Author

Topic: whales are stupid (Read 4044 times)

legendary
Activity: 906
Merit: 1002
October 28, 2014, 08:14:57 PM
#55
But he was so lucky. What if he would be born in Africa?
Would his trust found helped him to get where he is now?
Would he have trust found at all?

I don't think the comparison is whether certain regions have more access to wealth than others. That's a given. The question is, do some people in some regions have an unfair advantage over others, or is wealth the product of some individuals working harder and smarter to obtain it.

If Bill Gates was born in Africa, he probably would have tried to get an education in some American or European university (there were lots of people from Nigeria and other places in the universities I attended), and the end result may have still been similar, though it would have been harder for him to reach it.
Well if Bill Gates's situation was exactly the same with the exception of where he lived (in africa vs in the US) then things would have turned out very differently. The trust fund would need to stay as without it, you cannot make an apple to apples comparison (although you could argue that the trust fund could be much smaller so it could finance a similar standard of living as his "real" trust fund was able to support).

I would say that he would likely not be in the same position as he is in now as he would almost certainly not have had access to the technology that was available in the US when he started Microsoft in africa, which would mean he could never have created windows/dos. I would say that the chances of him starting Microsoft would be even greater if his trust fund was the same size as "US" bill gates had because such a trust fund would be able to sustain a much better standard of living in africa and he would have no real incentive to work for a living and start any kind of a career
legendary
Activity: 4466
Merit: 3391
October 27, 2014, 05:53:40 PM
#54
But he was so lucky. What if he would be born in Africa?
Would his trust found helped him to get where he is now?
Would he have trust found at all?

The question is not valid. If he were born in Africa, he wouldn't be Bill Gates, he would be someone else. You are implying that a lottery was held and some lucky person was selected to be born as Bill Gates.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
October 27, 2014, 05:44:32 PM
#53
Probability that any given altcoin will ever amount to anything = 0.001%

Probability of success in selling them short all the time = 99.999%
member
Activity: 462
Merit: 10
October 27, 2014, 05:35:07 PM
#52
They are very pleasurable. You know who you are.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
October 26, 2014, 12:10:38 PM
#51
But he was so lucky. What if he would be born in Africa?
Would his trust found helped him to get where he is now?
Would he have trust found at all?

I don't think the comparison is whether certain regions have more access to wealth than others. That's a given. The question is, do some people in some regions have an unfair advantage over others, or is wealth the product of some individuals working harder and smarter to obtain it.

If Bill Gates was born in Africa, he probably would have tried to get an education in some American or European university (there were lots of people from Nigeria and other places in the universities I attended), and the end result may have still been similar, though it would have been harder for him to reach it.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Invest & Earn: https://cloudthink.io
October 26, 2014, 12:07:20 PM
#50
I'll conclude with the fact that money does not make you smart, and not having any doesn't make you stupid. It also doesn't take a genius to get rich, even the ethical way. The majority of rich people I know are NOT rich because they worked hard and earned it. At the end of the day, those rich people likely see me as one of the stupid ones, but I am OK with that.  Grin

This, most people that got rich come from early money distributions (just like rich bitcoin people). Once you inherit 5 millions, it's HARDER to lose them than to keep them.

If you are born in middle class, chances are you'll be stuck there, let alone being legit poor. A breakthrought through the class you are born at is nothing but luck. Working hard and saving = you may become a millionaire, but you'll get to enjoy it where, in the cementery? what a joke.

According to Forbes, 273 of the 400 richest people in the U.S. earned their way onto the list. A minority inherited their money.
This number is really misleading because many rich people will work hard, and invest their money in order to create additional money/wealth for themselves via their own business ventures. I would argue that a good portion of the 127 of the 400 richest people would be on the list of top 400 richest people regardless if they inherited their money or not.

Take Bill Gates for example, his family was very rich prior to him starting Microsoft, he was the beneficiary of a multimillion dollar trust fund. Today he is the country's 2nd richest person.

But he was so lucky. What if he would be born in Africa?
Would his trust found helped him to get where he is now?
Would he have trust found at all?
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
October 26, 2014, 11:21:55 AM
#49
From my experience and stuff I have an opinion on, people who understand money and business become rich, most coming from middle income, and not inheriting that money. Those who do not understand money and business (especially budgeting, investments, and other basic household financial skills), either never get rich due to mishandling their money and spending or borrowing too much, or if they do become rich, either through inheritance or winning the lottery, very quickly lose all those millions and end up in a worse debt than if they hadn't gotten that money (known as the Lottery Curse). If you want to be rich, or at least well off, Step 1 is learn some basic finance, like compound interest, investments, how to calculate debt and interest payments, and how to budget. This should be required teaching in schools, but is pretty much never taught, so people grow up living paycheck to paycheck, and 75% end up reaching retirement with less than $60k to their name.
member
Activity: 343
Merit: 11
Rangers.Protocol
October 23, 2014, 09:16:08 AM
#48
i do not think they are stupid, this is a free market and people will and have the right to decide based on individual interests. It's the rule of the game and what counts at the end is the holistic approach combined with a long-term analysis.
newbie
Activity: 13
Merit: 0
October 23, 2014, 08:32:13 AM
#47
No real whale would be in it for a quick trade. The quote about the ascii arms race peaking seems pot on. No new cheap coin.

Few years before quantum computing picks up the baton.

If I was whaley I'd monitor the ascii's extremely closely - once reach 10% below 'peak coin' - id begin subtly dumping for 2 years.

Then buy it all up before the next wave of tech is due.

But I is not a whale. I'm not even from Wales.
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1008
Delusional crypto obsessionist
October 23, 2014, 08:10:51 AM
#46
they are giving bitcoin a bad name. price will go down long term because of these disgraceful whales.
Whales are smart, therefor they are whale!
Make yourself a whale with these cheap prices and buy them all!
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
hm
October 23, 2014, 05:11:04 AM
#45
they are giving bitcoin a bad name. price will go down long term because of these disgraceful whales.

what's with the whales who buy large volumes of coins?
legendary
Activity: 1789
Merit: 2535
Goonies never say die.
October 23, 2014, 05:07:53 AM
#44
The Forbes article has no value to me, anyone can hand select 600 "strong candidates", narrow it down to 400, and be able to spin the percentages whichever direction they want. I realize there are a group of people who everyone expects on these lists, and they have no choice to put them on, but I fear there was bias amongst the "Forbes 400 Team" doing the article. I would also argue there are people who don't want to be in the public eye that are not on the list.

Aside from all of that, focusing on the "Top XXX" group of anything shouldn't prove a thing. Especially only 400 people, but I guess its entertaining to read.  Wink


http://www.forbes.com/sites/kerryadolan/2014/09/29/inside-the-2014-forbes-400-facts-and-figures-about-americas-wealthiest/
Quote
This is the 33rd year of the flagship Forbes 400.  Though we’ve been at it a long time, it’s still always a challenge. Our reporters dig deep. This year we started with a list of more than 600 individuals considered strong candidates and then got to work.

Quote
Of course, we don’t pretend to know what is listed on each billionaire’s private balance sheet, although some candidates did provide paperwork to that effect.

Quote
Some billionaires who preside over private companies were happy to share their financial figures, but others were less forthcoming. A few even threatened to sue. To value these businesses we coupled revenue or profit estimates with prevailing price-to-revenue or price-to-earnings ratios for similar public companies.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
October 22, 2014, 08:39:22 PM
#43
I'll conclude with the fact that money does not make you smart, and not having any doesn't make you stupid. It also doesn't take a genius to get rich, even the ethical way. The majority of rich people I know are NOT rich because they worked hard and earned it. At the end of the day, those rich people likely see me as one of the stupid ones, but I am OK with that.  Grin

This, most people that got rich come from early money distributions (just like rich bitcoin people). Once you inherit 5 millions, it's HARDER to lose them than to keep them.

If you are born in middle class, chances are you'll be stuck there, let alone being legit poor. A breakthrought through the class you are born at is nothing but luck. Working hard and saving = you may become a millionaire, but you'll get to enjoy it where, in the cementery? what a joke.

According to Forbes, 273 of the 400 richest people in the U.S. earned their way onto the list. A minority inherited their money.
This number is really misleading because many rich people will work hard, and invest their money in order to create additional money/wealth for themselves via their own business ventures. I would argue that a good portion of the 127 of the 400 richest people would be on the list of top 400 richest people regardless if they inherited their money or not.

Take Bill Gates for example, his family was very rich prior to him starting Microsoft, he was the beneficiary of a multimillion dollar trust fund. Today he is the country's 2nd richest person.
legendary
Activity: 1789
Merit: 2535
Goonies never say die.
October 22, 2014, 01:04:14 PM
#42
You wanted a free market, you got it. Free markets are not kind.  Grin

It's not the market, it's the people in it. A free market could be the greatest & kindest place on Earth if everyone on the planet were kind and had good morals and ethics.  Wink

How incredibly dumb is that logic? That's the same as saying, a communist system could be the greatest & kindest place on Earth if everyone on the planet were kind and had good morals and ethics.  Wink

See? everything can work IF everyone on the planet were kind and had good morals and ethics, IF.

It may sound the same but I think a communist system is an entirely different conversation..... your comparing a socioeconomic system with a financial market and I am not sure I can find the logic in that.
legendary
Activity: 4466
Merit: 3391
October 22, 2014, 10:45:55 AM
#41
I'll conclude with the fact that money does not make you smart, and not having any doesn't make you stupid. It also doesn't take a genius to get rich, even the ethical way. The majority of rich people I know are NOT rich because they worked hard and earned it. At the end of the day, those rich people likely see me as one of the stupid ones, but I am OK with that.  Grin

This, most people that got rich come from early money distributions (just like rich bitcoin people). Once you inherit 5 millions, it's HARDER to lose them than to keep them.

If you are born in middle class, chances are you'll be stuck there, let alone being legit poor. A breakthrought through the class you are born at is nothing but luck. Working hard and saving = you may become a millionaire, but you'll get to enjoy it where, in the cementery? what a joke.

According to Forbes, 273 of the 400 richest people in the U.S. earned their way onto the list. A minority inherited their money.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1252
October 22, 2014, 06:50:44 AM
#40
I'll conclude with the fact that money does not make you smart, and not having any doesn't make you stupid. It also doesn't take a genius to get rich, even the ethical way. The majority of rich people I know are NOT rich because they worked hard and earned it. At the end of the day, those rich people likely see me as one of the stupid ones, but I am OK with that.  Grin

This, most people that got rich come from early money distributions (just like rich bitcoin people). Once you inherit 5 millions, it's HARDER to lose them than to keep them.

If you are born in middle class, chances are you'll be stuck there, let alone being legit poor. A breakthrought through the class you are born at is nothing but luck. Working hard and saving = you may become a millionaire, but you'll get to enjoy it where, in the cementery? what a joke.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1252
October 22, 2014, 06:46:23 AM
#39
You wanted a free market, you got it. Free markets are not kind.  Grin

It's not the market, it's the people in it. A free market could be the greatest & kindest place on Earth if everyone on the planet were kind and had good morals and ethics.  Wink

How incredibly dumb is that logic? That's the same as saying, a communist system could be the greatest & kindest place on Earth if everyone on the planet were kind and had good morals and ethics.  Wink

See? everything can work IF everyone on the planet were kind and had good morals and ethics, IF.
legendary
Activity: 1789
Merit: 2535
Goonies never say die.
October 21, 2014, 12:38:23 PM
#38
You wanted a free market, you got it. Free markets are not kind.  Grin

It's not the market, it's the people in it. A free market could be the greatest & kindest place on Earth if everyone on the planet were kind and had good morals and ethics.  Wink
That's true. I was assuming people would act in ways that are profitable and competitive. But, as you say, these are choices people may make or not make.

I think it should be a little more detailed and not as much of a generalization. It sounds like your assuming people would act in ways that are profitable and competitive no matter what ethical or moral guidelines are broken?  

I had assumed...or hoped  Undecided ... that there were other ways to be profitable and competitive and that people would act without the need to demean themselves to a lower standard just because they have a small shred of anonymity. But, alas, bitcoin shows glimmers of both extremes, the good and the bad.

I realize there will be plenty of people who are just generally bad people but I feel like there are more of the good guys then the bad, and I hope that people in the bitcoin community do not decide the only real way to make a profit with bitcoins is to start a scam, defraud someone, or manipulate the market. I think this would be bad for bitcoin.

I'll conclude with the fact that money does not make you smart, and not having any doesn't make you stupid. It also doesn't take a genius to get rich, even the ethical way. The majority of rich people I know are NOT rich because they worked hard and earned it. At the end of the day, those rich people likely see me as one of the stupid ones, but I am OK with that.  Grin
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
October 21, 2014, 11:24:27 AM
#37
You wanted a free market, you got it. Free markets are not kind.  Grin

It's not the market, it's the people in it. A free market could be the greatest & kindest place on Earth if everyone on the planet were kind and had good morals and ethics.  Wink
That's true. I was assuming people would act in ways that are profitable and competitive. But, as you say, these are choices people may make or not make.
legendary
Activity: 1789
Merit: 2535
Goonies never say die.
October 21, 2014, 11:03:13 AM
#36
You wanted a free market, you got it. Free markets are not kind.  Grin

It's not the market, it's the people in it. A free market could be the greatest & kindest place on Earth if everyone on the planet were kind and had good morals and ethics.  Wink
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
October 21, 2014, 10:56:30 AM
#35
You wanted a free market, you got it. Free markets are not kind.  Grin
sr. member
Activity: 485
Merit: 274
October 21, 2014, 09:58:59 AM
#34
someone who is rich is not stupid
you may ask yourself why you are not a whale
This.
Without the poor, no riches.
There must be contrast. Otherwise life is dull.

Haiku Alert!!!
sr. member
Activity: 1439
Merit: 380
Bitcoin Casino Est. 2013
October 21, 2014, 09:24:56 AM
#33
Before we accused whale are stupid , do you know how much BTC mined everyday ?
and how many BTC dump everyday to the market ?
Miner need money to pay their daily bill.
This is not 100% fault from miner or whale.
full member
Activity: 169
Merit: 100
October 21, 2014, 09:22:07 AM
#32
they are giving bitcoin a bad name. price will go down long term because of these disgraceful whales.

And they are making big bucks so why are they stupid?

Exactly.

They see too many people trying to get on the get rich quick bandwagon and decided it is time to cash out to those bag holders.
sr. member
Activity: 273
Merit: 250
October 21, 2014, 09:15:44 AM
#31
they are giving bitcoin a bad name. price will go down long term because of these disgraceful whales.

And they are making big bucks so why are they stupid?
newbie
Activity: 18
Merit: 0
October 21, 2014, 08:17:02 AM
#30
i think its nice that whale dumps his coins. Price lowers for a while so other ppl can buy coins cheaper. Bitcoin wealth distribution improves. Less whales the better, less ppl who can fcuk with market at their will. It would be perfect if noone owned more than 1 % of all coins.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
October 21, 2014, 06:08:01 AM
#29
they are giving bitcoin a bad name. price will go down long term because of these disgraceful whales.

Its not right to call them stupid. Whales have the maximum amount of bitcoins, and you can't expect them to hold those massive amount of coins, when the price is going from 600$ to 275$ within a month. They need to protect their investments, and when the whole world panics, they will obviously not hold.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 256
October 21, 2014, 02:18:44 AM
#28
what people forget is that the biggest whale of all is us together as a whole Smiley
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
THE GAME OF CHANCE. CHANGED.
August 25, 2014, 12:15:07 PM
#27
When whales dump, it means at least all these BTC are going in hands of other non whale people. It only takes these people to be intelligent and not panic sell at minimum fear.

The strategy of whales dumping is to get other people to sell as well.... and then pick up btcs at a lower price.

it's better for them to sell at other whales , but they don't know who are the buyers

And don't forget whale eat up all the small fish in one move be it up or down.
legendary
Activity: 4466
Merit: 3391
August 25, 2014, 11:26:04 AM
#26
When whales dump, it means at least all these BTC are going in hands of other non whale people. It only takes these people to be intelligent and not panic sell at minimum fear.

The strategy of whales dumping is to get other people to sell as well.... and then pick up btcs at a lower price.

A smart whale would never do that because it doesn't work. When the whale dumps, other people buy the dumped btc cheap. Then the price returns to normal and the whale has less than he started with.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
PumpersPicks.com
August 25, 2014, 11:09:36 AM
#25
So, the implied assumption is there are no "whales" in the futures markets? forex, securities etc? Theres whales in every market, Bitcoin is no exception.  If it wasn't for these whales you speak of, bitcoin would have never rallied like it did last year.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 1022
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
August 25, 2014, 09:39:46 AM
#24
When whales dump, it means at least all these BTC are going in hands of other non whale people. It only takes these people to be intelligent and not panic sell at minimum fear.

The strategy of whales dumping is to get other people to sell as well.... and then pick up btcs at a lower price.

it's better for them to sell at other whales , but they don't know who are the buyers
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1064
August 24, 2014, 07:28:16 PM
#23
I wouldn't say Whales are stupid they just know what they are doing and are smart enough to do it and make themselves rich. Any one of us could be a whale we just need to know the means and ways to be just as rich as those who are.

True. A stupid whale won't be a whale for long.  Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
August 24, 2014, 06:47:29 PM
#22
I wouldn't say Whales are stupid they just know what they are doing and are smart enough to do it and make themselves rich. Any one of us could be a whale we just need to know the means and ways to be just as rich as those who are.
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
August 24, 2014, 05:03:33 PM
#21
I wish i was a whale  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1064
August 24, 2014, 11:41:43 AM
#20
When whales dump, it means at least all these BTC are going in hands of other non whale people. It only takes these people to be intelligent and not panic sell at minimum fear.

The strategy of whales dumping is to get other people to sell as well.... and then pick up btcs at a lower price.
member
Activity: 68
Merit: 10
August 24, 2014, 11:02:03 AM
#19
In some years from now, the trading volumes will be so high that a whale alone won't change anything.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
August 24, 2014, 10:39:12 AM
#18
When whales dump, it means at least all these BTC are going in hands of other non whale people. It only takes these people to be intelligent and not panic sell at minimum fear.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 1022
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
August 24, 2014, 10:09:25 AM
#17
if they pump it, it make the wealth spread to the world, bitcoin is a form of money spreading, money redistribution, this is thanks to the whales
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
August 24, 2014, 08:04:11 AM
#16
they are giving bitcoin a bad name. price will go down long term because of these disgraceful whales.

I think whales pumped the coin that it made bitcoin famouse. so it is even
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 0
August 24, 2014, 08:03:59 AM
#15
someone who is rich is not stupid
you may ask yourself why you are not a whale
This.
Without the poor, no riches.
There must be contrast. Otherwise life is dull.

Most people are rich due luck. Have fun being stuck on a dead end where you can't get out of poverty if that ever happens to you.
member
Activity: 75
Merit: 10
Fearless, except for those who are fearless
August 24, 2014, 07:25:57 AM
#14
someone who is rich is not stupid
you may ask yourself why you are not a whale
This.
Without the poor, no riches.
There must be contrast. Otherwise life is dull.
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 0
August 24, 2014, 07:06:12 AM
#13
Whales Gonna Whale. They are lossing money, a lot o money if they sell now.
legendary
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1352
Cashback 15%
August 24, 2014, 06:36:29 AM
#12
They aren't stupid. They are just taking advantage of the price and the small time holders to sell off when they feel that their holdings are crashing down in value. Usually, whales are the reason why there are ups and downs in the crypto markets. Cheesy
full member
Activity: 139
Merit: 100
bitcoin hates walls
August 24, 2014, 01:44:56 AM
#11
If a whale can make some money by moving the market with his large holdings, what is wrong with it?

By knocking it down too much.

They should keep it fluctuating at a level. Even if they are manipulating the market, they should keep it at one price range. It was good when they kept it at $800 or $600 but now they keep sinking it slowly. People will lose trust in BTC. The Chinese will leave. The Chinese are driving the price up and the stupid western whales drive it down. At least keep it at $500!!

The problem is that they don't talk to each other, don't coordinate with each other, and don't even trust each other. If one of them sells, the others have no way of knowing if he's trying to crash the market, or just buying another Lamborghini.

i agree they probably don't trust each other, but by means of blockchain analysys it should be pretty easy for them to contact each other, they just need to find big wallets and contact them with their own big wallet. The protocol allows for this kind of messaging and once they know they are in the same boat (yacht in that case) it could become logic to not fight to each other, in that case trust should matter less than one may think
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
August 24, 2014, 01:37:43 AM
#10
If a whale can make some money by moving the market with his large holdings, what is wrong with it?

By knocking it down too much.

They should keep it fluctuating at a level. Even if they are manipulating the market, they should keep it at one price range. It was good when they kept it at $800 or $600 but now they keep sinking it slowly. People will lose trust in BTC. The Chinese will leave. The Chinese are driving the price up and the stupid western whales drive it down. At least keep it at $500!!

The problem is that they don't talk to each other, don't coordinate with each other, and don't even trust each other. If one of them sells, the others have no way of knowing if he's trying to crash the market, or just buying another Lamborghini.
I would doubt that they would ever attempt to collude with each-other like that. Doing so would be very risky not only from a profit prospective but also from a potentially having to go to jail for market manipulation perspective.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
August 24, 2014, 12:42:24 AM
#9
If a whale can make some money by moving the market with his large holdings, what is wrong with it?

By knocking it down too much.

They should keep it fluctuating at a level. Even if they are manipulating the market, they should keep it at one price range. It was good when they kept it at $800 or $600 but now they keep sinking it slowly. People will lose trust in BTC. The Chinese will leave. The Chinese are driving the price up and the stupid western whales drive it down. At least keep it at $500!!

The problem is that they don't talk to each other, don't coordinate with each other, and don't even trust each other. If one of them sells, the others have no way of knowing if he's trying to crash the market, or just buying another Lamborghini.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
DeFixy.com - The future of Decentralization
August 23, 2014, 11:09:25 PM
#8
someone who is rich is not stupid
you may ask yourself why you are not a whale

I don't know who you are, but I like your words Tongue
Maybe he isn't whale because he is stupid or something distracting his brain.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
August 23, 2014, 11:03:08 PM
#7
If a whale can make some money by moving the market with his large holdings, what is wrong with it?

By knocking it down too much.

They should keep it fluctuating at a level. Even if they are manipulating the market, they should keep it at one price range. It was good when they kept it at $800 or $600 but now they keep sinking it slowly. People will lose trust in BTC. The Chinese will leave. The Chinese are driving the price up and the stupid western whales drive it down. At least keep it at $500!!
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 503
August 23, 2014, 10:31:20 PM
#6
whales move the market up and down
I don't know what is the problem
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1064
August 23, 2014, 08:44:53 PM
#5
If a whale can make some money by moving the market with his large holdings, what is wrong with it?
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1000
August 23, 2014, 08:44:09 PM
#4
someone who is rich is not stupid
you may ask yourself why you are not a whale
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
August 23, 2014, 08:17:04 PM
#3
Whales are people with large holdings in BTC..

Frankly the whales are not stupid. Anyone with half a brain knows BTC can not continue on its current path given it won't be worth anything to mine in the future if the ASIC arms race continues. :/
sr. member
Activity: 319
Merit: 250
August 23, 2014, 08:15:47 PM
#2
Is a whale someone who bets a lot with a high percentage?
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
August 23, 2014, 07:56:20 PM
#1
they are giving bitcoin a bad name. price will go down long term because of these disgraceful whales.
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