We need to create a independent mobile device

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Quote from: fiulpro on August 26, 2020, 08:46:09 AM

Quote from: spy100 on August 25, 2020, 10:00:51 AM

We need to create a independent mobile device

Here is one of the reasons why we need a mobile device that is not depending on app store or google play

https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21366438/apple-fortnite-ios-app-store-violations-epic-payments

There might be fortnite players strongly supporting this decision , see the thing is these large companies are doing nothing but using the small developers and paying even less than a minimum wage to a worker working for them in underdeveloped and developing countries.

All they care about is profit.

Problem with this would be : security

But at the same time we can create a third party open source system which might run on blockchain and at the same time get the thing done.The small developers can work together to make it secure and this way they can even beat the google play and even apple with right direction.

This will indeed start a revolution.

Apple after asking word press showed how greedy and jealous these big companies are, I like the idea but execution will be a little difficult.

How is a phone operating system going to run on blockchain? Honestly, people just throw blockchain out as a solution to everything without giving it any thought about if it's actually a solution or just a bunch of buzzwords strung together into a sentence. If things are truly as bad as everyone is claiming with Apple, then there is a huge incentive for a competitor to come and do things properly. That's not the case though. But Apple has a strong disincentive to allow anyone to jack around with their operating system since they won't be able to control any of the adverse consequences. There's a reason the majority of android phones are infected with unknown malware and Apple phones are largely unaffected by it.

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Quote from: Kong Hey Pakboy on August 27, 2020, 08:44:59 AM

Quote from: akram143 on August 27, 2020, 07:36:31 AM

When you said we then it is not possible to create an independent mobile device because not everyone is a techy to understand these things.Better don't use smartphones if we don't want our privacy to be invaded.Jailbreaking and rooting can do the needed things? Possibly if we overwrite with custom flash then it is possible to change the root permissions but it could do more harm than good for someone who don't understand these things.

If we intend to jailbreak or rooting our phones, viruses and malwares would be vulnerable on our smartphones. Creating an independent mobile devices or smartphones created by ourselves is difficult, especially if we don't have any knowledge building computers or robots, and we don't take IT courses. It is why if you really want to protect your privacy or personal information, never used any social media sites using your real identity for you to protect yourself.

As I said, getting root access can help us to change the permissions, so we can disable location access but definitely it is going to cause malfunctioning while running apps.

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Quote from: TheGreatPython on August 28, 2020, 10:11:37 AM

I have not even seen anyone talking about the Oak, unless they will be able to penetrate the Asian market with that system, mostly people prefer Android and iOS, and nothing more.

This Oak OS if I'm not mistaken is the other term of "HongMeng OS" from China and Oak for the overseas market in Huawei brand. See this article.

Imagine, among billions of people in this earth, only a few likes to own an independent mobile device, and pondering about it, if you want to make good money with your business then you should think that a good partner even it is a third party but it helps your business at all then you should go for it.? Money Making doesn't t go with a few numbers but a huge amount of supporters. It's better to make watch youtube videos, root your phone and then install a new OS and also create your own apps if you like. That's it.

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Quote from: spy100 on August 25, 2020, 10:00:51 AM

We need to create a independent mobile device

Here is one of the reasons why we need a mobile device that is not depending on app store or google play

https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21366438/apple-fortnite-ios-app-store-violations-epic-payments

It sounds like a good idea, but it’s not. And by the way Google Android and IOS are very popular, I don’t know if there is going to be another OS that will be able to reach that standard, although I think Huawei might be making attempt towards since they were banned by the US to use the Android OS. They (Huawei) introduced their own OS that is called Oak OS, but I don’t know much about this because I no longer make use of Huawei, it’s been a long time I made use of an Huawei device, now I am making use of IOS, that’s what works for me.

I have not even seen anyone talking about the Oak, unless they will be able to penetrate the Asian market with that system, mostly people prefer Android and iOS, and nothing more. And as for having an open OS, people will be taking risk using such system and I don’t think I would.

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It would be quite silly to start something this based on what they did to epic games, considering it is just one tiny game (well maybe not tiny but seriously unimportant) I would be really shocked to see a huge uproar from people because of this. But do you know what I would "want" instead of what I would expect? I would want it to happen and I would get one right away. F! Apple and all other companies who take monopoly over these things, there should not be a phone with a shop or anything, there should be a phone and people who want to download stuff to their phone goes to the website of that thing and download it, easy peasy, there is no third party.

I would really love to see something like that, it would hurt the independents probably but at least it would be free of company dictatorship over our phones.

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There are a few open source mobile phones that you can purchase now:

PinePhone: https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/
Pro5: https://www.meizu.com/en/products/pro5ubuntu/summary.html
Librem: https://puri.sm/products/ (available soon)

The main problem is getting developers to write software for your device. If you just want phone / text then fine.
If you want some basic apps, like web browsing and email probably simple to get too.
Having Microsoft port Outlook, or Hulu write a native app for it?
That is going to take some work.

-Dave

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on August 27, 2020, 08:58:16 AM

That is true, all of it, and it's unfortunate. And I know that what's really needed (an honest, privacy-centric OS developer) is just a pipe dream.

Eh, I worded my post a bit poorly, the OS isn't the main problem, there are open source OS for mobile platforms, the problem is hardware, unlike with desktops, it's much harder to install another OS on your mobile device, so what's actually needed is independent, privacy-respecting hardware, but there's no market for that, so it would be really hard for such company to compete. Though maybe in the future it would be easy to make DIY phones, based on microcomputers like Rasberry Pi.

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Quote from: crzy on August 27, 2020, 09:13:47 AM

We are far from this but if someone can invent a phone like this, then I will switch on that right away.

The phone makers are so busy focusing on their CAMERAS and other useless things aside from the hype, and they don't even care if they are just depending into some 3rd party apps because the users will suffer on that anyway but its good to know that Huawei successfully made their own App store and continues to develop and improve their phones. Independent mobile devices can help us to be more secured and become more anonymous, but then again the giant companies will not let this thing to happen as easy as we think.

Yeah, I second on that.
I will buy it immediately rather than just buying Iphones which upgrades in numbers. Grin

I love tweaking my phone before. Changing Rom and also made themes and Live Wallpapers myself until I got my phone into soft brick.
Well if this new phone can withstand all that tweaking that will happen then it will be great for us.
But how about the larger percentage of people who cannot understand that or doesn't have enough time to do so?

It will cost the manufacturer a lot if there is not enough buyers.
Still, the user-friendly mobile device will be on top. We can use Linux vs Windows as an example but in the market of mobile devices competition is higher.

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We are far from this but if someone can invent a phone like this, then I will switch on that right away.

The phone makers are so busy focusing on their CAMERAS and other useless things aside from the hype, and they don't even care if they are just depending into some 3rd party apps because the users will suffer on that anyway but its good to know that Huawei successfully made their own App store and continues to develop and improve their phones. Independent mobile devices can help us to be more secured and become more anonymous, but then again the giant companies will not let this thing to happen as easy as we think.

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Anything that gives the user anonymity and preserves his privacy, as well as independence, will meet with very great resistance from the government. Until now, we have already seen so many times what the cryptocurrency market is facing due to the negative government policies of many countries, but opening production to create a mobile device that would contradict the basic principles of the state, where the process of control over citizens is violated, cannot be implemented. even theoretically. If, for example, in the United States, the government very often violates human rights, but is afraid of publicity for its actions, then in a country like Russia an ordinary person knows everything and understands everything, but cannot influence the government's actions.

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Quote from: fiulpro on August 26, 2020, 08:46:09 AM

There might be fortnite players strongly supporting this decision , see the thing is these large companies are doing nothing but using the small developers and paying even less than a minimum wage to a worker working for them in underdeveloped and developing countries.

I don't care about fortnite or even gaming for that matter, but I agree with OP--and there was a time when I wouldn't have cared, but I've come to seriously distrust Google and Apple over the years, and it's pretty damn hard to buy a smartphone that isn't controlled by either one of those companies.

Things were so much simpler when we had mobile phones that didn't even flip open. Sure, they didn't offer all these great apps and were used for calling and texting, but at least you weren't handing over a bunch of personal data to Google or Apple and everyone else they share that information with. I don't miss those old days, but I do wish mobile tech could free itself from spying eyes.

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on August 27, 2020, 12:57:06 AM

Independent from whom? There are smaller OSs, you can already use them if you want. And if they will grow as big as Google and Apple, they'll probably engage in the same shitty practices.

That is true, all of it, and it's unfortunate. And I know that what's really needed (an honest, privacy-centric OS developer) is just a pipe dream.

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Quote from: akram143 on August 27, 2020, 07:36:31 AM

When you said we then it is not possible to create an independent mobile device because not everyone is a techy to understand these things.Better don't use smartphones if we don't want our privacy to be invaded.Jailbreaking and rooting can do the needed things? Possibly if we overwrite with custom flash then it is possible to change the root permissions but it could do more harm than good for someone who don't understand these things.

If we intend to jailbreak or rooting our phones, viruses and malwares would be vulnerable on our smartphones. Creating an independent mobile devices or smartphones created by ourselves is difficult, especially if we don't have any knowledge building computers or robots, and we don't take IT courses. It is why if you really want to protect your privacy or personal information, never used any social media sites using your real identity for you to protect yourself.

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When you said we then it is not possible to create an independent mobile device because not everyone is a techy to understand these things.Better don't use smartphones if we don't want our privacy to be invaded.Jailbreaking and rooting can do the needed things? Possibly if we overwrite with custom flash then it is possible to change the root permissions but it could do more harm than good for someone who don't understand these things.

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Creating a standalone device means going against the tech conglomerate doing business in the mobile device industry and I don't think it's easy to create such a device. There will be issues like bug fixes, software updates ... We use equipment made by them and accept their terms. Most people accept it because they are not tech-savvy.

hatshepsut93

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Watched the Epic Games' video from the article and found it a little bit distasteful. There's a genocide ongoing in China, North Korea has been a real-life 1984 for decades, and people get tortured in Belarus for going to protests right now, but when a private company decides to cut ties with another private company, that's the dictatorship, right?

Quote from: spy100 on August 25, 2020, 10:00:51 AM

We need to create a independent mobile device

Independent from whom? There are smaller OSs, you can already use them if you want. And if they will grow as big as Google and Apple, they'll probably engage in the same shitty practices.

And from practical point of view, there's always workarounds to such software restrictions, there are ways to install apps that aren't on app store, with or without rooting.

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Quote from: jackg on August 26, 2020, 11:18:26 AM

Yknow you could get a raspberry pi to do that? And current technology can allow you to turn a phone into a desktop pc (with a usb docking station).

There are a lot of mobile friendly Linux distros too. You're probably just after something the manufacturer is not going to be paid or offered support to install.

And yeah huawei have their own appstore I just checked.

Samsung also has its own app store (Galaxy Store). I think motorola also has one.

But all those initiatives fail because customers don't like them. Developers don't like them either.

Let's suppose you are a game developer with low budget and you are making a new game, an APP for mobile devices. You need to make money out of this app, fast.

What would be your top priority regarding OS compatibility? Ofc it would be android and iOS.

And now that your game is smooth in Android, iOS and the unpopulated and unkown Unbutu OS (as you are a very ideologic programmer you made your app very smooth in Ubuntu). But you need to publish it. will you publish in Galaxy Store, Huawei store? Ofc, if it is free. but that wont make you any money. You need to publish in Play Store and Apple Store.

There is a very weird process happening in the world right now. For the first time , 99% of the people really like and enjoy internet monopolies. People love Google and its products. People love Facebook Instagram and Whatsapp. People love android and iOS. Nobody wants to change that, but a few ( i am one of those few)

Quote

Mobile Operating System Market Share Worldwide - July 2020
Android
74.6%
iOS
24.82%
Samsung
0.21%
Unknown
0.13%
KaiOS
0.1%
Windows
0.04%
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide

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Quote from: jackg on August 26, 2020, 11:18:26 AM

Quote from: spy100 on August 26, 2020, 10:55:08 AM

It's not about app stores only... the device owner should pretty much install any OS he wants ... just like he does on his PC ...

We need to figure out how we can transform a Laptop/PC in to a mobile phone / tablet . And it must be easy to use by anyone.

Yknow you could get a raspberry pi to do that? And current technology can allow you to turn a phone into a desktop pc (with a usb docking station).

There are a lot of mobile friendly Linux distros too. You're probably just after something the manufacturer is not going to be paid or offered support to install.

And yeah huawei have their own appstore I just checked.

"And current technology can allow you to turn a phone into a desktop pc (with a usb docking station)."

i am talking about doing it the easy way for people that don't have tech skills ...the device owner should have full rights over his device ...

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Quote from: spy100 on August 26, 2020, 10:55:08 AM

It's not about app stores only... the device owner should pretty much install any OS he wants ... just like he does on his PC ...

We need to figure out how we can transform a Laptop/PC in to a mobile phone / tablet . And it must be easy to use by anyone.

Yknow you could get a raspberry pi to do that? And current technology can allow you to turn a phone into a desktop pc (with a usb docking station).

There are a lot of mobile friendly Linux distros too. You're probably just after something the manufacturer is not going to be paid or offered support to install.

And yeah huawei have their own appstore I just checked.

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Quote from: Reid on August 26, 2020, 10:11:04 AM

Quote from: spy100 on August 25, 2020, 10:22:34 AM

Quote from: jackg on August 25, 2020, 10:13:22 AM

Isn't there mobile versions of Linux operating systems now like Ubuntu? It's on companies to decide what they want to support, if you tried making an app store for apple, you'll get sued if you're not based in Europe because "socialism is bad even if it serves a good purpose".

As for the Google play store, there's the amazon appstore already. Some companies like huawei tried making their own too but they didn't last long/are still in development.

Nope there is no ubuntu os for devices ... pretty much each manufacturer adds his own OS and and he decides what apps he allows on the device .

And another problem after you buy the device it takes 2-3 year before you need to buy new one so you can upgrade to download apps .

They control what we see and what we do on the devices we buy ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I7vPbthvWo

Which is true.
I hate that kind of control. They keep on upgrading and so does the apps requirements so you have no choice buy to buy a new phone.

Do Google Play also profit in this kind of strategy?
If it weren't for them then maybe no one will buy a new phone again.
If that is so, then hell yeah, there is a need for a new manufacturer which will not rely on Google Play or Apple services.

Huawei has its own kind of playstore now right?

It's not about app stores only... the device owner should pretty much install any OS he wants ... just like he does on his PC ...

We need to figure out how we can transform a Laptop/PC in to a mobile phone / tablet . And it must be easy to use by anyone.

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Quote from: spy100 on August 25, 2020, 10:22:34 AM

Quote from: jackg on August 25, 2020, 10:13:22 AM

Isn't there mobile versions of Linux operating systems now like Ubuntu? It's on companies to decide what they want to support, if you tried making an app store for apple, you'll get sued if you're not based in Europe because "socialism is bad even if it serves a good purpose".

As for the Google play store, there's the amazon appstore already. Some companies like huawei tried making their own too but they didn't last long/are still in development.

Nope there is no ubuntu os for devices ... pretty much each manufacturer adds his own OS and and he decides what apps he allows on the device .

And another problem after you buy the device it takes 2-3 year before you need to buy new one so you can upgrade to download apps .

They control what we see and what we do on the devices we buy ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I7vPbthvWo

Which is true.
I hate that kind of control. They keep on upgrading and so does the apps requirements so you have no choice buy to buy a new phone.

Do Google Play also profit in this kind of strategy?
If it weren't for them then maybe no one will buy a new phone again.
If that is so, then hell yeah, there is a need for a new manufacturer which will not rely on Google Play or Apple services.

Huawei has its own kind of playstore now right?

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Quote from: spy100 on August 25, 2020, 10:00:51 AM

We need to create a independent mobile device

Here is one of the reasons why we need a mobile device that is not depending on app store or google play

https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21366438/apple-fortnite-ios-app-store-violations-epic-payments

There might be fortnite players strongly supporting this decision , see the thing is these large companies are doing nothing but using the small developers and paying even less than a minimum wage to a worker working for them in underdeveloped and developing countries.

All they care about is profit.

Problem with this would be : security

But at the same time we can create a third party open source system which might run on blockchain and at the same time get the thing done.The small developers can work together to make it secure and this way they can even beat the google play and even apple with right direction.

This will indeed start a revolution.

Apple after asking word press showed how greedy and jealous these big companies are, I like the idea but execution will be a little difficult.

Hydrogen

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Quote from: spy100 on August 25, 2020, 10:00:51 AM

Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

Apple says Epic is violating its App Store guidelines by using its own payment system

https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21366438/apple-fortnite-ios-app-store-violations-epic-payments

Years and years ago.

Apple originally discontinued support for flash to push their own competing multimedia technology. (What was apple's competing intellectual property at the time btw was it quicktime?)

Microsoft deliberately sabotages OpenGL's performance on windows to better push their own competing technology Direct X.

Apple kicking fortnite off their app store may seem like an isolated incident, an exception. In reality its normalized and more common than most realize.

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Well, this is quite a laborious job, and it really takes a lot of preparation.

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Quote from: ChiBitCTy on August 25, 2020, 11:57:03 AM

Are you referring to something like this? https://impulse.technology/ . For the record I think this company is a scam and I'm not really sure this device really even exists. This is made by the company Karatbars who's a player in the bullion game. They make some cool gold notes/coins. They are also involved in cryptocurrency and have a couple different coins. Again, I think they aren't to be trusted ( have some pending legal issues ).

we dont know yet if this "new technology" can really deliver what they are lobbying for. how solid is their technology with potential hacking scenarios? since they are new, they dont have the record of that yet. so we need more time how to assess their real performance once users are really using their technology. but right now, i dont think we can trust this new technology especially that they have pending legal issues. so we dont know how tight is their security system or who knows, they may have backdoor that we dont know of?

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Are you referring to something like this? https://impulse.technology/ . For the record I think this company is a scam and I'm not really sure this device really even exists. This is made by the company Karatbars who's a player in the bullion game. They make some cool gold notes/coins. They are also involved in cryptocurrency and have a couple different coins. Again, I think they aren't to be trusted ( have some pending legal issues ).

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Quote from: jackg on August 25, 2020, 10:13:22 AM

Isn't there mobile versions of Linux operating systems now like Ubuntu? It's on companies to decide what they want to support, if you tried making an app store for apple, you'll get sued if you're not based in Europe because "socialism is bad even if it serves a good purpose".

As for the Google play store, there's the amazon appstore already. Some companies like huawei tried making their own too but they didn't last long/are still in development.

Nope there is no ubuntu os for devices ... pretty much each manufacturer adds his own OS and and he decides what apps he allows on the device .

And another problem after you buy the device it takes 2-3 year before you need to buy new one so you can upgrade to download apps .

They control what we see and what we do on the devices we buy ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I7vPbthvWo

jackg

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Isn't there mobile versions of Linux operating systems now like Ubuntu? It's on companies to decide what they want to support, if you tried making an app store for apple, you'll get sued if you're not based in Europe because "socialism is bad even if it serves a good purpose".

As for the Google play store, there's the amazon appstore already. Some companies like huawei tried making their own too but they didn't last long/are still in development.

spy100

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We need to create a independent mobile device

Here is one of the reasons why we need a mobile device that is not depending on app store or google play

https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21366438/apple-fortnite-ios-app-store-violations-epic-payments

Topic: We need to create a independent mobile device (Read 298 times)