whale tactics? | Bitcointalksearch.org

Emitdama

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Quote from: XZERO1 on March 29, 2021, 06:03:45 AM

you could easily do that with low cap altcoins, on centralized exchanges it's a bit risky as they have their own trading bots which could complicate things.

I don't think any legit centralized trading platform have their own bots for trading to complicate things. There are some low-life exchanges that display fake volumes and trading data but you can't say the same for good exchanges like Binance.

Quote from: XZERO1 on March 29, 2021, 06:03:45 AM

as for Uniswap or similar platforms you can just buy a low cap altcoin with lower trading volume on the dip and with buying from time to time increase the price slowly and many other traders seeing the price go up they would probably join you and make it even easier to pump and when it reached to your price point you can start selling slowly and make a good money out of it, I'm pretty sure that many whales even have their own bots that can do that and they just have to configure it differently for different tokens and trading setups.

Yes, but right now because of high transaction fees on ETH network, I think uniswap is no more a good option.

Quote from: XZERO1 on March 29, 2021, 06:03:45 AM

It goes without saying that it's not very smart doing that with absolute shitcoins as the sell pressure might be too high and it might not work as you wanted it too.

This is precisely the reason why I trade at known centralized exchanges instead of decentralized or lesser known exchanges because the trusted exchanges will only list good coins so at least the market won't collapse suddenly.

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Quote from: XZERO1 on March 29, 2021, 06:03:45 AM

Yep, you could easily do that with low cap altcoins, on centralized exchanges it's a bit risky as they have their own trading bots which could complicate things.

But as for Uniswap or similar platforms you can just buy a low cap altcoin with lower trading volume on the dip and with buying from time to time increase the price slowly and many other traders seeing the price go up they would probably join you and make it even easier to pump and when it reached to your price point you can start selling slowly and make a good money out of it, I'm pretty sure that many whales even have their own bots that can do that and they just have to configure it differently for different tokens and trading setups.

It goes without saying that it's not very smart doing that with absolute shitcoins as the sell pressure might be too high and it might not work as you wanted it too.

That has been done on centralized exchanges a long time before uniswap was even a thing. You have to realize it is not easy to trade on uniswap because it's very expensive, the ETH fee is incredibly high so thats why making a profit on that is very difficult as well, if you are looking for a profit on this method with a decentralized exchange you should be looking at things like pancakeswap where it is BSC and the fee is very little.

However those are not always loved neither, which is why I do not think that it will matter that much neither, people may not join you. So, it is harder to do this on a uniswap or pancake or any swap at decentralized exchanges. Centralized places however has a bigger chance to do this, people could get hyped and they could see that there is a lot of buys and sells and liquidity if you are rich enough you can make it look like that and get people hyped about it, and then get out when they jump in.

XZERO1

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Yep, you could easily do that with low cap altcoins, on centralized exchanges it's a bit risky as they have their own trading bots which could complicate things.

But as for Uniswap or similar platforms you can just buy a low cap altcoin with lower trading volume on the dip and with buying from time to time increase the price slowly and many other traders seeing the price go up they would probably join you and make it even easier to pump and when it reached to your price point you can start selling slowly and make a good money out of it, I'm pretty sure that many whales even have their own bots that can do that and they just have to configure it differently for different tokens and trading setups.

It goes without saying that it's not very smart doing that with absolute shitcoins as the sell pressure might be too high and it might not work as you wanted it too.

sana54210

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Quote from: martina14 on March 28, 2021, 07:43:19 AM

There are some traders that if they see there is a 10% to their capital they set it up on it to that price, in short your profit
will depend on your goal target. Because if you want to earn big you need to set it up at the higher level of price value.
This is usually applied in a different individual traders actually were up to the present they do this pump and dump methods.

Those people decide on when to take profit whenever they want, it is not an easy thing to handle and it takes some courage to wait for it to happen but when it happens they take the biggest profit, this is why I think it is obvious for some people to be great traders and some people are not great traders. The reality is that if you are a person who is too emotional that means you are going to end up not being a good trader and that's why some people end up losing money.

However there are some people who can buy at 60k dollars, and make a profit even if it goes to 20k, because they end up buying more and dropping average and waiting no matter how much they have to and end up selling when it goes back up. There are just way too many people who would make a profit from this, there is nothing that people should be worried about if they can wait for the price to go back up.

martina14

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

There are some traders that if they see there is a 10% to their capital they set it up on it to that price, in short your profit
will depend on your goal target. Because if you want to earn big you need to set it up at the higher level of price value.
This is usually applied in a different individual traders actually were up to the present they do this pump and dump methods.

Mahanton

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Quote from: Spaffin on March 25, 2021, 12:52:01 PM

Quote from: Smitty Werben Man Jensen on March 25, 2021, 12:02:22 PM

don't we go against the tactics of the whales, why? because if you fight then you will lose, trading has rules, the first don't fight the trend, the second don't be greedy, and the third buy gradually, this is the rule of good trading, if you fight the whales, then you are also called against the trend, so you must be follow the whales tactics

We have small amounts of cryptocurrency funds compared to the assets of the big whales, and therefore we cannot resist their manipulation in the cryptocurrency market. In fact, we cannot influence the processes, of course, if we are not talking about some coin that has a small trading volume and therefore each trader can influence the price that is at the moment. But as for the leaders of the cryptocurrency market, we accept the current situation and try to adapt to it.

Why would try to oppose if we arent financially capabled on doing such thing?Its better to go with the flow rather than on making out some issues about manipulation.
When it comes to any market then these whales does really exist no matter what because there are individuals or companies which are really that capable on buying in bulks
and it can really make out some significant effect into the market.Tactics? you can say so from time to time because they wouldnt really make any move that they wont
really benefit out.So instead on stressing yourself on how things do happen then better go with the flow and be wise on how to ride of with those waves.

angrynerd88

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It can say its all around law of demand and supply tactic. Individuals acknowledge buying and offering with the current cost, and indeed in case the cost is tall or lower, individuals will still do simply.If have to be compelled to purchase low and offer tall, and in the event that you think that you simply as of now tank a pleasant benefit, you'll halt and leave the showcase and let the cost moves. In some cases, the cost will go down lower than the final time moo cost, but it can go tall without anticipating. Which is the pump coming at the advertise.

Spaffin

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Quote from: Smitty Werben Man Jensen on March 25, 2021, 12:02:22 PM

don't we go against the tactics of the whales, why? because if you fight then you will lose, trading has rules, the first don't fight the trend, the second don't be greedy, and the third buy gradually, this is the rule of good trading, if you fight the whales, then you are also called against the trend, so you must be follow the whales tactics

We have small amounts of cryptocurrency funds compared to the assets of the big whales, and therefore we cannot resist their manipulation in the cryptocurrency market. In fact, we cannot influence the processes, of course, if we are not talking about some coin that has a small trading volume and therefore each trader can influence the price that is at the moment. But as for the leaders of the cryptocurrency market, we accept the current situation and try to adapt to it.

Smitty Werben Man Jensen

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don't we go against the tactics of the whales, why? because if you fight then you will lose, trading has rules, the first don't fight the trend, the second don't be greedy, and the third buy gradually, this is the rule of good trading, if you fight the whales, then you are also called against the trend, so you must be follow the whales tactics

LUCKMCFLY

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A tactic of the whales is that when they want to buy, they want to do it very cheaply, the easiest thing for them is to generate news that is bad to cause panic in the weak hands, when they manage to launch bad news, people begin to sell no matter what nothing, because they think the important thing is not to lose. Some generate through social networks, others are owners of TV, news channels, some FUD, now any tweet from a celebrity can lift or forget a coin, I think that now the tools of millionaires are more accessible, the bad news They come faster than the good ones, this is how you can start that kind of strategy.

In the same way, to want the whales to sell, they can generate good news for people to buy while they sell.Currently the market has been moving due to people's emotions, emotions are what whales always want to manipulate, that is why the great power of social networks.

CryptopreneurBrainboss

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Quote from: longyenthanh on March 21, 2021, 02:33:23 AM

Whales are everywhere be it stock, commodity or crypto. Better not to go against whales rather swim with them, you will get your profit. Whenever market goes down, buy and when it goes up to your target price, sell. Don't bother what whales are doing.

Not been bothered about what move the whale are making means you have to position your mind to be an investor and the investment has to be a long termed investment and not weekly or few days investment. Whale are capable of influencing the outcome of the market, therefore their every moves need to be studies closely to understand what's the possible out come of the coins they're interested in.

Whale manipulation isn't just associated with the cryptocurency market, other market has had their fair share of whales manipulation whether indirectly through causing a buzz around certain projecy or directly through buying into certain project or off loading their bags causing fud (panic) among retail investors or traders.

Ziskinberg

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Quote from: longyenthanh on March 21, 2021, 02:33:23 AM

Whales are everywhere be it stock, commodity or crypto. Better not to go against whales rather swim with them, you will get your profit. Whenever market goes down, buy and when it goes up to your target price, sell. Don't bother what whales are doing.

Perhaps, we are also having the benefits with them. They do the hypes, put some trap and dump the market, they are eventually doing this always. It comes to a trick and if we are not aware of this, we will end up caught in a trap. That is we need to be careful and we need to analyze the market first before making a buy. If we got in perfect timing, able to buy at low, then it is really great.

Wawa2013

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The whales strategy is a pump and dump strategy that has been mentioned by many members of this forum, with large capital owned by whales,
allows whales to pump and dump some coins. Usually whales often make shitcoins suddenly pump high and turn small investors into FOMO,
and finally getting small investors to buy coins at high prices. Therefore, don't buy shitcoins, especially if the price is suddenly pumped.

Then whales also take advantage of the large capital they have to make a massive dump on top coins, create panic and make some investors sell
their coins at low prices and whales can buy top coins at low prices. So if we HODL some top coins with high volume, if a massive dump occurs,
there's no need to panic and be patient with HODL that coins. Usually it won't take long for the coins to increase in price.

wiss19

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Quote from: so98nn on March 18, 2021, 02:14:15 AM

Many of them are calling it pump and dump strategy but it seems more or less other tactics. May be without a name but it could be called as resisting trading. I do this all the time because bitcoin is all about volatility and we must dominate this volatility to keep ourselves in the profits.

You have a good name for it lol Grin

. I couldn’t name it anything better than this. This is something I do like most of the times to make sure that I’m keeping my profit and I think it’s really important (for me and I don’t know for other because everyone has their own different strategy).

When I invest and the market goes up and then it starts going down, I have to sell some of the coins and I just keep doing that and if it happens to below my first buying point then I will have to invest again to make sure I get it at that lower price point and wait for another increase. But, I always make sure to study the market very well so that I am sure I’m doing anything I’m doing at the right time.

longyenthanh

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Whales are everywhere be it stock, commodity or crypto. Better not to go against whales rather swim with them, you will get your profit. Whenever market goes down, buy and when it goes up to your target price, sell. Don't bother what whales are doing.

iv4n

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Quote from: mersal on March 20, 2021, 12:22:47 AM

Whale tactics may works only if yiu have trading capital which is enough to alter the price of bitcoin itself for that you may need few millions to execute it properly. But the strategy is similar, sell when the price is high and wait for the price to be lowered then buy again hold it until the price gets higher.

Capital is just one thing, people here forget about the timeframe and other traders! You see, those pump and dump manipulations happen in hours, while many people sleep! Because any capital can be overrun by a group of people that can have more than you... What I wish to say, it's never just one factor like capital... there is time, skills, etc...

Recent Wall Stree/RobinHood/Gamestop shares situation is a great example of how whales can fall big time! How a group of people (a pretty large group of people) can fight with whales! I guess guys from Wall Street thought it will be an easy game for them, but definitely, they didn't count that group of people from Reddit can interfere and make a real mess on the market! Learn from this situation!

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Quote from: Kasabus on March 17, 2021, 09:21:04 AM

Dump and Pump are known tactics for everyone. It is either the whales doing this but deep inside, as a trader and holders are also benefiting from it.
You'll be lucky if you buy certain coins at low and have a chance to sell them during the hypes because not all the time that we have experiencing like that and very unfortunate that this kind of strategy been to slow down this time, not like how it has done last 2017 where we are surprised that even shitcoins just shoot up.

I do not know why people still bother with pump and dump tactics, they know what is happening and what will be the results if they fail so why do they keep investing in coins that are susceptible to this phenomenon?

It seems to me they are obsessed with obtaining big profits in a short amount of time with a small amount of capital trying to capture the early days of bitcoin when you could buy for cheap and then sell it for a fortune, but what happened with bitcoin is not something that happens every day, those days are over and are not going to come back, but on the bright side they can invest in bitcoin now and still obtain big profits if they are willing to hold their coins for the long term.

JooBra

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Quote from: whyrqa on March 20, 2021, 08:01:35 AM

Quote from: mersal on March 20, 2021, 12:22:47 AM

Whale tactics may works only if yiu have trading capital which is enough to alter the price of bitcoin itself for that you may need few millions to execute it properly. But the strategy is similar, sell when the price is high and wait for the price to be lowered then buy again hold it until the price gets higher.

Then when big whales come into play in the cryptocurrency market, then even during a bull run, big corrections happen. It is then that the big Akitas fix their profits, which brings in a fairly large income, thanks to the huge volumes of assets. But we can only follow the market, making investments for a long period, and at the right time, at the very beginning of the correction, sell at a higher price, and then buy at a lower price, exactly as you said.

The whales now are big mining pools who sell from time to time. We see that with big China pools who sell the BTC almost a weeks notice. I hope we see less of that in future.

whyrqa

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Quote from: mersal on March 20, 2021, 12:22:47 AM

Whale tactics may works only if yiu have trading capital which is enough to alter the price of bitcoin itself for that you may need few millions to execute it properly. But the strategy is similar, sell when the price is high and wait for the price to be lowered then buy again hold it until the price gets higher.

Then when big whales come into play in the cryptocurrency market, then even during a bull run, big corrections happen. It is then that the big Akitas fix their profits, which brings in a fairly large income, thanks to the huge volumes of assets. But we can only follow the market, making investments for a long period, and at the right time, at the very beginning of the correction, sell at a higher price, and then buy at a lower price, exactly as you said.

mersal

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Whale tactics may works only if yiu have trading capital which is enough to alter the price of bitcoin itself for that you may need few millions to execute it properly. But the strategy is similar, sell when the price is high and wait for the price to be lowered then buy again hold it until the price gets higher.

DeadCoin

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There are too many tactics that whales can do in the market. Spreading FUD and FOMO is one of their best strategies and now pump and dump are most commonly heard from them. But wait, there is new aside from that, using the most influencer people that might whale can make a better movement in the market. We know that this happened to Elon Musk several times and probably he will continue using this tactic in the long run.

As normal investors of bitcoin or crypto, we should learn previous that we should not do panic selling, the more we do panic the more they laugh at us.

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Quote from: AakZaki on March 18, 2021, 07:32:29 PM

tactics like this will cause the effect of panic buy and panic sell. when the price starts to pump, the price will continue to rise and some people will also start to enter so that later there will be FOMO which makes the coin rise drastically. Then when the Pope gets his profit they will start selling it, things will turn around, the price will start to fall and people who have just entered at the high price will panic to sell it back.
many are stuck with this tactic and make some people lose because they cannot take advantage of the flash pump and dump market situation.

This is how the whales make money, with them dumping their coins and knowing the direction, they can trade based on that and make more money besides the coins that they have sold to flood the market, in cases like this, you have to think like a whale and do the opposite of what the other is currently doing because that was what the whale intended, for many people to lose and for the few whales to win.

AakZaki

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tactics like this will cause the effect of panic buy and panic sell. when the price starts to pump, the price will continue to rise and some people will also start to enter so that later there will be FOMO which makes the coin rise drastically. Then when the Pope gets his profit they will start selling it, things will turn around, the price will start to fall and people who have just entered at the high price will panic to sell it back.
many are stuck with this tactic and make some people lose because they cannot take advantage of the flash pump and dump market situation.

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Quote from: JohnBitCo on March 18, 2021, 03:49:57 AM

Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

That's the tactics used by the whales. Since they have a big quantity of the coins with them which they bought at low prices, so if they dump straight away it will dump the market but at same time they won't have buyers order to whom they can sell. So they usually sell some portion and then let the market recovers and then sell more.

follow the strategy of whales, if you can't fight it then join in, this is what I learned from a movie,
yes the whales strategy is very easy to guess if you are an old player, but I'm not sure new players will avoid this, because many new traders buy high selling low, of course it is wrong, because if you play like that your capital will run out, play like whales do, or you can join him, the most important thing is not to be greedy when trading.

JohnBitCo

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

That's the tactics used by the whales. Since they have a big quantity of the coins with them which they bought at low prices, so if they dump straight away it will dump the market but at same time they won't have buyers order to whom they can sell. So they usually sell some portion and then let the market recovers and then sell more.

so98nn

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Many of them are calling it pump and dump strategy but it seems more or less other tactics. May be without a name but it could be called as resisting trading. I do this all the time because bitcoin is all about volatility and we must dominate this volatility to keep ourselves in the profits. The low value is when you buy, when it goes higher you sell but you don’t stop it here. When the value goes down again you must re-invest your money plus profit and repeat this cycle until you get equal or more amount you invested. That’s resistance trading. For me. Cheesy

santiPOGI

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

This whale tactics based on your explanation, might also be the way by some of the ordinary traders to gain in the future in the actual
trade, isn't that right? And this methods also implemented by the majority of the community traders here in this field of cryptocurrency
business.

Inspiron14

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

maybe this is a selling strategy for bag holders, because the system of bag holders is to buy when the price continues to decrease gradually, and sell when the price increases gradually, there is no definite name for the strategy, the most important thing about trading is the individual himself, profit is number 1,
it doesn't matter how complicated the strategy you implement, the important thing is that it generates a profit.

Shasha80

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Actually, buying at a low price and selling at a high price, then when the price falls, buy again and sell again when the price is pumped. Such tactics
are carried out by all traders, not only by whales. What distinguishes ordinary traders and whales is only in the amount of capital in my opinion.
Whales have very large capital, which is able to move market prices. Therefore because the crypto market moves based on supply and demand,
whales with large capital can manipulate market prices.

Hippocrypto

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

You can't sustain doing pump and dump for several times, there's a system monitoring in each exchanges. We can't beat the super computers programmed to deal on this situations which most traders did so many ways. Sometimes we may win on this strategy but it was unfortunate for those who didn't master how to trade using this method.
It needs more experience before engaging this kind of tactics, specially when you don't have huge funds to risk same with the whales.

Kasabus

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Dump and Pump are known tactics for everyone. It is either the whales doing this but deep inside, as a trader and holders are also benefiting from it.
You'll be lucky if you buy certain coins at low and have a chance to sell them during the hypes because not all the time that we have experiencing like that and very unfortunate that this kind of strategy been to slow down this time, not like how it has done last 2017 where we are surprised that even shitcoins just shoot up.

perfect999

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

I wouldn’t say that what you have described here is pump and dump like other comments have said, this is not pump and dump, because in pump and dump what they do is to buy coins at cheaper and then they pump with their huge amount of money and once the price of that token is high they will sell it at that high rate, causing it to fall flat again.

But what you have described here is different from that, it’s just like someone investing at a lower price and then as the price goes high and starts going down again, they start selling bit by bit, so as to be cautious not to miss out if it eventually goes up again.

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Quote from: ven7net on March 08, 2021, 02:53:33 PM

Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

As I understand it, this is a tactic of recruiting positions due to price fluctuations. Personally, I recently encountered such a situation on one exchange, and due to a decrease and increase in the price of one crypto asset, I was able to increase my balance in BTC. At the same time, personally, I myself did not influence the price of the asset, but simply waited for the moment when one of the users buys or sells, but this works better when the asset is sold, then I buy cheaper and then resell it at a profit for myself. Probably this is just the moment that you described and if you can find such an opportunity, then you can certainly make good money on it.

The tactic is called 'rinse and repeat'. Whales force the price down for a cryptocurrency, with the aim to create a selling panic. They sit back for a while as markets scramble for cover, and then buy the same assets again.Bitcoin whales are like other majority asset holders: their movements have outsized impacts on the bitcoin market, either through increased volatility, decreased liquidity, or a combination of both. If the seller is trying to sell bitcoin for state currency, the lack of liquidity and large transaction size could put downward pressure on the price of bitcoin, as other market participants see the transaction and also try to sell

ven7net

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

As I understand it, this is a tactic of recruiting positions due to price fluctuations. Personally, I recently encountered such a situation on one exchange, and due to a decrease and increase in the price of one crypto asset, I was able to increase my balance in BTC. At the same time, personally, I myself did not influence the price of the asset, but simply waited for the moment when one of the users buys or sells, but this works better when the asset is sold, then I buy cheaper and then resell it at a profit for myself. Probably this is just the moment that you described and if you can find such an opportunity, then you can certainly make good money on it.

doctor877

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its a tactics and not everyone can do it. if not a pro, you can lose all your profits and even your capital in the process of doing this. its not a good way of trading especially for newbies. its also a good opportunity for those who know how to read signals and trading parameters to eat from the whales table and get out before they do.

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I think there's nothing new regarding the old process of the whales tactic which is the invest when the coin is stable to make a pump so for sure there are a lot of people getting more courage because they think the coin is going up again and comes with this trap. After the whales that the profit is enough they can pull out their investment without hesitation they can easily manipulate the market because they have a large number of coins so they don't worry too much profit is a profit it doesn't matter how much at the end of the day you set the goal is to earn.

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Whales give us more than what we expected in the market. Have we thought that we can reach $50k without them? Whales did this, reach people did this, and that because they are helping the market more alive and attractive. If some people think they are the one who benefits the hypes, if course not, because all of us are benefiting then. That is why you hold your Bitcoin for how many years because you are also hoping that one day, whales make you paid off.

I don't think we need to hate them but instead, we are so thankful to have them.

tvplus006

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Quote from: Kittygalore on March 08, 2021, 02:30:17 AM

Quote from: aoluain on February 28, 2021, 12:45:01 PM

yes its a tactic but you would want to have a good understanding of the markets
and be able to read the various charts and signals otherwise you could end up
buying back at a higher price than you sold at

That is not a problem for whales as they can offset the losses by leverage trading depending whether they have a loss or a profit. Not to mention that most whales have their own team of TA that helps them decide the trades that they are going to do.

There are a large number of institutional investors in the market, whose goals may be opposite at some point. In such cases, if your understanding of the market is excellent, you will incur losses. And this loss will be as large as the leverage you will use. It is for this reason, I think, that these very whales do not use margin.

Kittygalore

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Quote from: aoluain on February 28, 2021, 12:45:01 PM

yes its a tactic but you would want to have a good understanding of the markets
and be able to read the various charts and signals otherwise you could end up
buying back at a higher price than you sold at

That is not a problem for whales as they can offset the losses by leverage trading depending whether they have a loss or a profit. Not to mention that most whales have their own team of TA that helps them decide the trades that they are going to do.

tygeade

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Quote from: mk4 on February 28, 2021, 10:10:36 PM

Especially when talking about highly liquid trading pairs like BTC/USDT, good luck moving the price with only 2 BTC though. It would take A LOT more than 2 BTC to move to have a significant effect. With that low of a capital, your only chance with potentially manipulating prices is with low-cap altcoins.

Agreed. A few years ago that was a possibility if someone had 100k dollars they can play with the trading pairs but it is not so easy now.

Quote from: serjent05 on March 01, 2021, 07:39:44 AM

Isn't this a buy low sell high tactic? I won't call it a pump and dump because there is no organization or group that triggers the increase in price in your given scenario. You stated that the increase in price appears naturally and no one is manipulating the trade either.

It is rather called as day trading I would say where traders are just observing the market and acting accordingly.

Quote from: Hydrogen on March 01, 2021, 09:34:06 AM

The trouble with the strategy you're describing is once you've entered a sharply defined dump phase, prices usually don't rebound very far after confidence, faith and expectations are shattered by the sharp downtrend.

Yes, the market falls of even further below the expectations because when a dump is happening everyone who holds sell some coins at least which creates Domino effect.

boyptc

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Quote from: ?? on ??

In fact that is whales’ strategy how to earn a lot of money. So as whales hold thousands of BTC they have some influence on the market and can dump and pump it. But whales have some advantage of all the other traders. They know exactly where is the ATL and where is the ATH because they regulate this processes.

They have the advantage to make the market dump or pump. They rinse and repeat the activity they do.

If they sell many bitcoins at the same time, the market will be moved and when they have the profit already. They will wait for the market to plunge and will buy those cheap bitcoins again.

And then, the market will pump.

Oilacris

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

Maybe you do talk about average down in forex terms where you are trying out to accumulate even if its way heading down but be careful because accumulating much might result
on ending up to further losses if you havent realized that you had bought too much.

When it comes to whale tactics then its pretty common but we wouldnt know on when they do make out such moves because you cant point out if this one
is a whale doing or just simple retail traders do make out the same move.

And this is what makes trading even way more harder.

boyptc

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BTFD for shortcut. Tongue

I don't usually use that term but as long as it goes down, just buy the dip. That's what we say with that strategy. Take your profits and wait until it goes lower.

Just a cycle of strategy that you can repeatedly do.

Ridwan Fauzi

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We can't avoid it in this market, for those who have a huge money they could change the market movement. Although there is a bad fundamental factor if they buy the coin then the market sentiment will change.

Because this thing can't be predicted, when bitcoin price is low we will expect the price will go low more than that so as we can buy at the lower price, otherwise when bitcoin price up we will be afraid that there will be a correction.

Moreover with many instutional investor who interested to bitcoin, the pump and dump scenario will always happen. But, if we know that this can be an opportunity for us as retail investor. One thing that we should know, when bitcoin price is drop then there will be a time for the price up quickly because the other intutional investor will buy at a certain price.

palle11

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

Pump and dump is not only a whale strategy. Not until you hodl many coin so high in price that you are a whale or that you have pumped it, you can pump by creating fund about it even when you have little of the coin. You can create such panic by making stories up. However, pumping to dump a coin doesn't really go the way it is planned. You pump a coin but may not have understanding of the height of the coin and may hodl until others dump before you do.

michellee

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If I bought at a low price, and the price now is high, I will not sell at once, but I will sell for some portion and hold the rest for the next higher price. If the price does not increase higher but the price is down, I will buy it again using that, but I will not use the profit to buy that coin and will keep it in my account. I do not sell when the price goes lower to a lower price because that will make my profit smaller. I do not know the name for that tactic, but maybe that buys low and sells high.

jaberwock

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

Lol what are we going to call that tactics, a Pump-Dump-Pump? Huh

Because, you bought at lower price and let’s assume that the investment you made at a lower price increased the market price of the asset and then you sold to bring it lower, if your investment can actually bring that asset to a lower price when you sold it, then you’re really the one pumping and dumping the coin.

If you invest back at a fraction of the price you bought it for you’re going to pumping it again I guess. Anyway I don’t think such thing can happen with Bitcoin because the market is really big now, it’s only all these small altcoins that faces such.

thirdprize

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Quote from: justdimin on March 03, 2021, 04:40:26 AM

I believe that kind of DCA is something that would work for anyone, not just whale but any small time investor as well. First of all, if you have 100 bucks you do not care about this, not like you are going to suddenly get rich from buying bitcoin, hell even if it did 10x from here (which is quite difficult) you would still have only 1000 dollars and I do not care where you live, even if you live in the poorest nations in the world, you are going to end up with something that would profit you in the end but not change your life, you can't live with that kind of money forever, hence I believe we should not really be looking at that as a good investment.

However if you invest a bit more, you could basically have a decent amount of grinding that would mean something, so you should both invest more and invest into alts as well to make a decent return and best way to do that is DCA considering how volatile they are.

I have heard about that method. What is it called and are there any more details anywhere?

thirdprize

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Quote from: darewaller on March 02, 2021, 05:37:03 AM

Well, then maybe it can be termed as Dump and Pump, as you sell the coins you hold and then once you get the money from selling, you can then buy and hence pump the market. I don't think its much of a difference because either ways anyone manipulating the market is playing pump and dump.

That sounds more like it.

Sterbens

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whales we can't reach and can't tell when they Pump 'and when they Dump. even when we fell asleep, they actually did dump and we didn't have time to choose a partner to secure our portfolio. well this is a tradition where we feel the manipulation should end soon and let the market move naturally. but it can't be denied that the whales have made us 100x profit and even 100x lost. So we acted as bait for dumping and hook for pumping.

jrrsparkles

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

That's the basics of a trading an asset, as long as you didn't sell at your lower low then you will be in profits but never try yo sell simply because someone is selling somewhere which is the tactic to get manipulated.

justdimin

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Quote from: ubercool on March 02, 2021, 05:47:28 AM

It's a common tactic in investments. When you buy or sell, don't do it all at once, you go with the slabs, that way your average purchase rate will get lower than your first purchase rate and it will be easier to break even in a red market. This tactic also works the opposite way in the Bull market, like if you had sold all your BQX when it was first doubled at 900 sat then you won't be making any profit now when it has reached 13.7k sat. Cry

I believe that kind of DCA is something that would work for anyone, not just whale but any small time investor as well. First of all, if you have 100 bucks you do not care about this, not like you are going to suddenly get rich from buying bitcoin, hell even if it did 10x from here (which is quite difficult) you would still have only 1000 dollars and I do not care where you live, even if you live in the poorest nations in the world, you are going to end up with something that would profit you in the end but not change your life, you can't live with that kind of money forever, hence I believe we should not really be looking at that as a good investment.

However if you invest a bit more, you could basically have a decent amount of grinding that would mean something, so you should both invest more and invest into alts as well to make a decent return and best way to do that is DCA considering how volatile they are.

so98nn

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Quote from: mk4 on February 28, 2021, 10:10:36 PM

Quote from: dansus021 on February 28, 2021, 09:41:04 PM

Yes

its happen like everyday, check it https://whale-alert.io/ or just simply on binance using 2 BTC for market ordering considering as whale

Especially when talking about highly liquid trading pairs like BTC/USDT, good luck moving the price with only 2 BTC though. It would take A LOT more than 2 BTC to move to have a significant effect. With that low of a capital, your only chance with potentially manipulating prices is with low-cap altcoins.

Agree. Considering the current market cap for the BTC you will need bigger amounts of BTC to move the price even slightly. Remember how the price of bitcoin surged with 3-4 thousand USD's when Elon invested around 1.5 Billion USD. That's the huge amount of BTC to move the market. Now just imagine if you want to make 1-2% change in the value of BTC then you will need to check the daily trading volume in buying order and selling orders. You will have to overcome the selling cost for sure so that you can make mega move.

But, obviously you will need very fat wallet and mindset that you will loose huge in the process.

pooya87

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Quote from: imstillthebest on March 02, 2021, 06:42:29 AM

Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

keep selling lower to lower the price.

i dont get this .
why would you sell low when you already done selling at a higher price and selling low dont make the price of the coin low but it was when we sell at high all together .

You shouldn't think about bitcoin when you read OP because it is not about bitcoin, it works perfectly for shitcoins though. For example look at any of the altcoins in CMC, if you sell a large enough amount of them their market crashes. Most of them with very small amount of money like 0.1BTC. Then you can also follow that up with a pump.
Like shitcoin that went from 1000 satoshi to 200 then was pumped to 5000 before dumping again to 900. This whole process is filled with a lot of profit for the pump and dumpers and it is very easy to do to any of the altcoins.

Julien_Olynpic

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In fact, whales have many tactics. Much more than you think. The tactics that the author describes are quite dangerous. After all, your sales can be outbid by other whales. Typically, selling pressure alone isn't enough. It is advisable to add negative information background. FOOD. It is necessary to catch up on the depression on the holders of the asset and impose a pessimistic view of the asset on people.

danherbias07

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This works if you have the highest shares. Grin

You will need like 30-50 percent of the total amount of coin just to make it move.
And there is no assurance it will.
Trying to join with groups of high amount holders will do the trick.

I don't know what its called but it could be just simply "trading". Grin

In businesses it normally happens. Buy bulks with the lowest bidder then sell it high in retail.

imstillthebest

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

keep selling lower to lower the price.

i dont get this .
why would you sell low when you already done selling at a higher price and selling low dont make the price of the coin low but it was when we sell at high all together .

Quote

people like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

if the price go down below your buying limit that is great because you can buy for more .
i guess the name of that tactic is buy low sell high because that is what your trying to portray .

its not what you called a whale tactic but whales do use this tactic in addition to the advanced tactics that they have

ubercool

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It's a common tactic in investments. When you buy or sell, don't do it all at once, you go with the slabs, that way your average purchase rate will get lower than your first purchase rate and it will be easier to break even in a red market. This tactic also works the opposite way in the Bull market, like if you had sold all your BQX when it was first doubled at 900 sat then you won't be making any profit now when it has reached 13.7k sat. Cry

darewaller

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

I would say its Pump and Dump technique and a very common tactic but only works in markets where the volume is low. Now days because the bitcoin market is so big and a lot of big names are also investing so I don't think one can play with the market like they might have done before. Yes you can sell when the market is high and buy when the market is low, that's common and normal trading because then the market is moving itself and you aren't manipulating it.

Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 12:47:58 PM

Pump and dump is the opposite. That is inflating the market abs selling at the top. Completely different. You need the power to pump it which is the hard bit.

Well, then maybe it can be termed as Dump and Pump, as you sell the coins you hold and then once you get the money from selling, you can then buy and hence pump the market. I don't think its much of a difference because either ways anyone manipulating the market is playing pump and dump.

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Quote from: hd49728 on March 01, 2021, 01:02:40 AM

Quote from: mk4 on February 28, 2021, 10:10:36 PM

Quote from: dansus021 on February 28, 2021, 09:41:04 PM

Yes

its happen like everyday, check it https://whale-alert.io/ or just simply on binance using 2 BTC for market ordering considering as whale

Especially when talking about highly liquid trading pairs like BTC/USDT, good luck moving the price with only 2 BTC though. It would take A LOT more than 2 BTC to move to have a significant effect. With that low of a capital, your only chance with potentially manipulating prices is with low-cap altcoins.

Manipulate price of bitcoin with 2 BTC. Insane if it can be used nowadays. Huh

Any attempt to manipulate the market of bitcoin requires to have big capital, long time of preparation and magnificent set of skills. To direct and distort the technical indicators, it takes half of a month at least or 3 months to manipulate the trend.

Manipulators must know which indicators they can use to direct the chart and with less costs.

Lastly, they have to combine skills they have and seed their news to media. It is not a game for children. Grin

Just before the recent drop there was talk of a whale moving a billion dollars worth of btc into an OTC account. That is probably enough to manipulate the market.

hd49728

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Quote from: Hydrogen on March 01, 2021, 09:34:06 AM

"Buying the dip" if the price rebounds.

Or "dead cat bounce" if the price doesn't rebound much at all.

The trouble with the strategy you're describing is once you've entered a sharply defined dump phase, prices usually don't rebound very far after confidence, faith and expectations are shattered by the sharp downtrend.

It normally takes time for market confidence to be restored after a strong dump. Then its much easier to generate a strong upward pump.

With the bull market, "dead cat bounce" can be striked out but you are right that in bear market, buying dips need to be apply very carefully. Most of dips cause dead cat bounces and if buyers don't take profit with short lasting bounces, they will end with loss and dead cats fall deeper and deeper.

In bear market, it will take months to see another dead cat bounces.

In this current bull market, dips are bought up strongly and healthy. They give opportunities to buy up the dips and enjoy bounces or hold to wait other higher records.

Hydrogen

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

"Buying the dip" if the price rebounds.

Or "dead cat bounce" if the price doesn't rebound much at all.

The trouble with the strategy you're describing is once you've entered a sharply defined dump phase, prices usually don't rebound very far after confidence, faith and expectations are shattered by the sharp downtrend.

It normally takes time for market confidence to be restored after a strong dump. Then its much easier to generate a strong upward pump.

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

Isn't this a buy low sell high tactic? I won't call it a pump and dump because there is no organization or group that triggers the increase in price in your given scenario. You stated that the increase in price appears naturally and no one is manipulating the trade either.

Obito

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Quote from: pooya87 on March 01, 2021, 03:55:14 AM

Your scenario works only in markets that are too small that one person with a relatively large amount of money can become the sole whale in that market and can perform such market manipulations. This is why the altcoin market is the breeding ground for pump and dump groups.
However this won't work in bitcoin market because of its bigger size. One whale can not perform such manipulations as you explained, even if multiple whales came together they still can't do it. All they can do is manipulate the market for smaller size in a smaller time frame. For example they could buy at $30k then when price reaches $40k manipulate the market and bring it back down to $38k but never to the previous bottom.
It's simply because of all the "other" whales and all the other traders in the market that keep buying bitcoin.

The reason that one whale can't perform this scheme on bitcoin market is because they don't have enough bitcoin to dump back to make a catastrophic wave but if in hypothetically one whale has what it takes to do that, I think that they will do it to make more money. Whales can even do a simple manipulation of dumping a considerable amount of bitcoin and shorting the prices. In conclusion, I have to disagree that it won't work on the bitcoin market, it's not it won't but can't because there isn't enough bitcoin for one whale to do it.

odolvlobo

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

Why would selling it cause the price to fall, but buying it would not cause the price to rise?

The name for this tactic is "wishful thinking".

By the way, this is not "pump and dump". In a pump and dump scheme, the operator buys the asset when it is low and then spreads false and misleading information to cause others to buy. The operator dumps the shares on the buyers as the price rises. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump Buying and selling by itself is not "pump and dump".

pooya87

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Your scenario works only in markets that are too small that one person with a relatively large amount of money can become the sole whale in that market and can perform such market manipulations. This is why the altcoin market is the breeding ground for pump and dump groups.
However this won't work in bitcoin market because of its bigger size. One whale can not perform such manipulations as you explained, even if multiple whales came together they still can't do it. All they can do is manipulate the market for smaller size in a smaller time frame. For example they could buy at $30k then when price reaches $40k manipulate the market and bring it back down to $38k but never to the previous bottom.
It's simply because of all the "other" whales and all the other traders in the market that keep buying bitcoin.

davis196

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

This is not a tactic,this what all the "bears" actually do on the market.Selling BTC and buying at a lower price later.This is the opposite of what the "bulls" are going-Buying low and selling high.
If you are talking about lots short term day trades,with minimum profit margins,then we are talking about "scalping".
Those aren't "whale tactics". Usually,all the traders can be "bulls" or "bears" at some point,not only the whales.

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Quote from: hd49728 on March 01, 2021, 01:02:40 AM

Quote from: mk4 on February 28, 2021, 10:10:36 PM

SNIP

not manipulating the market i mean i just saw the on binance app and

seeing this and there is whale picture on it

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Quote from: mk4 on February 28, 2021, 10:10:36 PM

Quote from: dansus021 on February 28, 2021, 09:41:04 PM

Yes

its happen like everyday, check it https://whale-alert.io/ or just simply on binance using 2 BTC for market ordering considering as whale

Especially when talking about highly liquid trading pairs like BTC/USDT, good luck moving the price with only 2 BTC though. It would take A LOT more than 2 BTC to move to have a significant effect. With that low of a capital, your only chance with potentially manipulating prices is with low-cap altcoins.

Manipulate price of bitcoin with 2 BTC. Insane if it can be used nowadays. Huh

Any attempt to manipulate the market of bitcoin requires to have big capital, long time of preparation and magnificent set of skills. To direct and distort the technical indicators, it takes half of a month at least or 3 months to manipulate the trend.

Manipulators must know which indicators they can use to direct the chart and with less costs.

Lastly, they have to combine skills they have and seed their news to media. It is not a game for children. Grin

mk4

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Quote from: dansus021 on February 28, 2021, 09:41:04 PM

Yes

its happen like everyday, check it https://whale-alert.io/ or just simply on binance using 2 BTC for market ordering considering as whale

Especially when talking about highly liquid trading pairs like BTC/USDT, good luck moving the price with only 2 BTC though. It would take A LOT more than 2 BTC to move to have a significant effect. With that low of a capital, your only chance with potentially manipulating prices is with low-cap altcoins.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

It is called Pump and dump, mate. It is as old as man, itself. Since time immemorial, even before cryptocurrencies came to the scene

Yes

its happen like everyday, check it https://whale-alert.io/ or just simply on binance using 2 BTC for market ordering considering as whale

Altcoinsintel

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Exchanges have algorithms that push the price way lower when someone tries to sell. Spoof orders disappear and hi frequency trading doesn't allow any such advantage to a whale. They can't make money in seconds as you may think. Whales may need months to execute a plan and even so it can always backfire. However with the help of exchanges usually everything goes smoothly as planned. Right?

thirdprize

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Quote from: qwk on February 28, 2021, 10:41:13 AM

Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

Yes, it's called "Pump'n'Dump" and the maths don't add up to it being a viable business model.
The "manipulator" bears the cost of moving the market alone, but others will take the profits as well, so he will only receive a certain fraction of the profit minus fees.
Or, in simpler words: if you do that, you'll lose money.

Pump and dump is the opposite. That is inflating the market abs selling at the top. Completely different. You need the power to pump it which is the hard bit.

aoluain

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yes its a tactic but you would want to have a good understanding of the markets
and be able to read the various charts and signals otherwise you could end up
buying back at a higher price than you sold at

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Quote from: qwk on February 28, 2021, 10:41:13 AM

Yes, it's called "Pump'n'Dump" and the maths don't add up to it being a viable business model.
The "manipulator" bears the cost of moving the market alone, but others will take the profits as well, so he will only receive a certain fraction of the profit minus fees.
Or, in simpler words: if you do that, you'll lose money.

Depends on how much money you have, what you pump, for how long, when you pump and most certain - is Elon Musk your good friend. But yea this it not that easy as it seams to be. Lots of people earned fortune and than lose fortune playing god and sheeps game on the market.

qwk

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Quote from: thirdprize on February 28, 2021, 10:38:04 AM

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

Yes, it's called "Pump'n'Dump" and the maths don't add up to it being a viable business model.
The "manipulator" bears the cost of moving the market alone, but others will take the profits as well, so he will only receive a certain fraction of the profit minus fees.
Or, in simpler words: if you do that, you'll lose money.

thirdprize

sr. member

Activity: 485

Merit: 274

If you brought low and it was now high, then you could start off selling high and keep selling lower to lower the price. People like a bargain would keep buying as it went down. As long as you don't go below your "low" then you know you could immediately buy it all back for a fraction of what you sold it for? Is there a name for this tactic?

Topic: whale tactics? (Read 819 times)