We need the large Over the Counter (OTC) buy orders on exchanges!

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Quote from: Crypdon on April 23, 2019, 01:44:32 AM

As i'm no whale i haven't done any OTC trades but i would guess that it comes coupled with some extra security reassurances that exchanges don't offer. Or they get a better price when buying

I would say that they have less security, because not all OTC trades are done on platforms where KYC/AML requirements are needed to do transactions with other traders. Roll Eyes

I think the main reason why some whales use OTC platforms and not exchanges are the "red tape" and "strict Tos" hassles with most of these exchanges. Angry

A lot of people do not trust exchanges after MtGox and many of the other exchange hacks that took place over the years. Angry

Crypdon

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As i'm no whale i haven't done any OTC trades but i would guess that it comes coupled with some extra security reassurances that exchanges don't offer. Or they get a better price when buying

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Quote from: magneto on April 22, 2019, 11:55:03 PM

I don't see the reasoning in why the market needs to necessarily operate through OTC orders.

The institutions or the investors with high capital will do whatever that is best for themselves. If they decide that they want to conduct a private trade without moving the market too much in the short run, then they will do it over the counter potentially.

But I don't think that there is any tangible benefits that would arise through incentivising or promoting the use of OTC orders necessarily. If there isn't any utility in OTC trades for a certain purpose then traders would simply avoid it, it's not up to the market to control. If traders do decide to go the over the counter route on a large transaction then it could prevent flash crashes and have a more stable short term BTC price, but if their objective is to move the market, there is nothing we can do to stop them from doing it.

We do not want to stop them from doing that, we merely hinting that some of them should "bump" the price now and again with a large trade, to stimulate the growth. A slowly rising price is good for everyone and not just for them. Wink

Before 2017, we had a continuous stretch, where the Bitcoin price steadily went upwards and that was one of the best times in Bitcoin's history, because most people were positive about it's future and that stimulated the development of new innovative Bitcoin companies and ideas.

We want those days to return to Bitcoin. Wink

magneto

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I don't see the reasoning in why the market needs to necessarily operate through OTC orders.

The institutions or the investors with high capital will do whatever that is best for themselves. If they decide that they want to conduct a private trade without moving the market too much in the short run, then they will do it over the counter potentially.

But I don't think that there is any tangible benefits that would arise through incentivising or promoting the use of OTC orders necessarily. If there isn't any utility in OTC trades for a certain purpose then traders would simply avoid it, it's not up to the market to control. If traders do decide to go the over the counter route on a large transaction then it could prevent flash crashes and have a more stable short term BTC price, but if their objective is to move the market, there is nothing we can do to stop them from doing it.

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I believe why we are not seeing a very big influence in the price of bitcoin is not just because of the exchange this people go to in order to make purchase of bitcoin but because of the trading volume that bitcoin already has, bitcoin has the largest trading volume in the crypto trading world and it will take more than a few millions of dollars to affect the market to move to a very high price, if the same amount of money pumped into bitcoin is being pumped into other crypto with smaller volumes, then we would see a very massive rise in price.

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Quote from: Xalata on April 16, 2019, 08:59:23 AM

hahahaha...you are damn right we really do need that reward after holding bitcoins for a very long time. Actually i have also thought about this question and the only thing that came in mind was that maybe we need to shut these OTCs down because they are the ones that are not making bitcoin rise like we should actually see it. They visit exchange platforms and purchase them at a very low price and sell it very high.

That's sure a good business for them and this is one of the neglected reasons which is not helping the price of bitcoin to rise.

No, they cannot stop OTC trading and they should never do that. We cannot solely rely on centralized services like exchanges to buy and sell bitcoins, because these services can be shutdown by governments. Roll Eyes

People use these services because they have way less "red tape" and also because large dumping of coins will not have the opposite affect, by pushing the price down. Wink

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Buying is definitely something you can do on the market considering you are going to increase the price which helps you out too, this OTC deal has to be done for the selling part, I am sure back when Craig Wright sold like 10k+ bitcoins and dropped the price he had to take a big loss as well because he himself dropped the price and sold it for cheaper than he could have.

If he was given the option to sell them all at 6 thousand dollars he would have taken it and the person who bought it would have bought bitcoins for cheap and could have sold it slowly. That way Craig would get his money asap and for more fiat than how he did and the buyer could have used his time to slowly sell them to the market not destroying it for months and still make a profit.

Xalata

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hahahaha...you are damn right we really do need that reward after holding bitcoins for a very long time. Actually i have also thought about this question and the only thing that came in mind was that maybe we need to shut these OTCs down because they are the ones that are not making bitcoin rise like we should actually see it. They visit exchange platforms and purchase them at a very low price and sell it very high.

That's sure a good business for them and this is one of the neglected reasons which is not helping the price of bitcoin to rise.

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Quote from: Crypto Girl on April 16, 2019, 05:57:43 AM

More likely this OTC are some sort of third party that manage the fund.

OTC is just referred to as off-spot-exchange trade.

It can be you and me doing a trade directly (P2P), you buying from a miner or whale directly (P2P), or you can have an OTC desk connecting buyers and sellers. In case of the latter, the service provided by OTC desks differs from platform to platform. Some only do the matching part, and some require you to send them the coins and fiat in order to settle the transaction.

The most fascinating part about OTC trades are the volumes we can only speculate about, which is directly one of the main reasons why some large players prefer to avoid spot exchanges.

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Quote from: eaLiTy on April 14, 2019, 11:39:07 PM

Quote from: sheenshane on April 14, 2019, 07:26:08 AM

Basically, Over The Counter (OTC) Platforms are decentralized trading/exchange platform where the sharks will be able to exchange easily and buy a large number of Cryptocurrencies with convenience and less transparency.

These are centralized platform that deals only in huge amounts, you send the money in the account provided by them and they will be sending you the coins in your wallet you provided, basically it is a one on one trade.

More likely this OTC are some sort of third party that manage the fund.

Quote from: leea-1334 on April 15, 2019, 01:13:18 AM

Not all OTC orders are easily found on exchanges and platforms. I actually wonder how much OTC is done not even from websites or resources available to the public. If you think about it and you see some of the volumes of trades on Localbitcoins, and then you see also that they have contacts and face-2-face meetings for cash settlements, then you realize,,, there is just so much trading going on that will never be recorded as volumes in global markets.

Good point and these people prefer to have p2p transaction aside from the fact that they can profit more decently than buying in exchange sites. The rate is somehow cheaper anyway.

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Quote from: Crypdon on April 15, 2019, 01:39:51 AM

If they're looking at a highly varied portfolio then timing is everything. A large purchase in bitcoin would be enough to lift all the other coins. Unless the large buy order was placed before hand at a price high enough to not trigger any immediate movement

Well, it does not have to be a large "buy" order. They can take a small fraction of their available Fiat capital and rather trade on exchanges and still use OTC platforms for the rest. We just need a constant push on the demand side for Bitcoin to motivate people to continue investing in this technology.

The continued drop in the price, dampened new investors appetite for investments in Bitcoin, because they might think that it is a dying technology, just based on their focus on the price movement. Angry

Crypdon

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If they're looking at a highly varied portfolio then timing is everything. A large purchase in bitcoin would be enough to lift all the other coins. Unless the large buy order was placed before hand at a price high enough to not trigger any immediate movement

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Quote from: exstasie on April 13, 2019, 05:26:53 AM

Quote from: Kakmakr on April 05, 2019, 01:16:10 AM

Most large Bitcoin buy orders are being done on Over the Counter (OTC) trading platforms and they have zero influence on the Bitcoin price. I was just wondering if Hedge funds and large private buyers could execute their buy orders on exchanges Tongue

They can still execute their Sell orders on OTC platforms, away from exchanges, because Sell orders will push down the price. Roll Eyes

We just need a few of these large buy orders to give us a spark for a new Bull run again. Grin

That's the thing. OTC buyers don't want to push the price up because they're accumulating. OTC sellers don't want to push the price down because they're distributing. They both don't want the price to move against them. I'm sure if OTC liquidity didn't exist, they would limit their buying/selling on exchanges to avoid moving the price.

Quote from: Kakmakr on April 05, 2019, 01:16:10 AM

Why do we need people to resort to algorithmic trading to hide $300 000 000 buy orders?

To trick smaller fish into selling. Whales announcing their presence only harms their ability to build a position.

They can still do this, but if the price movement stays in a Bear market for too long, people would lose interest in Bitcoin as an investment and they will move over to the next big thing.

If they "bump" the price now and again, people will see that there are still room for some speculation and some profits and they will stay around a little bit longer. Wink

leea-1334

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Not all OTC orders are easily found on exchanges and platforms. I actually wonder how much OTC is done not even from websites or resources available to the public. If you think about it and you see some of the volumes of trades on Localbitcoins, and then you see also that they have contacts and face-2-face meetings for cash settlements, then you realize,,, there is just so much trading going on that will never be recorded as volumes in global markets.

eaLiTy

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Quote from: Kakmakr on April 05, 2019, 01:45:15 AM

Well, actually the people doing trades on OTC platforms are not market manipulators. They simply do not want to deal with centralized exchanges, because centralized exchanges panic when they need to deal with large buy & sell orders. The first reaction from most exchanges, when large buy/sell orders are placed, is to stall or to temporarily suspend those people's accounts for some obscure reason. Roll Eyes

The buy orders will not have to be coordinated, they can simply arrange this in their own time and we would see a small spike in the price. Wink

A few weeks back we saw a coordinated buy order in several exchanges for an amount ranging to hundred million dollars and i saw that as a spark for the upward movement, if the spark of seeing a huge buy order in exchanges could bring some change to the market, so be it Cheesy

. I came across a few OTC exchanges where they sell only bulk orders, initially you have to agree upon a fixed price and make the payment and the coins will be sent to your wallet after your payment is verified, minimum buy order will be hundred thousand dollars. I am not sure centralized exchanges will suspend if you deposit a huge amount to trade, never heard such complaints till now.

Quote from: sheenshane on April 14, 2019, 07:26:08 AM

Basically, Over The Counter (OTC) Platforms are decentralized trading/exchange platform where the sharks will be able to exchange easily and buy a large number of Cryptocurrencies with convenience and less transparency.

These are centralized platform that deals only in huge amounts, you send the money in the account provided by them and they will be sending you the coins in your wallet you provided, basically it is a one on one trade.

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Basically, Over The Counter (OTC) Platforms are decentralized trading/exchange platform where the sharks will be able to exchange easily and buy a large number of Cryptocurrencies with convenience and less transparency.

This is also a nice plan. By sparking the price for a little bit, it would fire the thing and would give us another bull run. They aren't manipulating the market, they are actually doing their best to get the interests of the people. There's a perspective of, by initiating something, the herd will follow and will feel confident of doing it as well.

okala

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Smart idea this is capable of giving the market a great push and result in a bull run again after a long period of the bearish market since 2018, but most big investors like the over the counter buy order due to not trusting the exchange to execute the order properly which could lead to the found hanging on the network without dropping in the account they don't want to take that high risk.

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Quote from: exstasie on April 13, 2019, 05:26:53 AM

Quote from: Kakmakr on April 05, 2019, 01:16:10 AM

Most large Bitcoin buy orders are being done on Over the Counter (OTC) trading platforms and they have zero influence on the Bitcoin price. I was just wondering if Hedge funds and large private buyers could execute their buy orders on exchanges Tongue

They can still execute their Sell orders on OTC platforms, away from exchanges, because Sell orders will push down the price. Roll Eyes

We just need a few of these large buy orders to give us a spark for a new Bull run again. Grin

That's the thing. OTC buyers don't want to push the price up because they're accumulating. OTC sellers don't want to push the price down because they're distributing. They both don't want the price to move against them. I'm sure if OTC liquidity didn't exist, they would limit their buying/selling on exchanges to avoid moving the price.

Quote from: Kakmakr on April 05, 2019, 01:16:10 AM

Why do we need people to resort to algorithmic trading to hide $300 000 000 buy orders?

To trick smaller fish into selling. Whales announcing their presence only harms their ability to build a position.

Everything do really have a corresponding reason why these things being set-up this way and the thing you said here is definitely true.They dont really like
for prices to go against them because every action or decision should be precise for them to took advantage.

exstasie

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Quote from: Kakmakr on April 05, 2019, 01:16:10 AM

Most large Bitcoin buy orders are being done on Over the Counter (OTC) trading platforms and they have zero influence on the Bitcoin price. I was just wondering if Hedge funds and large private buyers could execute their buy orders on exchanges Tongue

They can still execute their Sell orders on OTC platforms, away from exchanges, because Sell orders will push down the price. Roll Eyes

We just need a few of these large buy orders to give us a spark for a new Bull run again. Grin

That's the thing. OTC buyers don't want to push the price up because they're accumulating. OTC sellers don't want to push the price down because they're distributing. They both don't want the price to move against them. I'm sure if OTC liquidity didn't exist, they would limit their buying/selling on exchanges to avoid moving the price.

Quote from: Kakmakr on April 05, 2019, 01:16:10 AM

Why do we need people to resort to algorithmic trading to hide $300 000 000 buy orders?

To trick smaller fish into selling. Whales announcing their presence only harms their ability to build a position.

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I don't think that the buyers would be alright with such a risky move since they primarily care about the security of their funds just like anyone else at the end of the day and we are talking about insanely huge amounts here.

If they do agree to do this, they would need to find a lot of sellers who are ready to sell their coins at the target that they set which would not be easy.

cryptjh

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I think that the exchange volume is too small to handle those gains trade of 10k bitcoins or more, two weeks ago a trader or a group of traders bought 21k bitcoins on 3 different exchange, and the price of bitcoins jumped $1000

I think those large deals would lead to manipulations of an already heavy manipulated crypto market.
Doing over the counter sales also means that both the seller and buyer will stay anonymous, and no exchange would be able to take a small fee on the trade or even worse hold back the crypto or the fiat money.

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Sounds pushy but I guess that's a great plan though. However, it would be hard to find a large number of bitcoin buyers through that. You need to attract more investors just to increase the number of buy orders. Someyimes the demand is quite different from the prices which we must consider.

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Not just for bitcoin but for small coins as well, anytime someone sells a lot of amount from a coin they kill their market and most coins can't handle that way, so in order to make it possible maybe the person could be selling the coins a bit under the market but not too much and for a bulk amount, think about it lets say a coin is one dollars and you have 100k of that coin which should be 100 thousand dollars but if you sell all of them you will cause the price to go down and you can't sell it for 100k instead will get like 60-70k at best.

In this scenario you will not be selling on "market" prices but put it on sale for .90 cents and that way you will be selling for less than the market prices but you will be selling 100k of it, the buyer is profiting from that difference and you are not killing the market.

fiulpro

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So you know in our country we have like 1000 wallets , and the price of Bitcoins on each wallet is too different , somewhere it's less somewhere it's high , it doesn't depend on the market actually it depends on the orders they are taking up !
The price won't be influenced like this .
For example the exchange : Zebpay in India is previously was selling and buying Bitcoins on a much higher price than the global market, but since now it's banned to sell and buy Bitcoins through banks in India that thing has halted .
More or so this is something that could locally influence the market not globally , but maybe they could start integrating themselves more and this would just steer the geer 🙌
Hope this happens.

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Quote from: Kakmakr on April 05, 2019, 01:16:10 AM

Most large Bitcoin buy orders are being done on Over the Counter (OTC) trading platforms and they have zero influence on the Bitcoin price. I was just wondering if Hedge funds and large private buyers could execute their buy orders on exchanges Tongue

They can still execute their Sell orders on OTC platforms, away from exchanges, because Sell orders will push down the price. Roll Eyes

We just need a few of these large buy orders to give us a spark for a new Bull run again. Grin

Why do we need people to resort to algorithmic trading to hide $300 000 000 buy orders? Let's just push some high value buy orders through some exchanges and see what happens after that. Tongue

They can then go back to Over the Counter (OTC) trading platforms, after they started the next Bull run. Grin

A nice idea you have, but how are you going to make those large buyers of Bitcoin do that?

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Quote from: odolvlobo on April 05, 2019, 10:57:52 AM

Quote from: Kakmakr on April 05, 2019, 01:16:10 AM

... they have zero influence on the Bitcoin price. ...

There is no "the Bitcoin price". Every market reports its own last price and they are all different. Every trade has its own price and they are all different.

Quote from: Kakmakr on April 05, 2019, 01:16:10 AM

... Sell orders on OTC platforms... buy orders on exchanges...

Not sure about what you mean here. You need exchanges for orders. If an "OTC platform" takes orders, it is an exchange.

The "OTC platforms" should not do this themselves, the people doing the OTC trading should shift some of those large trades to exchange to jump-start the new Bull run. The purpose of this exercise is to kick start a Bull run, to benefit everyone.

Once the Bull run has been kick started, thing can go back to being normal and OTC trades can continue in their old trading habits. They will only temporarily help to get things going again. Wink

We are not cheating or manipulating the market, because these trades should have been on exchanges and has no contribution to the price, being on the OTC platforms. Angry

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It wouldn't be too easy since price doesn't always follow demand, and also by buying a huge portion of coins from exchanges and dumping it onto OTC markets/platforms, one already significantly reduced the tradeable coins, so no more push would be done since only a few can buy bitcoins from the spot market. This further damages the market equilibrium and can only end up in grim scenarios instead of an expected bull run. This is a great idea if done in small quantities but still sufficient to turn some heads, stimulating the market to be full-on bullish mode. But in large quantities? This is a disaster brewing.

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Large buy orders will only hit spot exchanges when it's time for large accounts to start utilizing the lack of liquidity to pump their through OTC amassed coin stashes.

In the end, the availability of spot supply has gone down a lot already throughout the years, and this process will continue and even further accelerate during a mania where the OTC market is so dry, that the sellers start to demand premiums for their coins.

I have seen it locally where buyers were offering a 10% over spot premium just to get some coins and be part of the mania, and still it wasn't easy to find sellers with such an offer, because hey, why sell your coins for a 10% premium when the price can easily go up another 50-100% with how crazy the market was, and then you can still charge that 10% but now over a higher amount.

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Quote from: Kakmakr on April 05, 2019, 01:16:10 AM

Most large Bitcoin buy orders are being done on Over the Counter (OTC) trading platforms and they have zero influence on the Bitcoin price. I was just wondering if Hedge funds and large private buyers could execute their buy orders on exchanges Tongue

They can still execute their Sell orders on OTC platforms, away from exchanges, because Sell orders will push down the price. Roll Eyes

We just need a few of these large buy orders to give us a spark for a new Bull run again. Grin

Why do we need people to resort to algorithmic trading to hide $300 000 000 buy orders? Let's just push some high value buy orders through some exchanges and see what happens after that. Tongue

They can then go back to Over the Counter (OTC) trading platforms, after they started the next Bull run. Grin

Those greedy people are not thinking well, sounds a great plan OP, What are they waiting for if this could really give a big push for a next Bull. After all Bitcoin have manage to recover to 5k USD now. If they put some more buy orders now it could have give a great impact and maybe we will get another step up. If only I have the money I would put a strong 5k USD resistance in order for the price to stay as it is.

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Quote from: Kakmakr on April 05, 2019, 01:16:10 AM

... they have zero influence on the Bitcoin price. ...

There is no "the Bitcoin price". Every market reports its own last price and they are all different. Every trade has its own price and they are all different.

Quote from: Kakmakr on April 05, 2019, 01:16:10 AM

... Sell orders on OTC platforms... buy orders on exchanges...

Not sure about what you mean here. You need exchanges for orders. If an "OTC platform" takes orders, it is an exchange.

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Quote from: Crypdon on April 05, 2019, 01:36:24 AM

Sounds like a great plan. You would think that all these market manipulators would have been doing these tricks by now. The problem is that a coordinated buy order across the exchanges is not easy to execute and delays will be costly

Well, actually the people doing trades on OTC platforms are not market manipulators. They simply do not want to deal with centralized exchanges, because centralized exchanges panic when they need to deal with large buy & sell orders. The first reaction from most exchanges, when large buy/sell orders are placed, is to stall or to temporarily suspend those people's accounts for some obscure reason. Roll Eyes

The buy orders will not have to be coordinated, they can simply arrange this in their own time and we would see a small spike in the price. Wink

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Sounds like a great plan. You would think that all these market manipulators would have been doing these tricks by now. The problem is that a coordinated buy order across the exchanges is not easy to execute and delays will be costly

Kakmakr

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Most large Bitcoin buy orders are being done on Over the Counter (OTC) trading platforms and they have zero influence on the Bitcoin price. I was just wondering if Hedge funds and large private buyers could execute their buy orders on exchanges Tongue

They can still execute their Sell orders on OTC platforms, away from exchanges, because Sell orders will push down the price. Roll Eyes

We just need a few of these large buy orders to give us a spark for a new Bull run again. Grin

Why do we need people to resort to algorithmic trading to hide $300 000 000 buy orders? Let's just push some high value buy orders through some exchanges and see what happens after that. Tongue

They can then go back to Over the Counter (OTC) trading platforms, after they started the next Bull run. Grin

Topic: We need the large Over the Counter (OTC) buy orders on exchanges! (Read 415 times)