has recently been seen selling US treasuries, and so what?

For the US economy to collapse it would be enough that countries stopped buying the US debt

Imho the number means (almost) nothing. Dollar (like most currencies) is only ... paper which the government tells you it has some value.
The actual value of this paper is adjusted according to the government needs, using inflation or deflation.

Sorry if my view is too simplistic...

Their debt means nothing as there is no one in higher authority for them to answer to.

Who will force them to repay their debts?
Who will place sanctions on the USA?
The answer is Nobody.

If any country dares to challenge their currency or authority, that country will quickly be undermined or their government destroyed and replaced by US puppets.

The more governments screw up their monetary systems, the brighter Bitcoin's prospects become. 

Could someone explain how this relates to Bitcoin? The overall Bitcoin economy and such doesn't register at all in this kind of discussion, does it?

Plan B Countries? This made me start thinking about which countries actually run a budget surplus.
Surprised to find that Germany is right up there.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2015/02/24/germanys-budget-surplus-strengthens-hand-in-dealing-with-vulnerable-eurozone-economies/

...

And it ain't getting any better.  Just today I read that Obama's new Budget forecasts a deficit (FY 2016?) of some $860 billion.  Which of course is just another lie.

I expect politicians to be extra-eager to spend our money.  I am dismayed that the people elect them to do so.  Our people seem to be either greedy or uninformed (or both).  *Sigh*

Our (USA anyway, probably Europe, Japan, etc.) is not only peeing away our valued savings (ZIRP & NIRP), but our liberties as well.

I wonder if I should start that "Plan B Countries" I have been thinking about........

I believe this could be one of the mechanisms for diverting a dying debt system. Many companies in the US no longer offer pensions. Most have done away with this system in preference of 401Ks or other limited investment vehicles. Even then, the 401Ks offered have a fraction of the returns they used to and allow no control over funds chosen by the individual employee.

I see the potential in the future for the USG to tax workers on all benefits given (including healthcare costs). Retirement/healthcare and the likes will all become the personal responsibility of the individual. The effect of this will be massive especially with the youth no longer saving for their future.

The USG can then used this increased tax pool to finance its existing obligations and transitory long enough for the die off of generations on the older (broken) system utilized today. Future generations will have no idea what Social Security or Medicare was.

The music stops when the lenders don't want to lend more (in case of the 200 trillion number which includes future liabilities, you also have to include: When people stop trusting that pensions and welfare will be paid).

Lots of people do not know that they have lent out assets to the government through their pension funds. They believe in the lies and the scams from the state. Lots of people will have to learn really quick when the reset comes. I wonder how it will play out.

There would be no heaps of notes lying around. All these trillions are just numbers in a computer's storage media (just like bitcoins), which can be potentially erased as quickly as they have been created, that is with a single keypress (or two)...

It puzzles me a lot on how all these can actually sustain itself for so long without collapsing. I mean there must be an end to it. Trillion is indeed not a small number and imagine for the next few decades to come, it will just blow up to infinity. I'm just wondering if it really happens what are we gonna to do with all the heaps of notes lying around.

When people lose faith in the government's ability to control the value of the money in circulation, they buy gold. Historically, gold has been looked as a hedge against inflation. During times of turmoil, gold's price shoots up.
Now they have a digitized alternative - Bitcoin.

The history has proven, that governments cannot be trusted controlling the monetary system.

i found an article from Laurence Kotlikoff


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/whats-the-most-fiscally-responsible-country-in-the-developed-world/

Rather than looking at absolute numbers, it might be better to look at the ratio of debt/GDP. The worrying thing is, this has been going up as well over the years.

I think you are overvaluing bitcoin and its significance as well as its danger to the powers that be. They are not attacking bitcoin since they don't see hazard to their position and influence from cryptocurrencies. Why crush a fly with a steam-roller?

Which means two things since the US government is not only not attacking Bitcoin, but endorsing it in many instances.  Either Satoshi = NSA, or they see collapse as imminent so there would be no point in attacking it and are letting people use it as a eugenics or wealth transfer mechanism to avoid a new dark ages.

They will be running the show as long as there are states and nations which can be economically devastated by them. The US is a vulture that preys on wounded and weak animals. Recently, they tried to prey on Russia but got fought back strongly, and now they are trashing Europe for being the weakest link...

The question is, how much can they keep running the show? Because as long as people accept dollars, the dollar will keep going and going even tho if the fundamentals of the system are a total scam.

Ah. Good news.  

According to Kotlikoff (the economist interviewed here), the fiscal gap was $222 trillion in 2012.  It follows that the US is $12 trillion (42 billion bitcoins) better off than it was just a couple of years ago.  Nice job guys!

By the by: the term is "fiscal gap", not "deficit".  The fiscal gap is a measure of how broke the government is whereas the deficit is simply how much it's pissing away each year.  "Washington's $210 trillion deficit" is just plain wrong.

I always like to mention this when war and gold are brought up....the post war supply of gold was much more more than previously thought.

Additionally to the statement above, the US "inherited" (stole) the large majority of the gold that Japan plundered from Asia preceding and during the war. Late in the war, the Japanese had their supply lines back to the Home Islands cut by the Allies. Knowing they would lose the war from relatively early in the piece, the royal family had been transferring the combined plundered wealth of China and SE Asia back to the Emperor in order for them to be financially on their feet post war - they assumed they would be allowed to 'keep' many places in Asia (ie Phllipines), so when the supply routes were blocked they buried thousands and thousands of tonnes of gold underground (Yamashita's Treasure). Multiple complexes were built (Golden Lily sites), designed with booby traps and with the POW's who built the bunkers entombed within. To avoid destruction, these bunkers were built under churches, hospitals and places the Allies would not bomb. Most of the loot was in the Philippines and it was the source of Marcos's wealth. The US OSS took most of it though and used it to finance political parties around the world. (Notice how the Nazi's were hung but the Hirohito family & most Japanese military leaders were not; in fact most stayed in power for many years despite being war criminals - to 'fight' terrorism. Japan was never broke as stated.) The rightful owners in many cases tried to get it back (Rogerio Roxas won the worlds biggest civil case against Marcos Estate) while descendants of shady Filipino ("Santy") tried to sue Citibank for continually denying them access to their wealth and moving it offshore. Dirty, dirty world.

Since the debt is denominated in the same dollars, the Fed could just print them and repay all the debts with the newly printed money. As an option (if it goes to that), they could also refuse to pay out debt to its foreign holders, or repay it and then ban the dollars which were issued for this purpose. Piece o'cake...

That is a lot of dollar bills. Then theres Australia who is 40b deficit lol.

Obama doing a great job.

...

The numbers for the "US Debt" are all over the map, yet very high no matter where you look.  I do not really know whose figures to believe, but the debts and deficits are unsustainable.

Just the $18 tn works out to some $54,000 per man, woman and child in the USA.  

How does that get paid back?  It won't get paid back.

I have seen figures that include unfunded Social Security and MediCare liabilities (probably other liabilities included as well) that make the .gov debts run to $70 tn or more.

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I do not have the figures at hand, but including corporate and household debts, we would be very, very high, probably over $200 tn.

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There was an interesting article at Zero Hedge today about how the USA is probably "the cleanest dirty shirt in the closet."  Usually ZH is pretty down on the USA (probably a "Guest Post", LOL), but it is known that Japan is at some 400% of debt / GDP, the highest in the world (IIRC the US is around 240%).  The ZH article went on to show that China and Europe are even more screwed than we are...

I am not in a position to judge, but my opinion would be that we are better off financially than Europe, China and Japan.  FW my opinion IW.

Good question:
It does specify "Washington" (Federal debt), so they are probably estimating all unfunded commitments (i.e. Medicare, Social Insecurity, etc)
The numbers do seem awful high.

petrodollar?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_state-sponsored_terrorism


and yeah, this is only the tip of the iceberg

all power to the $$

The US rose to world power only thanks to the two world wars. At the end of WWII the United States controlled two thirds of the world's gold (they were custodians of the European gold), and in Bretton Woods they insisted that the world financial system should be based on the US dollar (allegedly backed up by their gold). Just what you wanted to know...

By the way, Great Britain only recently paid out their WWII debt to the United States

Well Greece has an official total debt of about 350 billion, so about 0.15% of the number posted here I would assume it is more than Greece!

Given that the official debt number for the US is 18.7trillion, I don't know exactly where the other 193trillion come from.. I assum it is the total private debt of each person, company etc. it doesn't matter, it's all just numbers, they are still rich and will remain so.

How do wars have anything to do with this, other than the notion that nobody wants to screw over the US dollar because they dont' want the USA coming in with their bombs....

Don't get it.  Wars don't keep everyone on the planet using the almighty dollar as the basis for every trade.

Financing wars, as well as conducting them, allows the US to maintain the US dollar universal hegemony and its status as a global reserve currency, which is the US primary weapon of mass destruction in financial wars that this country is permanently engaged in...

IMO, it's just numbers on page somewhere. The US was broke and in deficit 20 years after it started thanks to Hamilton. The US should really stop financing wars. It's what made this mess anyway. Since we all know that won't happen, the best it can hope for is to continue control of the petrodollar dominating a large chunk of the World's commerce through their currency.

You read that right: $210 trillion.

A trillion here, a trillion there: pretty soon, we’re talking big money.

Professor Lawrence Kotlikoff of Boston University testified before the Senate Budget Committee. As usual, his testimony is shocking

    The U.S. has a $210 trillion “fiscal gap” and “may well be in worse fiscal shape than any developed country, including Greece,” Boston University economist Laurence Kotlikoff told members of the Senate Budget Committee in written and oral testimony on Feb. 25.

    “The first point I want to get across is that our nation is broke,” Kotlikoff testified. “Our nation’s broke, and it’s not broke in 75 years or 50 years or 25 years or 10 years. It’s broke today.
http://teapartyeconomist.com/2015/03/12/washingtons-210-trillion-deficit


I remember the official USA Federal Deficit being in the range of $14 Billion, $15 B, $18,000,000,000, but the numbers above are hard to comprehend. I hope the collapse can somehow be avoided for a long time.