Topic: Whales Every time change the market?? (Read 2378 times)

Funny, nowadays, bitcoin hardly fall for any bad news again, there are several news that I have read in the past and I think will fall bitcoin, but it never did, and I looked at it from my own angle also, when I heard such news, why did I not react and take steps to take my money out? I didn’t because I know that we have very foolish people in the market that likes to create FUD news for bitcoin because they hate it and we have whales that want to manipulate people into dumping their coin so that they can accumulate this, and I think virtually all the present investors knows this and they will never allow themselves to be used or manipulated by all the whales any longer, which is why we don’t see much responses again.

Whales are given too big influence compared to those they really have. If they really can such power that would mean they controll the market. And Bitcoin is decentralized and independent, right?
So, to my opinion they can influence market in some very limited scope.

nobody controls the market but sometime, a dangerous sell off can affect the market. also market movement can trigger a bull or bear market. thats why you need to follow the market thrends, news and TAs to know when to sell off and when to buy.
some time, it is not the whales.

If the market moves happen due to the illiquidity in the order book, whales can be the reason for the price movement. Single $1MLN order is not the same as the 50 of the $20K orders, first-order causes the quick flash effect on the chart while second order is beaten by the other side of the order book. Panic selling is the best example, the price dump is followed by the sum of sell orders which created by the fellow traders as a market reaction to the orders of the market whale.

Yes they can do anything pumping and becoming a dumper. they are able to manipulate prices.
this is the fact they can even manipulate trading volumes in the market.

One thing we can be sure of is that we cannot predict what a good price to sell. We need to learn about signals based on charts and news.
If bad news is released, there is no doubt that bitcoin will fall sharply. or the buyer is unable to create a buying zone, then the seller is sure to sell off, ... and there are many examples.
Therefore, you should have a reasonable profit to take profits after a period of hold. That's the best way to not fall into the shark trap.

Have you ever considered that not every activities or Bitcoin price changes is been caused the whales?
Funny enough, most Bitcoin prices can be an influence of fellow traders like him too.
Market moves to the direction of buying and selling.

We mostly blame whales for market change but we also thankful how they make hypes and then be profitable. They are also a market player, investors just like us and blaming them because of our losses isn't a good idea.
Whales did their best also in order to make money and somewhat so-called market manipulation but it doesn't mean that they are the one controlling the entire market, only they are capable of changing market trends.

All right. To be a successful trader now, you need not only to predict the trend, you need to understand the whales will lead the trend and when, and most importantly why.
Perhaps this is the most difficult of all that I have ever learned about trading.

Thanks for your explanation . Is there any sorce to know the news at earlier.

right, whales influence on the market is temporary, they play the psychology of traders to follow it, the more traders that are affected, the whales can have an extraordinary effect. I think we should focus on personal analysis and don't interfere with their scenario, we should be able to take advantage of their scenario, which is to sell it when they pump, because usually they dump soon

Whales play a massive role in the manipulation of crypto prices no doubt. Until regulation comes into effect, whales can do almost anything they want to pump and dump whatever they want. All we small fish can do is to ride the waves. Buy low and sell high.

Do we know who they are so we can make a deal with them? But we're not and surely we can't find them in here.
Instead, of finding them and spending a lot of time, it is better to focus on our own strategies. Whales did their job also, they have that advantage to manipulate the market price and for us, to not be affected so much we will also be versatile in every market change.

I can only give you a hint. In order to understand which way the market will go, or rather, which way the whales will lead, you need to have access to whale deals,
the volumes that are now pouring into the market creating a pump or dump.
With the naked eye, such things are usually visible only post factum.

Probably you are right because we all know how the market price is been determined by the whales but even at that, that shouldn't deter anyone from be able to trade to make profits rather than hold. Those who hold are liable to look unto the whales but as a trader you take the profit bit by bit.

If me i will always use pattern buy at rumour, sell at news. Usually when bitcoin pumped, it followed by big news and before that, people usually know the rumour first. And then on bitcoin pumping phase will start to buy but not wait for news come, after i think it is enough, i sell my coins and take profit. Because usually when news come, people start to sell their coins, if we late, we will trapped when price already dumped.

The right answer is never wait for them to have the big plays in the market because if you are part of the waiting game chances are Bitcoin already had dropped and you will just think and think about it until you see that your portfolio isn't green anymore. Never play with the big guys if you aren't willing to risk it all, there is really no point on waiting on a higher number if you are already happy with the gain you will receive. When you have loads of cash already then it's the perfect time to see how the whales will do a profit taking and see Bitcoin go down again which will be a perfect entry point for you. You can always ride with the whales but you can never match on when and where they will sell.

The real question is, how can we stop them from affecting the market so much. We all know bitcoin is decentralized and we all know bitcoin can't be controlled by a government, so we all know bitcoin can move however it wants and we can't do anything about it.

So, whales take advantage of this fact and they move the market however they want without worrying about anything in the world since they can't be "caught" here in bitcoin for something illegal, in other stuff like stocks speculation and manipulation is often illegal (unless you bribe some politicians of course) but here its all legal so you can do any movement you want. We need to find the balance between whales doing freely whatever they want but still keep it a decentralized ecosystem for us as well.

Is it only one whale that we have in the market that they will know the price direction of bitcoin, dot forget that we dint have a single whale in the market, there are whales from different locations with different order mind set, as one whale is thinking of putting money into the market, another whale may actually be thinking of how to withdraw large amount of money, and whales also depends on FOMO also, the reason why they pump money is for the value to shoot up a little bit with the hope that many people will see it as bull run and start investing in it for their own investment to appreciate, but they are also with doubts too, as they don’t know if their strategy will work or not, so it is not every whales that can determine the price of a crypto, except all those smaller cryptos.

I do discuss with people sometimes that without these whales, maybe the price of bitcoin may not have even had that record of $19800 that made majority of people super reach because it was when whales pumped money into the market that it created FOMO for the value to reach that high because if we are to be sincere to our self, it is still because many people wants to multiply their money that made them really put in money into the capitalization of bitcoin.

There is not much people that are really concerned about utility that much except some few first that uses it to kind of evade tax, but whales have much more money which we have also benefited from, and the best is just to try and learn when they enter the market and when they plan to exit like some of the forum mates has already suggested.

No, not really the approach to trade or hodling. We need to know the direction of market or price. This is called positional trade or trading with the trend. If you want to trend, is better to try and understand where the trend is, by that, you make your profit with ease and very fast. If we have the altitude of just entering the market without knowing where market direction is, we are likely to be losing or staying longer than expected.

As yourself, do you enter a bus, flight or whatever moving gadgets without knowing its direction 
Or, do you dive into an ocean without knowing how to swim Ir where the waves are...

Just buy and hold, only whales know where the price will go.

I think so, we don't have much capital to influence the market, so why don't you follow how whales think? I think when you can go with the flow of whales when to buy and sell, then you will not get a loss, instead a large profit will follow you. don't go against the flow of what the whales are doing, because they have a big influence on the market. almost all crypto markets especially altcoin are very easy to influence by whales so in my opinion you should know their movements.

Well, I think that whales are like Market Makers in the Stock Market, according to some books like Jesse Livermore's, the news is simply distractions, Market Makers have already planned their movements months and even years in advance.

The market must be analyzed from a very partial point of view, in my case I analyze the market in the long term until it reaches a very short term (4h) and using the Wyckoff methodology, all you have to do is try to understand how Whales operate, and although it is not created, whales also have losses, very rarely, but if they do, the market is full of Bears and Bulls, they want to show their strength at all times.

To determine what you should do, it is simple, to study the market in all its phases, since it started in 2009 until today, you will find parameters, stages, some are repeated, that way you will have more arguments to draw your own conclusions and thus disagree with some predictions that are made.

Isn't it this so called whales manipulation started in 2017? Media took it in the next levels, but so far we have seen proof of big entities in the market trying to manipulate the price. People complained about them, but when this so called whales moves the market positively, we totally forget about it and everyone is very excited to see our portfolio growing. With that said, I think this entities can also bring positive movement in the price as much as they can also cause a sudden dip. It's really us to us average joe's to understand and how to play the market game with them.

Well spoken. People think of whales as a group of wealthy individuals trying to constantly manipulate the price, while whales are actually trading against each other just as much as we trade against traders with a similar trading balance.

This market lacks liquidity big time. If a whale wants to buy or sell, the price organically moves a few percent to have their trades fill. In the process they may trigger long/short squeezes exaggerating the move even further.

No word about manipulation is seen when we go up because people like it and see their portfolio value increase. Only when the price goes down people start talking about manipulation, and that just because they are losing.

You are right and this is what im doing even the patterns isnt the same anytime but somehow you do have basis that it might happen again. Whales might have negative image into others but i cant deny that they are indeed having benefits if you do know how to utilize price movements made by them.
The only question here is that we wont know on when these whales are tending to move.You can only detect it when you are on mid way.

when the whales appear to be free in moving prices, they also have strategies that sometimes benefit us, the market sometimes needs them especially if the trend is sideways.

Although our capital is not as much as they have, there is no harm in understanding how they think and we just need to adjust, because trends sometimes emerge with patterns that are similar to things that happened before.

They are part of the community, what they did is just their strategies as well which is no reason why we put blame with them in times that price moves downward. Cause in my part, I'm so thankful of whales existence whoever who they are, it gives chances for us make a good price to buy and helping to make a profit as well. Those people who complain are those persons who never understand the risk in crypto and the way it works.

But if you keep getting angry with the whales, The best way to know what the whales are intending to do is to monitor their orders. This is possible by checking on the market for either pending order for sale or buy, you can then make your own decision.

You won't say them or believe as what you said if you have an ability and knowledge to trade especially the technical analyst strategy. You can ask on this forum how many people here who have made a lot profit through technical analyst in every trade they pass I guess it is a loot. The whales act only happen once a time, not all price movement based on them.

It is not good to believe negative thinking that you have to gain money through trading. If you believe that cryptocurrency is one place to gain money then I suggest to forget that think but if you don't I suggest to you to find another place to store your money. You can focus to learn more about how to trade on this place and don't store your money first seems like it will harm you for sure.

If anyone has the ability to predict the market exactly then they are not called humans, rather than complicating things if you make and have a simple plan anyone can succeed in trading, first and foremost get rid of the idea about making a fortune in a short period of time, invest when the market drops and have a calculation on how much profit you are expecting and how long you are planning to hold and then make a call about selling, never sell anything in a panic mode when the market drops, it will recover eventually.

  No, don't think so negatively. The whales still work on charts and psychology of traders, then they make decisions to manipulate prices.
Therefore, technical analysis is essential and it is also knowledge that helps us lose less.
Believe me, TA will definitely help you a lot in stressful transactions.

It is supply and demand that determine the price of bitcoin and understand on how the demand and supply works will help you do what the whales are doing and makes profits along with them. Remember what will really make you successfully as a trader is not either you are whale or not but the knowledge and experience on when to buy when the experts and whales are buying and when to sell when they are selling. We always sift responsible because we thought some one is having big advantage over us because of his capital but we have equal advantage.

It's not new whales are always there are manipulating the price of the market if you see whales pumping a coin don't hesitate to join them because it will lead you to a trap the price of the coin which you buy is higher will suddenly going back to down which is the lower price you buy that's the thing happening to me. Always be patience all the time don't be much greedy when whales controlling the market and also don't be stressed out.

That is how the market is right now. The market has been controlled by the whales and we can't do anything about it. Don't stressed yourself in trading especially if whales are controlling the market.

In my observation, the whales in the exchanges are only pumping those low volumed coins so the best thing to do is to trade with the coins with a high daily volume. How can you sell your Bitcoin at a correct time?? Impossible because you can't predict the future especially in Bitcoin. There is no such thing as correct time in crypto. If you got a profit already then you can say it as a correct time already.

I understand what you feel when the market goes against you. This happens most of the times with most of us and there is no running away from it.
You should learn to make strategies of your own which can make profits despite of this manipulation of market.
Tip: Don't go for the crowd or don't follow anybody. Make your own targets and buy/sell according to your plan. You will definitely see the results.

Very often, people simply exaggerate the whale’s market effect on the price of Bitcoin. A bit more than 30 largest crypto whales control about 7% of the total cryptocurrencies supply, and when you consider the lost BTC, this percentage will drop to 5-4%.
Only several whales are very active, and when they act, they are more likely to support the price of Bitcoin than to let it go down.

Whales control the market but is not all the time that they do that . They are like coming once in a while and when they invest and pump the market then they leave. Any other fluctuation of the market price is caused by the people's rate of demand and not the whales, there are times when the market demand is lower than the supply and there are also times that the market demand is high, that's the time you will see the market price increasing heavily.

You're bit right about what you have said though, because the market price of Bitcoin is quite unpredictable. But you still have to learn how to do a market analysis, it can be very helpful at times. There are times you will be able to get close prediction of something that is about to happen.

So you still need to learn it. And it's not just that, you also need to be reading the news at all times and being current. And whenever you come across some important news you need to do proper research to know whether they are saying the truth or not. There are some news that are able to cause a panic and there are also some news that can cause people to start buying and when they start buying the market starts to increase.

You should also follow analysis online, most of them are really helpful, especially those that are coming from experts.

Whales is always a whale and I believe that there is a possibility to change the market because they have a lot of money to play with it. But make it as your time for buying, just get a perfect analysis of when the whale may buy and you will join with them if you do, surely you will earn profit.

The problem is that nobody can show at least 2 or 5 whales, if these whales can manipulate the market, then how can it be very difficult for people to show them by manipulating the price? How is it possible that until today it is not known who these whales are?


well many people blame the supposed whales whenever they lose money

Whales are always and is already there whether we like it or not, they may have an impact on the market price but I don't think have a control over the bitcoins price because no one is controlling or can control bitcoin, it's in its nature so don't always think that it is the whales is the only reason we have this price right because there are some other factors that can affect the price, I would suggest for you to study the market trend and don't use whales as the reason of you being unsuccessful.

Name: Sithumperera052
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Date Registered: August 20, 2019, 11:40:22 AM
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should be an urgent problem for you to create a bitcointalk account and post


And where is this proof that whales are on the market? I see many people say that it is the whales that drive the market, when the price drops too many people say it is the fault of the whales; Interestingly, when the price goes up so much I don't hear people say it's the fault of the whales.


Take for example the current price:



What do you think? Is it the right time to buy or is it the right time to sell and abandon the boat?

Now look at what will happen in the next few years:

Bakkt Announces Sept. 23 Launch of Futures and Custody Platform in US

https://www.coingecko.com/pt/explain/bitcoin_halving

so you already know this is a good time to buy bitcoin

Then make it a strategy to follow, learn their activities and learn to follow the news to trade, that is what a smart trader does, because as you are complaining right now, there is little to which complaint can do because none of those people you are complaining to has the power to change how the market operates single handedly or stop the whales from behaving the way they do.

The only way that we can control the whales is to always double cross them and double crossing the whales is not so easy, it requires thorough monitoring of their activities through those exchanges where they operate through, then from there, you can always how to trade along with them and still be successful. If we continue to look at the problem, we might not be able to trade fine, but we have to always look at the solution to the problem.

if you want to trade on this situation you need to become active everytime in order to obtain more information about the movement of the market. Especially if you want to obtain quick profits. because it's actually normal that the growth rate always made changes time on time due the volatility. So you must adjust your time and put more efforts on it to don't miss all the opportunity . Because market will not make an adjustment for you and it's all up to you  . better think about it mate. 

You can't sell bitcoin at the right time, bitcoin is an anti-inflation currency which means no matter how much it goes down, eventually it will go up. That is why I think it is definitely a wrong time to sell bitcoin right now, maybe it will still go down a bit but I see a great potential of it in the near future, specially now that halving is getting closer I feel like price will definitely easily double if not triple in the next 1 year.

If you want to make sure when you can make money then check out the futures, that is where the big whale movements happen, when you see a lot of shorts bought then you know someone is about to sell a lot of coins because they are manipulating that way, check the short future contracts and if there is a big buy then sell your coins.

Things like that are mostly done by traders, they are not satisfied with 10% profit, especially for those who have small capital, of course, want to get double the results, without them knowing it will bring disaster, when whales feel that they are already full enough, and turn the market over, then what happens is regret

As long as there's a high volume traded i think even a whale that have huge balance in the bag will not win against the people power to move the market as they wish , a free market like cryptocurrency is way more difficult complex unlike stocks market which the potential for some people/groups to 'control' the market is actually very high .
And yes in the short term it might affected significantly to change the market direction but not for the long term especially in the last few years where crypto market grow quickly. The bottom line is that whales could be beaten  . So be it.

Yes, but also no. There's obviously factors you cannot control in trading (such as what whales might be doing), but because you really can't control those factors, don't worry too much about them. As for the erratic price movements in Bitcoin, that's just how it goes. If you're using leveraged trading, always set stops and use TA to the best you can along with your risk management strategy to minimize potential losses. Yesterday's dump may can partially be attributed to an ascending wedge breaking (bearish formation).

That's not a problem, lot of people also facing that. They are on dillema what's the right time to sell their coin, is it now? If i don't sell now, maybe the price will down or will it be higher?
Just look at now, bitcoin price got dumped from $10.9k to close $10k now, that's because some whales taking the profit.  Those who planning to sell at $10.5k above must be feel regret to not sell their coin

Good timing when buying and selling off your bitcoin is the key. But how can you know the right time entering and exiting the market? Technical analysis. It isn't hard to learn that if you are really determined and really wanted to push success in trading. And hey, we are talking about whales here. So, whenever they enter the crypto market, technical analysis and a good strategy will become useless.
 
 Furthermore, stop loss will help us to lessen the huge deficit when whales messed up the trades so do not worry. As long as you incorporate stop loss every time you trade, much better.

I would disagree with the assumption that whales will eventually sell most of their coins, they are too smart to lose the opportunity to make money. It is true that at some point coins change hands (wallets), but whales are not just selling, they are also buying at the bottom of every dump, so those coins again finding their way to whales wallets plus extra profit they made in such trades.

It's visible now that for months price is holding close to $10 000, and each time it goes slowly upwards, but then there are sharp falls like as it was the last with $600 down. It's a game that goes on constantly, learn the rules or don't play this game.

Profits that you are looking for, perhaps are those with insane amounts of return from the initial bankroll you have had, which to me is no problem but sometimes unachievable due to people being greedy. A 10% profit from your initial bankroll is already a huge gain in my books, and I see no reason why would anyone not take those. You don't need to time the markets and get the maximum profit possible from your bankroll, you just have to take profits whenever you feel like it and wait for the next run and that's it.

Once again whales are given much bigger influence than they really have on the market. And it's kind of funny to blame the whales if you can't make the profit how you would like to. That hasn't got anything to do with them, it's only up to you how skilled you are to use every situation on the market and get the most out of it.
Big investors might have certain control but they are big players in their world and that doesn't influence much smaller investors.

Whales are one of those things that will work out it self in the future. The whales will eventually sell most of their coins and these coins will be evenly distributed between a lot more people and that takes the control away from those whales. Just remember that with any commodity or stocks or shares, you will always have someone or a group of people that would control the majority of that investment option and they will always try to use that to leverage power to manipulate it. 

There are no way to determine in what direction these whales are going, other than being one of them, so just accept it and concentrate on buying low and selling high.  

you can start from analyzing charts by learning technical analysis
then you can try make your own decision on what is the right price to buy and sell
when whales move the price, don't go against them but follow the trends
buy at the lowest possible price and sell at your target price, don't be too greedy
within the last few months bitcoin price was up and down quite often
there were many opportunities to make profit by buying at ~$10k and selling at ~$11.5k

Yes it is what he needs.

Because it would be hard for him to understand what mostly are telling him without the proper experience.

We can sell the bitcoin when bitcoin price increase so high, and I think you can see it later when the market is moving. But sometimes, we will never know when the price can increase because I see that sometimes, there is a pump that is happening in the market. Perhaps, you can place the order sell at the price you want, make it higher than the price now so when the price increase, your order sell is filled.

The whales don't always change the price because the bitcoin market is too big, and that will need a big balance to move the price. But when most of the whales come, the price can increase so high, and that will stay at the current price. You need to learn about analyzing the chart on the market, so you know if something happens with the market, and you can decide what you need to do.

As long as you can be careful to buy and sell bitcoin, I think there is nothing to be worry, and I am sure that you can make a profit.

seeing some level of manipulation in the market doesn't mean "control". you can manipulate price of anything, even in the biggest markets out there but as long as the market has a bit of a decent volume and is not that small, it can not be controlled. bitcoin market has not been small for at least 6 years.

if you are making mistakes and not making money (losing?) while in bitcoin market maybe the problem is with your decision making. you should know that trading is not easy and you can't just jump in without any prior experience and expect to be successful!

Leave the whales alone. They are not our problem. And besides, we can do nothing about them being whales. They are super rich, we are simpletons. Perhaps what we should do is to try to ride them. It is hard but it could be done. I mean, if you are diligent enough to read reliable news, seriously study charting, and monitor fundamentals, it is not impossible to make money despite these market whales playing with the prices. 

And if you fail in all of these, at least do what many others have failed: only sell with a profit. There is no correct time literally. The only correct time is when you sell with a profit, and the only wrong selling time is when you sell at a loss.

Well in every sort of trading, stocks, crypto, you'll always deal with whales and their abrupt moves on the market.

I'd personally just ignore whales and what they do, it seems useless to worry about something you can't control, and don't forget, for every whale who is looking to dump their coins, there is someone who wants to buy them, and most dumps rarely scar a market forever, and everything returns to normal after some time usually.

Sell when you are happy with the profit you've made, or to cut your losses. Don't think about what a whale would do, just don't be greedy or stupid and you'll be fine.

It is not your problem only, others also have the same situation as you.


Whales are always there, so you need to learn everything about them. But you don't need to worry as long as you know how to take advantages of their activities.


No need to be greedy. If you already meet profits at a certain number, then you are better to sell. Bitcoin price must go up, so just wait for the upcoming pump or bull.

He needs to experience it on his own. The OP should try a very small amount at first to get a grasp of what's going on in the market. He should follow his own instincts when it comes to trading but only when he has the sufficient knowledge on how to do it.

You need to go the basics of trading and understand each situation that the market deals with.

Only you can determine the right time of selling, people would not call that hey this is the right time to sell. AFAIK, if you follow the media, they'll shout for that but would you follow? I'd tell you not. So, learn and experience how you're going to build yourself including the strategies in trading.

You just need to be patient for waiting for the right time to sell, i know it's so frustrating to wait but it's worth it. Whales may change the price in no time, i think it's better if you just go with the flow or if you have a better analysis try it out, it might work, who knows. It might be hard to sell if the market is in a stable price but if you know how to play or take advantage of the volatility then you might earn your desired profit.

This Maxim - He who pays the Piper calls the tune- is apt in the whale scenario and control of the market. Whether we like (believe) it or not, big money controls the market. Besides all that, it's advisable to learn the necessary skills for any business one wants to get into before venturing into it. OP may want to learn trading skill set to survive in the business.

Stop believing that and maybe you can make profit. Don't stress it out so much.

If you have the right analysis for yourself then try it. Take the risk.
Those whales will not change just for you who is just holding a tiny portion of a huge sea of bitcoin out there.

Having courage to try your own analysis from where you monitored the price fluctuation every minute or every hour might be the key into making profit.
What is good with it? It will be more satisfying since it is yours and didn't just copy from anyone.

Guys i have a serious  problem. Most of the time whales are controlling  the market with big profits. But how we can sell  the bitcoin at correct  time? Someone can say me please learn  aboth the trading.But the my idea is trading is just some patterns of market changes. Not rules. The market just can be  changed by whales and news anytime.