We overlooked this little thing: Bitcoin is officially a commodity

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legendary

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Quote from: highalch on January 11, 2024, 07:02:18 AM

I believe also Gensler said while testifying that it's a commodity, but the communication was shady and confusing,

I do agree that the statement was shady, especially the part which vaguley linked Bitcoin to terrorist financing while claiming to be neutral;

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Though we’re merit neutral, I’d note that the underlying assets in the metals ETPs have consumer and industrial uses, while in contrast bitcoin is primarily a speculative, volatile asset that’s also used for illicit activity including ransomware, money laundering, sanction evasion, and terrorist financing.

While we approved the listing and trading of certain spot bitcoin ETP shares today, we did not approve or endorse bitcoin. Investors should remain cautious about the myriad risks associated with bitcoin and products whose value is tied to crypto.

The links provided to back up their claim has little substance with most of it being speculative.

takuma sato

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Gary has to say that because what else could he say? The SEC has approved the ETF, so the vehicle of investment has to be defined one way or another. If it is not a security, then it is a commodity. And they definitely did not want to talk about it as a currency since that would make it look like a legit alternative to the CBDCs that they will launch. In any case, the impact on the price has been a classic sell the new events, now we will see just how much of a frontrun was this vs legit demand. Its been pumping for months and ROIs are crazy on proxies like miners and MSTR, cooldown incoming, 42k, 39k, 30k supports on the line, we'll see if those hold before halving effect kicks in.

zasad@

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Quote from: hugeblack on January 13, 2024, 04:05:45 AM

Quote from: zasad@ on January 11, 2024, 06:07:27 AM

Now large investors do not need crypto exchanges; they can buy ETFs on large stock exchanges.

Yes, the only difference is that investment funds are forced to buy what it is worth for each satoshi that is printed, and therefore it is more likely that there will be dozens of platforms that may buy Bitcoin and there is liquidity for that.
The only difference between them and CEXs will be that you can withdraw Bitcoin to your wallet in the case of CEXs, while you cannot do that with ETFs, but the target investor group is people interested in the value of Bitcoin, not Bitcoin.

I am sure that in order to deposit and withdraw a large number of bitcoins from CEX will be a big problem for many companies. This is both the risk of blocking and the risk of storing an asset, and in the case of a spot ETF, this is more convenient for large players and companies will not disappear from the market.

hugeblack

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Quote from: zasad@ on January 11, 2024, 06:07:27 AM

Now large investors do not need crypto exchanges; they can buy ETFs on large stock exchanges.

Yes, the only difference is that investment funds are forced to buy what it is worth for each satoshi that is printed, and therefore it is more likely that there will be dozens of platforms that may buy Bitcoin and there is liquidity for that.
The only difference between them and CEXs will be that you can withdraw Bitcoin to your wallet in the case of CEXs, while you cannot do that with ETFs, but the target investor group is people interested in the value of Bitcoin, not Bitcoin.

Poker Player

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Quote from: zasad@ on January 11, 2024, 06:07:27 AM

Bitcoin was already a commodity, only now it is spelled out in law.

That is what I have defended in this section. The bitcoin can not be created or issue at will, only mined and there is a finite amount, plus it is a demanded good. Therefore it is a commodity, regardless of whether a given country recognizes it as such or not. If it recognizes it for what it is, so much the better.

Quote from: Oshosondy on January 11, 2024, 06:39:20 AM

Bitcoin is not security in anyway like those ethereum and all those premined coins. Also that many of those coins are using PoS which makes them securities.

Even if SEC do not yet call bitcoin a commodity, it is clear that it is a commodity. It was a commodity since the day it was created, unlike the altcoins.

Precisely this I have also defended in other threads in this same section.

So some of us didn't overlook it at all, OP.

zasad@

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Quote from: BenCodie on January 11, 2024, 06:52:18 AM

The CFTC had already stated that Bitcoin was considered to be a commodity in 2015:

Coindesk coverage - CFTC ruling defines Bitcoin and Digital Currencies as commodities.

Here is another interesting article CFTC - A primer on digital currencies.

The CFTC also released a dummy version of the above later in 2019, Bitcoin Basics, which clearly defines how this agency defines Bitcoin.

It did go over peoples heads for a long time, it still does.

This is a political struggle for sphere of influence. The larger your sphere of influence, the larger your budget. This is how politics works in the US. Therefore, there are more than 20 special services that are engaged in similar activities.
The CFTC was interested in having Bitcoin recognized as a commodity in order to gain more control over it. But the SEC doesn't want to give its piece of the pie to anyone.

highalch

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Quote from: Oshosondy on January 11, 2024, 06:39:20 AM

This is not the first time that SEC will say bitcoin is a commodity.

I believe also Gensler said while testifying that it's a commodity, but the communication was shady and confusing,
and this has never been put in written form by the SEC - as to my knowledge.

BenCodie

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The CFTC had already stated that Bitcoin was considered to be a commodity in 2015:

Coindesk coverage - CFTC ruling defines Bitcoin and Digital Currencies as commodities.

Here is another interesting article CFTC - A primer on digital currencies.

The CFTC also released a dummy version of the above later in 2019, Bitcoin Basics, which clearly defines how this agency defines Bitcoin.

It did go over peoples heads for a long time, it still does.

Oshosondy

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This is not the first time that SEC will say bitcoin is a commodity. I have been seeing it since 2020. Even I think the former SEC president also admitted that bitcoin is a commodity.

What I do not just like is the CFTC wants to recognize ethereum as a commodity. I do not know what game the CFTC president is playing.

Bitcoin is not security in anyway like those ethereum and all those premined coins. Also that many of those coins are using PoS which makes them securities.

Even if SEC do not yet call bitcoin a commodity, it is clear that it is a commodity. It was a commodity since the day it was created, unlike the altcoins.

zasad@

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Quote from: highalch on January 11, 2024, 05:42:39 AM

Quoting from the official SEC announcement, for the first time, Gary Gensler officially claims bitcoin is a commodity

Quote

Importantly, today’s Commission action is cabined to ETPs holding one non-security commodity, bitcoin.

Source: https://www.sec.gov/news/statement/gensler-statement-spot-bitcoin-011023

This means SEC will not practice any kind of regulatory oversight on onchain bitcoin activities in the future.

Bitcoin was already a commodity, only now it is spelled out in law. There were no sales of Bitcoin, and who should the SEC bring charges against?

If you read official documents, the concept of ETP is used there. This is the legal name of the ETF, which is used in documents.
Now large investors do not need crypto exchanges; they can buy ETFs on large stock exchanges.

highalch

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Quoting from the official SEC announcement, for the first time, Gary Gensler officially claims bitcoin is a commodity

Quote

Importantly, today’s Commission action is cabined to ETPs holding one non-security commodity, bitcoin.

Source: https://www.sec.gov/news/statement/gensler-statement-spot-bitcoin-011023

This means SEC will not practice any kind of regulatory oversight on onchain bitcoin activities in the future.

Topic: We overlooked this little thing: Bitcoin is officially a commodity (Read 129 times)